For those who believe in national health services.

[Urethra Franklin]

*Any tourist who happens to fall ill is allowed full treatment if necessery.
.

But they have to pay.
Sorry, but I worked in the NHS for years before I left the UK, and this "free treatment for foreign tourists" whinge is quite simply a myth. As is the myth that "all the Asians" bring entire families over for free treatment.

Hospitals in areas with large numbers of transient people passing through (like London for example) have dedicated overseas patient officers. Smaller ones have somebody in the finance department to deal with charging overseas patients. Tourists have the right to free treatment IF they come from a country with a reciprocal health care agreement for British tourists in their own country (for example other EU countries,) and are carrying the correct documentation (in the case of the EU, it used to be the form E111; now replaced with a card). The fact that in some hospitals the finance department never gets alerted to the fact that a non-UK resident is in one of their beds is a matter of educating staff at the front line. I distinctly remember a very sad case of a family who were faced with an enormous bill, their relative having visited from overseas with no travel insurance and falling very ill indeed. Believe me, there was no heart. Of course she was given first line treatment, but the bill was persued with vigour and she was of course advised to then consult a specialist in her own country. The moral of the story is NEVER travel anywhere in the world without adequate travel insurance.

 

[Urethra Franklin]

Having lived in the UK my whole life, I've got no experience of private health care, but why is it that so many Americans see it as some kind of comie, pinko weirdo suggestion? .

Because dear heart they live in the ultimate capitalistic society, where human lives are just another commoditiy, health care is not viewed as a civic right as it is in Europe, and profit comes before the health and welfare of your fellow citizens. What else do you expect from one of the most un-altruistic societies in the world? (And ironic that it also happens to be one of the most religious - what does that tell you?)

 

[Urethra Franklin]

Yet your doctors opt for private healthcare.......

....

Very large numbers don't, because they remember why they took the hippocratic oath.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

Very large numbers don't, because they remember why they took the hippocratic oath.

And very large numbers do... Because they know that the service is going to be better.

Just another chance to spew your ills.... LOL

Because dear heart they live in the ultimate capitalistic society, where human lives are just another commoditiy, health care is not viewed as a civic right as it is in Europe, and profit comes before the health and welfare of your fellow citizens. What else do you expect from one of the most un-altruistic societies in the world? (And ironic that it also happens to be one of the most religious - what does that tell you?)

Enola ... Do yourself a favor and try not to get to close to her. THe hate she harbors could spread and infect you. NOt to mention her ability to be misguided or outright wrong on so many subjects dealing with a country she seems to know nothing about.

We are an ungiving people that donates billions upon billions of aid, resources, assitance and debt forgiveness every year. The fact is your statement was asinine and untrue. If your going to make a statement they should be at least so sembelence of truth.

Concerning UHC again I think you are pretty much wrong. I Am not for UHC because of some corporate profit. I am against it because I think it is going to cost me more while limiting my options, quality and treatment. Along with this I believe it will also hurt the healthcare, pharmacuticle, and R&D companies. THis ultimately hurting everyone.

this being said from a woman in a country that refuse to ever stand up and be counted for anything. As far as a global leader or figure she lives in a country that is niether. A country that does whats only good for itself because risking anything for someone else is a bit to much work. It's easy to stand behind the big guy and yell things. Specially knowing you will never actually be called on to for any real purpose.

 

[Urethra Franklin]

And very large numbers do... Because they know that the service is going to be better.

Just another chance to spew your ills.... LOL



Enola ... Do yourself a favor and try not to get to close to her. THe hate she harbors could spread and infect you. NOt to mention her ability to be misguided or outright wrong on so many subjects dealing with a country she seems to know nothing about.

We are an ungiving people that donates billions upon billions of aid, resources, assitance and debt forgiveness every year. The fact is your statement was asinine and untrue. If your going to make a statement they should be at least so sembelence of truth.

Concerning UHC again I think you are pretty much wrong. I Am not for UHC because of some corporate profit. I am against it because I think it is going to cost me more while limiting my options, quality and treatment. Along with this I believe it will also hurt the healthcare, pharmacuticle, and R&D companies. THis ultimately hurting everyone.

this being said from a woman in a country that refuse to ever stand up and be counted for anything. As far as a global leader or figure she lives in a country that is niether. A country that does whats only good for itself because risking anything for someone else is a bit to much work. It's easy to stand behind the big guy and yell things. Specially knowing you will never actually be called on to for any real purpose.

Personal insults again. A sure sign that you know you've lost the argument. You never could stay on topic could you? You succeeded in getting the proud moments with your kids thread closed, and now you seem determined to derail this thread too. That the mods tolerate such a troll. If you wish to discuss French peace-keeping efforts around the world versus United Statesian imperialist invasion and hegemony, start an approriate thread, but please don't highjack this one with your blinkered prejudice and hatred.

Back on topic, not that you can ever stay on topic very long, but please try abit harder this time honeybun. You've already been quoted OECD figures and you can't seem to grasp them. If they're a tad too difficult for you, (don't worry flower, such complex issues can't always be reduced to Fox News level simplicity) try other sources. A look at any WHO document will verify that the USA spends a higher percantage of its GDP on healthcare than most, for worse health outcomes. You're being conned by big business, and yet you think you're "free"? Poor deluded United Statesian. Now I hate to point out which country, with its socialized medicine, consistantly tops WHO league tables for performance and efficiency, but it begins with an F and ends with a rance. I'm sure you can work that one out.

Do stay on topic sweet pea. If you really want to abuse me verbally do it in a PM and we can take this to another level big boy.

:2wave:

 

[Calm2Chaos]

Personal insults again. A sure sign that you know you've lost the argument. You never could stay on topic could you? You succeeded in getting the proud moments with your kids thread closed, and now you seem determined to derail this thread too. That the mods tolerate such a troll. If you wish to discuss French peace-keeping efforts around the world versus United Statesian imperialist invasion and hegemony, start an approriate thread, but please don't highjack this one with your blinkered prejudice and hatred.

