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For PeteEU: virus on Mac continued

Infinite Chaos

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So as to not derail Hugh Akston's thread further.. Let me start by saying - I use both systems (PC and Mac). I have no great preference for general computing with either a Mac or a PC, they have their strengths and weaknesses and if I'm doing what I originally trained for - I use a Mac. For anything else - it's whichever computer is nearer to me.

You can say that of any freaking OS now days. I cant do jack**** on Windows 7 without giving permission...

And just like on "Vista", you could turn off UAC via administrator tools - plus they've copied that from Mac finally... However, I disagree - Windows stills lets other things happen in the background that you're not always aware of.

-- But you should know that 3rd party programs dont follow your rule of "need to allow".. once you start a program up then you have given permission. That is why malware and spyware is a huge problem these days... and then there is of course the.. "press yes" crowd.

I've had Macs and PCs since the early 1990's - the basic MO hasn't changed on a Mac, everyone else has been moving towards that but all the while Mac haters call it "Apple arrogance" for having a closed system..

-- .... yea you had to start Safari....

Users may encounter the worm via links posted on Facebook, MySpace, Twitter, and other websites. When clicking the link, the applet attempts to run. Users can stop the infection before it starts by denying the applet permission to run when OS X's Java player pops up a dialogue.

If they allow the applet to run, they may get another warning if they have a Mac antispyware program like VirusBarrier X6’s Anti-Spyware installed. If they don't get the warning, or choose to disregard it, the applet will attempt to make a connection with a remote server and installs a rootkit, backdoor, command and control, and other elements. These files are copied to an invisible folder -- .jnana -- in the user's home directory.

If the virus is allowed to carry out its infection process, the unsuspecting Mac user may find themselves part of a botnet. When they log on social networks, the virus will post links to spread the infection. It may also send spam e-mail via their logged-in accounts Virus on Mac asks user permission to continue

-- Form zero to 2nd behind Symbian, and now down to 3rd.

Not disputed - but the impact of iPhone cannot be denied, no matter how much you hate Apple.

If Windows Phone 7 takes off then it might be 4th soon and if RIM regains its footing then it might be 5th.

koff koff... zune player...... koff!

-- As you would in Windows. Apple Macs are no more secure at all, it is a myth.

You can't turn off the request permission sequence on a Mac, you can however on other machines. In my experience it isn't as obtrusive on a Mac either.

-- Because no one bought the damn things because Apple wanted like now, to control everything. Jobs was the one that thought up the whole idea and it nearly cost Apples life in the early years. And he has still not learned.

So why does the company still exist and make such profits if nobody buys their hardware?

-- Okay then B&O. Their TVs cost a fortune but in reality it is just a Phillips TV with a custom mod on. Does not change the fact that it is not a Ferrari of TVs.. it is just a Phillips. Same thing with Apple Macs.[ It is just a cheap ass PC inside that is being sold with a so so OS to inflated prices.

Now you chose a bad analogy - I distinctly explained that it was to do with what else you got when you bought a Mac - seamless integration to other devices and services. I still remember chugging along with windows machines that boasted plug and play yet couldn't find the printer sat right next to it...

If I wanted the same specs with Windows 7 on it, I would may much less.

If you just want the specs- go windows, if you want it to work-expect to pay a little more either by configuring your PC or getting a mac.

-- No, but the PC market is as big as it is today because of games.. and dont even try to deny that. There would be no reason for bigger and faster chips if it was not for the gaming industry.

Agreed, I, like many others in creative industries had a Mac for design and artwork jobs and a PC for games. Nobody ever said I couldn't have both machines. :mrgreen:

-- Ipad has good battery life because it has been gutted so much so to save as much power as possible.. Flash for example.

I've explained this to other Mac-haters before, Adobe refused to update and improve Flash on Macs, including desktop Macs and so the computer would run hot. Apple then said "s***w you" and dropped Flash. In the end it wasn't Apple walking cap in hand to Adobe to optimise their computer - Adobe changed the code and decided to start keeping Flash as optimised for Apple as it does on windows machines. I already explained - a couple of ex Adobe guys are already competing with Adobe for the next gen video player on Macs based on Flash Lite. It's the head guys who wrote the code for Flash.

-- It is still not native to Apple Ipad, plus the OS has limited video codec compatibility.

Quicktime is still pretty damned good. I use Flash on my PC and Quicktime on my Mac.

-- yes "me too" for much cheaper for now since they are rushing to the market.. but soon it will be Apple that is behind when Honeycomb comes out and the new gen dual core tablets come out in a few months.

These slates are and probably will still be for a few more years about media consumption. Creators don't use slates (iPads or Android slates) but what keeps iPad ahead is battery life and stunning screen. There's nothing similar on a PC or Android yet. It's only a year ago Steve Balmer told us of HPs new slate... and HP quietly killed it when iPad came out because windows 7 produces crap battery life on a slate.

I heard Ipad 2 will have a camera!.. but still no USB or HDMI... tsk tsk.

