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Finally, Oregon Decriminalizes 'Hard' Drugs.

The Old Soul

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This is a great start to coping with the 'other' drug issue; no way in the world's wildest dreams will Schedule I or Schedule II mind altering and/or intoxicating substances be eliminated or legislated away - the best road to living with this fact is to get it out in the open. Let those who will benefit from using psychosomatic drugs obtain clean chemicals from legal suppliers, help those who have hopelessly addictive personalities cope with their lifestyle with minimal impact on society at large, offer treatment to those who want to quit but are afraid of admitting their addiction for fear of incarceration and having their lives destroyed by misdirected laws, and leave the rest of us responsible adults alone.

Oregon Passes Smart Drug Legislation
 
Drugs are and should be treated as a health issue, not as a crime. Just as well psilocybin than many prescription psychoactive drugs. I shouldn't change DUI laws, etc. Plenty of prescription drugs people drive around on that they shouldn't be. Why not a prescription for alcohol? Why do you think it's used? For the taste?
 
Drugs are and should be treated as a health issue, not as a crime. Just as well psilocybin than many prescription psychoactive drugs. I shouldn't change DUI laws, etc. Plenty of prescription drugs people drive around on that they shouldn't be. Why not a prescription for alcohol? Why do you think it's used? For the taste?
Alcohol is proof positive mind altering and intoxicating drugs will never be eliminated here or anyplace in the world. Consider how Americans of all ages are indoctrinated into being drinkers; virtually every movie involves alcohol to some extent, from Durwood having Samantha mixing him a 'Double' after a tough day at work, to movies, programs, and advertisements that are set in Bars (like Cheers), or some some connection with the alcohol industry or just recreational drinking; and most usually, in a positive light. If it wasn't for saloons and drunks, most westerns would not even exist.
 
Drugs are and should be treated as a health issue, not as a crime. Just as well psilocybin than many prescription psychoactive drugs. I shouldn't change DUI laws, etc. Plenty of prescription drugs people drive around on that they shouldn't be. Why not a prescription for alcohol? Why do you think it's used? For the taste?
The industry would lobby against such a requirement.
 
Drugs are and should be treated as a health issue, not as a crime. Just as well psilocybin than many prescription psychoactive drugs. I shouldn't change DUI laws, etc. Plenty of prescription drugs people drive around on that they shouldn't be. Why not a prescription for alcohol? Why do you think it's used? For the taste?
Thinking about it I agree, but from a different angle than the 'prescription' approach - too many drugs fall under the Script umbrella already. Psychedelics in particular can and do 'cure' alcoholism. An ancient ceremony using a boiled plant concoction called Ayahuasca has been performed for a thousand years mainly by natives in the Peruvian forest has been a successful treatment for many; the stories of how a few days of Ayahuasca induced self-realization and introspection has cured many alcoholics, and given them a new lease-on-life. Why Western civilization has attempted to erase the efficacy of many tried and true natural treatments for the sake of man-made chemicals is self defeating, and motivated by profit.
 
Thinking about it I agree, but from a different angle than the 'prescription' approach - too many drugs fall under the Script umbrella already. Psychedelics in particular can and do 'cure' alcoholism. An ancient ceremony using a boiled plant concoction called Ayahuasca has been performed for a thousand years mainly by natives in the Peruvian forest has been a successful treatment for many; the stories of how a few days of Ayahuasca induced self-realization and introspection has cured many alcoholics, and given them a new lease-on-life. Why Western civilization has attempted to erase the efficacy of many tried and true natural treatments for the sake of man-made chemicals is self defeating, and motivated by profit.


"induced self-realization and introspection" makes it sound rather a singular experience when it was traditionally supervised by a shaman and, in modern psychiatry, a therapist, pretty much a talk therapist, to do with psilocybin. Not recommended as an individual, unsupervised experience for treatment of alcoholism, anxiety and depression.

The prescription approach assures purity of the substance. It is known that psilocybin works, but not exactly how or why, though not so well unsupervised and yet known, if any, negative side effects. W/o the prescription approach, you could be sold anything.
 