Ummm were did I insult you? Please... show me were I insulted you? I don't agree with you and I think your a joke, but I don't think I personally insulted you at all. You went and boilled three paragrahs into a few sentences and thats all you could come up with ....LOL figures...Imagine that. Your still talking about these "United Statesian". They don't exisit, i keep telling you this. We should go and ask some Americans what they think. And please don't talk about trolls. YOu inject almost every post with your anti-American Venom... ANd you do it for one reason. You calling me a troll is the pot calling the kettle black

Back on topic, not that you can ever stay on topic very long, but please try abit harder this time honeybun. You've already been quoted OECD figures and you can't seem to grasp them. If they're a tad too difficult for you, (don't worry flower, such complex issues can't always be reduced to Fox News level simplicity) try other sources. A look at any WHO document will verify that the USA spends a higher percantage of its GDP on healthcare than most, for worse health outcomes. You're being conned by big business, and yet you think you're "free"? Poor deluded United Statesian. Now I hate to point out which country, with its socialized medicine, consistantly tops WHO league tables for performance and efficiency, but it begins with an F and ends with a rance. I'm sure you can work that one out.

Your highly unwaranted condescending attitude is again your atempt at elitism. AGain however it fails miserably as one would expect.....

And you don't seem to realize, which doesn't surprise me actually. THat your using numbers for countries that
A: Are having difficulties or NHC as it is, is slowly failing in some opinion
B: Countries that are not even close to our population
C: Countries that are not as industrialized
D: Countries that have very few global monitary responsibilities
E: Countries who's economies are floundering due to "Strains" on the system
Etc ect etc....
I have asked a number of times for examples about NHC that is going to keep my takxes at or below 32%-33%. Yet what I see is in the high 30's mid 40's

As for this f------rance I am very proud for them . They have no real global demands on the economy. NObody really looks to them for much of anything so then can spend freely. Except for the 10% unemployment, no consumer spending, no economic growth. Companies pay the highest payroll taxes in the 30 nations in the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development — 28 per cent of the average salary. That compares with 9 per cent in Britain and 7 per cent in the US, says the Paris-based OECD. IT sounds like f-----rance is dragging the EU down to me.

Do stay on topic sweet pea. If you really want to abuse me verbally do it in a PM and we can take this to another level big boy.

:2wave:

You don't want to go to another level with me......... Trust me

Not to mention I like you just the way you are, it makes it easier.....

 

[Urethra Franklin]

Ummm were did I insult you? Please... show me were I insulted you?.....

Look at the rational reasons you use to warn Enola not to get "close" to me, which in any case would be his decision to make. He's a big boy, he can get "close" to who he likes.
And the guy who doesn't insult me then follows immediately with:

I think your a joke

You still haven't learned the difference between "your" and "you're" which I normally wouldn't comment on, except that this comes from the guy who criticises my English and quotes English grammar websites at me to consult. Hmmm.

"United Statesian". They don't exisit, i keep telling you this. We should go and ask some Americans what they think.

Yes, let's ask some Brazilians and Argentinians and Panamanians and Chileans just what they think.

. YOu inject almost every post with your anti-American Venom... .

I criticize. You obviously can't take it. Either you're intellectually insecure, or you don't have an argument to begin with.

You calling me a troll is the pot calling the kettle black.

It's you that can't stay on topic and lays into me rather than answering the points raised in a debate.

And you don't seem to realize, which doesn't surprise me actually. THat your using numbers for countries that
A: Are having difficulties or NHC as it is, is slowly failing in some opinion
B: Countries that are not even close to our population
C: Countries that are not as industrialized
D: Countries that have very few global monitary responsibilities
E: Countries who's economies are floundering due to "Strains" on the system
Etc ect etc.....

The United States in on paper, the richest nation on earth. Your health outcomes should be far better than they are. What brings you down is a system that is too inequitable and open to abuse by big business, hence you are ripped off with the most expensive health care in the world for worse outcomes than many other nations.

I have asked a number of times for examples about NHC that is going to keep my takxes at or below 32%-33%. Yet what I see is in the high 30's mid 40's.....

And you see that because they're reasonable levels of taxation in societies which provide good standards of universal health care and education, good subsidised public transport, decent pensions and unemployment benefits. Of course cons always want more tax cuts, but that's just sheer greed.

As for this f------rance I am very proud for them . They have no real global demands on the economy......

Dear heart you obviously know nothing about the Départements d'Outre Mer and the Territoires d'Outre Mer, nor the peace keeping missions in places like the Côte d'Ivoire, but then they don't make news since France didn't invade and illegally occupy these places. That's a United Statesian trick.

10% unemployment
......

9.2% and consistantly falling

, no consumer spending,......

And look how fat and greedy consumer spending's made your McKids

no economic growth.,......

2% growth

Companies pay the highest payroll taxes in the 30 nations in the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development — 28 per cent of the average salary. That compares with 9 per cent in Britain and 7 per cent in the US, says the Paris-based OECD. IT sounds like f-----rance is dragging the EU down to me..,......

It is right and fitting that companies getting rich off the labour of their workers pay social charges. Of course you don't understand that, in the land of silicone breasted rich bitches living a stonesthrow away from the poor woman working two jobs and still barely able to feed her kids (health coverage? Dream on). On paper we are not as economically "competent" but transfer those figures into what everyday people's lives are like and you'll see that economics isn't about people's real lives. High growth rates and good economic indicators don't mean people live well. I would rather be poor in Europe than in the US. And even being rich in the US doesn't look like that much McFun.

You don't want to go to another level with me......... Trust me

You're spineless. No courage. You're the type that drools over glamour magazines but can't cope with real women. I eat guys like you for breakfast.

Where are the real men of the forum? Come back Contrarion. Now there was a REAL man.

 

[alphamale]

Come up with one that won't cost me more then 33% of my taxable income and we can talk

Watch out when liberals call for "change" - it always means one of the following:

- Higher taxes
- Bigger government
- Racial discrimination
- Abortion
- Religious suppression
- Free speech suppression
- Gun confiscation
- PC

 

[bandaidwoman]

Well if you look at this data you can see that the UK only spend half of that USA is spending in % of GDP. And even less then it is in USD PPP per capita.

http://dx.doi.org/10.1787/530538806724

So it's no wonder if the healthcare is not at the same level.

