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Fit Hits the Shan

MaggieD

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Okay, so John. As some of you may know, Mom's just out of the hospital and needs physical therapy, occupational therapy (help with dressing), 2X a week blood draws by a visiting nurse, etc. Trying hard to build up her strength. She's staying with me right now. And hoped to have her back home by a week from tomorrow.

John came over to visit today, and, as we talked about Mom's condition, I explained to him that he was going to have to exercise patience with her as she got stronger . . . remembered to remind her about walking about the house with her walker . . . helping her for about 15 minutes a day with her exercises. As he rolled his eyes, I said, "Well, John, you've got to find the same compassion for Mom that you have for Mandy (their dog) if she was sick." He said, "It's different. I love the dog."

That escalated me over the moon. Mom was sitting right there. And I said something like, "Make no mistake, John, if it's too much for you -- if you can't find patience -- then I'll take Mom to live with me and sell the house. "No, you won't," he said. Not until you pay me back the $36,000 I've given her in the last 9 years." (When he'd win at the boat, he'd come home and say, "Here, honey, this is for you." He paid no rent. Paid no bills. He carries a sheet of paper around in his wallet with everything he's supposedly given her.

He says that that's the agreement he and Mom had when he came to live with her nine years ago. "If you ever sell the house and I have to move..." he says, Mom promised to give him all his money back. She, of course, says that's bull****.

In fact, when he sold his family home two years ago, I had a conversation with him that included his having to find another place to live some day -- I wanted him to face reality before he sold his own home. (A home that he, his brother and sister had lived in forever and split everything three ways.)

He pointed out to me that "his services" were worth $5000 a month -- the amount of money he paid for one month for his brother who's in an assisted living facility when he had a knee replacement and couldn't live alone at the facility.

I finally threw the $200 he'd given mom from "boat winnings" today. Called him a ****ing asshole. Told him he was the luckiest guy on planet earth for the last 50 years when he's lived with mom rent-free. And he left the house. Smart because I think I might have killed him. He's 85 years old and his brain is practically fried, I think, from 50 years of alcoholism. He hasn't had a drink in 9 years.

Thanks for listening. I'm not sure what I'm going to do. Order him out? It'll be a civil matter with him making the claim he's making. I pay for their cable . . . cut that off right this second? Make the decision to keep Mom with me permanently? I just don't know.

But what I know right now is that I need to cool down. Mom's like, "Whatever." She's what they call cognitively disabled now so . . .
 

lizzie

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Wow- he sounds like a real piece of work. The last thing I would want is for him to be around my mother any more- at all. Of course, this depends on her level of understanding and capability for making sound decisions. If she is capable of directing her own life, then there's probably not much that you can do. If it were me, and I was in the position to make the calls, he would be gone asap. What a jerk.
 

Lutherf

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I know a 101 year old guy out here he can move in with. Sounds like he's a pea from the same pod.

I feel for you, Maggie. It's unbelievable how callous some people can be...how they not only have no idea how good a deal they've got but figure that somehow or other that stuff is owed to them jut because they are sitting there sucking air.
 

MaggieD

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Apologies for being behind the curve but -- who is John? Your brother?
No, John became my mom's boyfriend probably 50 years ago. For 41 of those years, he "lived with" his mother, father, sister and brother in a nearby suburb. (In a 2-bedroom house just FYI.) By "lived with," I mean he came home from work and went to Mom's for dinner and the evening until bedtime. Then went to his home to sleep. The house was like his own. He ate dinner there every night; and only after I harped on it, did he start at least helping with food bills. Nine years ago, his alcoholism finally caught up with him and he almost died. After that, he came to live with Mom.
 

lizzie

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So, Maggie, what are your options, and how capable is she of making her own decisions? Do you have POA for her?

A couple of years ago, after dad died, I had a talk with mom that I really didn't want to have, but I felt like I needed to. She was only 71 at the time, and I had no idea how she would react to losing my dad- if she would freak out and remarry on the rebound, or if she was okay with being alone. I approached the subject, and told her that if she wanted to remarry, I would have no problem with it, but that I would prefer she wait for at least a year, when her decision-making ability would be more rational. She pleasantly surprised me, when she said, in no uncertain terms, that remarriage was the last thing she was interested in, because nobody could replace my dad, and she meant it. She has done quite well, and adjusted to living alone, and I'm proud of her. I don't look forward to the day when she may become unable to make sound decisions, and I sometimes wonder how I will handle that, assuming that I live longer than she does. It's hard watching our parents go through these changes in life.
 