Do you remember when Apple decided to drop floppy disks? PC people said "aha, crappy Macs don't have floppy drives... tsk tsk."

How long did you continue using floppies after Apple dropped floppy drives? :mrgreen:
 

Fiddytree

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I admit that Apple OS X (I have my grave doubts about iOS) are a bit more secure some other counterparts, but indeed, there it is stupid to think they are invincible, as both of you seem to agree. I also prefer having to type my password in each time I install an application or something else rather than click yes or no. It prevents me from being an idiot.
 

whysoserious

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You know what the problem with Apple is? Apple users. They are smug just like the commercials. The commercials were based towards people who were too dumb to use a PC. "I could not get my camera to hook up to my computer" or "I couldn't figure out how to turn my PC off". Macs are more of a community of people who think they are better than everyone else.

Everyone I know that has a Mac feels like they need to tell me about it. Little do they know that they overpaid for their product that has the same parts that most PCs have. Mac Pros start at $2500!

$2500 and they don't have anything special. I got my PC custom built with the same processor, a far superior video card, a similar dispay (mine was 3 inches smaller), more ram, and the same memory for far less. But unfortunately, most people (I said most not all) who use Macs couldn't build a computer for their life. That's why they buy and swear by Macs, because they were duped into it by the "it's easier to use than a PC" commercial.

*Edit:

Nevermind, if you want the display it is $1000 more! So it is $2500 for a mobo, quad core 2.8 intel, radeon 5770, apple software, and 3GB of ram.

What a rip off.
 
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Fiddytree

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Sounds like you are smug.
 

Fiddytree

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Nevermind, if you want the display it is $1000 more! So it is $2500 for a mobo, quad core 2.8 intel, radeon 5770, apple software, and 3GB of ram.

What a rip off.

Apple displays are high quality products that are not high sellers in comparison with most display manufacturers. They go after some of the high end crowd and are priced as such. It's a silly comparison. Just go to another store and pick out a display that suits you.
 
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whysoserious

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Apple displays are high quality products that are not high sellers. They go after some of the high end crowd. It's a silly comparison. Just go to another store and pick out a display that suits you. Don't upgrade ram through their store, you can get it cheaper elsewhere.

I was referring to the rest of the system. I don't mind the $1000 for the display, but rather charging $2500 for that machine that you could build for probably around $1500 (maybe a bit less). I should know - mine is very similar.
 

The Giant Noodle

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I wipe my poopy butt with Mac.
Apple is a overpriced hardware device that contains the same hardware a PC does! The difference is it has an Apple OS on it. And that OS is for people that dont know much about computers. That or people that THINK they know computers and like to pay 2x or more for the same thing.

Apple = uneducated person.
OR
Apple = advertising sucker
 

Fiddytree

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I wipe my poopy butt with Mac.
Apple is a overpriced hardware device that contains the same hardware a PC does! The difference is it has an Apple OS on it. And that OS is for people that dont know much about computers. That or people that THINK they know computers and like to pay 2x or more for the same thing.

Apple = uneducated person.
OR
Apple = advertising sucker

Seriously. Why must this be a constant penis measuring contest? I use Windows and OS X and I enjoy both.
 

Infinite Chaos

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-- it is stupid to think they are invincible --

No, if you check the thread I linked from, you'll see that I don't think either are invincible - just that Mac OS gives you the user the last say on whether you give a virus or trojan permission to infect your system.

-- Little do they know that they overpaid for their product that has the same parts that most PCs have. --

$2500 and they don't have anything special. I got my PC custom built with the same processor, a far superior video card, a similar dispay (mine was 3 inches smaller), more ram, and the same memory for far less --

Yes, the creative industries all know this, they could easily go to PC builders and buy DIY PCs with the exact same parts or better for less - but they don't. It isn't because of collective stupidity either.

Why bother to buy an expensive digital SLR costing £2000, a high res industrial digital printer or more and then hook them up to a computer where your colour printing and management is at best a guess? The creative industries (it's the same in the US) use Macs because of the inbuilt colour handling a Mac gives you. That's not smug - it's simply saying I want to print / burn / produce images and or designs that have the correct colour and the colour that comes out of my manufacturing device is exactly the same as I see on my computer monitor...

Even digital video editing for film has been switching over from propriety Avid systems to simple Macs because of this.

Seriously. Why must this be a constant penis measuring contest? I use Windows and OS X and I enjoy both.

That was pretty much where my argument with PeteEU started... I have both here on my home desktop and I also use both at work.
 

Deuce

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It's not penis measuring to point out that PCs give a vastly superior hardware:cost ratio.
 

Middleground

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You know what the problem with Apple is? Apple users. They are smug just like the commercials. The commercials were based towards people who were too dumb to use a PC. "I could not get my camera to hook up to my computer" or "I couldn't figure out how to turn my PC off". Macs are more of a community of people who think they are better than everyone else.

Everyone I know that has a Mac feels like they need to tell me about it. Little do they know that they overpaid for their product that has the same parts that most PCs have. Mac Pros start at $2500!