But if you look at the quality data you can see that countries with universal healthcare in many cases are rougly as good or even better even if they spend less money as the USA. Both then it comes to general numbers like life exptenace and infant mortility rate. And also then it comse to resources:

http://www.oecd.org/document/16/0,2340,en_2825_495642_2085200_1_1_1_1,00.html

I'd like to interject regarding the health disparity between the two countries. It exists, it is real, wether it is due to to one having nationalized health care and the lack of it in the other is still up for grabs.




But here is why I think we are seeing the disparity:


1) Obesity. Although the study adjusted for current levels of obesity in both countries, Americans entered the obesity epidemic far ahead of the English. In fact, the prevalence of obesity in England is just now reaching the U.S. rates of 15 years ago. The fact that more Americans have been obese for a longer amount of time may explain their poorer health.

However,the Brits are catching up!

2) Stress. The American lifestyle is more stressful than the English, both at home and work. Although we benefit from our “winner take all” approach to life in terms of better standard of living, I think stress contributes to overall health decline.

3) Demographically we are very different from most relatively homogenous societies. (different value systems, health concerns, financial constraints etc.)

We do seem to have poorer health across a variety of disease categories, but I don't believe there is one smoking gun (ie: lack of national health care.)

As someone who worked at Dartmouth Hitchcock Medical center 3 hours from the border of Canada and saw the disasters coming across the border to seek treatment, I can confirm there are disadvantages to the over taxed national health care in Canada (not commenting on Britain).

At the same time, I see the disasters here incurred by the uninsured who run the cost up for everyone else, the over utilization of high tech technology ( ventilator support and pacemaker for a 98 year old bedridden in a nursing home. etc.)

As a general rule, I think nationalized health care takes better care of chronic diseases ( because they can easily get the preventative care) but we take better care of the more exotic , acute medical problems (if you have a good insurance that is.:smile: )

For instance, if you suffer a heart attack you have a much higher chance of survival if treated in the US vs Canada, but people with diabetes in Canada suffer less long term complications etc.


While I favor free market solutions, the problem arises when the young healthy person looks for plan. He/she will not buy as extensive coverage - and this will be a rational economic decision. However, the impact of that decision will disadvantage the older, sicker patient.

But then, if national competition at least makes inferior insurance coverage more affordable, it’s a step in the right direction. Combine the two, and those who want (or need) decent comprehensive coverage can get it, those who want bare bones coverage can get it, and those insurance companies that want to price themselves in the middle will have to provide a set of benefits which justifies their price point.

At the same time insurance company's primary goal is to make money, not to improve health care. They respond to share holders.

If Congress were to pass a bill which takes all the problems into consideration, then the insurance market would likely become less profitable. Were that to happen, many insurers would look to other types of insurance to sell rather than health insurance.

I don't know what the answer is but it starts with acknowledging we have a problem.

 

[alphamale]

Just read a newspaper article about dentists leaving the UK government system in droves for private practice, since the government is trying to load them up will impossible numbers of patients. I think this is kind of a "death spiral" situation, because the more that leave, the more the rest will want to leave. Also the reimbursement system works to not save teeth, because eg it's simpler to just extract a tooth than do a root canal. The waiting lists are so long, people are in terrible shape by the time they get an appointment. Also how some people are resorting to do-it-yourself dentistry, because they can't afford the private ones and can't wait for the public ones.

Also in the Prime Minister's Questions in parliament, saw Blair bragging that in one electoral district, the number of people waiting at least six months for an operation had been cut from 12,000 to 3,000. SIX MONTHS! Who in America would want to wait six months??!!

 

[Urethra Franklin]

Just read a newspaper article about dentists leaving the UK government system in droves for private practice, since the government is trying to load them up will impossible numbers of patients. I think this is kind of a "death spiral" situation, because the more that leave, the more the rest will want to leave. Also the reimbursement system works to not save teeth, because eg it's simpler to just extract a tooth than do a root canal. The waiting lists are so long, people are in terrible shape by the time they get an appointment. Also how some people are resorting to do-it-yourself dentistry, because they can't afford the private ones and can't wait for the public ones.

Also in the Prime Minister's Questions in parliament, saw Blair bragging that in one electoral district, the number of people waiting at least six months for an operation had been cut from 12,000 to 3,000. SIX MONTHS! Who in America would want to wait six months??!!

The UK system is not a typical example for many reasons. It has its specific problems, not least because of the damage of market style reforms commenced by Thatcher, and now imitated by Blair, despite the fact that he was opposed to them in Thatcher's time. He has however, sold out, dumped solcialism and now courts big business to feather his own nest. Market forces damage a health care system, as the UK demonstrates, since health is not a commodity to be bought and sold but a humanitarian, community issue. Waiting lists are an inevitable consequence of underfunding - the HNS was starved of state funds by Thatcher in order to finance her vote winning tax cuts, and no government since has correctly funded the British health service. The British people themselves selfishly voted for tax cuts after tax cuts - they now have the lowest level of taxation in the EU, but the result is that public services are now skeleton services. I can assure you that when I grew up in the UK, NHS dentistry was the norm, and being correctly funded, few dentists did private practice. They are doing so now because Blair has made it impossible to survive otherwise - his backdoor privatisation: force them out so we'll have no NHS dentistry left. In other systems, which have remained truly socialized such as in France for example, waiting lists don't exist, and we enjoy a public health service that consitently tops WHO league tables. Other similar European examples exist. Of course we pay higher taxes, but that is the price you pay for a civilised society.

