Florida limits professor tenure, citing ‘indoctrination’ concerns

[TheParser]

This thread reminds me of attempts to remove tenure for public school teachers (elementary, middle, and high).

Because some students do poorly in class, some activists attribute those students' poor performance to incompetent teachers.

Fortunately, some states still have strong teacher unions that are fighting this movement.

 

[Chomsky]

Florida has become draconian.

I've long been a champion of eliminating tenure. There are other ways to ensure job security for faculty. One of the biggest weaknesses for tenure is that a university invests in employees for 5-7 years and then fires those who don't acquire tenure (which is a politically fraught process) and starts anew recruiting for a new employee and waiting for that person to get up to speed. Some of those fired deserve it; others are excellent teachers. In my 30 yr career in higher ed at 2 universities, I've seen more faculty rest on their laurels after achieving tenure than I've seen them retain their zeal for teaching. Research becomes their focus, TAs take on the task of teaching, and students do not get the advantage of working with the subject matter expert until their jr/sr year if at all (this varies somewhat depending on the size of the school).

It took me two years to fire a tenured professor with a long history of sexual harassment. The dept. dean and the provost fought me on the firing because "it would damage his reputation and he's tenured" as though achieving tenure raised a person to the level of a god. No thought given to the hit the university's reputation took because it protected a predator for so long. His tenure took precedence over human decency. That is just one example of how tenure goes awry,

I would expect there would be a clause allowing removal in instances like criminal complaint or sexual harassments.

 

[Chomsky]

This thread reminds me of attempts to remove tenure for public school teachers (elementary, middle, and high).

Because some students do poorly in class, some activists attribute those students' poor performance to incompetent teachers.

Fortunately, some states still have strong teacher unions that are fighting this movement.

I must admit, while I support tenure at the university level, I see no reason for it at these levels.

 

[Goshin]

Could you be mischaracterizing or misunderstanding the instructor's intent?

Recently students have become aware universities are forcing instructors to grade on a specific distribution of grades. IOW instructors must give-out so many A's, So many B's, etc.

This instructor may be warning the class they will be individually held accountable by their specific performance in relation to the required material, not to their ranking among their class peers, and not dependent upon a distribution curve saving them.

If so, then I applaud the instructor.

This was 40 years ago, roughly. None of this modern participation trophy nonsense.

 

[MaryP]

Could you be mischaracterizing or misunderstanding the instructor's intent?

Recently students have become aware universities are forcing instructors to grade on a specific distribution of grades. IOW instructors must give-out so many A's, So many B's, etc.

This instructor may be warning the class they will be individually held accountable by their specific performance in relation to the required material, not to their ranking among their class peers, and not dependent upon a distribution curve saving them.

If so, then I applaud the instructor.

Forced to grade on a curve? Wow. I remember one prof doing that once when the whole class bombed a test so bad.

 

[Mustachio]

--

The DeSantis culture attacks just keep on coming . . .

Oh hi class, this is your bran new teacher, it's Sue Ellen, Rick said come on down to the school now because they had those transes and a gay or two teaching. Ask me why and I'd need to be in a lightbulb factory to get an idea I tell you, why I never. Ricky says "sue ellen, folks like you need to be teaching them young uns to come up right" so I says ricky, hold your horses now because I'm still looking for that half back of virginia slims but I find em so then I'm coming back and I don't say nothing so I'm just here now. I guess it's math and sex-u-all edacashon first and maybe fore most but not for all so get on out if you learnt the woke way. Not in this century, and none of the CRTV either I hated that whole thing since the Jodi Arias trial and now it's in the math books. Why I never! I ain't scared of no lawsuit, sue ain't just my middle name it's my first, Sue Ellen Sue Ellenson. Named after all the grams I tell them, so open them books to page nineteen which look like a one then a P, no spaces, and go to that question after the one there. You'll see I crossed it out because it's got to be the CRT, nothing but X Y and equal. I guess that's for biology class, right? Tell mom Sue Ellen said ya'll can use that one. Question now should be this: if you have one adam and one eve what do you get? Nobody answer that one it's supposed to say a man and woman make this world like the good book told us, and you can dance the jitterbug left foot forward and call it something else but it ain't, it's the same song and dance now. The sex is the important thing, because soon you'll be finding a good man, and listen here because this one knows how to pin down a prince. Lauren and I'd go down and bowl once a week, that's right, once a week and a man he'll come and he'll show you who he is if you know what I mean! Try that shoe on for size why don't ya? Go be boys, boys, and girls, you come with me and let's find a good tuna melt because there's a disney movie everywhere these days and something gotta be burnt. If you seen my virginia slims that's an A for you all

 

[Helix]

His real danger, over Trump's, is he's extremely well educated and intelligent, and IMO has the potential to more efficiently & effectively implement legislation or orders.