Alcohol is proof positive mind altering and intoxicating drugs will never be eliminated here or anyplace in the world. Consider how Americans of all ages are indoctrinated into being drinkers; virtually every movie involves alcohol to some extent, from Durwood having Samantha mixing him a 'Double' after a tough day at work, to movies, programs, and advertisements that are set in Bars (like Cheers), or some some connection with the alcohol industry or just recreational drinking; and most usually, in a positive light. If it wasn't for saloons and drunks, most westerns would not even exist.


If not for saloons and drunkenness, a lot of getting lucky and bad memory would not exist.
 
If not for saloons and drunkenness, a lot of getting lucky and bad memory would not exist.
During my business travel days, I picked up 2 women in hotel bars. Memories....
 
Why not a prescription for alcohol?

So an adult would need a prescription from a doctor in order to have a drink.

If anyone doubts the connection between progressivism and totalitarianism, there's some evidence for you.
 
The prescription approach assures purity of the substance. (snip) W/o the prescription approach, you could be sold anything.
The regulation approach assures purity, quality, and potency labeling. No prescription required.
 
During my business travel days, I picked up 2 women in hotel bars. Memories....


When traveling with a band, we'd practically take the entire waitress staff with us back to our hotel. Not all at once. They'd drift in as their shifts ended.
 
So an adult would need a prescription from a doctor in order to have a drink.

If anyone doubts the connection between progressivism and totalitarianism, there's some evidence for you.


No, I'm not recommending a prescription requirement for alcohol. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of allowing alcohol but not liberalizing drug laws.
 
No, I'm not recommending a prescription requirement for alcohol. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of allowing alcohol but not liberalizing drug laws.

Do you agree alcohol is a relatively dangerous drug?
 
"induced self-realization and introspection"
makes it sound rather a singular experience when it was traditionally supervised by a shaman and, in modern psychiatry, a therapist, pretty much a talk therapist, to do with psilocybin. Not recommended as an individual, unsupervised experience for treatment of alcoholism, anxiety and depression.
For hundreds if not thousands of years, psychedelics were never a 'problem' when used in rituals and shaman guided experiences; the W.O.D. erased the guidance part in first world countries, which prompted unsupervised recreational (and therapeutic) use due to availability and exploitation of the substances without proper guidance and insight. Oregon had already taken a step in the right direction with previous legislation allowing certain religious groups to partake in said ritual using Ayahuasca, and reent directives have just taken it one step further.
The prescription approach assures purity of the substance. It is known that psilocybin works, but not exactly how or why, though not so well unsupervised and yet known, if any, negative side effects. W/o the prescription approach, you could be sold anything.
Like moonshine made with leaded car radiators for a condensor. Since psylocibin, and virtually all other natural psychedelics are non-toxic, staying with plant matter (like mushrooms or mimosa) guarantees a non-fatal experience. The problem arizes when lab created drugs (like LSD) are laced with strychnine do issues arise.
No, I'm not recommending a prescription requirement for alcohol. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of allowing alcohol but not liberalizing drug laws.
100% agree and your point was clear; anti drug laws and popularization of alcohol is the result of the influence of money and control of a popular mind and mood altering substance since there is no therapeutic benefit to injesting alcohol. It boils down to political and monetary influences, and has nothing to do with public safety or benefit to the population at large.
 
The regulation approach assures purity, quality, and potency labeling. No prescription required.


Pharms and Physicians have purity, quality and labeling standards, too, which are regulated, that they go by in order to write a prescription. These drugs aren't necessarily what one should take when not under a doctor's care, so a prescription confirms that, including regs and quality standards.
 
Pharms and Physicians have purity, quality and labeling standards, too, which are regulated, that they go by in order to write a prescription. These drugs aren't necessarily what one should take when not under a doctor's care, so a prescription confirms that, including regs and quality standards.
Sorry to butt in, but with non-traditional treatments, and most natural drugs and preparations, general practice physicians are not properly equipped, trained, nor encouraged to step outside the box when prescribing. There is not enough certified and/or approved information available to risk their practice or license on. Take MMJ (Medical MJ) for instance - few MD's will officially condone or approve use for these same reasons, even though they may accept the efficacy non-professionally.