The question is, do we want a caring, civilized society based on solidarity, where the sick and the disabled are catered for out of collective responsbility, or do we want a selfish "I'm alright Jack" society where the already rich pay little taxes, and the poor sick are left to depend on an ineffective, patch them up and send them on their way charity service. The Britain I knew was the former, but is being trnsformed into the latter. The United States is the epitomy of the latter. Many European societies have still hung on to the former, and if the forces of globalisation forces them to change, that will be an enormous humanitarian loss to caring societies. The triumph of profit over solidarity, of commerce over community. A vile thought. Look at the wealth around in this world. We have no excuse in developed, wealthy countries not be delivering universal health care to all. It's a question of structure, and capitalism just doesn't deliver.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

Look at the rational reasons you use to warn Enola not to get "close" to me, which in any case would be his decision to make. He's a big boy, he can get "close" to who he likes.
And the guy who doesn't insult me then follows immediately with:

I do think you're a joke.....

But the truth is thats not an insult it's an opinion.

You still haven't learned the difference between "your" and "you're" which I normally wouldn't comment on, except that this comes from the guy who criticises my English and quotes English grammar websites at me to consult. Hmmm.

I know the difference but typing not being my strong point I tend to take short cuts or not double check what I have written. The websites were in response to what you did ... Please don't try and rewrite history .

Yes, let's ask some Brazilians and Argentinians and Panamanians and Chileans just what they think.

Works for me... Lets ask them. At least they exsist, unlike United Statesians....LOL

I criticize. You obviously can't take it. Either you're intellectually insecure, or you don't have an argument to begin with.

Cry me river. I have no problem taking it obviously. Since your posts are pretty standard and consistent. It's not all to difficult to "take" your posts. Having as arguement is fine, you just never have a realistic answer. Specialy if that means an answer without an insult or smear wrapped in it. Your argument is to attack the US. Wow what an original argument you have there, you should be proud

It's you that can't stay on topic and lays into me rather than answering the points raised in a debate.

Ughhh... the mental image there just made my eyes bleed

The United States in on paper, the richest nation on earth. Your health outcomes should be far better than they are. What brings you down is a system that is too inequitable and open to abuse by big business, hence you are ripped off with the most expensive health care in the world for worse outcomes than many other nations.

Yet you get taxed more for your UHC and there are lists of problems with UHC. I Pay for my healthcare and have very if any problems with it. The overall cost or effect of UHC on my taxable income is going to be higher taxes. YOU are taxed more then I presently pay for private healthcare. I have still yet to be told exactly how this is better?

And you see that because they're reasonable levels of taxation in societies which provide good standards of universal health care and education, good subsidised public transport, decent pensions and unemployment benefits. Of course cons always want more tax cuts, but that's just sheer greed.

AGAIN.... It's going to cost me more in taxable income. WHat exactly about this should I find a good thing

Dear heart you obviously know nothing about the Départements d'Outre Mer and the Territoires d'Outre Mer, nor the peace keeping missions in places like the Côte d'Ivoire, but then they don't make news since France didn't invade and illegally occupy these places. That's a United Statesian trick.

Peace keeping missions.....LOL

OK OK... there out there doing a lot for the world ...LOL

Let's get past the fantasy and get back on topic...

9.2% and consistantly falling

1993 11.3
1994 11.9
1995 11.3
1996 11.8
1997 11.7
1998 11.2
1999 10.5
2000 9.1
2001 8.4
2002 9.0
2003 9.6
2004 9.8

So no, not falling constinatly. But nice try at rewriting history or economic. They have been hovering between 9% - 12% since 1984 and thats simply atrocious

And look how fat and greedy consumer spending's made your McKids

As opposed to how lazy and ununspired it made your frogs?

2% growth

Actually:
1.6% (2005 est.)
Stop Rounding off to make things look better.

It is right and fitting that companies getting rich off the labour of their workers pay social charges.

God know we wouldn't want companies to make money without helping out the lazy and unmotivated.

Of course you don't understand that, in the land of silicone breasted rich bitches living a stonesthrow away from the poor woman working two jobs and still barely able to feed her kids (health coverage? Dream on).

Your image of America is funny. NOT to mention a pathetic stereotypical response to a woman that's probably sitting at home with her cats...LOL

On paper we are not as economically "competent" but transfer those figures into what everyday people's lives are like and you'll see that economics isn't about people's real lives.

Work for what you want. Stop having people give it to you. How pathetic must it make someone feel to know that someone else is taking care of there needs instead of them going out and doing it themselves

High growth rates and good economic indicators don't mean people live well. I would rather be poor in Europe than in the US. And even being rich in the US doesn't look like that much McFun.

I would rather you stay in poor europe also to tell you the truth. The difference between the two though is simple. I can be poor in Europe and have others take care of me. I will survive but I will never be more then I started at. In the US I can be poor... And I can work hard and I can apply myself and I can live the American dream. I have all the opportunities to not be poor but to work my way into a financial setting were I will never want again. The opportunity is there, this country is founded on it and it's is realized everyday by people.

Secondly.... Why should have to pay for your lazy ***. Hence your problem. Why strive to be better to attain more. Why try at all for that matter. If I want to sit around and do nothing I am still being taken care of by those that are actually doing the work.

You're spineless. No courage. You're the type that drools over glamour magazines but can't cope with real women. I eat guys like you for breakfast.

You sit at home with your cats.. If your lucky maybe some drunk will throw you a mercy %$&*%#. I wouldn't allow you to shake my hand let alone eat me.

Where are the real men of the forum? Come back Contrarion. Now there was a REAL man.

Don't ask.... there off looking for real women probably, thats why you can't find them. :2razz:

 

[Urethra Franklin]

I know the difference but typing not being my strong point I tend to take short cuts or not double check what I have written. The websites were in response to what you did ... Please don't try and rewrite history .

Ha ha! It's convincing people that's not your strong point. I think it's clear for all to see that you didn't know the difference until it was pointed out to you. You can stop digging now.

Cry me river. I have no problem taking it obviously. Since your posts are pretty standard and consistent. It's not all to difficult to "take" your posts. Having as arguement is fine, you just never have a realistic answer. Specialy if that means an answer without an insult or smear wrapped in it. Your argument is to attack the US. Wow what an original argument you have there, you should be proud.

You have every problem taking it. I attack neither the US nor its people. I attack the US political machine and its political and cultural hegemony. Many an intelligent United Statesian has taken up the challenge and given me a good argument on here. Your efforts fall far short of that.