Fisher

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if he was drunk for 50 years, he may have coping issues and his dog comment may have been a joke attempt. People are very strange in dealing with sick and elderly or crisis at timea
 

clownboy

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Does Illinois have common law marriage? You may want to check around and see where John really stands on the food chain. Always better to be armed with the info in case you do decide to take your Mom into your home and sell hers. John's supposed oral agreement isn't worth the paper it isn't printed on. Besides, if your Mom does owe him by Illinois law, he wouldn't get it until after the house was sold, not before. He has no standing to make that a condirtion even if it were true.

Gotta say, he's 85 and he will have sympathy on his side even if the law isn't. Feel for you being in the middle of this and having to go through this hassle when you're trying to help your Mom.
 

MaggieD

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So, Maggie, what are your options, and how capable is she of making her own decisions? Do you have POA for her?

A couple of years ago, after dad died, I had a talk with mom that I really didn't want to have, but I felt like I needed to. She was only 71 at the time, and I had no idea how she would react to losing my dad- if she would freak out and remarry on the rebound, or if she was okay with being alone. I approached the subject, and told her that if she wanted to remarry, I would have no problem with it, but that I would prefer she wait for at least a year, when her decision-making ability would be more rational. She pleasantly surprised me, when she said, in no uncertain terms, that remarriage was the last thing she was interested in, because nobody could replace my dad, and she meant it. She has done quite well, and adjusted to living alone, and I'm proud of her. I don't look forward to the day when she may become unable to make sound decisions, and I sometimes wonder how I will handle that, assuming that I live longer than she does. It's hard watching our parents go through these changes in life.
Mom is on record with her family doctor as having cognitive "issues" -- her short-term memory is pretty bad. I have her health care poa and regular poa. I pay all her bills.

My decision on what to do with John is totally dependent on my decision as to whether to bring mom to live with me. I can't imagine tonight at least leaving mom in his care starting next week. I will not be treated that way and won't see my mom treated like some kind of meal ticket. I know he makes fun of her and yells at her. But I also know she forgets about it pretty fast -- since her memory's not right. I'm not anxious to take mom in, but unless I'm willing to take **** from John and lose yet another battle with him? That's what I'll have to do.

I know I'm a powerful persuader, Lizzie. I can make a case against him that would have St. Peter throwing him into the street. I'm so pissed right now, I just don't know what I'm going to do. But I'll be ****ED!!! if I'm going to let him blackmail me into just forgetting all about the fact that he pays nothing for living there...throws her a bone or two when he goes to the boat (and says he wins...and feels like it), and is a complete jerk-off to me...plus threatening my mom with, "You'll have to pay me back every dime I've ever given you." That's when she's said something like, "If you don't start treating me right, you can just GO!!!" He's said that before to her...she's told me about it...I've told her not to worry about it 'cause that'll never happen. This is the first time he's said it to me.
 

MaggieD

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Does Illinois have common law marriage? You may want to check around and see where John really stands on the food chain. Always better to be armed with the info in case you do decide to take your Mom into your home and sell hers. John's supposed oral agreement isn't worth the paper it isn't printed on. Besides, if your Mom does owe him by Illinois law, he wouldn't get it until after the house was sold, not before. He has no standing to make that a condirtion even if it were true.

Gotta say, he's 85 and he will have sympathy on his side even if the law isn't. Feel for you being in the middle of this and having to go through this hassle when you're trying to help your Mom.
Yeah, I know about the sympathy factor. Hell, even I have it. There's no common law marriage in Illinois. I know that for sure because I consulted an attorney when Tommy moved in with me. The attorney said, "He's a guest in your home." Worst case, I'd guess I'd have to evict him after establishing a tenant/landlord relationship. I do need to check with an attorney, though. You're right.

Edit: The sympathy factor will be mitigated somewhat by the fact that he has a half-million dollars of his own money in short-term cash instruments and is POA over $1 million of his brother's money which he uses as his own. (He's a gambler.)
 