$2500 and they don't have anything special. I got my PC custom built with the same processor, a far superior video card, a similar dispay (mine was 3 inches smaller), more ram, and the same memory for far less. But unfortunately, most people (I said most not all) who use Macs couldn't build a computer for their life. That's why they buy and swear by Macs, because they were duped into it by the "it's easier to use than a PC" commercial.

*Edit:

Nevermind, if you want the display it is $1000 more! So it is $2500 for a mobo, quad core 2.8 intel, radeon 5770, apple software, and 3GB of ram.

What a rip off.

Sorry... Macs are so much easier.

I love the fact that I can upgrade my own OS without having to:
a) Reinstall all of my software
b) worry that I totally ****ed something up

I was in the PC world for years and got so freaking tired of viruses, a slow system, having to upgrade my computer (buy a new one!) every freaking time a new version of Windows comes out, the ****ty ergonomics and other bull****. After my PC crapped out the 3rd time in 3 years, I went back to Mac. I have had my system for 2+ years now and it's still as fast as when I first got it. I don't have wires all over the place because everything is built in, and maaaaan, it takes up so much less space! Also, I don't need any virus protection running behind the scenes and slowing things down. Sorry, Apple does things better and have for years. The only difference is that people are now more willing to spend more to get quality.
 

Fiddytree

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No, if you check the thread I linked from, you'll see that I don't think either are invincible - just that Mac OS gives you the user the last say on whether you give a virus or trojan permission to infect your system.

I did not mean to say that you think they are invincible, as I said that both of you agree on that point.

It's not penis measuring to point out that PCs give a vastly superior hardware:cost ratio.

No, it's not. What is, however, is to reduce computer product users into camps of educated or uneducated simply because of which product they chose.

Soon I will, however, purchased a laptop from another OEM, as I have become rather disappointed with Apple's Macbook line in regard to its build quality.
 

PeteEU

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So as to not derail Hugh Akston's thread further.. Let me start by saying - I use both systems (PC and Mac). I have no great preference for general computing with either a Mac or a PC, they have their strengths and weaknesses and if I'm doing what I originally trained for - I use a Mac. For anything else - it's whichever computer is nearer to me.

And that comes down to what you are use too, which is why Apple will never be anything but a small market. People are use to Microsoft and Windows.

And just like on "Vista", you could turn off UAC via administrator tools - plus they've copied that from Mac finally... However, I disagree - Windows stills lets other things happen in the background that you're not always aware of.

As does Mac, else why constantly patch it because of security issues?

But as you should know.. most security issues are in 3rd party programs not the OS themselves. And technically Internet Explorer and Safari are "3rd party" programs not native to the OS.

Not disputed - but the impact of iPhone cannot be denied, no matter how much you hate Apple.

I dont hate Apple. I hate that it is getting more credit and coverage than everyone else combined and that it is not justified. Apple can get away and has gotten away with "murder" with no consequences.

koff koff... zune player...... koff!

Yes, but again Microsoft ****ed that up big time by not pushing the player and the market enough. It did not even make it to Europe for god sake as far as I know.

But what I am talking about are quite advanced cheap mp3 players on the market.. hell most modern phones have mp3 players these days. Problem with Itunes is you can only use Ipod (which brings up competition issues to be frank) where as Amazon music sales and what not, use the standard MP3 which everyone can use. But because of the marketing juggernaut of Apple people simply dont understand this. However it seems Google will finally release their music store this year and that will be a huge threat to Apple Itunes store.

You can't turn off the request permission sequence on a Mac, you can however on other machines. In my experience it isn't as obtrusive on a Mac either.

So you are saying that on a Mac you dont control everything? I can easily set up my Windows Machine (and do of some people) to not allow anything without permission. At least it is me that is make that call and not Apple. Are you saying Apple is for idiots? :)

So why does the company still exist and make such profits if nobody buys their hardware?

The Fanboys. Apple has one of the biggest group of hardcore fans that will buy almost anything Apple. It kept Apple alive for decades and mostly in the US. Apple was and still is non existent outside the US on the PC market.

Now you chose a bad analogy - I distinctly explained that it was to do with what else you got when you bought a Mac - seamless integration to other devices and services. I still remember chugging along with windows machines that boasted plug and play yet couldn't find the printer sat right next to it...

That is because of the USB standard.. nothing more nothing less. USB sucks and always has.

If you just want the specs- go windows, if you want it to work-expect to pay a little more either by configuring your PC or getting a mac.

So not true. Windows 7 does not need any configuring. Sure people have different ways of wanting the desktop and different programs they want installed, but other than that, Windows does not need any configuring.

Agreed, I, like many others in creative industries had a Mac for design and artwork jobs and a PC for games. Nobody ever said I couldn't have both machines. :mrgreen:

Yes Apple has cornered the market for design and artwork early on, and because you are use to use to it, then you are sticking to it. Same reason that most PCs in companies is still Windows based, because people are use too it. The creative industry can get exactly the same software on a windows based pc these days, but because they are use to using Apple machines then they will not change.

