For or against the Trans-Pacific Trade Agreement?

[JohnWOlin]

Just as the title says. I for one am for it because of what it could potentially mean for import of American autos to countries such as South Korea and Japan.

 

[CanadaJohn]

From a purely realistic point of view, Canada is going to be part of this deal and if the US isn't, the US will be more open to Asian goods, through Canada, under NAFTA, either directly or indirectly, and American goods will not have as easy a time going in the other direction.

Time for us all to start making these trade deals work for us and stop wasting time bitching about them and wishing we were back in the 1950s.

 

[clownboy]

To be fair, I want NAFTA and CAFTA gone too.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

From the parts of the agreement we know; I am 100% against it. We know what NAFTA caused, and I honestly have no idea why any working or middle class American would be for this agreement, this agreement is essentially NAFTA on steroids.

 

[Montecresto]

Just as the title says. I for one am for it because of what it could potentially mean for import of American autos to countries such as South Korea and Japan.

Obviously we haven't seen it. But it is concerning that while the GOP doesn't trust Obama on anything, suddenly they trust him with fast track authority on this, and most democrats are steadfastly against it. Furthermore, there's 28 committees composed 85% of corporate executives and industry lobbyists. It is problematic.

 

[KevinKohler]

I think will give us another great opportunity to see that wealth trickle down. (SARCASM)

 

[a351]

As a avid supporter of free-trade, I'm not of the opinion that NAFTA and free-trade agreements in general have had a net negative effect on the world and more specifically, US economy. Trade liberalization has been wonderfully beneficial to Asia, while simultaneously keeping consumer prices low on the domestic level and building up sizable and potent consumer bases for our own products. Put simply, For.

 

[Northern Light]

Created and discussed in secret, gives the Chinese untold access to our lands, goods, jobs and resources at wholesale, and denies any future repeal by any government or democratic action.

This agreement was created by China, for China. We owe them so much frigging money in trade deficits that we are literally ready to kowtow our entire economic way of life to them.

This treaty is really the nail in the coffin for our economy, and most people don't even know about it. Neo-liberalism has destroyed everything that was once good. The globalists have won.

 

[Peter Grimm]

Great for my business. I have a lot of stuff manufactured in Asia, so any free trade with them keeps my costs low and benefits me and my family.

For it

 

[a351]

Created and discussed in secret, gives the Chinese untold access to our lands, goods, jobs and resources at wholesale, and denies any future repeal by any government or democratic action.

This agreement was created by China, for China. We owe them so much frigging money in trade deficits that we are literally ready to kowtow our entire economic way of life to them.

This treaty is really the nail in the coffin for our economy, and most people don't even know about it. Neo-liberalism has destroyed everything that was once good. The globalists have won.

:lol: Your juvenile understanding of foreign owned debt is comical. China purchasing billions worth of dollar denominated securities acts as a direct stimulus to American industry, as currency has no choice but to return to the economy whence they came. Chinese owned debt is in no way a crisis and in no way threatens our way of life. That's just unlearned fear mongering and propaganda.

 

[JohnWOlin]

From the parts of the agreement we know; I am 100% against it. We know what NAFTA caused, and I honestly have no idea why any working or middle class American would be for this agreement, this agreement is essentially NAFTA on steroids.

It's for working class and middle class Americans that know what they are doing, and for processes that patents can protect to keep them in America. It also wouldn't make logistical sense to ship out a lot of the jobs that this supposedly would ship out because of cost of freight. It could for example, bring more regional factories for certain devices (electronics) and encourage the production of hybrid cars within America rather than China because prohibitive cost are taken out.

 

[JohnWOlin]

Created and discussed in secret, gives the Chinese untold access to our lands, goods, jobs and resources at wholesale, and denies any future repeal by any government or democratic action.

This agreement was created by China, for China. We owe them so much frigging money in trade deficits that we are literally ready to kowtow our entire economic way of life to them.

This treaty is really the nail in the coffin for our economy, and most people don't even know about it. Neo-liberalism has destroyed everything that was once good. The globalists have won.

