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For those of you wondering why cops are trained to fire 7+ rounds if necessary...

Tlrmln said:
The funny (not funny haha, but funny strange/sad/unfortunate) about all this is that the BLM protests in 2014/15 arguably had the intended effect -- police killings of unarmed black men went down significantly (by about half, or 30-40 incidents per year), arguably as a result of police being less enthusiastic or more careful about arresting suspects, and loss of trust for police in communities.

But the number of murders of black men went UP by about 800 per year, arguably as a result of police being less enthusiastic or more careful about arresting suspects, and loss of trust for police in communities.

So for every killing of an unarmed black man that was arguably prevented by the BLM protests in 2014/15, 20 more black men arguably were just plain murdered.

Probably not the outcome BLM was hoping for, and I'll bet that it will happen again, maybe worse this time.
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I remember one time I was at a police pistol range that was open to the public. We were sitting at a table talking and an on duty police officer had stopped by. The officer got a call on his radio about an alarm going off at a business, He replied he was responding and then talked with us for another five to ten minutes before he left. It seems he was close to retirement.

I see a lot of this happening in the future. Response time will be up and the cops will arrive in the minority neighborhoods after the event is over to put up crime scene tape.

Why should a cop risk his life and his career to do a job no one appreciates?

I appreciate cops and have thanked them for their service when I run into one in a store.
 
Tlrmln said:
Yeah, no overwhelming evidence, other than:

-a cop were yelling "drop the knife" when he was walking around the car.
-a woman was yelling "put it down."
-a knife-shaped object seen in his hand in the video when he passes around the front of the vehicle.
-the knife on the floor in front of the driver seat, right where he was leaning when he was shot (i.e., he dropped it there when he was shot...who just keeps a knife on the floor of their car?).
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Stop lying. None of that was in the video. Besides, even if it was, he was walking away, not walking towards anyone to kill or attack them. Your alternative facts are not working
 
Citizen said:
Stop lying. None of that was in the video. Besides, even if it was, he was walking away, not walking towards anyone to kill or attack them. Your alternative facts are not working
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Yawn. Go ahead and bury your head in the sand if it helps save your love for your hero. I've gone through this too many times to GAF if you remain clueless and keep lying to others.

He had an outstanding warrant. He resisted arrest. He was armed. He was reaching into a vehicle, which is legally no different than reaching for his pocket or waistband. Any idiot can see that.
 
Tlrmln said:
Yawn. Go ahead and bury your head in the sand if it helps save your love for your hero. I've gone through this too many times to GAF if you remain clueless and keep lying to others.

He had an outstanding warrant. He resisted arrest. He was armed. He was reaching into a vehicle, which is legally no different than reaching for his pocket or waistband. Any idiot can see that.
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So he was armed and reaching into his car. Get your lives straight. Your alternative facts aren’t working
 
Citizen said:
So he was armed and reaching into his car. Get your lives straight. Your alternative facts aren’t working
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I'm sure you have some genius theory as to why those are inconsistent. Let us in on your brilliance, oh wise one.
 
Tlrmln said:
I'm sure you have some genius theory as to why those are inconsistent. Let us in on your brilliance, oh wise one.
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He was reaching for a knife. The police said he did not have a weapon. But he had a knife in his had and was reaching for another one, but they found only one knife in the car and no weapon on him. That is a real ****ty account of events
 
Tlrmln said:
I'm sure you have some genius theory as to why those are inconsistent. Let us in on your brilliance, oh wise one.
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He was reaching for a knife. The police said he did not have a weapon. But he had a knife in his hand and was reaching for another one, but they found only one knife in the car and no weapon on him. That is a real ****ty account of events
 
Citizen said:
He was reaching for a knife. The police said he did not have a weapon. But he had a knife in his had and was reaching for another one, but they found only one knife in the car and no weapon on him. That is a real ****ty account of events
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Wow, that's convoluted.

He had a knife in his hand. The police, who were pointing their guns at him and shouting at him to drop it (but not actually shooting him just yet, mind you), had no way of knowing why he was reaching into the car. It could have been to grab a gun. It could have been to grab a bigger knife. It could have been to grab an ice-cold Coca Cola, because fighting with police is thirsty business. He could have been planning to start slashing his kids' throats with the knife he already had. Violent lunatics sometimes do that. Or he could have been trying to get into the car and drive off, possibly leading police on a high-speed chase with his kids in the car.

The cops have to assume the worst, just like they almost always do when someone suddenly reaches for a pocket or waistband.

The police absolutely did NOT say that he did not have a weapon. That's a flat out lie.

This isn't complicated. That's it, last time I respond to you unless you come up with an actual fact that everyone doesn't already know. I'm not going to keep playing whackamole with your nonsense.
 
Tlrmln said:
Wow, that's convoluted.

He had a knife in his hand. The police, who were pointing their guns at him and shouting at him to drop it (but not actually shooting him just yet, mind you), had no way of knowing why he was reaching into the car. It could have been to grab a gun. It could have been to grab a bigger knife. It could have been to grab an ice-cold Coca Cola, because fighting with police is thirsty business. He could have been planning to start slashing his kids' throats with the knife he already had. Violent lunatics sometimes do that. Or he could have been trying to get into the car and drive off, possibly leading police on a high-speed chase with his kids in the car.

The cops have to assume the worst, just like they almost always do when someone suddenly reaches for a pocket or waistband.

The police absolutely did NOT say that he did not have a weapon. That's a flat out lie.

