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First Woman Executed in the U.S. in Five Years

victims less safe...???

is that like, where do you bury the survivors?

the only things that make victims safe are the police, courts, jails...

bull

I shot a mugger with a handgun, that gun made me safer.

police and courts act after you have been robbed, murdered or raped

millions of crimes have been stopped before an honest person has been victimized by the use of weapons
 
Sure it does. The Supreme Court recognizes this and its a reason we don't execute the mentally retarded. I don't agree is Capital Punishment at all, but if its it is going to be applied, it certainly shouldn't be applied to people with a mental capacity far below average and ability to think rationally lower than the rest of us.

I would argue the opposite, a smart person might be salvaged, a murderous moron has no redeeming qualities
 
the only things that make victims safe are the police, courts, jails...

Horse****! After I shot a guy who tried to rob me a few years back I had to fight gang member charges, assault charges, illegal weapon charges and it looked like at the time they wanted to investigate my citizenship status.
 
Yeah, 'cuz the police stop lots of crimes in progress. :roll:

People that think like this become statistics.

The crime rate has gone for two reasons:

1) abortion
2) more criminals are in jail for life - which is very expensive

No Libertarian or Conservative with their guns had any meaningful impact on crime rates.
 
The crime rate has gone for two reasons:

1) abortion
2) more criminals are in jail for life - which is very expensive

No Libertarian or Conservative with their guns had any meaningful impact on crime rates.
Statistics prove you wrong, but that's nothing new.
 
The crime rate has gone for two reasons:

1) abortion
2) more criminals are in jail for life - which is very expensive

No Libertarian or Conservative with their guns had any meaningful impact on crime rates.

And with such thorough sourcing, who could ever doubt your claims?

Sure you did.

The anonymous internet is like a drug for you. No inhibitions, you can say whatever you want.

Every one of turtledude's stories has remained consistent in the years he's been here. You've been told by CC that he is who he says he is. Pretending like you think he's lying doesn't make your arguments any stronger.
 
The crime rate has gone for two reasons:

1) abortion
2) more criminals are in jail for life - which is very expensive

No Libertarian or Conservative with their guns had any meaningful impact on crime rates.

you just make crap up as you go along. The area where I had to shoot someone wasn't exactly a high crime area but there were some muggings. After the DA noted how many of the citizens in the area had carry permits, the mopes must have gotten an education because there were ZERO muggings in that area for a year after I had to act
 
Sure you did.

The anonymous internet is like a drug for you. No inhibitions, you can say whatever you want.

Yeah I recall you spent hours trying to deny I went to Yale or have a law degree. You seem to think that since you cannot dispute my positon you can undermine it by trying to pretend my relevant background doesn't exist even though you have been schooled on that by others. I gave you the chance to get the complete story but you didn't have the stones to put up the cash
 
Re: Protesters condemn US grandmother's execution

She's dead.....

What bothers me even more lately is that the mental health system is so broken and that the criminal justice system has decided to wash its hands of violent mentally ill offenders.

There are many severely mentally disturbed people who are a very clear danger to society who are getting released from jail to mental treatment and the mental health system is kicking them back to the streets a few days later with a perscription and a case worker's phone number.

yes, thank you - no one's saying that she shouldn't have been held someplace.
But giving the death sentence wasn't the right answer to the problem.
 
Statistics prove you wrong, but that's nothing new.

Unfortunately, they don't. Economists and academics have debunked Lotts 'more guns, less crime' b.s. as fundamentally flawed junk science.

It can not stand up to peer-review.

Get over it and move on.

Crime goes down when criminals are housed for life -- a very expensive solution.
 
Actually while Levitt's original calculation for Freakonomics was in fact an error, his revised one does show a relatively small impact upon crime caused by abortion. Nowhere near his original assertion, but not entirely false.

The Impact of Legalized Abortion on Crime - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And you got a statistics that shows that increased incarceration doesn't reduce crime?
I'm actually referring to the prevalence of legal firearm ownership and their relation to crime rates. Sorry for being vague.
 
Unfortunately, they don't. Economists and academics have debunked Lotts 'more guns, less crime' b.s. as fundamentally flawed junk science.

It can not stand up to peer-review.

Get over it and move on.

Crime goes down when criminals are housed for life -- a very expensive solution.
Nobody said anything about John Lott.

Gun control makes violent crime more prevalent. Deal with it.
 
Sure you did.

The anonymous internet is like a drug for you. No inhibitions, you can say whatever you want.

Yeah I recall you spent hours trying to deny I went to Yale or have a law degree. You seem to think that since you cannot dispute my positon you can undermine it by trying to pretend my relevant background doesn't exist even though you have been schooled on that by others. I gave you the chance to get the complete story but you didn't have the stones to put up the cash

Moderator's Warning:
Warnings are over. If you the two of you or either of you start this up again, infractions will be given out with giddy abandon.
 
Nobody said anything about John Lott.

Gun control makes violent crime more prevalent. Deal with it.

that is one of the intended purposes of gun control People who feel helpless in the face of criminal predation are more likely to willingly cede more and more rights to the government in order to achieve more safety.
 
lol - "giddy abandon"

Ok - that one made me spew coffee out me nose!
 