I've explained this to other Mac-haters before, Adobe refused to update and improve Flash on Macs, including desktop Macs and so the computer would run hot. Apple then said "s***w you" and dropped Flash.

Yes that is the excuse Jobs and Co used.

In the end it wasn't Apple walking cap in hand to Adobe to optimise their computer - Adobe changed the code and decided to start keeping Flash as optimised for Apple as it does on windows machines. I already explained - a couple of ex Adobe guys are already competing with Adobe for the next gen video player on Macs based on Flash Lite. It's the head guys who wrote the code for Flash.

And yet Flash is still not native to new Apple products, while a huge number of websites use it.. basically making it impossible for Apple users to use many websites. The number of times I have heard people being disappointed over Ipad not opening up their fav. website.. I would be rich.

Quicktime is still pretty damned good. I use Flash on my PC and Quicktime on my Mac.

Quicktime HAHAHHAHA, it is piece of junk. The files it produces are huge, and it cant without a lot of help, run different types of codec. I have not installed quicktime on my pc's (the codec yes) for the last decade because it is a piece of junk. It constantly wants to install Itunes and other programs that I do not want. It is a HUGE size also. Same goes for Realplayer btw.

These slates are and probably will still be for a few more years about media consumption. Creators don't use slates (iPads or Android slates) but what keeps iPad ahead is battery life and stunning screen. There's nothing similar on a PC or Android yet. It's only a year ago Steve Balmer told us of HPs new slate... and HP quietly killed it when iPad came out because windows 7 produces crap battery life on a slate.

It has not been killed. It costs 800 dollars.

Plus Windows is not designed for tablets and Microsoft knows this. And Windows is not at the moment the main competitor to Apple Ipad... Android is.

Do you remember when Apple decided to drop floppy disks? PC people said "aha, crappy Macs don't have floppy drives... tsk tsk."

Yes and at the time it was the single most dumbest thing to do. There was no real alternative. There is now. When you bought an Apple product, you could only use other Apple products that had drivers already installed in the OS.. because there was no way you could get new drivers onto the machine for new hardware. That seriously limited your options. This was of course before the wide usage of the Internet.

How long did you continue using floppies after Apple dropped floppy drives? :mrgreen:

Quite a while but in declining numbers. The problem was not the floppy drive but in fact the motherboard manufactures that did not make motherboards that had a replacement ..USB or whatever, and that you could boot from it. Once that became native even on the cheap ass motherboards, then the floppy died out.
 

Andalublue

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I ain't getting into the whole price:performance issue, I just love my Macs. I have 2, a 5-year-old PowerBook G4 and a new 20.5" iMac. I'm aware that I could have got a PC with a similar spec for about 70% of the price, but I'm willing to pay the Apple premium in order to be able to use the OSX that I know so well and which has never let me down, never confused me. I also use my Mac to run Final Cut, the industry standard off-line edit system. No PC-based system comes close. I'm not evangelising for Mac, yeah they're expensive for what you get, but I wouldn't go back to a PC by choice.
 

Fiddytree

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But what I am talking about are quite advanced cheap mp3 players on the market.. hell most modern phones have mp3 players these days. Problem with Itunes is you can only use Ipod (which brings up competition issues to be frank) where as Amazon music sales and what not, use the standard MP3 which everyone can use. But because of the marketing juggernaut of Apple people simply dont understand this. However it seems Google will finally release their music store this year and that will be a huge threat to Apple Itunes store.

Apple's iTunes Store has long since removed its Fairplay DRM scheme from music. It remains with video content, however. It is up to the company of the DAP to support the AAC codec, which anyone is able to do, provided they pay the correct licensing fees to the MPEG group, et al like the other codecs.

And technically Internet Explorer and Safari are "3rd party" programs not native to the OS.

Not entirely. If you recall, IE was criticized for being too imbedded within the OS. A much more muted argument also ensued with regard to Apple's embedded performance bias towards Safari in its OS. Likewise, being packaged and tied with the OS and more or less developed in house makes it first party.

The Fanboys. Apple has one of the biggest group of hardcore fans that will buy almost anything Apple. It kept Apple alive for decades and mostly in the US. Apple was and still is non existent outside the US on the PC market.

And yet their marketshare has dramatically increased over the past decade.

That is because of the USB standard.. nothing more nothing less. USB sucks and always has.

Or maybe many other things, because typically USB devices on a Mac at least argued by him, just work .....?

Yes Apple has cornered the market for design and artwork early on, and because you are use to use to it, then you are sticking to it. Same reason that most PCs in companies is still Windows based, because people are use too it. The creative industry can get exactly the same software on a windows based pc these days, but because they are use to using Apple machines then they will not change.

Yes and no. There are those who swear by it due to tradition or admit it, and there are those who claim essential differences between the climates. Likewise, some prefer given applications over others (Final Cut Pro vs. competitors).

And yet Flash is still not native to new Apple products, while a huge number of websites use it.. basically making it impossible for Apple users to use many websites. The number of times I have heard people being disappointed over Ipad not opening up their fav. website.. I would be rich.

