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Firefighters at the scene on 9/11 speak of molten steel

creativedreams

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Firefighters at the scene on 9/11 speak of molten steel...kinda coincides with why over 38% of Americans polled believe 9/11 was concocted very similar how Germany concocted their own fake attack on their own government building just before WWII.

 
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Wiseone

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Why is he smirking? Maybe he's being asked questions about a conspiracy to destroy the towers with pre-planted explosives and he thinks its crazy? That or he's also in on the secret and he's smiling in some sick twisted knowledge that he got away with it.
 

creativedreams

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Why is he smirking? Maybe he's being asked questions about a conspiracy to destroy the towers with pre-planted explosives and he thinks its crazy? That or he's also in on the secret and he's smiling in some sick twisted knowledge that he got away with it.
....:).....
 

I_Gaze_At_The_Blue

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Firefighters at the scene on 9/11 speak of molten steel...
Your video is moronic ... nice to see you don't realise it still !!!

Firstly demonstrate creative, exactly HOW a digger can pick up molten steel/anything !!!

Explain exactly HOW a digger can pick up something in the liquid state of molten ???

Do you still not get the difference between molten and INCANDESCENT !!!

Please, also explain creative, exactly HOW Fire Fighters would know for a fact that they were looking at "molten steel" ... after all REAL materials scientists and metallurgists have to use sophisticated and hi-tech equipment such as microscopy and x-ray dispersive radiography ... BEFORE they can definetively claim "molten steel" ...

Metallography - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Positive Metal Identification - PMI - Doosan Babcock

Silicon, a component of computers, melts at 1450°F and glows orange.

Brass, a common enough metal for plumbing fixtures, and a bunch of other things, melts at below 1700°F and glows orange.

Bronze does much the same job as brass, melts below 1750°F, and glows orange.

And so on.

But you think someone can positively tell from non-expert SIGHT alone ... amazing !!!

There were a LOT of materials in the WTC, and a LOT of them were metals that were fairly easy to melt (tin, zinc, etc.) that also glow orange and have the shiny metallic appearance which would get mistakenly called "steel".

Certain plastics can also melt and glow orange instead of burning ... and let's not forget that the buildings were CLAD in a metal that has a much lower melting point ...what was it again ???

Oh! yes, ALUMINIUM ... which the planes are made from too !!!

Whoda thunk it !!!

So, yes, there could have been a whole host of molten stuff in the burned-out rubble of the WTC ... but that doesn't mean in any way it was molten "steel".

Have you discounted those things first creative ... here, let me take a wild, wild guess here ....

No !!!

As mentioned before ... ALL metals GLOW as temperatures rise.

The EXACT appearance depends on the mix of impurities like oil, other metals and compounds, organic and non-organic and oxidation.

It doesn’t really matter what the emitter is … stainless steel, cast iron, tungsten in your light bulb ... the temperatures are about the same for a given colour.

All PURE metals are the same colour at each temperature !!!

IF the WTC fires were hot enought to "melt" steel then where is all the molten CONCRETE ????

Concrete is made fron silicates ... SILICATE (*hint* like GLASS) minerals in CONCRETE ... a MIXTURE of which would "melt" at a temperature LOWER than any of the individual minerals.

Show me the molten concrete ... if molten steel existed so would molten concrete ... show me it ...

Fail ... once again ... your favourite flavour !!!

BTW, Goss' body language shows he is HAVING to suffer fools gladly !!!
 

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Your video is moronic ... nice to see you don't realise it still !!!

Do you still not get the difference between molten and INCANDESCENT !!!
Metallography - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Positive Metal Identification - PMI - Doosan Babcock
!!!
Apparently there was not much effort made to identify the Molten or Irredesscant materials, when the Firemen were working the site. A major emphasis was to look for more dead bodies. Another priority was to respect the body parts that were undetected, in the rubble. The whole site was treated as sacred.

If there had been a higher priority to look for the cause of the Reichstag fire, then maybe there would have been better documentation of molten materials.

What combustibles were the source of the heat for the molten materials? Other than Super Thermite?

Should building designers today, be designing cross webbing of girders, so that simplistic diagonal thermite cuts of the supportiing beams would not bring down future buildings so quickly?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_fire


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creativedreams

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Should building designers today, be designing cross webbing of girders, so that simplistic diagonal thermite cuts of the supportiing beams would not bring down future buildings so quickly?


Reichstag fire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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OMFG.....LMAO!!!!! :lamo Perhaps in the U.S. new and upcoming, modern day Architects and Engineers, should take into consideration of a possible false flag operation by the U.S. with its CIA asset in conjunction with Mossad explosive experts in this country, and be much more thoughtful in the designs of their buildings.....OMFG!!!!!!!!!...

