Five GIs investigated over killing of Iraqi family (1 Viewer)

[aps]

Jim Miklaszewski was on Hardball today. The soldiers being investigated are from the same unit as the two men who were kidnapped and brutally killed. He said that the information prompting this investigation came out during a counseling session for the unit as a result of the brutal killing of the two soldiers. Apparently, one of them reported the incident during the counseling session, and another soldier essentially corroborated it. Thus, an investigation was initiated.

Five GIs investigated over killing of Iraqi family
Woman was allegedly raped before she and her family were killed

MSNBC staff and news service reports
Updated: 2:03 p.m. ET June 30, 2006

BEIJI, Iraq - Five U.S. Army soldiers are being investigated for allegedly killing a family of four in Iraq, the U.S. military said Friday.

The soldiers allegedly first raped a female member of the family, then burned the body in the March incident, an official said on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the case.

Maj. Gen. James Thurman, commander of coalition troops in Baghdad, ordered the criminal investigation into the alleged killings in Mahmoudiyah, south of Baghdad, the U.S. command said in a statement.

"On June 23, two soldiers reported alleged coalition force involvement in their deaths," the statement said. "A preliminary inquiry ... found sufficient information existed to recommend a criminal investigation into the incident." . . .

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13630952/

 

[mpg]

I wonder if anyone will get executed. They said that one of them already confessed. He'll probably testify against the others.

 

[26 X World Champs]

Jim Miklaszewski was on Hardball today. The soldiers being investigated are from the same unit as the two men who were kidnapped and brutally killed. He said that the information prompting this investigation came out during a counseling session for the unit as a result of the brutal killing of the two soldiers. Apparently, one of them reported the incident during the counseling session, and another soldier essentially corroborated it. Thus, an investigation was initiated.

If this is true it is one nightmare story, again! Supposedly they stalked this woman, raped her and than killed her and her family including a young child.

I also heard that there's at least one confession too. The investigation was announced by the US Military in Iraq so this is not unsubstantiated rumor. Naturally they are all innocent until proven guilty but this sounds bad....

BTW - How come those of you who are always so adamant about innocent until proven guilty do not give the same consideration to the prisoners at Gitmo?

 

[jamesrage]

I'll wait until there is actually a conviction.I think it is unfair to our men in uniform to immidiatly paint them as guilty when no one has been found guilty.

 

[Navy Pride]

They also said no charges have been filed yet..........I will give our troops the benefit of a doubt until that happens....

 

[Alastor]

I don't see "charges being filed" as the threshold. Often in times of war people are not charged with crimes because the powers that be don't want a long and public trial (see Abu Ghraib for details).

Ordinarily I'd be a skeptic until I saw some convincing evidence, but in this case we have two different soldiers from the same unit telling corroberating stories, and if there is a confession from someone, that's... Well it's compelling.

For now, I'll wait for more news on it... But Champs raised a good point; it's pretty bad news. Even if it's a big mistake many in the region will be convinced it was a cover-up. This is especially true because of the things we did try to cover up or lie about and got busted on.

So now they (our enemies) get the benefit of using our own track record against us and saying, "Hey, they're lying again! It's another cover up!" And of course that statement (whether accurate or not) resonates in the region.

I know this sounds harsh, but it's the reality of realpolitik too...

I hope these five GIs actually did do it - and that we nail them to the Holy Cross.

That way innocent soldiers don't get blamed for something, and we have an opportunity to show the world that once in a blue moon we really do the right thing instead of just talk about it.

In this instance the worst-case scenario might actually be the best-case scenario.

Twisted, huh?

 

[aps]

I'll wait until there is actually a conviction.I think it is unfair to our men in uniform to immidiatly paint them as guilty when no one has been found guilty.

Well, james, considering that it is the military who initiated the investigation, you might want to contact them and let them know that you don't appreciate their leaking this story.

Melanie Morgan was on Hardball yesterday and essentially accused the left of coming out with this story. Excuse me? Al Sharpton laughed at her, pointing out that it was the military who came out with this story--not the left.

 

[scottyz]

Well, james, considering that it is the military who initiated the investigation, you might want to contact them and let them know that you don't appreciate their leaking this story.

Melanie Morgan was on Hardball yesterday and essentially accused the left of coming out with this story. Excuse me? Al Sharpton laughed at her, pointing out that it was the military who came out with this story--not the left.