Yeah, flash is bloated, buggy, and annoying, but I simply do not agree with their stance either.

Quicktime HAHAHHAHA, it is piece of junk. The files it produces are huge, and it cant without a lot of help, run different types of codec. I have not installed quicktime on my pc's (the codec yes) for the last decade because it is a piece of junk. It constantly wants to install Itunes and other programs that I do not want. It is a HUGE size also. Same goes for Realplayer btw.

I love Quicktime. I found throughout the years in using its H.264 encoder, the files were larger (typically, I find that a necessary evil if not a moment of satisfaction), but I was more impressed with reaching transparency through it than the other codecs and encoders. I understand the complaints about how it feels under Windows though. Much of Apple's software on that program (Edit: Excuse me, OS) just feels like the ugly duckling of the applications you run on a daily basis.

Yes and at the time it was the single most dumbest thing to do. There was no real alternative. There is now. When you bought an Apple product, you could only use other Apple products that had drivers already installed in the OS.. because there was no way you could get new drivers onto the machine for new hardware. That seriously limited your options. This was of course before the wide usage of the Internet.

Yeah, it depended on the situation. At times I thought "I am so glad they ditched it because I have _________, __________, and ______ instead anyway. Then at other times, it felt like, oh shoot, in this given situation quick and easy is not an option when it could have been. Zip disks were one funky piece of technology. I wonder if I ever had a good moment with that darn thing medium.
 
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whysoserious

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Yes, the creative industries all know this, they could easily go to PC builders and buy DIY PCs with the exact same parts or better for less - but they don't. It isn't because of collective stupidity either.

Why bother to buy an expensive digital SLR costing £2000, a high res industrial digital printer or more and then hook them up to a computer where your colour printing and management is at best a guess? The creative industries (it's the same in the US) use Macs because of the inbuilt colour handling a Mac gives you. That's not smug - it's simply saying I want to print / burn / produce images and or designs that have the correct colour and the colour that comes out of my manufacturing device is exactly the same as I see on my computer monitor...

Even digital video editing for film has been switching over from propriety Avid systems to simple Macs because of this.



That was pretty much where my argument with PeteEU started... I have both here on my home desktop and I also use both at work.

And all that would be valid if Apple was only targeting the creative industries. I have heard that Macs come with great video software, etc. Of the people who buy Macs, how many of them do you really think use all that?

I see Macs all over the place now, and they are definitely being used to upload pictures onto, take notes in class, and browse facebook. Those people got ripped off so bad.
 

The Mark

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I use PCs.

Never had a Mac.

Thus, cannot compare, really.
 

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And that comes down to what you are use too, which is why Apple will never be anything but a small market. People are use to Microsoft and Windows.

You get what you pay for. ;)

-- As does Mac, else why constantly patch it because of security issues?

That all happened when Apple handed manufacture of CPUs to Intel. before that, it controlled what the cpu would allow. Before you say Intel was better - Apple was aware of the Mhz hype that some Mac buyers were falling for. IBM and Motorola didn't need higher Mhz to build a better computer as IBMs big blue showed.

But as you should know.. most security issues are in 3rd party programs not the OS themselves. And technically Internet Explorer and Safari are "3rd party" programs not native to the OS.

Fiddytree has already answered this - however you can eliminate most virus threats by simply disconnecting from the internet. However, if you stuck a USB with a virus onto your PC, you were just as much at danger. Not so with a Mac.

-- I dont hate Apple --

Then you haven't read the posts by Middleground and Andalublue regarding why creative producers/manufacturers use Macs to see why they still exist. I'm going to bet Winston and hatuey are also Mac users as they are professional photographers.

Yes, but again Microsoft ****ed that up big time by not pushing the player and the market enough. It did not even make it to Europe for god sake as far as I know.

But what I am talking about are quite advanced cheap mp3 players on the market.. hell most modern phones have mp3 players these days. Problem with Itunes is you can only use Ipod (which brings up competition issues to be frank) where as Amazon music sales and what not, use the standard MP3 which everyone can use. But because of the marketing juggernaut of Apple people simply dont understand this.

Zune was exactly the same as all the other MP3 players that didn't have an App store or music store. Other MP3 players only appealed to the illegal download market - that says something about iPod users. You could easily download free illegal music onto your proprietary MP3 player but vast numbers of people instead elected to reward creative industries (musicians and producers) by paying for their music.

-- However it seems Google will finally release their music store this year and that will be a huge threat to Apple Itunes store.

If Google users are willing to pay creatives and the creative industry for their efforts then I can only be happy. I won't complain.

-- So you are saying that on a Mac you dont control everything? I can easily set up my Windows Machine (and do of some people) to not allow anything without permission. At least it is me that is make that call and not Apple. Are you saying Apple is for idiots? :)

I've explained it many times Pete - the user has last say and responsibility for whether a virus does what it wants. On a PC most users hand over that responsibility to their anti-virus.

Besides - I can go to any website I want on a Mac and remain virus / trojan free.