Yeah, he's basically Tweety with the ability to force an agenda.

 

[Nickyjo]

That I can't speak to, but I do know DeSantis is doing this right now, for political reasons at that, and it's wrong.

Seems like DeSantis is running for prez on a Thought Police platform. I assume the GOP primaries will come down to Donald wannabe’s vs normal GOP.

 

[Plasmaball]

I must admit, while I support tenure at the university level, I see no reason for it at these levels.

Don't listen to him. 3 minute Google search will show you how tenure works in public and its not how he is describing

 

[Mr Person]

Luddites 2.0

****ing moron scum.

 

[Argent]

normal GOP

This strikes me as an oxymoron.

 

[Mr Person]

Sounds vaguely familiar; haven't many right leaning professors or those not sufficiently woke or those that said some non-woke comment in a post fifteen years ago being denied tenure or have their tenure revoked? The left has got so used to screwing over right leaners but it's a different story when conservatives fight back.

Everyone who does not think every single thing you think and/or who thinks something other than you about even one thing is a mortal enemy, yes? And you can do anything horrible, stupid, or evil to anyone you want just to stick it to them and it's justified because they don't think exactly like you, yes?

Of course, you're just trolling. That's all you do here. So this is more of a PSA. But these Trumpists, man, they do everything they accuse others of and they do it way more than any accused group.

 

[Argent]

I would expect there would be a clause allowing removal in instances like criminal complaint or sexual harassments.

Clauses are useless unless you have someone to enforce them. Coverup is the primary strategy used.

 

[Lovebug]

Ah. Well have at it then.


This really happened:

Professor walks into class my first day of college. This is his opening monologue:

"To be clear: I am tenured. That means I cannot be fired.
If you pass this course, I get paid. If you don't pass this course, I get paid.
Therefore I don't give a shit if you pass or not. That's your problem."

Jerk.

I had one like that. First impression wasn't a good one. She surprised us though, really wanted us to learn.

 

[Argent]

I do question the motives of parents who don't want age-appropriate sex ed taught to their minors. Exactly what are these parents trying to cover up?

Ah. Well have at it then.


This really happened:

Professor walks into class my first day of college. This is his opening monologue:

"To be clear: I am tenured. That means I cannot be fired.
If you pass this course, I get paid. If you don't pass this course, I get paid.
Therefore I don't give a shit if you pass or not. That's your problem."

Jerk.

I heard that a few times also. The subtext is usually: Do the work, pass the class. Don't do the work, fail the class.
It's usually meant to discourage whiney students who don't read the syllabus, claim they didn't get the syllabus, and fail the exams from lodging complaints against the prof when they fail or get a bad grade and also to remind them they are adults and responsible for their own behavior.

 

[Captain Adverse]

Florida limits professor tenure, citing ‘indoctrination’ concerns

A roundup of Florida education news from around the state

www.tampabay.com

--

Right on the heels of the Disney takeover, comes news of yet another cultural attack by DeSantis & his Republican legislature.



I think we can assume a guy with a Yale B.A. and a Harvard J.D., is fully aware and cognizant the specific intent & purpose of university tenure - its raison d'etre - is to explicitly not hold tenured profs 'accountable'. Rather, it is to allow them intellectual freedom. Unabashed, untethered, intellectual freedom.

So, why then would DeSantis do this?

Obviously, for the same reason he went after Disney, the same way he went after kids' school books, the same way he's now going after university education. He seems hell-bent on indoctrinating the citizens of his state to his & his party's personal ideologies. And the more he's allowed to impress his will upon the good citizens of Florida, the more brazen & assertive he appears to become.

Florida's regressing before our eyes, my friends. This would be our 'future', should DeSantis ever become our nation's leader.

--

The DeSantis culture attacks just keep on coming . . .

I'm curious. Have you any experience teaching at College/University levels?

While working on a graduate degree at a California university, I had the opportunity to work as a teaching assistant in the Social Sciences Dept.

In fact, I was responsible for not only grading papers, and counseling students, I was often tasked with conducting classes.

Politics is rife in the Academic fields, with competition for tenure, and once getting tenure, competition for status in the Dept.'s.

This was back in the days prior to the current levels of "Wokeness," but even back then we had many "student activists" and "extreme" Liberal faculty members.