By the way this is no real joke because there were actually Mossad explosive experts caught during the 9/11 times in very incriminating situations....were actually in jail for awhile....only to be released by the top of America's pyramid scheme and deported.........
 
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Gladiator

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OMFG.....LMAO!!!!! :lamo Perhaps in the U.S. new and upcoming, modern day Architects and Engineers, should take into consideration of a possible false flag operation by the U.S. with its CIA asset in conjunction with Mossad explosive experts in this country, and be much more thoughtful in the designs of their buildings.....OMFG!!!!!!!!!...
........
This is why the Architects and engineers signed the petition for considering 9-11 more analytically.

What about their insurance, for design liability, if injuries result from a design that fails to protect from diagonal cuts with Super Thermite, and more buildings start coming down with these diagonal cut beams, and molten pools of meled something or other.

Should Engineers, since 9-11, now know that building designs should assume that building beams are subject to simple diagonal cuts, and building structural designs should provide inter-lacing for more support? Or should the governmet specifically exclude diagonal cut beams from Engineer's design liability?



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I_Gaze_At_The_Blue

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Apparently there was not much effort made to identify the Molten or Irredesscant materials, when the Firemen were working the site. A major emphasis was to look for more dead bodies. Another priority was to respect the body parts that were undetected, in the rubble. The whole site was treated as sacred.
AND rightly so that the initial priority was body removal and respect for them ... but now you need explain EXACTLY what does MOLTEN anything prove ???

I'll tell you NOTHING ... except the rubble pile was hot.

There is ZERO kind of explosive or INCENDIARY like thermite that leave pools of molten material as evidence ... period !!!

Bombs simply do not create pools of anything ... it is a GAS PRESSURE WAVE ... producing nothing molten ... nada, zilch, zero ... period !!!

MOLTEN METAL/STEEL/WHATEVER proves NOTHING ... it is entirely meaningless !!!

Finding molten "anything" from plastics through metals and glass proves NOTHING except the rubble pile got hot (understandibly so) and the layer of rubble acted as INSULATION ... which PREVENTED heat from escaping ... it is NOT any kind of evidence of explosive or incendiary usage ... period !!!

So WHY should there have been any kind of investigation of them ???

What combustibles were the source of the heat for the molten materials? Other than Super Thermite?
Seriously Gladiator ... you "cannot" think of any sources of combustibles in a huge office and commercial property that had underground car-parks, maintenence areas, fuel storage, etc, etc, etc ... really ... seriously ???

Do you not realise that thousands of tons of debris would act as an INSULATOR ... keeping heat IN !!!

Please also explain exactly how thermite (your Thuper Thermite is mythical) can keep burning for weeks ... as in the physical reality of this universe it is a chemical reaction that lasts MINUTES !!!

It is a complete straw argument, why do you all still cling to it ???

Should building designers today, be designing cross webbing of girders, so that simplistic diagonal thermite cuts of the supportiing beams would not bring down future buildings so quickly?
Reality check Gladiator ... it is physically IMPOSSIBLE in this universe for thermite (of whatever flavour) to cut diagonally.

It is a chemical reaction governed by GRAVITY ...

Gravity ONLY has ONE direction ... and that is DOWN !!!
 

I_Gaze_At_The_Blue

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This is why the Architects and engineers signed the petition for considering 9-11 more analytically.
Your joking ... that bunch of morons whose sole purpose is to fleece "donations" to enable Gage to travel First Class and put up in fancy hotels ... :roll:

WHEN is this wonderous petition going to be presented ... and to whom ???

Does it have a cut-off date ... for there is NOTHING more pointless OR impotent as a never-ending endless petition !!!

What possible influence can some on-line petition achieve when it is exists solely in the ether of the internet ...

FYI it is NOT such a large number of real architects and engineers ... it is open to architekturwal and enjineerwing "pwoffeshunals" ... basically ANYBODY that has even worked in an architekturwal or enjineerwing office.

Funny also how such an estimeed and knowlegable bunch cannot get a decent scientific paper out there detailing their theories ... surely that CANNOT be "beyond" such an august bunch ... no peer-review, no conference proceedings, no Journal articles, NOT one of their "enjineers" has managed to put together any analytical FEA or modelling ... a project which should NOT be "beyond" them, were they competent.

And yet here we are, to date, with them ONLY ever having managed a PowerPoint presentation and donate button (which always falls well short of target ... seems these pwofeshunals have very small pockets) ... incredible !!!