With Schedule I and II drugs readily available on the street, regulation would be a good start to getting these drugs out of the shadows and the court rooms, so research and information can be gathered objectively; then MD's and Psychologists could make informed and beneficial recommendations. Also, drug companies would have the green light to certifying and marketing many of these substances. Groundwork has already been laid, but most research has been silenced and buried by governments since the 1960's through protest and legislation. Research suggests that some substances such as LSD are both safe and effective:

From Wikipedia: LSD was brought to the attention of the United States in 1949 by Sandoz Laboratories because they believed LSD might have clinical applications.
In one study in the late 1950s, Dr. H. Osmond gave LSD to alcoholics in Alcoholics Anonymous who had failed to quit drinking. After one year, around 50% of the study group had not had a drink — a success rate that has never been duplicated by any other means.
From the late 1940s through the mid-1970s, extensive research and testing was conducted on LSD. During a 15-year period beginning in 1950, research on LSD and other hallucinogens generated over 1,000 scientific papers, several dozen books, and six international conferences. Overall, LSD was prescribed as treatment to over 40,000 patients successfully (no one died or suffered physical contraindications).
 
For hundreds if not thousands of years, psychedelics were never a 'problem' when used in rituals and shaman guided experiences; the W.O.D. erased the guidance part in first world countries, which prompted unsupervised recreational (and therapeutic) use due to availability and exploitation of the substances without proper guidance and insight. Oregon had already taken a step in the right direction with previous legislation allowing certain religious groups to partake in said ritual using Ayahuasca, and reent directives have just taken it one step further.

Like moonshine made with leaded car radiators for a condensor. Since psylocibin, and virtually all other natural psychedelics are non-toxic, staying with plant matter (like mushrooms or mimosa) guarantees a non-fatal experience. The problem arizes when lab created drugs (like LSD) are laced with strychnine do issues arise.

100% agree and your point was clear; anti drug laws and popularization of alcohol is the result of the influence of money and control of a popular mind and mood altering substance since there is no therapeutic benefit to injesting alcohol. It boils down to political and monetary influences, and has nothing to do with public safety or benefit to the population at large.

My context is in medicinal use, not recreational, spiritual or self-medicating. Depending on the drug, I have no problem with it being as available as alcohol. Just like with a shaman, though spiritual, I believe a trained person is most important in supervision of someone taking some specific psychedelic or another for a mental condition, incl alcohol abuse.
Prescription/pharma standards are a much better guarantee of quality, grade and purity than the open market. My Omega-3 fish oil caps are pharma grade that I would have had to search through several dozen varieties in the so-called herbal/natural shops to find the right combination of docosahexaenoic acid [DHA] and eicosapentaenoic acid [EPA] dosage, and it’s really expensive, and then a few months later it’s off the shelf.

Psilocybin does not contain toxins, peyote mescaline does and Ayahuasca can have toxic effects. However, you’d have to take an awful lot of the stuff. There are hallucinogenic plants of high toxicity that result in very bad experience, but the indigenous peoples know to avoid them, such as the many varieties of psilocybin mushrooms.
When I said “you could be sold anything”, I meant such as LSD laced, non-psilocybin mushrooms.

Yeah. Political and monetary influence had a lot to do with outlawing marijuana as a threat to William Randolph Hearst publishing and timber empire. Although what marijuana being grown for paper, rope, etc. was hardly, if at all, psychoactive.
 
Do you agree alcohol is a relatively dangerous drug?


Absolutely. As are many prescription drugs provided patients who can abuse them, just as with alcohol, inhibiting response and getting in an accident of some kind, especially vehicular. In those cases, it's the actions taken because of the drug, not the drug itself, that causes harm or death. Still, you can die from single incident alcohol poisoning just as with overdosing on various kinds of prescribed drugs.
 