Yet you get taxed more for your UHC and there are lists of problems with UHC. I Pay for my healthcare and have very if any problems with it. The overall cost or effect of UHC on my taxable income is going to be higher taxes. YOU are taxed more then I presently pay for private healthcare. I have still yet to be told exactly how this is better?.

No dear heart. Look at the stats. We are taxed less for our health care than you pay for it. We are taxed more than you overall because in return we have state healthcare, education, social services, public transport etc. etc. Do keep up.

Peace keeping missions.....LOL

OK OK... there out there doing a lot for the world ...LOL

Let's get past the fantasy and get back on topic....

Compare French action in the Côte d'Ivoire to US action in Iraq. Fabtasy? No. You've just probably never heard of what's happening in many African states because it's not on Fox News. You're only interested in blacks if they're winning you olympic medals.

So no, not falling constinatly. But nice try at rewriting history or economic. They have been hovering between 9% - 12% since 1984 and thats simply atrocious....

A fall from the 12% region to the 9% region is to be applauded, given the contraints of capitalist society which needs and promotes unemployment to keep people on their toes. Why do you think you have unemployment in the world's richest economy? Wake up and smell the coffee.

As opposed to how lazy and ununspired it made your frogs?....

France has very high productivity rates. I don't say so - the likes of the OECD say so.
Your racist name calling demonstrates your level of intelligence.

Your image of America is funny. NOT to mention a pathetic stereotypical response to a woman that's probably sitting at home with her cats...LOL

....

That may be the lady in your life, but I don't sit at home, I work, and much as I like cats, I don't have any.

Work for what you want.
....

Without being exploited.
And back on topic (which you're very good at straying from) without having to fear getting sick because you can't afford it, or being beholden to an unfair employer because your health insurance depends upon it.

I would rather you stay in poor europe also to tell you the truth. :

I'm comfortably off in Europe thank you. But if I were to become poor tomorrow, I would rather be here with social protection than in your country with very little, and no health coverage.

I have all the opportunities to not be poor but to work my way into a financial setting were I will never want again. The opportunity is there, this country is founded on it and it's is realized everyday by people.:

You may, but many United Statesians don't. They're disadvantaged from the start for many reasons. Your system needs the underclass hence it keeps them that way.

Why strive to be better to attain more. Why try at all for that matter. If I want to sit around and do nothing I am still being taken care of by those that are actually doing the work. .:

You think we don't have controls on people having to prove they're looking for work? Your system may be an easy one to fool. Don't judge others by it.

You sit at home with your cats..

What cats?
You stay on topic or don't bother.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

Ha ha! It's convincing people that's not your strong point. I think it's clear for all to see that you didn't know the difference until it was pointed out to you. You can stop digging now.

No need to dig. If every typo I don't check means I don't know the definition that your right there’s a problem. Of course that means I don't know how to spell other words because I shorten them. I was unaware that we were having a grammar contest. I will be sure to be checking everyone of your posts for now on for grammatical errors and syntax. By the way, horrible sentence structure in the beginning of the paragraph. If you can’t use the English language correctly please refrain from saying anything at all.

You have every problem taking it. I attack neither the US nor its people. I attack the US political machine and its political and cultural hegemony. Many an intelligent United Statesian has taken up the challenge and given me a good argument on here. Your efforts fall far short of that.

Your posts are full of comments of disdain and contempt for the US. You talk about points yet you make none? It's hard to give you a good argument when you bring so little to the table. Statesian is not a word. You might want to go and visit a few English tutoring websites again.

No dear heart. Look at the stats. We are taxed less for our health care than you pay for it. We are taxed more than you overall because in return we have state healthcare, education, social services, public transport etc. etc. Do keep up.

I was unaware that we had no Public Transportation, social services, public education or state sponsored healthcare. And all this time I thought we had those things. And yet I still pay only 30 percent in taxes, and less then a thousand dollars a year for healthcare. Do give up

Compare French action in the Côte d'Ivoire to US action in Iraq. Fabtasy? No. You've just probably never heard of what's happening in many African states because it's not on Fox News. You're only interested in blacks if they're winning you olympic medals.

First please learn to spell the word fantasy correctly. Olympic should be capitalized by the way. Again work on these things, it will make you a better person. As for the French, you keep tooting their horn. The rest of the globe is going to continue using them, as a well-deserved punch line. By the way we like our blacks for dancing and comedians also...

A fall from the 12% region to the 9% region is to be applauded, given the contraints of capitalist society which needs and promotes unemployment to keep people on their toes. Why do you think you have unemployment in the world's richest economy? Wake up and smell the coffee.

Yet a country with 5 times the population has figured out how to not show 12 - 9 % unemployment. There a problem with the system, you just don't want to admit it or do anything about it. Wake up and smell the reality

Fran ce has very high productivity rates. I don't say so - the likes of the OECD say so.
Your racist name calling demonstrates your level of intelligence.

Kind of like your veiled insults, or not so veilled insults? Yuu questioning my intelligence I find humorous. BUt what the hell, I can always use a good chuckle

That may be the lady in your life, but I don't sit at home, I work, and much as I like cats, I don't have any.

Well good for you.

Without being exploited.
And back on topic (which you're very good at straying from) without having to fear getting sick because you can't afford it, or being beholden to an unfair employer because your health insurance depends upon it.

Your view of this country gets more and more laughable. The evil employer, keeping the poor workingman down, it’s a joke. If you don't like your situation then change jobs. There’s work out there, it's not hard to find a decent job with benefits.

I'm comfortably off in Europe thank you. But if I were to become poor tomorrow, I would rather be here with social protection than in your country with very little, and no health coverage.

I keep forgetting Medicare, Medicade various other social programs for people don't exists in the US. Again .... Laughable

You may, but many United Statesians don't. They're disadvantaged from the start for many reasons. Your system needs the underclass hence it keeps them that way.

You know nothing about this country so please don't attempt to tell me what many Americans are or are not. Because the truth is you don't have a clue. This from a country that pioneered a class system...

