Finally Someone is Challenging the Word "Redskins" [W:63]

[P. Kersey]

re: Finally Someone is Challenging the Word "Redskins" [W:63]

I'm saying that any belief in "reverse racism" or even equating racism with blacks hating whites or the denigration of whites is sociologically retarded.

invented strawman fantasy

I'm quite sure you've no idea where my argument is coming from. As you haven't a glimpse of my position and yours is common trash, I'm not gonna debate it with you - it would be a waste of my time.

We know perfectly well why you make snide comments and run away.

 

[ecofarm]

re: Finally Someone is Challenging the Word "Redskins" [W:63]

invented strawman fantasy

We know perfectly well why you make snide comments and run away.

Ok, what's part of the evidence for my position? Everyone knows all the evidence for your position.

 

[American]

re: Finally Someone is Challenging the Word "Redskins" [W:63]

Grow up child and actually read my post. I'm not offended by the word, I wont march over it or sign any petition I just find it odd that people want to be reminded of that period of History. It would be like calling your team the Dachau Gasworkers.

Are the Nazis planning a football team?

 

[Higgins86]

re: Finally Someone is Challenging the Word "Redskins" [W:63]

Are the Nazis planning a football team?

Lol ok. Like I said I'd prefer they changed the name but I'm not going to cry about it if they don't. Plus I know how important those racial slurs are to some white people.
" can't say nigger, redskin anymore. Those damm PC police are gonna take them all away"

 

[Goshin]

re: Finally Someone is Challenging the Word "Redskins" [W:63]

"Reverse racism" is for sociological retards.

Racism is racism, regardless of who is the bigot and what color his skin is... and it is just as ugly regardless of who is the racist.

 

[P. Kersey]

re: Finally Someone is Challenging the Word "Redskins" [W:63]

Lol ok. Like I said I'd prefer they changed the name but I'm not going to cry about it if they don't. Plus I know how important those racial slurs are to some white people.
" can't say nigger, redskin anymore. Those damm PC police are gonna take them all away"

trolling

 

[Higgins86]

re: Finally Someone is Challenging the Word "Redskins" [W:63]

trolling

How is that trolling? Its a racial slur and was used as a racial slur for a number of years, the guy who brought the franchise to Washington and re-named them "the redskins" was also a massive racist. I'm just confused what is it that your defending here?

 

[P. Kersey]

re: Finally Someone is Challenging the Word "Redskins" [W:63]

How is that trolling? Its a racial slur and was used as a racial slur for a number of years, the guy who brought the franchise to Washington and re-named them "the redskins" was also a massive racist. I'm just confused what is it that your defending here?

Obvious trolling.

... I know how important those racial slurs are to some white people.
" can't say nigger, redskin anymore. Those damm PC police are gonna take them all away"

 

[Higgins86]

re: Finally Someone is Challenging the Word "Redskins" [W:63]

Obvious trolling.

alright new kid if you cant answer the questions I suggest finding another site because generally we like to debate on here.

 

[Zyphlin]

re: Finally Someone is Challenging the Word "Redskins" [W:63]

I'm not offended by the word I just find it unnecessary. Despite the fact its a harmless word today is it really a legacy you want to hang onto?

Sure, but that's because I don't see the word and see a "legacy" of hatred towards native americans. I see the word and see a legacy of a football team. I don't see the word and think "Dirty filthy savage". I don't see the word and think "Genocide". I don't see the word and think "SLUR!". I see the word and see a football teams name of more than half a century and whose legacy is associated with it. Perhaps if it was applied to the team as it's mascot/name to disparage native americans, to insult them, to belittle them, etc then I'd feel differently. Then again, I'd feel differently about singing "Hail to the Redskins" if the thing I'm supposed to be hailing was a bad thing. I'd feel differently about proclaiming my support for the "redskin" organizatoin if the thing I was supporting was supposed to be a bad thing. You're generally not naming your team the "Rapists" (Unless perhaps you're in the XFL, or you're Al Davis) because you generally name your teams after neutral things at worst, and positive imagery at best.