Nothing about this is true and shows you just go with the flow. China is not involved in this right now and as I understand it, even if they are USA will dictate the terms. I'd also like to point out that the terms of the agreement dictate a living wage to the asian countries meaning a lot of jobs that were shipped over there could potentially come back over here due to cost savings.

 

[Excon]

No one except those who are for big government and a world government should be for this.

Why are so many people against the TPP?

One of the major issues with the TPP is its effect on Freedom of Speech. Remember how everyone was concerned about the potential ramifications of SOPA and PIPA back when the US government was trying to crack down on “internet piracy”? Well, multiply that times a billion and then don’t run it through Congress, and you have, in a nutshell, the future effects of the TPP on the internet.

Under the guise of protecting intellectual copyrights, if the TPP goes through, the internet will change dramatically. It could turn internet service providers into watchdogs, and threaten our ability to communicate unfettered on blogs, forums, websites and social media platforms.

ISPs will be forced to monitor the content of their customers (without warrants) because it is they who will face huge liability if copyrights are “infringed” upon.

“Fair Use” policies will be restricted, existing copyrights will be greatly lengthened, and adopt criminal sanctions against those who infringe on copyrights, even without monetary motivations.

Our own Constitutional checks and balances will no longer apply. There will be no right to privacy and no due process. Webpages can be taken down based on only a complaint – proof will not be required. Innocent until proven guilty will not apply.​

The TPP for Dummies | The Daily Sheeple​

Trans-Pacific Partnership Takes Legal Authority Away from Domestic Courts

Trans-Pacific Partnership Takes Legal Authority Away from Domestic Courts​

 

[TheDemSocialist]

It's for working class and middle class Americans that know what they are doing, and for processes that patents can protect to keep them in America. It also wouldn't make logistical sense to ship out a lot of the jobs that this supposedly would ship out because of cost of freight. It could for example, bring more regional factories for certain devices (electronics) and encourage the production of hybrid cars within America rather than China because prohibitive cost are taken out.

Ahhh yes... Somehow thats just not true at all.

"Instead, the TPP looks like it will just constitute one more step toward using commercial agreements to maximize three things: (1) the damage done through global integration to the wages of most American workers; (2) the rents earned by those holding a monopoly on intellectual property claims; and (3) the influence that the preferences of global economic elites have on the policymaking of American trading partners." http://s1.epi.org/files/pdf/83872.pdf

 

[JohnWOlin]

Ahhh yes... Somehow thats just not true at all.

"Instead, the TPP looks like it will just constitute one more step toward using commercial agreements to maximize three things: (1) the damage done through global integration to the wages of most American workers; (2) the rents earned by those holding a monopoly on intellectual property claims; and (3) the influence that the preferences of global economic elites have on the policymaking of American trading partners." http://s1.epi.org/files/pdf/83872.pdf

All you have presented to me is a partisan think-tank...I'm all for research but even though I'm democrat I don't believe their own BS unless it's backed up from something unbiased or has a good counter point.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

All you have presented to me is a partisan think-tank...I'm all for research but even though I'm democrat I don't believe their own BS unless it's backed up from something unbiased or has a good counter point.

Ummmm.... You do know the Democratic Party does not have coherent position on this treaty, right? Do to dismiss this report as somehow "Democrats own BS", especially when you have offered, what?

 

[cpwill]

David Ricardo demonstrated how free trade benefited both partners centuries ago. For it.


For the claim that it was made in China by China: :lamo

 

[cpwill]

Ahhh yes... Somehow thats just not true at all.

"Instead, the TPP looks like it will just constitute one more step toward using commercial agreements to maximize three things: (1) the damage done through global integration to the wages of most American workers; (2) the rents earned by those holding a monopoly on intellectual property claims; and (3) the influence that the preferences of global economic elites have on the policymaking of American trading partners." http://s1.epi.org/files/pdf/83872.pdf

Excuse me, what is your preferred immigration policy, again?

 

[Excon]

David Ricardo demonstrated how free trade benefited both partners centuries ago. For it.

Unfortunately this isn't just about free trade.

Why are so many people against the TPP?