You think we don't have controls on people having to prove they're looking for work? Your system may be an easy one to fool. Don't judge others by it.

Keep talking with your 12 - 9% unemployment.

What cats?
You stay on topic or don't bother.

Your still funny.....

But your really starting to bore me, please come with something a little better.

 

[Urethra Franklin]

No need to dig. If every typo I don't check means I don't know the definition that your right there’s a problem. Of course that means I don't know how to spell other words because I shorten them. I was unaware that we were having a grammar contest. I will be sure to be checking everyone of your posts for now on for grammatical errors and syntax. By the way, horrible sentence structure in the beginning of the paragraph. If you can’t use the English language correctly please refrain from saying anything at all.
.

Off topic (again) however:
You were the one who strated criticizing other's English, quoting grammar websites at me, and then making mistakes yourself. I don't claim to have perfect English - it isn't my native tongue, but you young man have tripped yourself up fair and square.
Get over it.

Your posts are full of comments of disdain and contempt for the US. You talk about points yet you make none? It's hard to give you a good argument when you bring so little to the table. Statesian is not a word. You might want to go and visit a few English tutoring websites again..

Off topic (again)
See above.

I was unaware that we had no Public Transportation, social services, public education or state sponsored healthcare. And all this time I thought we had those things. And yet I still pay only 30 percent in taxes, and less then a thousand dollars a year for healthcare. Do give up..

Largely off topic (again) however:
So scant is your public transport that in many areas of the US a car is essential. Many of you don't have health coverage, and if your parents haven't saved to send you to university because they couldn't afford it, forget it.

First please learn to spell the word fantasy correctly. Olympic should be capitalized by the way...

Off topic (again).
I never quoted any spelling websites at you grammar boy (or rather no grammar boy).

Again work on these things, it will make you a better person. As for the French, you keep tooting their horn. The rest of the globe is going to continue using them, as a well-deserved punch line. ...

Off topic (again) however:
Your analysis doesn't ring true, not least in the light of figures published today showing that foreign investment in France continues to grow. And who is the largest foreign investor in France?
Why, it's the USA!

By the way we like our blacks for dancing and comedians also......

Off topic (again) however:
You forgot picking cottton. Bet you're still cursing that damn civil war eh?

Yet a country with 5 times the population has figured out how to not show 12 - 9 % unemployment. ......

Off topic (again) however:
You have less unemployment because much of the employment you have is insecure untenured employment on minimum wage. You still have unemployment, because you are slaves to capitalist exploitation.

Kind of like your veiled insults, or not so veilled insults? Yuu questioning my intelligence I find humorous. BUt what the hell, I can always use a good chuckle......

Off topic (again) however:
You used an openly racist term. That demonstrates ignorance.

Your view of this country gets more and more laughable. The evil employer, keeping the poor workingman down, ......

Off topic (again) however:
Yes, that's basically how capitalism works. You're learning.

There’s work out there, it's not hard to find a decent job with benefits.......

Off topic (again) however:
Yet you have unemployment. And poverty. And unisured people. And yet in your capitalit terms you're the richest nation in the world?

I keep forgetting Medicare, Medicade various other social programs for people don't exists in the US. Again .... Laughable.......

At least you're on topic!
Patch them up and send them on their way. They need REAL healthcare.

But your really starting to bore me, please come with something a little better.

You bore us all the minute you log on:roll:

 

[BWG]

The United States has the second worst newborn mortality rate in the developed world, according to a new report.

Only Latvia, with six deaths per 1,000 live births, has a higher death rate for newborns than the United States, which is tied near the bottom of industrialized nations with Hungary, Malta, Poland and Slovakia with five deaths per 1,000 births.

"The United States has more neonatologists and neonatal intensive care beds per person than Australia, Canada and the United Kingdom, but its newborn rate is higher than any of those countries," said the annual State of the World's Mothers report.

Tinker said some nations ranked high in part because they offer free health services for pregnant women and babies, while the United States suffers from disparities in access to health care.

Health



The U. S. may be richest country in the world, but to the people that can't afford or have no reasonable access to quality health care, it might as well be a third world country.

Maybe if we didn't have an economy where both parents have to work just to pay the bills. Or maybe if an expectant mom had 'family leave' where she didn't have to work right up until delivery day. Maybe...if we had NHC.

I guess we could always show them our GDP or our low unemployment rates. That should make them feel much better.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

Off topic (again) however:
You were the one who strated criticizing other's English, quoting grammar websites at me, and then making mistakes yourself. I don't claim to have perfect English - it isn't my native tongue, but you young man have tripped yourself up fair and square.
Get over it.

You're (better?) an elitist, or wannabe anyway. You damm sure should be perfect. You expect so much out of others, but so little out of yourself.

Off topic (again)
See above.

I'm responding to you so I can't be off topic.
If you don't want to respond then dont
It won't hurt anyones feelings if you respond to anything a little less

Largely off topic (again) however:
So scant is your public transport that in many areas of the US a car is essential. Many of you don't have health coverage, and if your parents haven't saved to send you to university because they couldn't afford it, forget it.

Again you know NOTHING concerning this country. Yet you attempt to talk as if you do. If your ignorant about America then do some research. BUt don't continue to post misinformation, innacurate information. Your comparing a country with an area of 547,030 sq km, to one of 9,631,420 + sq km---- 29,519 km of railway to 227,736 km . EVERYTIME you try and bring up these comparisons it make you look even more foolish.

*Public transportation is a $41 billion industry that employs more than 351,000 people.
*Since 1995, transit use has increased by 25.1 percent -- faster than highway travel.
*Americans took more than 9.7 BILLION public transportation trips in 2005.
*Every $1 billion invested by the federal government in public transportation infrastructure creates and maintains approximately 47,500 jobs.



WOW...THats pretty Scant. Your ignorance is showing

(Again) I'm responding to you so I can't be off topic.
If you don't want to respond then dont
It won't hurt anyones feelings if you respond to anything a little less

Off topic (again) however:
Your analysis doesn't ring true, not least in the light of figures published today showing that foreign investment in France continues to grow. And who is the largest foreign investor in France?
Why, it's the USA!