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ChrisL

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Okay, so John. As some of you may know, Mom's just out of the hospital and needs physical therapy, occupational therapy (help with dressing), 2X a week blood draws by a visiting nurse, etc. Trying hard to build up her strength. She's staying with me right now. And hoped to have her back home by a week from tomorrow.

John came over to visit today, and, as we talked about Mom's condition, I explained to him that he was going to have to exercise patience with her as she got stronger . . . remembered to remind her about walking about the house with her walker . . . helping her for about 15 minutes a day with her exercises. As he rolled his eyes, I said, "Well, John, you've got to find the same compassion for Mom that you have for Mandy (their dog) if she was sick." He said, "It's different. I love the dog."

That escalated me over the moon. Mom was sitting right there. And I said something like, "Make no mistake, John, if it's too much for you -- if you can't find patience -- then I'll take Mom to live with me and sell the house. "No, you won't," he said. Not until you pay me back the $36,000 I've given her in the last 9 years." (When he'd win at the boat, he'd come home and say, "Here, honey, this is for you." He paid no rent. Paid no bills. He carries a sheet of paper around in his wallet with everything he's supposedly given her.

He says that that's the agreement he and Mom had when he came to live with her nine years ago. "If you ever sell the house and I have to move..." he says, Mom promised to give him all his money back. She, of course, says that's bull****.

In fact, when he sold his family home two years ago, I had a conversation with him that included his having to find another place to live some day -- I wanted him to face reality before he sold his own home. (A home that he, his brother and sister had lived in forever and split everything three ways.)

He pointed out to me that "his services" were worth $5000 a month -- the amount of money he paid for one month for his brother who's in an assisted living facility when he had a knee replacement and couldn't live alone at the facility.

I finally threw the $200 he'd given mom from "boat winnings" today. Called him a ****ing asshole. Told him he was the luckiest guy on planet earth for the last 50 years when he's lived with mom rent-free. And he left the house. Smart because I think I might have killed him. He's 85 years old and his brain is practically fried, I think, from 50 years of alcoholism. He hasn't had a drink in 9 years.

Thanks for listening. I'm not sure what I'm going to do. Order him out? It'll be a civil matter with him making the claim he's making. I pay for their cable . . . cut that off right this second? Make the decision to keep Mom with me permanently? I just don't know.

But what I know right now is that I need to cool down. Mom's like, "Whatever." She's what they call cognitively disabled now so . . .
God what an ass. :roll: So sorry that you have to deal with this jerk on top of your mom being ill Maggie. I wish I had some advice, but all I have is good wishes.
 

DiAnna

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Do you really want your mother to recover under the care of a man who loves the dog, not her, and is totally ungrateful for 50 yrs of free rent and free maid service? Really? He won't help your mother, he probably won't even get food or water for her if she's unable to get it herself. Look, I know an 80 yr old narcissistic rat-bastard who blames his behavior on everyone else and hasn't taken responsibility for his own actions since his potty training days when he proudly showed off his own poop. Age is no defense to being an abusive prick... and make no mistake, John is emotionally and psychologically abusive. As your mother gets weaker and more confused, it's just a matter of time before he becomes irritated enough at not having her take care of his needs that he begins to push, shove, and possibly even hit.

TBH, I'd never leave my mother alone with guy ever again, even if I had to evict him myself and hire a full-time caregiver for her in her own home. You and your mother love each other, so if it's possible for her to spend her remaining years (until the possibility of imminent rest-home care looms), that would be safest and happiest for her. Her "whatever" attitude is because she has been dismissed, criticized, verbally abused and made to feel less than nothing for 50 years, and no longer has the will to fight for her own self-respect. I recognize it, because the selfish 80 yr old rat-bastard's wife is just like your mother, made to feel unimportant and worthless to the point that she feels the effort to assert her own sense of dignity is more trouble than it's worth, and feeling guilty because she allowed him to do this to her.

I don't envy your decision, hon. *hugs*
 

nota bene

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What Lizzie and Di say.

*hugs*
 

greyhat

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Get with a lawyer and have all of her assets placed into an irrevocable trust for her benefit. This will come in handy if there are ever questions as to what he is due if anything. Just a thought.
 
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