-- The Fanboys. Apple has one of the biggest group of hardcore fans that will buy almost anything Apple. It kept Apple alive for decades and mostly in the US. Apple was and still is non existent outside the US on the PC market.

Why are there successful Apple Stores in London, Glasgow and also on the continent? Why does every serious graphic design company (look at the figures for market size), photographer, video producer, artist etc use Macs?

-- That is because of the USB standard.. nothing more nothing less. USB sucks and always has.

As fiddytree says - it worked on a Mac.......... :mrgreen:

-- So not true. Windows 7 does not need any configuring. Sure people have different ways of wanting the desktop and different programs they want installed, but other than that, Windows does not need any configuring.

So why does Windows 7 come in more than one version? (ha, they killed off "starter edition") Why does Microsoft offer an exam qualification in configuring Windows?.

You only need one version of Mac OS..... :mrgreen:

-- Yes Apple has cornered the market for design and artwork early on, and because you are use to use to it, then you are sticking to it. Same reason that most PCs in companies is still Windows based, because people are use too it. The creative industry can get exactly the same software on a windows based pc these days, but because they are use to using Apple machines then they will not change.

Are you kidding me? Did you not read this?

http://www.debatepolitics.com/off-t...eteeu-virus-mac-continued.html#post1059259446

Microsoft tried showing that you could do the same stuff a year or so ago if you worked in the creative industry and got a studio to produce all the artwork and design on a PC using the same software... it turned out after that the design studio used their Macs for all the colour calibration, file creation, profile handling then pushed boxes around on the layout on a PC and then went back to Macs for print handling. Laughable. If you care about the quality of your artwork-you use a computer that helps you get your artwork exactly as you want it and see it.

-- Yes that is the excuse Jobs and Co used.

You're better than that. The facts are out there if you look for them. I'm willing to bet you've never used a desktop or laptop Mac when surfing Flash websites.

In fact, have you ever used a Mac?

-- And yet Flash is still not native to new Apple products, while a huge number of websites use it.. basically making it impossible for Apple users to use many websites. The number of times I have heard people being disappointed over Ipad not opening up their fav. website.. I would be rich.

Flash started on Macs when Macromedia took it out of Director and made it a single application. Macromedia developed Flash on both platforms but when Adobe bought it, they focussed on the PC market. Adobe even issued their dissapointment when the iPad didn't support it - but why blame Apple because Adobe had been scr****g over Mac users for years?

-- Quicktime HAHAHHAHA, it is piece of junk. The files it produces are huge, and it cant without a lot of help, run different types of codec.

Quicktime didn't produce the interactive web experience that Flash was designed to. It plays video and produces flattened movies in any format you want for PC and Mac. I always have quicktime pro. My animation students have it on their machines so they can easily export their work to Youtube..... (and have it in the colours they created - not the colours another encoder chooses for them) :mrgreen:

-- It has not been killed. It costs 800 dollars.

OK, HP quietly shelved it after all the hype at original show, finally released it without harping on about battery life and all the other things Steve Balmer said it would do. If you bought one, good for you. Everyone else wanting a proper media consumption slate bought an iPad

-- Windows is not at the moment the main competitor to Apple Ipad... Android is

Yes and that depends on an Android slate having the battery life and screen quality to match an iPod... good luck with that.

People will pay £150 for a chinese android slate and put up with the rubbish screen and poor resolution - so what? You get what you are willing to pay for....

-- Yes and at the time it was the single most dumbest thing to do. There was no real alternative. There is now. When you bought an Apple product, you could only use other Apple products that had drivers already installed in the OS.. because there was no way you could get new drivers onto the machine for new hardware. That seriously limited your options. This was of course before the wide usage of the Internet.

Absolute rubbish, nobody who seriously used their Macs used floppies. Artwork and important files went onto a Zip disc (I never had problems with mine) and then eventually USB.
 

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And all that would be valid if Apple was only targeting the creative industries. I have heard that Macs come with great video software, etc. Of the people who buy Macs, how many of them do you really think use all that?

I see Macs all over the place now, and they are definitely being used to upload pictures onto, take notes in class, and browse facebook. Those people got ripped off so bad.

If your choice of which computer to buy was only ever a question of technical specifications (processor speed, memory, graphics card etc) then I might agree. But it's not. Why would anyone buy a VW when there are Hyundais and Kias that go as fast, carry as many people and do better mileage AND are 2/3rds of the price? That's how retailing works. You build a brand based on a number of factors that allow you to charge a certain price for a product. That price is not always simply the total cost of all the components that go into making the product. By your logic, why would anyone buy a Sony VAIO product which, spec for spec, is always far more expensive than, say an Asus or a Packard Bell?
 

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Then you haven't read the posts by Middleground and Andalublue regarding why creative producers/manufacturers use Macs to see why they still exist. I'm going to bet Winston and hatuey are also Mac users as they are professional photographers.

I know and I dont deny that the creative industry use Macs and have from the start.. which proves my point. The creative industry are use to Macs, just as the 95% of people on the planet are use to Windows machines and would not change. Companies need one hell of incentive to change away from their present tech.. that is why Linux or Apple Mac never has and probably never will make any impact on the business front (non server), because the cost of retraining the workers is far too high.

