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For His Latest Trick, John Oliver Forgives $15 Million in Medical Debt

apdst said:
1. Create an LLC

2. Loan $15 million to the LLC.

3. The LLC doesn't pay back the loan, because obviously the LLC doesn't intend to collect on any of the debts.

4. Wellah! A $15 million loss that can be written off.
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So right off, you're basically admitting you've not watched the video or read anything on it and are just spouting things to spout them.

Note for you....the $15 million in Medical Debt did not cost him $15 million.
 
Thoreau72 said:
Even if that tortured logic were true, which it's not, as you cry about the government being stiffed, those who were wheeling around wheelbarrows full of US currency in shrink-wrapped C-notes under Paul Bremer's "supervision" are today enjoying their stolen wealth.

Cry me a river APDST, cry me a river.

Way to go John Oliver, putting his money where his mouth is. :applaud
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Forgiven debt normally causes the debtor to pay tax on the write off, but medical debt is excempted.

John Oliver buys/forgives 25 million in deb; but is the forgiveness taxable?

I do believe, however, that his CARP organization has a $60,000 tax writeoff due to them.
 
Thoreau72 said:
Isn't that the "statutory debt" Oliver mentioned in his spiel?
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statutory debt is debt owed to the government(any level) or court. I don't have his transcript handy to understand the context of his statement around statutory debt, but the debtor(one of the 9000) should be exempt from paying taxes on their income "gains" from the debt forgiveness.
 
apdst said:
1. Create an LLC

2. Loan $15 million to the LLC.

3. The LLC doesn't pay back the loan, because obviously the LLC doesn't intend to collect on any of the debts.

4. Wellah! A $15 million loss that can be written off.
Click to expand...

apdst said:
Explain.
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First and most importantly we're not talking $15mil, we're talking $60,000 which is what he bought the uncollectible debt for.

Second if one loaned $15mil to an LLC and then didn't pay it back that in and of itself wouldn't create a tax loss. First one would have to address the ability of the LLC to pay it back and then you have the related party issues to deal with if it couldn't pay it back.

That being said lets assume we're dealing with writing off the $60k that was actually put into the LLC to purchase the uncollectible debts. Was the LLC operating as a business? Nope as the intent was never to collect the debt but to forgive them, so no trade and business, so no deducting the $60k, it will be treated as a gift and non-deductible.

Can Mr Oliver claim a charitable deduction for the gift? Sorry but gifts to individuals are not deductible and don't qualify as charitable deductions under the tax code.

Wellah, Mr. Oliver did a really nice thing with no tax benefit to himself.

But... Mr. Oliver (or HBO) can probably write the $60k off as an ordinary business expense as part of the cost of producing the segment.
 
faithful_servant said:
..and there's this little know gov't funded program that reimburses medical care providers and the agencies that collect their debts when they write off debts. My guess is that Oliver did little more than take advantage of this program and the American people paid that bill.
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He said in the piece exactly what they were doing... how and what, I dont know, and dont really care. Those people should never have had that medical debt in the first place... the whole industry is corrupt.
 
apdst said:
Can anybody say, "tax deduction"? John Oliver just stiffed the government for 15 million bucks.
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No, he didn't. He only paid about $60,000 dollars for that $15 million of debt. it exposes that what we are told we owe is actually much greater than what would be accepted. Best to negotiate when dealing with debt. When I get a medical bill for service not covered by my insurance, I'll only pay part of it because I've been told by those in the business that most doctors have a policy that if a patient has made a reasonable attempt to pay the bill, they won't send it to a collection agency.
 
apdst said:
Can anybody say, "tax deduction"? John Oliver just stiffed the government for 15 million bucks.
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People with forgiven debts (over a certain amount, I believe) are still liable as the forgiven debt is considered income. Technically, theoretically, at least.
 
radcen said:
Part of me is impressed about this, and part of me is not impressed that he felt the need to be so public about it. I feel like he's stroking his own ego as much or more than any other motivation.
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How else can you point out a massive injustice if not being very public about it? Is he stroking his own ego?.. well he is British, so.. doubt it. Had he been an American, then sure.. but I certainly dont see him as the type (based on his previous work) to be stroking his own ego.
 
apdst said:
1. Create an LLC

2. Loan $15 million to the LLC.

3. The LLC doesn't pay back the loan, because obviously the LLC doesn't intend to collect on any of the debts.

4. Wellah! A $15 million loss that can be written off.
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Well, first off that's not how corporate taxes work.

Second, what you're alleging is called fraud. A crime for which you have no evidence for.

Finally, the word is voila. It's French. Literal translation "see there."
 
PeteEU said:
He said in the piece exactly what they were doing... how and what, I dont know, and dont really care. Those people should never have had that medical debt in the first place... the whole industry is corrupt.
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The billing side of the medical/insurance most certainly is and the ACA exacerbated that substantially. What people don't realize about ins. cos. is that they make money based on throughput, not cost/expense. What they do is they are set up to make a certain % (I think that about 3% is the norm) off of every dollar that goes through their hands. Increases in payments means more dollars going through their hands(since they simply push those costs onto the policy holders) and more money in their pockets. The ins. cos. could be the people keeping medical costs reigned in, but they have become the engine that drives cost increases.