We invest all over the world for christ sake. Because we invest in france means something?

(Again) I'm responding to you so I can't be off topic.
If you don't want to respond then dont
It won't hurt anyones feelings if you respond to anything a little less

Off topic (again) however:
You forgot picking cottton. Bet you're still cursing that damn civil war eh?

Yeppers were a country full of racist. Your ignorance and misinformation is showing again, not to mention your pention to stereotype

(Again) I'm responding to you so I can't be off topic.
If you don't want to respond then dont
It won't hurt anyones feelings if you respond to anything a little less

Off topic (again) however:
You have less unemployment because much of the employment you have is insecure untenured employment on minimum wage. You still have unemployment, because you are slaves to capitalist exploitation.

You hover between 12-9%. Until you fix that you have little to say that makes any sense whatsoever.

(Again) I'm responding to you so I can't be off topic.
If you don't want to respond then dont
It won't hurt anyones feelings if you respond to anything a little less

Off topic (again) however:
You used an openly racist term. That demonstrates ignorance.

I consider McKids and United Statesian Racist terms so get over it.

(Again) I'm responding to you so I can't be off topic.
If you don't want to respond then dont
It won't hurt anyones feelings if you respond to anything a little less

Off topic (again) however:
Yet you have unemployment. And poverty. And unisured people. And yet in your capitalit terms you're the richest nation in the world?

Yet you have all the same and a higher rate in some catagories. If you work and you put the effort out there is no place you can't go in this country. IF you want to slide through life however you llive in that manner also. NO it isn't perfect, and yes we have problems like any other nation. But i'll take my chances here with a strong work ethic any day. As opposed to working to support the chronically lazy and unemployed.

(Again) I'm responding to you so I can't be off topic.
If you don't want to respond then dont
It won't hurt anyones feelings if you respond to anything a little less

At least you're on topic!
Patch them up and send them on their way. They need REAL healthcare.

Again your ignorance is showing. YOu asked for, I provided it to you. And yet instead of aknowleding it you play it off like it doesn't exsist. Keep your head in the sand long enough and you can ignore everything

You bore us all the minute you log on:roll:

Comon on now. Your at best unoriginal. At worst...... well we have seen that already haven't we.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

Health



The U. S. may be richest country in the world, but to the people that can't afford or have no reasonable access to quality health care, it might as well be a third world country.

Maybe if we didn't have an economy where both parents have to work just to pay the bills. Or maybe if an expectant mom had 'family leave' where she didn't have to work right up until delivery day. Maybe...if we had NHC.

I guess we could always show them our GDP or our low unemployment rates. That should make them feel much better.

Tell you what... You give 45- 50% of your income over to help the terminally lazy and forever unemployed. I think I will hold on to my money for me and my family. And if it such an issue for you. Head on out to a country that fits you better. NO harm no foul. I mean france would take you in with open arms.

 

[bandaidwoman]

Not to diminsh the accomplishment of other countries on low infant mortality or the very real problem we have here......but let me tell you how statistics can be skewed to make the US infant mortality look bad:



The United States easily has the most intensive system of emergency intervention to keep low birth weight and premature infants alive in the world.

The US is only one of a handful countries that keeps detailed statistics on early fetal mortality -- the survival rate of infants who are born as early as the 20th week of gestation.

Thus, in the United States if an infant is born weighing only 400 grams and not breathing, a doctor will likely spend lot of time and money trying to revive that infant. If the infant does not survive -- and the mortality rate for such infants is in excess of 50 percent -- that sequence of events will be recorded as a live birth and then a death. In many countries (including many European countries) such severe medical intervention would not be attempted this would recorded as a fetal death rather than a live birth. That unfortunate infant would never show up in infant mortality statistics!!!

The above paraphrased from medical site discussion board.




Take Cuba (which has a better infant mortality)..... they do not register births under 1000g. In fact, this is precisely what the World Health Organization itself recommends that for official record keeping purposes, only live births of greater than 1,000g should be included. But guess what, we do!


Cuba looks better than the united states but in fact what is probably true is that the United States takes far more serious (and expensive) interventions among extremely low birth weight and extremely premature infants than Cuba (or much of the rest of the world for that matter) does.

The above are probably confounding variables along with decreased prenatal care in the poor of course

 

[Calm2Chaos]

Not to diminsh the accomplishment of other countries on low infant mortality or the very real problem we have here......but let me tell you how statistics can be skewed to make the US infant mortality look bad:



The United States easily has the most intensive system of emergency intervention to keep low birth weight and premature infants alive in the world.

The US is only one of a handful countries that keeps detailed statistics on early fetal mortality -- the survival rate of infants who are born as early as the 20th week of gestation.






The above paraphrased from medical site discussion board.




Take Cuba (which has a better infant mortality)..... they do not register births under 1000g. In fact, this is precisely what the World Health Organization itself recommends that for official record keeping purposes, only live births of greater than 1,000g should be included. But guess what, we do!


Cuba looks better than the united states but in fact what is probably true is that the United States takes far more serious (and expensive) interventions among extremely low birth weight and extremely premature infants than Cuba (or much of the rest of the world for that matter) does.

The above are probably confounding variables along with decreased prenatal care in the poor of course

WOW....I didn't know that... Thanks for the insight

 

[Urethra Franklin]

You're (better?) an elitist, or wannabe anyway. You damm sure should be perfect. You expect so much out of others, but so little out of yourself.
.

You're babbling, but at least your grammar's improved.

I'm responding to you so I can't be off topic.
If you don't want to respond then dont
It won't hurt anyones feelings if you respond to anything a little less
.

You respond to me, as you respond to most people, with irrelevant points. Many of your posts are off topic. One assumes you're just not that bright.

Again you know NOTHING concerning this country. Yet you attempt to talk as if you do. If your ignorant about America then do some research. BUt don't continue to post misinformation, innacurate information. Your comparing a country with an area of 547,030 sq km, to one of 9,631,420 + sq km---- 29,519 km of railway to 227,736 km . EVERYTIME you try and bring up these comparisons it make you look even more foolish.