Zune was exactly the same as all the other MP3 players that didn't have an App store or music store. Other MP3 players only appealed to the illegal download market - that says something about iPod users. You could easily download free illegal music onto your proprietary MP3 player but vast numbers of people instead elected to reward creative industries (musicians and producers) by paying for their music.

There was a Zune market. Also there are pay-sites for MP3s and fully legal. Amazon is one of them. However question is how long Itunes will last with products like Spotify gaining force. I for one, dont buy music any more or even "steal" them from the net, because I have my Spotify which is free (with commericals, can pay 9 euros a month for non commerical version and be able to save the songs on my mobile device) and fully legal.

Besides - I can go to any website I want on a Mac and remain virus / trojan free.

Not exactly true.. far from it in fact.

Why are there successful Apple Stores in London, Glasgow and also on the continent? Why does every serious graphic design company (look at the figures for market size), photographer, video producer, artist etc use Macs?

Yes, Apple claims they are successful, but I also know that they tried to open stores in Europe once before and many of them were closed soon after because no one used them. I remember a Mac Store in Copenhagen in the 1990s.. it lasted for a year or so before it was closed. And compared to the US, the European penetration of Macs is lower. Last I looked Apple mac had over 10% penetration in the US, where as in Europe as a whole it was around 6% at best, but broken down into countries it was much more fragmented.

So why does Windows 7 come in more than one version? (ha, they killed off "starter edition") Why does Microsoft offer an exam qualification in configuring Windows?.

It is called choice on the different versions... I know the word choice is alien to Mac users.. but we do have it in the Windows world. And they did not kill off the starter edition. It is installed on most Netbooks these days.

And the exam's have nothing to do with setting up Windows, but configuring it to your needs in the enterprise segment of the market. What does Apple do.. oh yea they dont have enterprise stuff.. ups. Windows works out of the box.

You only need one version of Mac OS..... :mrgreen:

And yet you have to pay for minor upgrades... go figure. Mac OS X is 9 year old, and according to what I understand, every "new release" (like 10.1 to 10.2 and so on) costs money.

Are you kidding me? Did you not read this?

http://www.debatepolitics.com/off-t...eteeu-virus-mac-continued.html#post1059259446

Microsoft tried showing that you could do the same stuff a year or so ago if you worked in the creative industry and got a studio to produce all the artwork and design on a PC using the same software... it turned out after that the design studio used their Macs for all the colour calibration, file creation, profile handling then pushed boxes around on the layout on a PC and then went back to Macs for print handling. Laughable. If you care about the quality of your artwork-you use a computer that helps you get your artwork exactly as you want it and see it.

Again irrelevant. Not Microsoft's fault that the creative industry are use to macs and dunno how to use Windows machines. And again, the creative industry is minimal in the whole computer market.

You're better than that. The facts are out there if you look for them. I'm willing to bet you've never used a desktop or laptop Mac when surfing Flash websites.

I have but it is not the point. Steve Jobs choose to remove choice from the consumer by at first denying Adobe Flash. He is doing the same with the new moves to push 3rd party programs off the iOS platform based on morality issues or money issues. Sony Reader banned.. Amazon Kindle most likely banned next.. Playboy censored, tabloid news paper apps from outside America.. censored.. Music with "questionable" words like Stripper.. censored.

In fact, have you ever used a Mac?

I have.. had one of the first Macs out there back in the day..was way cool then. But do I use it on a daily basis? no, Macs can not do what I want to do in my daily life, since everyone I work with have... Windows machines. Plus the games I play can not be played on Macs without basically hacking the damn system and even then the performance sucks.

Flash started on Macs when Macromedia took it out of Director and made it a single application. Macromedia developed Flash on both platforms but when Adobe bought it, they focussed on the PC market. Adobe even issued their dissapointment when the iPad didn't support it - but why blame Apple because Adobe had been scr****g over Mac users for years?

Because as I said.. Steve Jobs started it. He banned it, just like he bans tons of other stuff from his products. He limits choice pure and simple. He is has created his own little kingdom and monopoly and frankly Apple should be seriously looked at by the regulators.

Quicktime didn't produce the interactive web experience that Flash was designed to. It plays video and produces flattened movies in any format you want for PC and Mac. I always have quicktime pro. My animation students have it on their machines so they can easily export their work to Youtube..... (and have it in the colours they created - not the colours another encoder chooses for them) :mrgreen:

Quicktime as I stated.. sucks donkey balls. That you constantly get reminders to install Itunes and god knows what is bloody annoying. Plus it crashed a lot on PCs last time I tried it a few years ago. Thank god there is in the windows world, open source quicktime codec that does not require Quicktime to be installed. Fun to watch Quicktime videos in Microsoft Media Player btw :)

OK, HP quietly shelved it after all the hype at original show, finally released it without harping on about battery life and all the other things Steve Balmer said it would do. If you bought one, good for you. Everyone else wanting a proper media consumption slate bought an iPad

Ipad was first and still is dominant. IPad2 has to be very special if it is to beat Andriod 3.0... have you seen the Google presentation?