Nah, the left wing media forced the soldier to confess and started the military investigation for the military...

So does this mean that the killing of those two soldiers was revenge for this incident?

 

[Alastor]

So does this mean that the killing of those two soldiers was revenge for this incident?

That's my understanding of it. Or at least that some of the soldiers in the unit felt it might have been the motive, and thus confessed their crime.

 

[Kelzie]

That's my understanding of it. Or at least that some of the soldiers in the unit felt it might have been the motive, and thus confessed their crime.

I was under the impression that these murders were believed to be sectarian killings until the soldiers confessed.

 

[Alastor]

I was under the impression that these murders were believed to be sectarian killings until the soldiers confessed.

I think we have a misunderstanding here.

Some of the higher ups (most of them if I read right) thought that the original rape and murder of the girl and her family were an act of sectarian violence.

In reality (if we're to believe the two soldiers who spilled their guts) that was not the case. Our guys raped and killed that girl, and some of her family as well.

When the two soldiers from this unit were killed later though, those who knew that the rape and murder were the result of US soldiers felt that this attack was in retaliation for the rape and murder of the girl and her family.

I think that originally our government thought the rape and murder of the girl and her family was the result of sectarian violence.

What Scotty's asking about is whether or not the two soldiers being killed was an act of retaliation on the part of the local civilians. I'd tend to agree that it appears to be the case.

 

[Kelzie]

I think we have a misunderstanding here.

Some of the higher ups (most of them if I read right) thought that the original rape and murder of the girl and her family were an act of sectarian violence.

In reality (if we're to believe the two soldiers who spilled their guts) that was not the case. Our guys raped and killed that girl, and some of her family as well.

When the two soldiers from this unit were killed later though, those who knew that the rape and murder were the result of US soldiers felt that this attack was in retaliation for the rape and murder of the girl and her family.

I think that originally our government thought the rape and murder of the girl and her family was the result of sectarian violence.

What Scotty's asking about is whether or not the two soldiers being killed was an act of retaliation on the part of the local civilians. I'd tend to agree that it appears to be the case.

I haven't read anything that suggests the two later killings were revenge for the rape/murders. Do you have a source I could read?

 

[Alastor]

I haven't read anything that suggests the two later killings were revenge for the rape/murders. Do you have a source I could read?

Sure, Kelzie.

This is from the link to the MSN article provided at the beginning of the thread:

Guilt spurs revelation
The military has said one and possibly both of the slain soldiers were tortured and beheaded. The official said the mutilation of the slain soldiers stirred feelings of guilt and led at least one member of the platoon to reveal the rape-slaying on June 22.

The implication being that he (the fellow revealing the rape-slaying) felt the rape and murder of the girl and her family had provoked the attacks.

I've also heard implicit statements from other officials via other news articles. But this one fits the bill I think. I can dig more up if you'd like though. But this is essentially the type of statement I've read that gives me that impression.

 

[Kelzie]

Sure, Kelzie.

This is from the link to the MSN article provided at the beginning of the thread:



The implication being that he (the fellow revealing the rape-slaying) felt the rape and murder of the girl and her family had provoked the attacks.

I've also heard implicit statements from other officials via other news articles. But this one fits the bill I think. I can dig more up if you'd like though. But this is essentially the type of statement I've read that gives me that impression.

I read it that he felt guilty about the rape/murder, not the later killing of his two fellow soldiers. I'm sure if they felt it was revenge, they would have said it, instead of implying it. Unless you have another source?

 

[jamesrage]

Nah, the left wing media forced the soldier to confess and started the military investigation for the military...

So does this mean that the killing of those two soldiers was revenge for this incident?

As far as we know the liberal media made up accusations of soldiers confessing to a an allegded crime.Our troops are a easy target for the vermon in the liberal media.

 

[Alastor]

I read it that he felt guilty about the rape/murder, not the later killing of his two fellow soldiers. I'm sure if they felt it was revenge, they would have said it, instead of implying it. Unless you have another source?

There are other sources out there. None definitively state what exactly spurned the feelings of guilt for the soldier who confessed (that I've seen so far). I see why you interpret it that way, but I remain compelled to interpret it as him feeling guilty for his peers provoking a retaliatory strike that cost two of his friends lives.