 

[Zyphlin]

re: Finally Someone is Challenging the Word "Redskins" [W:63]

I'm a football fan and I don't see why I have to be reminded of genocide when I watch a game. Don't forget its names like the redskins which vilified the native Americans and made it acceptable to hate them and eventually hunt them.

Like I said if the redskins keep their name it won't really bother me it would just confuse me to why people would want that legacy to live on.

Then you must HATE watching Buffalo Games, as the bills are named after the man who helped perpetuate the stereotype of the dangerous warrior savage with his wild west shows, and who helped contribute to some of the issues of that genocide by being an instrumental figure in the extinction of the american bison.

And your mind must leap off to Somolia each time you see the Raiders play, thinking of all the murdering and raping going on perpetrated by those "Raiders" off the horn of Africa.

I truly do feel for you, seemingly unable to watch a football game and not read great socio-political meaning into team names.

 

[Higgins86]

re: Finally Someone is Challenging the Word "Redskins" [W:63]

Sure, but that's because I don't see the word and see a "legacy" of hatred towards native americans. I see the word and see a legacy of a football team. I don't see the word and think "Dirty filthy savage". I don't see the word and think "Genocide". I don't see the word and think "SLUR!". I see the word and see a football teams name of more than half a century and whose legacy is associated with it. Perhaps if it was applied to the team as it's mascot/name to disparage native americans, to insult them, to belittle them, etc then I'd feel differently. Then again, I'd feel differently about singing "Hail to the Redskins" if the thing I'm supposed to be hailing was a bad thing. I'd feel differently about proclaiming my support for the "redskin" organizatoin if the thing I was supporting was supposed to be a bad thing. You're generally not naming your team the "Rapists" (Unless perhaps you're in the XFL, or you're Al Davis) because you generally name your teams after neutral things at worst, and positive imagery at best.

But then your essentially saying that the legacy of the Washington Redskins will eventually wipe out the original meaning of the word which in my opinion will not be the case. To me the word will always represent something ugly and best left forgotten but as said earlier im not going to boycott the NFL over it which I guess make me a hypocrite.

 

[Zyphlin]

re: Finally Someone is Challenging the Word "Redskins" [W:63]

Moderator's Warning:

Cut out the Personal Attacks and the baiting. If you feel like someone is breaking the rules, report it. Discussing who is or isn't trolling is not appropriate discussion for upstairs

 

[Higgins86]

re: Finally Someone is Challenging the Word "Redskins" [W:63]

Then you must HATE watching Buffalo Games, as the bills are named after the man who helped perpetuate the stereotype of the dangerous warrior savage with his wild west shows, and who helped contribute to some of the issues of that genocide by being an instrumental figure in the extinction of the american bison.

And your mind must leap off to Somolia each time you see the Raiders play, thinking of all the murdering and raping going on perpetrated by those "Raiders" off the horn of Africa.

I truly do feel for you, seemingly unable to watch a football game and not read great socio-political meaning into team names.

Fair enough and I feel for you, seemingly willing to forget centuries of racist behaviour and genocide just because your football team is named after it.

 

[Zyphlin]

re: Finally Someone is Challenging the Word "Redskins" [W:63]

But then your essentially saying that the legacy of the Washington Redskins will eventually wipe out the original meaning of the word which in my opinion will not be the case. To me the word will always represent something ugly and best left forgotten but as said earlier im not going to boycott the NFL over it which I guess make me a hypocrite.

And here's where it's clear you've got a FEELING for what this should be, and just cobbling together an argument around it.

You rest your weight on the "original meaning" of the word. The "original meaning" is actually up for debate, with linguistic studies suggesting that it's earliest origins of use were NOT at as a slur but as a descriptor used by native americans and settlers in differentiating between the two groups.

Now, more to your actual point...

No, I don't believe the Washington Redskins legacy will "wipe out" the fact the word once, and at times still is, used as a slur. No more than I believe the New York Yankee's legacy will "wipe out" the fact that the word once, and at times still is, used as slur. However, what I do believe is that the "legacy" of those two things aren't inherently the same exact thing. Words, meanings, definitions, implications, etc change over time. The fact that calling someone "Gay" today can be viewed as an insulting term doesn't "wipe out" the historical meaning of the word being used to connnotate "happy". But that one word, GAY, has multiple meanings, legacies, and impact.

