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Firefighters watch as home burns to the ground

Prof. Peabody

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Firefighters watch as home burns to the ground | WPSD Local 6 - News, Sports, Weather - Paducah KY | Local
Reporter - Jason Hibbs
Photojournalist - Mark Owen

Story Updated: Sep 30, 2010 at 12:31 AM CDT

OBION COUNTY, Tenn. - Imagine your home catches fire but the local fire department won't respond, then watches it burn. That's exactly what happened to a local family tonight.

A local neighborhood is furious after firefighters watched as an Obion County, Tennessee, home burned to the ground.

The homeowner, Gene Cranick, said he offered to pay whatever it would take for firefighters to put out the flames, but was told it was too late. They wouldn't do anything to stop his house from burning.

Each year, Obion County residents must pay $75 if they want fire protection from the city of South Fulton. But the Cranicks did not pay.

The mayor said if homeowners don't pay, they're out of luck.

What were they paying taxes for? This is local government and their workers just out of control. Simply amazing isn't it? Next time you see a political ad sponsored by some firefighters association, remember this story. The NYC firefighters were hero's, there's absolutely nothing heroic about these money grubbing thugs.
 

Manc Skipper

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Bidness is bidness. Are you some kinda commie?
 

CriticalThought

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I'm sorry, but isn't this the kind of world that conservatives want? A world where you can opt out of government programs?
 

tacomancer

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Lucky no-one was inside.

It could have so easily happened. Heck sometimes people forget and leave their kid in the car when they go shopping.
 

OscarB63

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I'm sorry, but isn't this the kind of world that conservatives want? A world where you can opt out of government programs?

yep. this family chose to gamble instead of paying the $75/year (that's about 20 cents a day) and they got burned...literally.

How is this story any different from a guy who decides not to get auto insurance totalling his car?

I just hope this family wasn't too cheap to get home owners insurance.
 

buck

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When I first heard this story, I felt for the guy and thought that the fire department should have put it out. However, the more I learn, the less I agree with that.

It's come out that this was actually the guys second fire. The first time, they hadn't paid the fee either. The FD waived the fee for a day, put out the fire and the guy paid the $75.00 the next day.

I would be willing to bet that he thought of that as a precedent. Assuming that if he ever had a fire again, he could just do the same thing. Basically, he gambled and lost.

Now, you can make an argument that the additional fire protection tax shouldn't be optional for the houses outside of the city. However, I assume it's a law (and probably not a local law) that requires it to be handled the way it is.
 
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CriticalThought

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Honestly, I don't see why they couldn't have just fined him. It wouldn't be too hard to make the law so that if you respond to a fire and they haven't paid the $75 then they have to pay the total cost of what it took to put out the fire. I imagine it would be a lot more than $75 but a lot less than a whole new house. It could even be based on consent. They only put out the fire if the home owner accept the fines. Problem solved.
 

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Honestly, I don't see why they couldn't have just fined him. It wouldn't be too hard to make the law so that if you respond to a fire and they haven't paid the $75 then they have to pay the total cost of what it took to put out the fire. I imagine it would be a lot more than $75 but a lot less than a whole new house. It could even be based on consent. They only put out the fire if the home owner accept the fines. Problem solved.
Because it's much more fun for the firemman and the mayor to watch the house burn down and see the owners lose everything they have. It makes them feel powerful. :ninja:
 

rivrrat

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As long as the fire department is under govt control and the people are paying taxes, then the fire department should do it's goddamn job.

I have no issue with fire departments operating on a fee basis for their services, but this department is not a private entity, it is under govt control. That's different.

However, if he was told specifically "This is the cost per year of having 'fire insurance', so to speak" and he deliberately and knowingly CHOSE not to pay that, then that's really is own ****ing fault.

BUT... when he offered to pay if they would come out, then IMO they should have come out. If it was only about the money, then they would have gotten their money. They did this out of spite and that I cannot condone.
 

OscarB63

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As long as the fire department is under govt control and the people are paying taxes, then the fire department should do it's goddamn job.

I have no issue with fire departments operating on a fee basis for their services, but this department is not a private entity, it is under govt control. That's different.

However, if he was told specifically "This is the cost per year of having 'fire insurance', so to speak" and he deliberately and knowingly CHOSE not to pay that, then that's really is own ****ing fault.

BUT... when he offered to pay if they would come out, then IMO they should have come out. If it was only about the money, then they would have gotten their money. They did this out of spite and that I cannot condone.


I would agree, IF this was the first incident. This had happened once before. The guy was basically trying to avoid paying the $75 fee. he didn't want to pay unless his house caught on fire.

