Flags burn in celebration

[Deegan]

I'm comparing the company the US would keep by instituting a flag desacration amendment.

No one said they were aliens to society..............they are not radical about everything, and to try to make that comparison, that's not only ridiculous, it's cruel, and if I have to explain that...................damn you!

 

[shuku]

Why can't people accept that a flag is a social construct? There is nothing seperating it from a door mat other than history of people using it as a symbol. Personally, I don't see a need to burn any flags. A flag burner is not going to disagree with everything about a country; the United States is far to o complicated to be summed into a piece of fabric, so stop treating the piece of fabric as if it represented a whole country. I disagree with most people in this country on most debatable things: religion, politics, morals. However, I can't say I hate the country, because I don't hate the people I disagree with. And even if I did, the flag woundn't represent them. As far as these analogies are going, it's illogical to compare events of destroying public property and life to destruction of personal property. Even copyright doesn't expend so far as to prevent destruction of copyrighted material. The biggest part of this argument is that this form of expression does not hurt anybody except for those who allow their feelings to be hurt. Don't cling to a symbol as a method of patriotism. They are only false idols created to oversimplfy ideas.

While I usually do not endorse use of the slippery slope argument, this is the case that I make the exception that keep me from a straight rule.

What happens when I draw a picture of an american flag with crayons and burn that? Heck, I'll make an MSpaint of the flag, save it to a floppy, and torch that. I'd like to know more of the limitations to this proposed amendment. There are plenty of symbols of america, why do flags get the special treatment? I might support a ban on wasting apple pies, or lighting off firecrackers on days other than the 4th of july.

Besides, this amendment would seriously hamper my American flag sacrifices to the spaghetti monster.

 

[Hoot]

The ones who did not support the flag burning amendment were the ones who displayed true courage, and true understanding of the ideals of America.

The false patriotism of those who believe we should make big brother just a little bit bigger, by taking away another one of our rights, are insulting the memory of every soldier who fought and died for our flag.

 

[jamesrage]

I'm comparing the company the US would keep by instituting a flag desacration amendment.

We have religion in this country are we like Iran,we have a big military are we like North Korea,Our country resides on the north American continent are we like Cuba,We are a large nation are we like China?I heard somewhere that Hitler was a family man, does that make all good family men like Hitler?

 

[Calm2Chaos]

No man, not at all.

This is that **** I was talking to you about earlier, the rational choice model. People make the decision over whether to use violence, non violence, or both (in this case, to what degree they use each) based on the utility they require, and the cost and utility of violence vs. non violence.

Flag burning is non-violent, and if flag burning provides the utility that you require, then this will prevent you from using violence. Now take flag burning off the table, and you're removing utility from non violence, and thus making violence more attractive.

In other words, people are going to protest. There are people who don't like things, even some things we pretty universally think of as good. Now they can either express their discontent non-violently, as in burning a flag, or they can be stifled, go batshit crazy, and blow up a building. You see my point?

So what your saying is that the flag burning is whats keeping them from getting violent? That this is there outlet instead of violence?

First off I think that if this is what it takes for you to remain civil then these people have other major problems and should be held for care in a state run facility. If the only way for you to supress your anger or violence is destruction... then you have a problem. Secondly, I have yet to see many protesters get violent. They do however get destructive. There in a large group, and they protest by destroying private property and being a nuisance to the general public.

I understand the "right" to burn a flag in protest, although I don't agree with it. I think when your protests are offensive it does you no favors. ANd I think this form of protest is offensive to many people. To burn flags on 4th of july is just aggitation not protest, and as the title says "Celebration". Maybe we should inact a law regaurding burning a flag in celbration. There doing it because they can, not to send a message.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

Why can't people accept that a flag is a social construct? There is nothing seperating it from a door mat other than history of people using it as a symbol. Personally, I don't see a need to burn any flags. A flag burner is not going to disagree with everything about a country; the United States is far to o complicated to be summed into a piece of fabric, so stop treating the piece of fabric as if it represented a whole country. I disagree with most people in this country on most debatable things: religion, politics, morals. However, I can't say I hate the country, because I don't hate the people I disagree with. And even if I did, the flag woundn't represent them. As far as these analogies are going, it's illogical to compare events of destroying public property and life to destruction of personal property. Even copyright doesn't expend so far as to prevent destruction of copyrighted material. The biggest part of this argument is that this form of expression does not hurt anybody except for those who allow their feelings to be hurt. Don't cling to a symbol as a method of patriotism. They are only false idols created to oversimplfy ideas.

While I usually do not endorse use of the slippery slope argument, this is the case that I make the exception that keep me from a straight rule.

What happens when I draw a picture of an american flag with crayons and burn that? Heck, I'll make an MSpaint of the flag, save it to a floppy, and torch that. I'd like to know more of the limitations to this proposed amendment. There are plenty of symbols of america, why do flags get the special treatment? I might support a ban on wasting apple pies, or lighting off firecrackers on days other than the 4th of july.

Besides, this amendment would seriously hamper my American flag sacrifices to the spaghetti monster.

So any form of protest is ok as long as there is no direct threat to another person, there are no boundaries?

 

[Calm2Chaos]

The ones who did not support the flag burning amendment were the ones who displayed true courage, and true understanding of the ideals of America.

The false patriotism of those who believe we should make big brother just a little bit bigger, by taking away another one of our rights, are insulting the memory of every soldier who fought and died for our flag.

I'm sure all the soldiers that died would love to see how people are destroying the symbol of the country they died for.......As many current and former military people that I know... i can't think of any that think burning the flag is acceptable. It is however legal so thems the brakes. To fight for something and then have some Greasy a$$ do nothing protester piss all over the symbol used to represent it......

The flag is just a symbol. But it's a symbol that banded this country together for many years. Now a select few want to use it as the terrorist and others of that ilk do as a tool to tear things apart.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

The problem with how your reacting to the population is your doing it on a micro basis. You can hold an individual accountable, but you cannot hold a society. A society is like a machine, and depending on how its built, its culture being that, you put in a certain input, and you get a certain output.

Using your line of thinking I suspect banning flag burning will cause a far more drammatic decline in violence not by the protestors but against them, just a thought.