When I see someone say "Hail to the Redskins" I think of "Damn those horrible savage indians" no more than when I see someone say "I think that outfit is totally gay!" I think "He thinks that's a very happy outfit!"

I'm not suggesting the Washington Redskins will "wipe out" the previous meanings of the word. But what I do suggest, and suggest is already happening, is that the in the vast majority of the population they've managed to cause it to be a point where if someone hears the word "Redskin" on it's own, 99 out of 100 times they think you're talking about a Football team and NOT trying to degrade a native american.

 

[Zyphlin]

re: Finally Someone is Challenging the Word "Redskins" [W:63]

Fair enough and I feel for you, seemingly willing to forget centuries of racist behaviour and genocide just because your football team is named after it.

I don't forget it. I just don't foolishly correlate the two as being one in the same

 

[clownboy]

re: Finally Someone is Challenging the Word "Redskins" [W:63]

There is nothing new about this - every decade since the 70s some yahoo get their knickers in a twist over the names of sports teams. The Redskins usually bear the brunt of it. The media joins in and plays along because it sells copy. Give it a year or so and the issue will die off for another decade. Native Americans really don't give two ****s what we call football teams.

 

[jonny5]

re: Finally Someone is Challenging the Word "Redskins" [W:63]

Various names for native americans are used for sports teams because of the positive association with them as fierce warriors. Its not an insult. The same thing keeps happening here in Florida with the Seminoles even though the Seminole tribe itself keeps saying they like it.

 

[jimbo]

re: Finally Someone is Challenging the Word "Redskins" [W:63]

These racist, exclusionary, segregationist, bigoted, biased and inequitable names offend a lot of people.

Should they be forced to change?

Black Legislative Caucus
Black Student's Union
Black Miss America
Black Entertainment Network
Black Policemens Association
Black Liberation and Afrikan Kulcha Empire
Black Male Community Empowerment Forum
Black Millionaires Mentoring Program
Black Voices for Peace
Black Women for Obama
Black Youth Creative Combating Oppression
Blackonomics
American Association of Black in Energy
Associated Black Charities
Association of Black Admission and Financial Aid Officers of the Ivy League and Sister Schools (ABAFAOILSS)
Association of Black American Ambassadors (ABAA)
Association of Black Foundation Executives (ABFE)
Association of Black Sociologist (ABS)
Association of Black Women in Higher Education
Black Agency Executives (BAE)
Black Awareness in Television (BAIT)
Black Caucus of the American Library Association
Black Filmmakers Foundation
Black Psychiatrists of America
Black Retail Action Group, Inc.
Black Women in Publishing
Black Women's Network
Blacks in Government
Coalition of Black Trade Unionists
National Alliance of Black School Educators
National Association of Black Accountants, Inc.
National Association of Black County Officials
National Association of Black Journalists
National Association of Black Social Workers, Inc.
National Association of Black-Owned Broadcasters
National Association of Blacks in Criminal Justice
National Black Caucus of Local Elected Officials
National Black Caucus of State Legislators
National Black Chambers of Commerce
National Black Child Development Institute
National Black Media Coalition
National Black Nurses Association, Inc.
National Black Police Association, Inc.
National Black Public Relations Society of America
National Black United Fund
National Conference of Black Mayors, Inc.
National Forum for Black Public Administrator

And you left out advancing colored people and sending negros off to college.

 

[P. Kersey]

re: Finally Someone is Challenging the Word "Redskins" [W:63]

There is nothing new about this - every decade since the 70s some yahoo get their knickers in a twist over the names of sports teams. The Redskins usually bear the brunt of it. The media joins in and plays along because it sells copy. Give it a year or so and the issue will die off for another decade. Native Americans really don't give two ****s what we call football teams.

malcontents desperately seeking attention and something to be "outraged" about.