Sorry to butt in, but with non-traditional treatments, and most natural drugs and preparations, general practice physicians are not properly equipped, trained, nor encouraged to step outside the box when prescribing. There is not enough certified and/or approved information available to risk their practice or license on. Take MMJ (Medical MJ) for instance - few MD's will officially condone or approve use for these same reasons, even though they may accept the efficacy non-professionally.

With Schedule I and II drugs readily available on the street, regulation would be a good start to getting these drugs out of the shadows and the court rooms, so research and information can be gathered objectively; then MD's and Psychologists could make informed and beneficial recommendations. Also, drug companies would have the green light to certifying and marketing many of these substances. Groundwork has already been laid, but most research has been silenced and buried by governments since the 1960's through protest and legislation. Research suggests that some substances such as LSD are both safe and effective:

From Wikipedia: LSD was brought to the attention of the United States in 1949 by Sandoz Laboratories because they believed LSD might have clinical applications.
In one study in the late 1950s, Dr. H. Osmond gave LSD to alcoholics in Alcoholics Anonymous who had failed to quit drinking. After one year, around 50% of the study group had not had a drink — a success rate that has never been duplicated by any other means.
From the late 1940s through the mid-1970s, extensive research and testing was conducted on LSD. During a 15-year period beginning in 1950, research on LSD and other hallucinogens generated over 1,000 scientific papers, several dozen books, and six international conferences. Overall, LSD was prescribed as treatment to over 40,000 patients successfully (no one died or suffered physical contraindications).


You're not butting in. I'm quite familiar with all you mentioned and prefer to graduate discussion/debate than be encyclopedic in one post, though you encapsulated in one post quite fine, thank you.

The main thing is as you say, the "pros" aren't trained nor are there really those who can be said qualified to even train others as we don't yet know how to administer such drugs due to our govt oppression/suppression/depression. If something is too good to be true, it probably isn't true. And one reason for that is govt prevention from being proved true. We have the humanity/technology to make all we've been discussing happen for the betterment of people and society.
 
You're not butting in. I'm quite familiar with all you mentioned and prefer to graduate discussion/debate than be encyclopedic in one post, though you encapsulated in one post quite fine, thank you.
I would never be good at Twitter...

Another interesting article popped up for me today about psilocybin and end of life anxiety most specifically. With ingestible plant matter (or properly extracted agents), QC is not an issue, and often the information from the private sector on proper usage and what to expect is quite accurate (Erowid comes to mind).
Inside the growing movement to decriminalize psychedelic therapies

I couldn't agree more with the issue of synthetic and black-market purity; back in 1970 my first brush with LSD (it was not such a taboo then) was with an experience with genuine pharmaceutical (Sandos?) produced drug; it was a smooth and enlightening experience. The military person who sourced the capsules (he only had 2), was unable to procure more, so shortly thereafter a black market dealer offered us some 4-way blotter - it was definitely cut with something; we suspected strychnine. It was rough - the unexpected body high was most unpleasant and resulted in a 6 hour long teeth clenching fest. Actual drug effects were familiar, but not what we had hoped. That was such a tun-off that I never tried again.
 
I'm for legalizing any drug that can be tested on the roadside and an "intoxication" limit set that will stand up in court. Like .08 is for alcohol.
 
Alcohol is proof positive mind altering and intoxicating drugs will never be eliminated here or anyplace in the world. Consider how Americans of all ages are indoctrinated into being drinkers; virtually every movie involves alcohol to some extent, from Durwood having Samantha mixing him a 'Double' after a tough day at work, to movies, programs, and advertisements that are set in Bars (like Cheers), or some some connection with the alcohol industry or just recreational drinking; and most usually, in a positive light. If it wasn't for saloons and drunks, most westerns would not even exist.

If you or others are that influenced by a movie (that you either start or increase drinking/drugging because you saw it in a movie or TV show) I would suggest that you get rid of all TVs and streaming devices before you end up as a crack and cocaine addict.
 
If you or others are that influenced by a movie (that you either start or increase drinking/drugging because you saw it in a movie or TV show) I would suggest that you get rid of all TVs and streaming devices before you end up as a crack and cocaine addict.
argumentum ad hominem
 
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