There are quite a number of people (even lil'ol me) whom have signed it with false credentials and names, such as the ubiquitous D.Duck ... so for such a LAX and useless petition it fails miserably as any sort of appeal to authority

They are a JOKE ... end of !!!

The rest of your post was subjective unimportant drivelling supposition that has ZERO bearing on the reality of structural design ... sorry but there you go !!!
 

505

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Please also explain exactly how thermite (your Thuper Thermite is mythical) can keep burning for weeks...
I've wondered about this one as well. As you pointed out, the pic of the firefighters huddled around "the glow" is 100% manipulated and bogus. That picture alone speaks volumes about Jones and his cronies, but we'll disregard that for now. The other picture is the one with the glowing chunk in the grasps of a digger. How those jaws can pick up something that is "molten" I will never be able to figure out.

Then there is the question you asked of how can the thermite keep burning for weeks. I have come to expect very little from the trufth camp, so it's no big surprise to me that they can't figure this one out. I have never heard any of them lay down any sort of logic about this one. It's like they are told by a select handful of nuts that "there is molten STEEL in the rubble... so thermite is the only explanation"... and they just run with it. Without hesitation, they repeat it over and over... never giving any sort of critical thought to the whole thing. At any point they could stop and THINK, and come to the conclusion that this could be ANY type of metal, and that it is merely GLOWING and not MOLTEN. I have made metal glow in a simple camp fire for cryin out loud. No crazy thermite... or even any insulation like a several story tall pile of (at least partly) combustible rubble provides.

Glowing metal = conspiracy (for the weak minded).
 

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Glowing metal = conspiracy (for the weak minded).
Do you believe the reports of glowing materials in the WTC rubble, up to weeks after the collapse of 9-11 are all fabricated?

If there is a logical, non-incendiary explanation for the finding of glowing materials, why do all official reports omit references to the finding of glowing rubble?

Why is someone "weak minded" if they point out that official reports are incomplete?

If Super-Thermite is still secret, then how will ordinary citizens wtihout top secret clearances, know for sure, super thermite was not used?

Do you have a top secret clearance for the top 30 industrialized nations military and intelligence services?

I feel very comfortable with my ignorance of not knowing what really hapened on 9-11. I have not seen sufficient information on DP, or elsewwhere, to alleviate my doubts about any "explanation".



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505

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Do you believe the reports of glowing materials in the WTC rubble, up to weeks after the collapse of 9-11 are all fabricated?
No. I do however believe that anyone who claims there was MOLTEN STEEL (without ever testing the material to see that it was, in fact, steel), is foolish. There is no way to tell from a picture what the GLOWING METAL was. Big difference between glowing metal and molten steel.

If there is a logical, non-incendiary explanation for the finding of glowing materials, why do all official reports omit references to the finding of glowing rubble?
Perhaps because there is nothing unique or unusual about there being glowing metal in the rubble? Have you read all of the reports to make your conclusion that ALL official reports have omitted said findings? Or do you just parrot the conspiracy sites that have told you this?

Why is someone "weak minded" if they point out that official reports are incomplete?
Because most of the time a tiny ounce of thought will lead you away from some of these insane conclusions.

If Super-Thermite is still secret, then how will ordinary citizens wtihout top secret clearances, know for sure, super thermite was not used?
Perhaps because there was ZERO evidence of any super thermite at ground zero?

Do you have a top secret clearance for the top 30 industrialized nations military and intelligence services?
Yes. All 30. Plus some. I am the super ultra spy. lol.

I feel very comfortable with my ignorance of not knowing what really hapened on 9-11. I have not seen sufficient information on DP, or elsewwhere, to alleviate my doubts about any "explanation".
Then you aren't looking hard enough. All of the info is out there.
 

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After having been to a steel foundry, I can tell you molten steel is far too hot for a human to stand anywhere near it. I stood probably 100' away from where the red-hot (not even molten) steel beams were rolling out and it was almost too hot to stay that close. Those firefighters were nowhere near any molten steel, unless they have some super-secret equipment that can withstand temperatures of over 2000° F.

It's amazing how some people will suspend reality in order to grasp at some wisp of a conspiracy.
 

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After having been to a steel foundry, I can tell you molten steel is far too hot for a human to stand anywhere near it. I stood probably 100' away from where the red-hot (not even molten) steel beams were rolling out and it was almost too hot to stay that close. Those firefighters were nowhere near any molten steel, unless they have some super-secret equipment that can withstand temperatures of over 2000° F.