 

[P. Kersey]

re: Finally Someone is Challenging the Word "Redskins" [W:63]

And you left out advancing colored people and sending negros off to college.

I'm sure I left out a lot.

 

[Higgins86]

re: Finally Someone is Challenging the Word "Redskins" [W:63]

And here's where it's clear you've got a FEELING for what this should be, and just cobbling together an argument around it.

You rest your weight on the "original meaning" of the word. The "original meaning" is actually up for debate, with linguistic studies suggesting that it's earliest origins of use were NOT at as a slur but as a descriptor used by native americans and settlers in differentiating between the two groups.

Now, more to your actual point...

No, I don't believe the Washington Redskins legacy will "wipe out" the fact the word once, and at times still is, used as a slur. No more than I believe the New York Yankee's legacy will "wipe out" the fact that the word once, and at times still is, used as slur. However, what I do believe is that the "legacy" of those two things aren't inherently the same exact thing. Words, meanings, definitions, implications, etc change over time. The fact that calling someone "Gay" today can be viewed as an insulting term doesn't "wipe out" the historical meaning of the word being used to connnotate "happy". But that one word, GAY, has multiple meanings, legacies, and impact.

When I see someone say "Hail to the Redskins" I think of "Damn those horrible savage indians" no more than when I see someone say "I think that outfit is totally gay!" I think "He thinks that's a very happy outfit!"

I'm not suggesting the Washington Redskins will "wipe out" the previous meanings of the word. But what I do suggest, and suggest is already happening, is that the in the vast majority of the population they've managed to cause it to be a point where if someone hears the word "Redskin" on it's own, 99 out of 100 times they think you're talking about a Football team and NOT trying to degrade a native american.

"cobbling together an argument around it"



Oh please you don't have to cobble any out of this.
Is it a racist slur? Yes
Was it used as a racist slur? Yes
Was the owner who owned them during the move and name change a racist? Yes.


However you justify your teams name is obviously up to you and understandable considering you probably heard of the redskins before you even knew the history of the word itself. Yes most people when they hear that word think of the American football team but just because people over time have become used to the name and maybe have forgotten the racial history behind the name doesn't now make it right. The team was named back when racism was more acceptable and even expected however we have evolved as a society and certain things which used to be acceptable are no longer. I'm personally not going to petition for the name to be changed as being a Patriots fan who lives in the UK its not really my place, however I don't think anyone who lobbies to change this name is out of line and if you think they are I honestly find that laughable.
Again just because your ok with and used to it doesn't mean everyone else is and its also worth pointing out that not everyone is a football fan and to some people who don't follow the game that team name could be very shocking/ offensive.

 

[P. Kersey]

racist slur
racist slur
racist
you probably
most people
maybe have
racial history
racism
could be

alright new kid if you cant answer the questions I suggest finding another site because generally we like to debate on here.

Yes..great "debate" tactics you have there. I wouldn't stand a chance. :roll: LMFAO

 

[rhinefire]

Thank you for Wikipedia's opinion on it. It's interesting you're now falling back on just quoting wiki without any further input rather than addressing legitimate sourced points being stated in this thread. Could it be because you have no leg to stand on?

Please, continue to tell those Native Americans that you know better as to what they should find offensive and what they should desire in terms of sports teams names. You the white man CLEARLY knows better than them.

You the uninformed now ask how many of the Native American would OBJECT to wiping it off. I'll consult your website inthedark.com instead of Wiki next time.

 

[Zyphlin]

You the uninformed now ask how many of the Native American would OBJECT to wiping it off. I'll consult your website inthedark.com instead of Wiki next time.

I'm the uninformed one? I'll point out, I'm the only one out of the two of usthat's provided any actual supporting documentation in regards to the basis of my opinions that goes beyond a publicly editable "encyclopedia" that, I might add, even acknowledges the difference between the use of the word's history and use in sports.

I don't ask how many would object. I've already posted links to actual polling done within the native american population showing how much object to the name being used. You continue to skim over that or ANYTHING else I say and just keep basically repeating "It's offensive" over and over again while not responding to anything people say.