There are so many issues with Academia these days, with the only change being (IMO) the shift even further Left after the advent of Student Loan programs and the swelling of "academic majors" enabled thereby.

While I agree with your understanding of the purpose of tenure, it remains a two-edged sword.

This because while it is good for instructors whose goal is simply to educate, it creates a nightmare thanks to those whose goal is to indoctrinate.

 

[Argent]

@Phys251 I accidentally included a quote from you in post #40. I have no idea how I did that. Sorry.

 

[Bullseye]

Everyone who does not think every single thing you think and/or who thinks something other than you about even one thing is a mortal enemy, yes?

Nope, that's you guys credo.

And you can do anything horrible, stupid, or evil to anyone you want just to stick it to them and it's justified because they don't think exactly like you, yes?

Again, you're confused - you're spouting from the LW Catechism

Of course, you're just trolling. That's all you do here. So this is more of a PSA. But these Trumpists, man, they do everything they accuse others of and they do it way more than any accused group.

And, even more LW jabberwocky. Ironic you don't see a perfect image of yourself in this post because everyone else does.

 

[Bullseye]

Agreed.

The left has gotten so used to being in power and unquestioned, i.e. academia, at the slightest pushback, getting a small taste of what they've been dishing out, they squeal like stuck piglets.

How many conservatives are there in the university's sociology department? Talk about a lack of tolerance and a lack of 'diversity'.

Not many. Remember a few years ago when a peaceful LW professor at UC Berkeley beat a kid handing our conservative literature with a bike chain? Classic LW debating style.

 

[bongsaway]

It's extremely difficult to take away tenure.

But you notice a republican governor is sure going to try. This guy is just like trump, he works on spite.

 

[eohrnberger]

Not many. Remember a few years ago when a peaceful LW professor at UC Berkeley beat a kid handing our conservative literature with a bike chain? Classic LW debating style.

Don't recall specifically, but wouldn't doubt it for a second.

When the left accuses others of being violent, it is projection, because that's what they themselves are guilty of. This has been shown to be true so often that it's become a truism.

When the left accuses others of something, the first thing I look for is when and where the left has done the same, and I've never not found it. Go figure.

This furthers itself to not believe or trust a single word from the left, a well earned and well proven initial skeptical position.

 

[nota bene]

If this was private business you guys would flip your ever loving shit over this, but since it's education and clearly you all hate education you are OK with it.

I hate what this country is becoming because half of it is being led by ****ing morons amd the other half too stupid to combat them.

And look at you failing to profit from your own education, not even able to count. I am just one person, not "you guys."

If you hate what this country is becoming, look to yourself and how you condemn the entire nation as "****ing morons" and those "too stupid to combat them." Be part of the solution rather than contributing to the problems.

For the record, and in case you were unable to discern this from what I've posted on this thread, I myself am an academic and understand tenure from the inside looking out rather than from the outside looking in.

 

[nota bene]

But one reason my hair turned gray long before it should have. Listening to dept. faculty diss each other because they disagreed with either the subject or content of their colleagues' work was like watching toddlers fight over the last cookie. Meanwhile enrollment in their classes dropped.

Exactly like that--whiny, bratty toddlers, LOL.

 

[nota bene]

Not many. Remember a few years ago when a peaceful LW professor at UC Berkeley beat a kid handing our conservative literature with a bike chain? Classic LW debating style.

He wasn't a prof, only an adjunct lecturer, and as I recall, he lost the gig because of this.

 

[Simpletruther]

Florida limits professor tenure, citing ‘indoctrination’ concerns

A roundup of Florida education news from around the state

www.tampabay.com

--

Right on the heels of the Disney takeover, comes news of yet another cultural attack by DeSantis & his Republican legislature.



I think we can assume a guy with a Yale B.A. and a Harvard J.D., is fully aware and cognizant the specific intent & purpose of university tenure - its raison d'etre - is to explicitly not hold tenured profs 'accountable'. Rather, it is to allow them intellectual freedom. Unabashed, untethered, intellectual freedom.

So, why then would DeSantis do this?

Obviously, for the same reason he went after Disney, the same way he went after kids' school books, the same way he's now going after university education. He seems hell-bent on indoctrinating the citizens of his state to his & his party's personal ideologies. And the more he's allowed to impress his will upon the good citizens of Florida, the more brazen & assertive he appears to become.

Florida's regressing before our eyes, my friends. This would be our 'future', should DeSantis ever become our nation's leader.

--

The DeSantis culture attacks just keep on coming . . .

Tenure is the working very well then. As conservatives have to hide in academia now days. There is a rank bias that suppress their point of view on many topics. And even get them in trouble.