One of the major issues with the TPP is its effect on Freedom of Speech. Remember how everyone was concerned about the potential ramifications of SOPA and PIPA back when the US government was trying to crack down on “internet piracy”? Well, multiply that times a billion and then don’t run it through Congress, and you have, in a nutshell, the future effects of the TPP on the internet.

Under the guise of protecting intellectual copyrights, if the TPP goes through, the internet will change dramatically. It could turn internet service providers into watchdogs, and threaten our ability to communicate unfettered on blogs, forums, websites and social media platforms.

ISPs will be forced to monitor the content of their customers (without warrants) because it is they who will face huge liability if copyrights are “infringed” upon.

“Fair Use” policies will be restricted, existing copyrights will be greatly lengthened, and adopt criminal sanctions against those who infringe on copyrights, even without monetary motivations.

Our own Constitutional checks and balances will no longer apply. There will be no right to privacy and no due process. Webpages can be taken down based on only a complaint – proof will not be required. Innocent until proven guilty will not apply.​

The TPP for Dummies | The Daily Sheeple​

Trans-Pacific Partnership Takes Legal Authority Away from Domestic Courts

Trans-Pacific Partnership Takes Legal Authority Away from Domestic Courts​

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Excuse me, what is your preferred immigration policy, again?

Thats not about immigration.....

 

[DA60]

I am for all free trade agreements - providing they are actually making trade freer.

And I am totally against protectionism.

 

[cpwill]

Thats not about immigration.....

Oh yes. You just argued that we ought to adopt a protectionist policy whose intent is to protect and keep high American wages. So your position on immigration is rather pertinent.

Because my bet is that I can go find where you are in favor of immigration policy that has precisely the result you would decry from the TPP, that of driving down blue-collar wages.

 

[cpwill]

Unfortunately this isn't just about free trade.

Why are so many people against the TPP?

One of the major issues with the TPP is its effect on Freedom of Speech. Remember how everyone was concerned about the potential ramifications of SOPA and PIPA back when the US government was trying to crack down on “internet piracy”? Well, multiply that times a billion and then don’t run it through Congress, and you have, in a nutshell, the future effects of the TPP on the internet.

Under the guise of protecting intellectual copyrights, if the TPP goes through, the internet will change dramatically. It could turn internet service providers into watchdogs, and threaten our ability to communicate unfettered on blogs, forums, websites and social media platforms.

ISPs will be forced to monitor the content of their customers (without warrants) because it is they who will face huge liability if copyrights are “infringed” upon.

“Fair Use” policies will be restricted, existing copyrights will be greatly lengthened, and adopt criminal sanctions against those who infringe on copyrights, even without monetary motivations.

Our own Constitutional checks and balances will no longer apply. There will be no right to privacy and no due process. Webpages can be taken down based on only a complaint – proof will not be required. Innocent until proven guilty will not apply.​

The TPP for Dummies | The Daily Sheeple​

Trans-Pacific Partnership Takes Legal Authority Away from Domestic Courts

Trans-Pacific Partnership Takes Legal Authority Away from Domestic Courts​

:doh Copyright protection and the like is a huge boon for the American economy. It's not as if we are making our money creating cheap knock-offs of Indonesian inventions. Spare me the conspiraceh's.

 

[Excon]

:doh: Copyright protection and the like is a huge boon for the American economy. It's not as if we are making our money creating cheap knock-offs of Indonesian inventions. Spare me the conspiraceh's.

This isn't conspiracy.
You thinking it is, is nonsense.
This has far greater reach than simply free trade.

I am sorry you do not understand that.

And undermining national sovereignty is nothing to sneeze at.

 

[Carjosse]

:doh: Copyright protection and the like is a huge boon for the American economy. It's not as if we are making our money creating cheap knock-offs of Indonesian inventions. Spare me the conspiraceh's.

Effective copyright is a boon for the American economy, what we have now is not effective copyright and it will only be made worse by the TPP. Instead of trying to crackdown on movie pirates maybe focus should be shifted to the 100s of billions of dollars lost due to stolen intellectual property by Chinese companies mainly corporate espionage or corruption.