Someone who has an IQ of 69 is much more likely to murder someone than a person of average IQ. I'm not giving her any excuses, I just don't think she should have been executed. I don't think anyone should be executed. Judging by Americas murder rate it obviously isn't a useful detterent so what is the point of it. Also the risk of executing an innocent person is too great.

Shouldn't you Christian conservatives be against anyways on the grounds of religion, I thought god was the only person who could judge a man for his sins..I don't think Jesus would approve of the execution of a woman who scored a 69 on her IQ test, do you?

Please forgive my indignation at your seriously flawed hypothesis, it is as wrong as anyone who is thinking the Sun comes up in the east each and every morning.

What's that? You say Everyone knows the the Sun comes up in the east every morning and has since the beginning of time.

It is not my intention to be little anyone but educate people to the reality of nature and the reality of the nature of the human.

Truth is the Sun only appears to rise in the east, when in fact the Sun did nothing but remain motionless and as our earth turns we see what looks like tha sune not only comes up but that it tracks across the sky all day until it appears to go down, when in fact the Earth is turning giving us the illusion of the Sun being in motion. It's a matter of perspective.

Now from your perspective it appears the death penalty has NO deterrent affect on murders.

To understand why this is wrong you must first compare the threat of punishing a child for doing something that you have warned them about over, and over again but, we never follow through on the threat.

What message does the child get? They learn that you are all talk and there are no consequences to their actions.

The same is now true of people who commit murder. They see people on death row for many years playing the system and if by some slim chance they are finally put to death it's no worse than taking an ambien pill and peacefully going to sleep.

That doesn't hurt.

But now let's look at the death penalty when it worked and people feared the scales of justice.

When you were found guilty of a Capital Crime the Judge would say something like: You will be removed from this Court and be delivered to the place of execution were at Sunrise tomorrow you will be hanged by the neck until you are dead.

Now Brothers and Sisters that is a deterrent. Sadly we have become too soft on criminals.

Works for me!


bittercreek_hanging_ambrotype.jpg


In the words of Ben Franklin at the signing of the Declaration of Independence: "We must hang together or assuredly we shall all hang separately."

But to that I say: "Let us band together to hang the wicked or they shall one day live to kill again."
 
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I don't plan on ever putting myself in a situation where I need a gun or where I am met by somebody with a gun.
No one does - and yet it happens all the time. Why do you choose to be defenseless?

Why do people need M-16s and AK-47s??
Welll.. the right to arms is all about people always having access to an effective means to kill other people, because sometimes it is necessary for people to do that.
Given that, why -not- have an M16?
 
the only things that make victims safe are the police, courts, jails...
Wait... only the state can make us safe?
My, what a "moderate" position.
:roll:
 
I find it interesting that she got the needle, while the men who actually committed the murders got off with life in prison.
 
Historically, an IQ of 70 has been considered the threshold for mental retardation.
"Borderline intellectual functioning" is defined as an IQ between 84 and 70 (which would probably describe 85% of the prison population), but anything below 70 is indisputably "mentally retarded".
This woman tested at 69, so I'm not sure why people keep talking about her being "borderline retarded", or "almost retarded", or whatever.
She is (was) mentally retarded.
The fact that she's not as profoundly mentally retarded as some other people does not make this any less true.

Whether this should have disqualified her from the death penalty is a whole different debate, but I would like it if we could at least be honest about the facts: she was mentally retarded.
That does not mean she was good. Mentally retarded people can be bad, too.
It may or may not mean that she wasn't fully cognizant of the consequences of her actions.
There is a reason we don't execute children, or punish them as adults.
It's because they don't entirely have the capacity to understand the consequences of their actions.
Personally, I doubt this woman did, either.
Her understanding of the world, and of right and wrong, was probably pretty childlike.

Is her death a great loss?
Not really. The death of her two victims- one of them a united States soldier- is a greater loss. I'd advocate killing her if it would bring them back.
But since it won't, I don't see much point in killing her, except to make bereaved family members of the victims feel better.
And since neither of her co-conspirators were or will be put to death, I can't see how killing her will really offer the family any closure in this matter.

That's my feeling on it.
I've known people with IQs in the same range as this woman; as adults, they can appear- on short acquaintance- almost normal. They can also be manipulative. They can use sexuality to their advantage. None of this means, however, that they are capable of functioning cognitively as adults.

I don't really care that she's dead, but I think we could've just as well allowed her to serve out a life sentence, and perhaps executed one of the gunmen instead, if blood atonement was really necessary.
 
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Historically, an IQ of 70 has been considered the threshold for mental retardation.
"Borderline intellectual functioning" is defined as an IQ between 84 and 70 (which would probably describe 85% of the prison population), but anything below 70 is indisputably "mentally retarded".
This woman tested at 69, so I'm not sure why people keep talking about her being "borderline retarded", or "almost retarded", or whatever.
She is (was) mentally retarded.
The fact that she's not as profoundly mentally retarded as some other people does not make this any less true.

Her IQ was 72, not 69.

Cognitive testing showed a Full Scale IQ of 72. Verbal IQ was 70, and Performance IQ was 79.

Teresa Lewis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
that is one of the intended purposes of gun control People who feel helpless in the face of criminal predation are more likely to willingly cede more and more rights to the government in order to achieve more safety.

Wrong.

Ask anybody in law enforcement or criminal justice, gun control is about protecting peace officers who work in high crime areas, as well as federal officers who go after criminals who use illegal hand guns to commit crimes.
 
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