*Public transportation is a $41 billion industry that employs more than 351,000 people.
*Since 1995, transit use has increased by 25.1 percent -- faster than highway travel.
*Americans took more than 9.7 BILLION public transportation trips in 2005.
*Every $1 billion invested by the federal government in public transportation infrastructure creates and maintains approximately 47,500 jobs.



WOW...THats pretty Scant. Your ignorance is showing

(Again) I'm responding to you so I can't be off topic.
If you don't want to respond then dont
It won't hurt anyones feelings if you respond to anything a little less

.

You're still off topic and still babbling

We invest all over the world for christ sake. Because we invest in france means something?
.

Yes, but you weren't bright enough to grasp it.
If France was the no hoper laughing stock you claim, the US would harldy be the biggest foreign investor and our foreign investment wouldn't keep growing. Example: the Dutch company Philips are about to open a huge new research centre in Caen. Why have they chosen France? because contrary to your claims, France actually makes it very attractive to come here for them. Not all companies will shirk at social charges and social responsibility. The greedy ones will, but they're the ones you like.

Yeppers were a country full of racist. .

Not quite, but you do have an institiutional racism and an unspoken apartheid in many of your cities that makes most European states look like rainbow nations.

I consider McKids and United Statesian Racist terms so get over it. .

I consider them accurate descriptions. Get over it.
I sense defensiveness. Are you overweight?

Yet you have all the same and a higher rate in some catagories. If you work and you put the effort out there is no place you can't go in this country. IF you want to slide through life however you llive in that manner also. NO it isn't perfect, and yes we have problems like any other nation. But i'll take my chances here with a strong work ethic any day. As opposed to working to support the chronically lazy and unemployed..

The unemployed we support - they're victims of capitalism. The chronically lazy we don't.

Again your ignorance is showing. YOu asked for, I provided it to you. And yet instead of aknowleding it you play it off like it doesn't exsist. Keep your head in the sand long enough and you can ignore everything



Comon on now. Your at best unoriginal. At worst...... well we have seen that already haven't we.

Br reminded the topic is universal health care. If you want to continue debating your other irrelevant points, open new threads, but here, please stay on topic. Good boy.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

You're babbling, but at least your grammar's improved.

Your just not bright enough to grasp simple sentences. So i don't see a big point in getting into anything to deep with you.

You respond to me, as you respond to most people, with irrelevant points. Many of your posts are off topic. One assumes you're just not that bright.

As you respond with elitism, arrogance and disdain. One assumes your a wannabe elitist without the tools to finish the job.... And they would be correct

You're still off topic and still babbling

I mad a valid point to counter the filthy ad nauseam lie you once again attempted to perpetrate. And since you were incapable of defending your drivel your retort was expected. Your bulbs starting to flicker... I think you're getting dimmer.

Yes, but you weren't bright enough to grasp it.
If France was the no hoper laughing stock you claim, the US would harldy be the biggest foreign investor and our foreign investment wouldn't keep growing. Example: the Dutch company Philips are about to open a huge new research centre in Caen. Why have they chosen France? because contrary to your claims, France actually makes it very attractive to come here for them. Not all companies will shirk at social charges and social responsibility. The greedy ones will, but they're the ones you like.

France is a political punchline the world over. If you're to far into denial to see that, it's your fault. Thats not to say there isn't investment oppurtunities in france. I'll invest in rabbit crap if it means I might make a buck. And if making a few dollars means putting up with the french then thats just what you have to do. It is what it is....

How about they don't shirk there responsibilities to actually hire a few people :doh It's so attractive to come there unemployment teeters on double digits. O the beauty of it all

Not quite, but you do have an institiutional racism and an unspoken apartheid in many of your cities that makes most European states look like rainbow nations.

If you say so....... Keep reading your comics and dreaming up your reality. You no nothing about this country, and you prove it with every pathetic little try. Although I will give you this.. You do make me chuckle....

I consider them accurate descriptions. Get over it.
I sense defensiveness. Are you overweight?

Defensiveness? get over yourself. your not important enough for me to get defensive about that. 5-10 250lbs... I could lose a few pounds.

And I consider my representation of you and the french accurate... Deal with it.

The unemployed we support - they're victims of capitalism. The chronically lazy we don't.

One in the same after a few months. Maybe a littel drive might kick start that dying economy of yours. Obviously the US is trying (again) to save this country but we can only do so much... the rest is up to you. Now go out there and make some American companies money... NOW!!!

Br reminded the topic is universal health care. If you want to continue debating your other irrelevant points, open new threads, but here, please stay on topic. Good boy.

Your agrguement consists of qouting GNP. Brilliant tactical move. repeat the same lame statistic over and over again. You don't want to debate anything, it's just an excuse you use to demean a country. Unless you have have something new, HOP on home....The funny part is I don't have a problem with NHC, i just don't think it will work in this country. I have no doubt it works great in other countries with less industrialasation<sp>, few people, smaller, less diverse, few global responsibilities (one or all of the above). NUmerous programs are availabe in this country concerning health and welfare. THey are not left to die in the streets as you try to make it sound. IS it perfect... Not by a long shot... BUt what is

 

[alphamale]

This is a fine thread, and ALL you posters are doing a great job! :2razz:

 

[BodiSatva]

There he goes again....the charade continues.

 

[Urethra Franklin]

Defensiveness? get over yourself. your not important enough for me to get defensive about that. 5-10 250lbs... I could lose a few pounds.

Only a few?

Darling, if there's one good thing about universal health care, it's that you'd have been offered a dietician's help years ago (for free). I suppose your health insurace company just forks out money blindly for the health problems your irresponsible obesity incurs? And your wonderful doctors don't actually care because your cardiologist, your endocrinologist and ultimately your liposuctionologist, amongst others, all stand to profit from your gluttony. Et voila - one of the reasons you have the most expensive healthcare in the world for only middling health outcomes.

Once again dear, the rest of your essay rather sent to me to sleep. DO stay on topic sweetpea, or don't bother responding. One is getting the impression that you're merely a troll.