 

[Alastor]

As far as we know the liberal media made up accusations of soldiers confessing to a an allegded crime.Our troops are a easy target for the vermon in the liberal media.

That's preposterous and childish. Statements like this belong in the conspiracy theory category at best.

 

[Alastor]

Kelzie,

I thought about this a few minutes ago but was distracted (playing poker). I'm certain that there was a combination of guilt that compelled the soldier to talk about it openly.

On one hand he had knowledge of the rape and murder of a girl as well as the murder of her family including a child.

On the other, two of his peers were killed in what could be interpreted as retaliation for it.

To what degree each of these was a factor is something we'll likely never know, but I'm certain both had at least some impact on the young man and helped motivate him to speak out about the incidents.

 

[Kelzie]

Kelzie,

I thought about this a few minutes ago but was distracted (playing poker). I'm certain that there was a combination of guilt that compelled the soldier to talk about it openly.

On one hand he had knowledge of the rape and murder of a girl as well as the murder of her family including a child.

On the other, two of his peers were killed in what could be interpreted as retaliation for it.

To what degree each of these was a factor is something we'll likely never know, but I'm certain both had at least some impact on the young man and helped motivate him to speak out about the incidents.

Ah, it's fine. You have your interpretation and I have mine. It's really very unimportant in the grand scheme of things.

 

[scottyz]

As far as we know the liberal media made up accusations of soldiers confessing to a an allegded crime.Our troops are a easy target for the vermon in the liberal media.

Can you prove the media made up the confession and story?

The story says...

Investigators believe a group of U.S. soldiers suspected of raping an Iraqi woman, then killing her and three members of her family plotted the attack for nearly a week, a U.S. military official said Saturday.

The Americans entered the Sunni Arab’s family home, separated three males from the woman, raped her and burned her body using a flammable liquid in a cover-up attempt, a military official close to the investigation said. The three males were also slain.

Criminal investigation
The U.S. military issued a terse statement about the killings Friday, saying only that Maj. Gen. James D. Thurman, commander of the 4th Infantry Division, ordered a criminal investigation into the alleged slaying of a family of four in Mahmoudiya.

The military is the one doing the reporting and investigating of this incident. Other than relaying what the military is telling them about the incident, I don't think the media is deeply involved.

 

[Alastor]

Now now, Scotty. That's mean. Don't confuse the boy with facts.

 

[Pen]

I don't know whether the counselor the soldier confessed to was military or civilian, but it probably doesn't matter. Most interactions within a counseling session have privacy protection (simular to attorney/client), but not this one. Knowledge of murder must be reported to the appropriate authority, which was likely the military. Like Haditha, a potential problem of this kind goes up the chain of command and Congress.

It's silly to assume that the media had any investment other than "if it bleeds, it leads."

 

[Alastor]

Um... The military is not the beneficiary of certain privileges we take for granted in the military. I'm not sure if such a thing as "doctor/patient privilege" exists in the military.

Depending on what type of counselor it was, and whether or not the counselor felt there was a lingering danger to their patient or others, he may not be shielded.

And of course, it's entirely possible that since he gave up the info on his own that he also gave permission for it to be used to find some sort of resolution.

 

[talloulou]

Now it's being said that the raped "woman" was actually a 15 year old girl! That's freaking so atrocious I don't even know what to say!

http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1002765303

There are some evil pieces of ***** out there!

 

[aps]

And one soldier has just been charged.

Former soldier charged in rape, Iraq deaths
Case involves murder of sexually assaulted woman, 3 relatives

CHARLOTTE, N.C. - A former soldier discharged because of a “personality disorder” was accused in federal court Monday of executing an Iraqi family so he and other troops could rape and murder a young woman they had been eyeing at a traffic checkpoint.

Steven D. Green, a skinny, 21-year-old former private, was led into court wearing baggy shorts, flip-flops and a Johnny Cash T-shirt. He spoke only to confirm his identity and stared as a federal magistrate ordered him held without bond on murder and rape charges that carry a possible death penalty. . .

According to a 10-page federal affidavit, Green and three other soldiers from the Fort Campbell, Ky.-based 101st Airborne Division had talked about raping the young woman, whom they first saw while working at the checkpoint. On the day of the attack, the document said, Green and other soldiers drank alcohol and changed out of their uniforms to avoid detection before going to the woman’s house. Green covered his face with a brown T-shirt. . . .

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13686528/

What a disappointment.