It's amazing how some people will suspend reality in order to grasp at some wisp of a conspiracy.
Oh the gear will keep you alive (provided you have full scba and ppe on, which these people didn't), for about five seconds. The things only rated to 500 degrees Fahrenheit for five minutes.
 

creativedreams

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unless they have some super-secret equipment that can withstand temperatures of over 2000° F.
So are you calling the firefighters at the scene....with their well documented statements liars?
 

I_Gaze_At_The_Blue

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So are you calling the firefighters at the scene....with their well documented statements liars?
Oh! how you try to twist things creative !!!

This is not what was said, stop trying to flame ... your useless at it anway !!!

Coronado clearly said that the EQUIPMENT is only rated to 500°F ... THAT is NOT calling them liars.

Yes, those Fire Fighters said they thought they saw steel ... but this is what you don't get creative ... unknowledgable eyewitness testimony is NOT GOSPEL.

People THINK cars backfiring is gunfire ... they did not KNOW for a fact that they were looking at steel as it is PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to tell the difference between many kinds of "molten" metals, plastics, ceramics or glass by SIGHT alone.

They ONLY had their unexpert impressions to go with ...

You fail to completely grasp this simple point ... those FireFighters may have genuinely "thought" any kind of shiney, greyish metally looking substance was steel ... but that is NOT proof it WAS steel.

And considering it was a steel structure it makes sense the FIRST thing they would "think" is steel ... doesn't mean it actually was ...

Do you not understand this oh! so childishly simple fact ???

No ... don't answer it was wholly rhetorical !!!

Beside molten ANYTHING proves NOTHING ... don't you get that either ???
 

I_Gaze_At_The_Blue

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Do you believe the reports of glowing materials in the WTC rubble, up to weeks after the collapse of 9-11 are all fabricated?
Gladiator, we believe that people reported what they "thought" was molten metals ... but by being non-experts in metallurgy it was uninformed opinion ... not a statement of fact !!!

There is a difference ... and you cannot escape that ALL molten materials will glow around the same temperatures ... so just because something "looked" shiny and metaly does NOT make it "steel" ... it could be glass ... it could be concrete ... it could be plastic ... it could be zinc ... it could be copper ... it could be aluminium ... it could be steel !!!

For it is PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to correctly identify molten materials by sight alone ... period !!!

So no ... no-one here thinks or believes those eyewitnesses "fabricated" those testimonies ... just that they MISTAKENLY thought it was steel !!!

Stop trying to put words in our mouths ... we know they genuinely and in innocent honesty thought they were witnessing molten steel ... but you NEED discount all the OTHER materials that can melt (at sometimes quite low temperatures) and look like steel ... FIRST ... before victoriously declaring "steel".

Have you done that ???

If there is a logical, non-incendiary explanation for the finding of glowing materials, why do all official reports omit references to the finding of glowing rubble?
Because molten metals or ANYTHING is NOT indicative of or proof of explosives, therm*te or any other nonsense dreampt up by twoofs ...

EXPLOSIVES DO NOT CREATE POOLS OF ANYTHING

THERM*TE DOES NOT CREATE POOLS OF ANYTHING

THERM*TE DOES NOT REACT TO STILL BE THERE WEEKS LATER !!!
.

Finding molten "anything" is a total non-sequitur ... it means NOTHING !!!

Rubble piles are effective insulators ... the rubble pile on 9/11 was HUGE ... there were literally thousands of objects contained within that could melt in continual steady heat ... but it means no more than it was hot in there.

The heat was self-substaining ... like in a COMPOST heap.

Why can you not get this simple point that finding molten "anything" is not suspicous ... so why should it have been investigated ???

Why is someone "weak minded" if they point out that official reports are incomplete?
Because there not !!!

Because there is AMPLE information which fully explains the science and engineering behind this from all over this planet ... besides there is no such thing as an "official report" ... there were ENGINEERING reports done by NIST, FEMA, ASCE which have been examined by relevent experts WORLD-WIDE whom CHANGED building codes to reflect the findings.

The explanations are grounded in known science ... which can easily be found, maybe not understood ... but that does NOT, in any way, diminish the truth of it !!!

But "official report" is a misnomer ... as it is, in fact, a CONSENSUS between hundreds of different professional bodies !!!

If Super-Thermite is still secret, then how will ordinary citizens wtihout top secret clearances, know for sure, super thermite was not used?
If it was so damm secret why is it plastered all over the internet ... give me a break :roll:

Don't you just love the naivety of conspiracists ... all this stuff is supposedly THUPER THECRET yet it is spilling out of sites, forums, blogs and YooToobs ... grow up !!!