He knew the policy, he chose not to pay the fee, it's his own damn fault. he gambled and lost :2bigcry:
 
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OscarB63

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Honestly, I don't see why they couldn't have just fined him. It wouldn't be too hard to make the law so that if you respond to a fire and they haven't paid the $75 then they have to pay the total cost of what it took to put out the fire. I imagine it would be a lot more than $75 but a lot less than a whole new house. It could even be based on consent. They only put out the fire if the home owner accept the fines. Problem solved.

and how would you ensure that they paid? any idea how many outstanding court judgements there are out there?
 

Harry Guerrilla

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This has already been done in this thread:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/gener...1-libertarianism-case-study-consequences.html

Basically the county doesn't have a fire department, the city with no tax authority over county residents, offered this as a fee for service.
The guy didn't pay the fee, he doesn't get the service.

If they want a fire department, they can lobby the county to make one and collectively tax everyone.

The city shouldn't be handing out free emergency services outside the city proper.
There isn't enough money to pay for all that.
 
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buck

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As long as the fire department is under govt control and the people are paying taxes, then the fire department should do it's goddamn job.

I have no issue with fire departments operating on a fee basis for their services, but this department is not a private entity, it is under govt control. That's different.

However, if he was told specifically "This is the cost per year of having 'fire insurance', so to speak" and he deliberately and knowingly CHOSE not to pay that, then that's really is own ****ing fault.

BUT... when he offered to pay if they would come out, then IMO they should have come out. If it was only about the money, then they would have gotten their money. They did this out of spite and that I cannot condone.

From what I understand, the fire department does operate on taxes for people within the city. However, this guy is outside of the city and thus does not pay taxes for the fire department, which is why they have the additional $75.00 fee. In other words, this guy's tax money does not go towards the fire department.
 

winston53660

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I wonder how this affected the surrounding property values?
 

OscarB63

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I have zero sympathy for this guy. At least he had the option to pay the ~ 20 cents a day for this service. I live out in the county and all we have is a volunteer fire dept. we call them the "ash coolers"
 

buck

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Honestly, I don't see why they couldn't have just fined him. It wouldn't be too hard to make the law so that if you respond to a fire and they haven't paid the $75 then they have to pay the total cost of what it took to put out the fire. I imagine it would be a lot more than $75 but a lot less than a whole new house. It could even be based on consent. They only put out the fire if the home owner accept the fines. Problem solved.

I think the problem with that is that few would pay the $75.00 fee. Knowing you can get the fire protection if needed will provide an excuse.

Additionally, you'd also have a hard time collecting from people. First, because not everyone is going to have $10,000.00 sitting around to pay your proposed fine. Then even if they did, in many cases, good luck trying to collect. Four years ago I won a small claims court judgement. I still haven't successfully collected the owed amount. The city will have the same issues.

Now that people see the consequence of gambling ontheir house, I'd be willing to bet most people will make sure to pay that $75.00 annual fee.
 
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ReverendHellh0und

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If 1$ of thier tax money went to this FD and they wanted an additional $75 a year? The FD and that town is ****ed. I hear a huge lawsuit coming.
 

DrunkenAsparagus

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I have zero sympathy for this guy. At least he had the option to pay the ~ 20 cents a day for this service. I live out in the county and all we have is a volunteer fire dept. we call them the "ash coolers"

If it's properly run they shouldn't be more than a few minutes from getting to the station. It's also a helluva lot cheaper. How many fire calls does your area see?
 

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Barbbtx

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It sounds like the $75 was an insurance that the fire department would show up. Just like any insurance, you pay before something bad happens, not after it happens. I'm sure it costs more than $75 to dispatch the fire department.
It sounds like this guy was used as an example, especially since it was his second fire where he hadn't paid.
 
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OscarB63

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If 1$ of thier tax money went to this FD and they wanted an additional $75 a year? The FD and that town is ****ed. I hear a huge lawsuit coming.


that's the issue, Rev. this guy lived in the county. it was a city FD. ZERO of his tax money went to this FD. this fee based service was offered to county residents as a courtesy. he chose not to pay, he gambled and lost. boo ****ing hoo
 

ReverendHellh0und

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that's the issue, Rev. this guy lived in the county. it was a city FD. ZERO of his tax money went to this FD. this fee based service was offered to county residents as a courtesy. he chose not to pay, he gambled and lost. boo ****ing hoo




Are you sure. I have inlaws that live in yorktown, the county, they pay a fire "Fee" but thier taxes also go to the fire dept.... I can see that if they are in unicorporated land that this fee is more than fair, but, if I were the firemen, I'd roll up thier with a clip board that stated they would be billed by the hour if the fee hadn't been paid. Why? because by not addressing this fire they risked the other home, which had paid.
 

ZGM

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Re: Idiot firefighters let house burn down because owner didn't have $75!!

What does it have to do with political issues?
 
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