As far as the dumb idea that they should have never had that debt in the first place... Paying people well for services is a big part of what gets them good service. We pay our healthcare professionals better than anyone else (my brother-in-law is an ER nurse working at Stanford Medical and he makes $250K a year, of course, he's pretty close to being the top ER nurse in the country), so there is a large portion of the costs going to adequately paying these folks for their work. Additionally cutting these folks pay simply pushes more people out of this field and reduces teh number of people coming into the field, leading to a worsening of care.
Professional Nurse Average Salary Income - International Comparison
Physiotherapist Average Salary Income - International Comparison
General Physician Average Salary Income - International Comparison
Auxiliary Nurse Average Salary Income - International Comparison
Dentist Average Salary Income - International Comparison

Running the money through the gov't isn't any better than running it through the ins cos., since the way our gov't works, the more money an agency spends, the more it gets to spend. Give a gov't agency a budget and if they consistently come in under budget, they get their budget cut, so they make sure that they spend all they can and with built-in spending increases, those budgets continue to grow. I'm 100% in favor of having a safety net for those who can't pay (like the existing program that allows medical care providers to write off debt and get reimbursed for it) and I'd love to see a gov't funded program that pays for the education costs of healthcare workers (with a required term of service in under-served areas to re-pay that debt) to get us more healthcare workers and allow market competition to help drive down costs.
 
ellesdee said:
No, he didn't. He only paid about $60,000 dollars for that $15 million of debt. it exposes that what we are told we owe is actually much greater than what would be accepted. Best to negotiate when dealing with debt. When I get a medical bill for service not covered by my insurance, I'll only pay part of it because I've been told by those in the business that most doctors have a policy that if a patient has made a reasonable attempt to pay the bill, they won't send it to a collection agency.
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Its no different than trying to sell your Spongebob Squarepants rookie card. Its only worth as much as someone is willing to pay for it.

Getting pennies on the dollar for what you are owed is infinitely worth more than IOU piece of paper. If you try hard enough, you may get the full amount or a combination of funds+collateral. But settleing for less may end up being more beneficial in the long run.
 
Samhain said:
Its no different than trying to sell your Spongebob Squarepants rookie card. Its only worth as much as someone is willing to pay for it.

Getting pennies on the dollar for what you are owed is infinitely worth more than IOU piece of paper. If you try hard enough, you may get the full amount or a combination of funds+collateral. But settleing for less may end up being more beneficial in the long run.
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Absolutely correct, so I treat my debt the same way a collector would. I offer as little as I think I can reasonably get away with, and wait to see how the debtor reacts. If they send another bill, I'll pay a little more, emphasis on little.

A lot of people don't realize this, me included until it was pointed out to me by a professional, so it's important to make this information more well-known.
 
ellesdee said:
Absolutely correct, so I treat my debt the same way a collector would. I offer as little as I think I can reasonably get away with, and wait to see how the debtor reacts. If they send another bill, I'll pay a little more, emphasis on little.

A lot of people don't realize this, me included until it was pointed out to me by a professional, so it's important to make this information more well-known.
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So you borrow money but refuse to pay it back in full?
 
Mason66 said:
So you borrow money but refuse to pay it back in full?
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I didn't say I refuse anything. I pay a little at a time, but I've never had a debtor insist on the entire amount, and I've been told that they never actually expect to get the entire amount, even when it's sent to an insurance company (I'm talking specifically about medical debt). A some point, they always stop sending the bill before it's completely paid off.
 
apdst said:
Can anybody say, "tax deduction"? John Oliver just stiffed the government for 15 million bucks.
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You don't have a role in doing your own taxes. Do you?
 
apdst said:
1. Create an LLC

2. Loan $15 million to the LLC.

3. The LLC doesn't pay back the loan, because obviously the LLC doesn't intend to collect on any of the debts.

4. Wellah! A $15 million loss that can be written off.
Click to expand...

Winchester said:
First and most importantly we're not talking $15mil, we're talking $60,000 which is what he bought the uncollectible debt for.

Second if one loaned $15mil to an LLC and then didn't pay it back that in and of itself wouldn't create a tax loss. First one would have to address the ability of the LLC to pay it back and then you have the related party issues to deal with if it couldn't pay it back.

That being said lets assume we're dealing with writing off the $60k that was actually put into the LLC to purchase the uncollectible debts. Was the LLC operating as a business? Nope as the intent was never to collect the debt but to forgive them, so no trade and business, so no deducting the $60k, it will be treated as a gift and non-deductible.

Can Mr Oliver claim a charitable deduction for the gift? Sorry but gifts to individuals are not deductible and don't qualify as charitable deductions under the tax code.

Wellah, Mr. Oliver did a really nice thing with no tax benefit to himself.

But... Mr. Oliver (or HBO) can probably write the $60k off as an ordinary business expense as part of the cost of producing the segment.
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Guys, it's voilà.
 
Winchester said:
Yeah I know, I was just formatting my response to match apdst... and bug you. :2razz:
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Why would it bug me? I'm more bugged out by the fact that a cajun got it wrong.
 
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