Besides Thuper Thermite exists solely in the imagination of twoofs ... it is a fantasy brought to life to fill the HUGE gap in explaining the lack of explosives and noise on 9/11.

Thermite as a "thuper" ingredient is still very much at research stage ... and super or nano just means ground finer ... it DOESN'T make it more powerful ... it has the same energy signal and output, but it just burns faster ... period !!!

Here's a wee hint, Gladiator ... try using Google Scholar instead of conspiracy sites ... much more credible !!!

Here is a thermite reaction for you ...



Explain how it would work in the REAL world at the WTC ... bet you can't/won't !!!

Do you have a top secret clearance for the top 30 industrialized nations military and intelligence services?
Ah! but then I'd have to keel you if I told you ... ;)

I feel very comfortable with my ignorance of not knowing what really hapened on 9-11. I have not seen sufficient information on DP, or elsewwhere, to alleviate my doubts about any "explanation".
You shouldn't ... there is a plethora of legitimate and credible sources out there that FULLY explain it ... ignorance should never be "comfortable" !!!
 

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So are you calling the firefighters at the scene....with their well documented statements liars?
No one's calling them liars. They're probably just mistaken. As a firefighter, I know that you can't stand that close to a 2000 degree heat source with no effective protection without getting badly burnt.
 

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So are you calling the firefighters at the scene....with their well documented statements liars?
Do not put words in my mouth. They are mistaken. The onus is on them (and you) to show that they were looking at molten steel. Considering the physics, what they are saying is impossible, thus the burden is not met.

Please explain to us how a person can stand next to an object that is at least 2000° F in equipment that is only rated to handle 1/4th the temperature and keep from vaporizing.
 
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majora$$hole

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could someone please give me another example of a hi-rise building fire that leveled the building and burned for 3 months not a few weeks?
 

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could someone please give me another example of a hi-rise building fire that leveled the building and burned for 3 months not a few weeks?
Could someone please point to a fire as big as the one in 9-11, that leveled buildings as big as the Twin Towers, and any form of thermite that leaves molten pools for months?
 
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creativedreams

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After having been to a steel foundry, I can tell you molten steel is far too hot for a human to stand anywhere near it. I stood probably 100' away from where the red-hot (not even molten) steel beams were rolling out and it was almost too hot to stay that close. Those firefighters were nowhere near any molten steel, unless they have some super-secret equipment that can withstand temperatures of over 2000° F.

.
Watch the witnesses again in the documented statements from actual firefighters at the scene.

Why do you dismiss their personal accounts?

You are chosing to believe whatever fits your comfort zone....
 
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I_Gaze_At_The_Blue

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Watch the witnesses again in the documented statements from actual firefighters at the scene.

Why do you dismiss their personal accounts?

You are chosing to believe whatever fits your comfort zone....
NOBODY creative "dismisses" their accounts ... you are being a complete fraud here, by trying to infer we think they lie ... we leave that to your side, you need it more than we !!!

We ACCEPT their testimony for what it is ... traumatized recollections from non-experts ... they were SIMPLY mistaken.

SOME survivors of the Titantic thought the ship broke in half.

SOME thought it went straight down.

RMS Titanic :: Survivors of the Titanic Disaster

Does that make those Titanic survivors liars ... does that mean their accounts be "dismissed" ???

Obviously (well maybe not to you) no ... they are truthful recollections from a frightening, terrifying experience, where it it possible to have wrong impressions.

They are still valid and stand on their own as historic testimony ... and further investigation shows the ship to have broken in half.

Revealed: Titanic was doomed before it set sail - Telegraph

Does that make those whom said it went straight down are "liars" ... of course not, they were SIMPLY MISTAKEN ...

It happens !!!

Just stop with the pathetic twisting of peoples words ... your crap at it, and no-one buys it !!!

"Comfort zone" ... my arse, thats just you using buzzwords to try and sound all intillektul'n'stuff ... another fail there then, creative !!!
 

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Could someone please point to a fire as big as the one in 9-11, that leveled buildings as big as the Twin Towers, and any form of thermite that leaves molten pools for months?
are ment to believe that all that distruction was from jet fuel alone?
 

I_Gaze_At_The_Blue

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are ment to believe that all that distruction was from jet fuel alone?
What incredibly simplistic and one-dimentional thinking ... who says jet fuel was the ONLY thing burning ???

You do realise that huge office and commercial buildings have enormous amounts of contents which are flammable, and by being soaked in jet fuel would then burn hotter and fiercer, as fuel is an ACCELERANT, than they would in isolation ... please tell me you do realize this ... that it was fuel AND contents ???
 
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