This isn't complicated. That's it, last time I respond to you unless you come up with an actual fact that everyone doesn't already know. I'm not going to keep playing whackamole with your nonsense.
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You know the cops changed their story after they spoke to the police union lawyers and pretend that the witnesses are lying. So we will see how this all ends. You don’t change your story unless you did something wrong
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Your attempt to equate holding police officers legally accountable for their actions as "a lynching" makes me want to ignore your entire post and go about my day but I'll give you another chance to turn down the hyperbole.

First, being a cop is not even in the top 20 most dangerous jobs, so the conservative position that cops should just blast everyone the second they feel slightly uneasy is ridiculous. I had far stricter ROE as a soldier in Afghanistan. If I had blasted an unarmed civilian in my custody I would've gone the **** to prison.

Second, the justification you just used could justify ANY killing. Sure, that officer shot a bunch of little kids in the back of the head, but we have no idea what else he saw, maybe those kids could've had guns in the backpacks!

Thirdly, this is a great example of why we need universal body cams. The only people that oppose them are bad cops who don't want their actions scrutinized.

Lastly, even if this was an unjust shooting, you people would defend him regardless because in your mind the cop is ALWAYS right. If bad cops were held accountible for their actions the good ones would have some credibility when the situation isn't so clear.
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In passing, after condemning hyperbole, the rest of your post was hyperbolic.

That aside, you are attaching conclusions to my thoughts that I did not put there.

I am saying pretty clearly that the events leading to the very short video are not known to the viewers seeing only that video.

NBC News reported last night that the Kenosha shooting victim WAS armed with a knife at the time of the shooting. Undoubtedly, more actual facts will come to light.

The vandalized properties, injuries and deaths resulting from the inflaming propaganda previously produced cannot be undone.

Additional FACTS are coming to light all the time in these things and USUALLY seem to reveal things that justify the chain of events and the judgements made in real time.

The murder of George Floyd was a glaring exception to these justified actions.

Again, the cops didn't just stop, pick a guy from the crowd and shoot him in the back 7 times as the story is meant to indicate.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Comparing an unarmed man being shot in the back 7 times with a guy attacking a cop with a machete is desperate and pathetic. These two situations are not even remotely equivalent.
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The main difference is the man with the knife shot 7 times was much, much, much closer to the officer than the man with the machete. The machete attacker was much less of a threat.

The reason the military went to the 45 acp was specifically because in the Spanish American war it was learned that in close combat even if they shot the someone attacking with a machete 6 times this usually would not stop the attacker until the soldier was successfully hacked with the machete. At 38 has about the same fire power as a 9mm.

Police generally are only allowed standard "ball" ammo and in 9mm that is very little power at slowing someone down. Anyone with a knife within 30 feet is a lethal threat to police who will have little chance to stop the person if the person attacks.
 
 
joko104 said:
The main difference is the man with the knife shot 7 times was much, much, much closer to the officer than the man with the machete. The machete attacker was much less of a threat.

The reason the military went to the 45 acp was specifically because in the Spanish American war it was learned that in close combat even if they shot the someone attacking with a machete 6 times this usually would not stop the attacker until the soldier was successfully hacked with the machete. At 38 has about the same fire power as a 9mm.

Police generally are only allowed standard "ball" ammo and in 9mm that is very little power at slowing someone down. Anyone with a knife within 30 feet is a lethal threat to police who will have little chance to stop the person if the person attacks.
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I don't read joko posts.
 
Tlrmln said:
...this is why:



Sometimes 6 is not enough to stop a threat.
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You think that this cop being chased down and attacked by a guy with a machete
is analogous to the other guy walking away trying to get into a car? :lol:
 
AlphaOmega said:
The jogger argument was debunked months ago. He was actually robbing them. Change your channel off of CNN.
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The black jogger followed and shot by the guys in the pick-up? No, he did not rob anybody...
 
Bodhisattva said:
You think that this cop being chased down and attacked by a guy with a machete
is analogous to the other guy walking away trying to get into a car? :lol:
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No. When did I say that?

I think one was justified because the cop was being chased by a guy with a machete.

I think the other was most likely justified because Blake was resisting arrest for a violent crime, had a knife, and was reaching into a car while at gunpoint.

The point of this thread is to explain why police are trained to shoot more than once, i.e., because guns don't work like they do in the movies.
 
Tlrmln said:
No. When did I say that?

I think one was justified because the cop was being chased by a guy with a machete.

I think the other was most likely justified because Blake was resisting arrest for a violent crime, had a knife, and was reaching into a car while at gunpoint.

The point of this thread is to explain why police are trained to shoot more than once, i.e., because guns don't work like they do in the movies.
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Everybody already knows why cops shoot more than once while there is a need to do so...
 
Bodhisattva said:
Everybody already knows why cops shoot more than once while there is a need to do so...
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Yeah, everybody except all the people who are making a huge deal about the fact that 7 shots were fired, even though it's nothing remarkable.
 
Tlrmln said:
Yeah, everybody except all the people who are making a huge deal about the fact that 7 shots were fired, even though it's nothing remarkable.
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Nah... they are all upset that 7 shots were fired into a guys back while he was not a direct threat to the cop...
 
Bodhisattva said:
Nah... they are all upset that 7 shots were fired into a guys back while he was not a direct threat to the cop...
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The standard for self defense is not whether someone is actually a threat.

It's absolutely textbook that if a suspect is reaching for something when at gunpoint, whether that's in his clothing or a car, a cop is justified in shooting.
 
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