Yes and that depends on an Android slate having the battery life and screen quality to match an iPod... good luck with that.

No, price will be a fact as well as marketing. Iphone still has the best screen out there and has slightly longer battery life, and yet Andriod is cleaning its clock in the smart phone market. The same will happen to the Ipad.
 

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If your choice of which computer to buy was only ever a question of technical specifications (processor speed, memory, graphics card etc) then I might agree. But it's not. Why would anyone buy a VW when there are Hyundais and Kias that go as fast, carry as many people and do better mileage AND are 2/3rds of the price? That's how retailing works. You build a brand based on a number of factors that allow you to charge a certain price for a product. That price is not always simply the total cost of all the components that go into making the product. By your logic, why would anyone buy a Sony VAIO product which, spec for spec, is always far more expensive than, say an Asus or a Packard Bell?

People buy Sony VAIO because of design and name. People buy Asus and Packard Bell because of a cost benefit is better. Point is, you have the choice. In Apple world, you do not have that choice.
 

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I boycott all things Apple. I believe if Skynet and the machine revolution ever comes it will because of Apple. Now introducing the new Iphone; Supreme overlord model.
 

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I know and I dont deny that the creative industry use Macs and have from the start.. which proves my point. The creative industry are use to Macs, just as the 95% of people on the planet are use to Windows machines and would not change. Companies need one hell of incentive to change away from their present tech.. that is why Linux or Apple Mac never has and probably never will make any impact on the business front (non server), because the cost of retraining the workers is far too high.

Again irrelevant. Not Microsoft's fault that the creative industry are use to macs and dunno how to use Windows machines. And again, the creative industry is minimal in the whole computer market.

I think I can explain it till the cows come home and you'll still think it's simply because creatives have used Macs only. Ever since Apple released boot camp - you can have a machine with both OS legally. I know there are hacks to run OSX on a traditional PC - however, those machines exist in all studios. When it comes to colour handling, artwork and everything else to do with WYSIWYG - Windows doesn't cut it. Why spend even £400 on a decent Canon digital SLR and then crap up your pictures on a windows screen? Even in photoshop - you don't get the colour reproduction from one machine to another.

It's that simple.

-- There was a Zune market.

Exactly. The zune worked better and was cheaper than an iPod, the rest of the stuff that made the iPod was missing. ;)

-- Not exactly true.. far from it in fact.

Only if I give my permission remember.

-- Yes, Apple claims they are successful, but I also know that they tried to open stores in Europe once before and many of them were closed soon after because no one used them. I remember a Mac Store in Copenhagen in the 1990s.. it lasted for a year or so before it was closed. And compared to the US, the European penetration of Macs is lower. Last I looked Apple mac had over 10% penetration in the US, where as in Europe as a whole it was around 6% at best, but broken down into countries it was much more fragmented.

Strange then that they survived (and grew) for so many years eh?

-- It is called choice on the different versions...

:lamo

-- And the exam's have nothing to do with setting up Windows, but configuring it to your needs in the enterprise segment of the market.

And you said Windows 7 doesn't need configuring earlier.......... :lamo

-- And yet you have to pay for minor upgrades... go figure. Mac OS X is 9 year old, and according to what I understand, every "new release" (like 10.1 to 10.2 and so on) costs money.

And you'd be wrong. I bought an Emac with 10.1.2 on and eventually upgraded to 10.3.9 without paying. 10.4 cost actual money.

Now I have a 20 inch iMac desktop and a Fujitsu PC tablet for portable working.

-- Steve Jobs choose to remove choice from the consumer by at first denying Adobe Flash.

The programme messed up desktop Macs as well as iPads. In the 1990's everyone tried having flash driven websites but that slowed things down. Flash became tied to Adobe's PC aims - why should a Mac HAVE to use substandard software that actually harmed your computer? :doh

-- I have.. had one of the first Macs out there back in the day..was way cool then. But do I use it on a daily basis? no, Macs can not do what I want to do in my daily life, since everyone I work with have... Windows machines. Plus the games I play can not be played on Macs without basically hacking the damn system and even then the performance sucks.

Very few Mac buyers buy them for games. :lol:

-- frankly Apple should be seriously looked at by the regulators

Why?

-- Quicktime as I stated.. sucks donkey balls. That you constantly get reminders to install Itunes and god knows what is bloody annoying. Plus it crashed a lot on PCs last time I tried it a few years ago.

It works on a mac and it doesn't do that if you change your preferences.

-- have you seen the Google presentation?
--snip--
The same will happen to the Ipad.
Yeah, when Google itself makes a slate with as good a screen and battery life, I'll take any points you have.
 

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People buy Sony VAIO because of design and name.
That's why I buy Mac. There is no better design and I trust that, as with a VW, the name means that it will never breakdown, never struggle to operate new software and never be too complicated to navigate. That's what I pay the extra for.
 
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