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Finally my breakdown on JK Rowling's transphobic letter

So is sealioning. When you claim that it is "impossible to judge if you are correct" based purely on your own refusal across multiple posts to do three seconds' worth of googling, it's pretty obvious that you have no interest in learning or in truth.
It's not my job to do your (or OP's) homework for you. If you make a claim, ****ing cite it instead of demanding others look it up. That is not an unreasonable request.

I addressed the article you linked to. If you have anything else to say on the substance, go for it. But I'm not going to argue with you about OP's inability to cite his sources, because frankly it's tedious, and your reflexive tribalistic desire to defend him on even the pettiest and silliest thing is a perfect encapsulation of your entire activist movement.
 
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Contrapoints always puts out bangers. Love her.
I never watched any of her videos until I saw the first half of the one posted in this thread. A page later I'm reading a post saying Rowling said nothing hateful and all she's doing is defending people:

There is nothing even remotely hateful in any of Rowling's words there. The best you've got is that she defended someone who...doesn't think biological males can become women? Even THAT opinion isn't hateful. It's totally mainstream, perhaps the majority view.

"JK Rowling defended someone who voiced a mainstream opinion with which I disagree" is hardly evidence that JK Rowling is an evil transphobic bigot fascist whatever.

It drove home the point the video makes about not equating bigotry with hate (it's often far more subtle than that) and how bigotry is not always as direct as showing open contempt, using slurs or promoting violence. It's often shown in indirect ways and disguised as showing concern for the group being discriminated against, or defending another group of people or free speech. I probably wouldn't have thought about a post like this in that way if I hadn't watched the video.

direct-indirect-bigotry.png

Image taken from this part of the video:

 
And I'm sure the compassionate thoughts of the religious folk are with all the people convinced that they're gay when they're really not, the majority of them, victims of the gay agenda. Your opinions and your rhetoric stand in wonderful company, telling other people who and what they're really meant to be.
Yours does if you're not happy with something just undergo a procedure and change it that's conversion therapy I don't see how it's any different.

I had to accept my sexuality I couldn't go through some conversion to change it I just can't believe people have just done a 180 on this.
 
It's not my job to do your (or OP's) homework for you. If you make a claim, ****ing cite it instead of demanding others look it up. That is not an unreasonable request.

I addressed the article you linked to. If you have anything else to say on the substance, go for it. But I'm not going to argue with you about OP's inability to cite his sources, because frankly it's tedious, and your reflexive tribalistic desire to defend him on even the pettiest and silliest thing is a perfect encapsulation of your entire activist movement.
I already addressed your post in as much detail as i can and provided evidence that shows Maya was not wrongfully terminated even in posts not directed towards you.

I cited my sources ad nauseam. I dont need anyone to defend me and soon enough the mote and bailey trick wont work anymore.
 
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Yours does if you're not happy with something just undergo a procedure and change it that's conversion therapy I don't see how it's any different.

I had to accept my sexuality I couldn't go through some conversion to change it I just can't believe people have just done a 180 on this.

Changing one’s gender identity would be conversion therapy. Sex changes tend to have much more positive and less torturous results than conversion therapy.
 
I already addressed your post in as much detail as i can and provided evidence that shows Maya was not wrongfully terminated even in posts not directed towards you.

Yes, JK Rowling is the Great Satan because she protested the firing of someone else, who was fired for retweeting an article by someone else. The article was so bad that anyone two degrees removed from its author should be shunned and their descendants banished for three generations. Very Maoist.

I cited my sources ad nauseam. I dont need anyone to defend me and soon enough the mote and bailey trick wont work anymore.
Apparently you don't know what a motte and bailey is, because it has nothing to do with citing sources. It's just a buzzword you read on social media without understanding. Have a good day.
 
First of all, this is the first i've heard of inclusion violating the rights of others

Until now, female identity has been partially defined as the struggle of women has been against men. When a man can transition into a woman, this is much like a Nazi becoming a Jew or a white becoming a Black (in the spirit of 'inclusion'). These victim identities are partially, if not mostly, defined by their relationship to their oppressor. Inclusion is meaningless when there are "exclusive" groups defined.

Define a Black without mentioning white people or slavery, define a Jew without mentioning the holocaust, and describe what it means to be a woman without mentioning men - all very difficult things to do.
 
Until now, female identity has been partially defined as the struggle of women has been against men. When a man can transition into a woman, this is much like a Nazi becoming a Jew or a white becoming a Black (in the spirit of 'inclusion'). These victim identities are partially, if not mostly, defined by their relationship to their oppressor. Inclusion is meaningless when there are "exclusive" groups defined.
Psychological gender identity. You don't understand it.

Define a Black without mentioning white people or slavery, define a Jew without mentioning the holocaust, and describe what it means to be a woman without mentioning men - all very difficult things to do.
 
Changing one’s gender identity would be conversion therapy. Sex changes tend to have much more positive and less torturous results than conversion therapy.
False. There are quite a few people who have had sex changes that are extraordinarily unhappy and unhealthy.

I don't know why people ignore this.
 
Psychological gender identity. You don't understand it.

A woman is more than her psychology - as swim competitions wil attest to. Keep in mind that I'm not arguing against someone living the way they want to live, and I understand that calling a transwoman a "woman" has all the appearances of a nice thing to do. I get the 'acceptance' part of it.

However, a trans becoming part of a group that fought for suffrage, abortion rights, maternity leave, etc is a co-opting of indentity - I thought women are supposed to be sacred with democrats.
 
False. There are quite a few people who have had sex changes that are extraordinarily unhappy and unhealthy.

I don't know why people ignore this.
There's people who undergo chemotherapy who suffer from it and still die. So no more chemotherapy, right? No more heart transplants, no more vaccinations (hell, conservatives really did go ham on that one, didn't they?)... no medicine at all, basically. Every procedure has a risk of side effects, and a risk of simple failure. For medically-transitioned trans people, the rate of 'de-transitioning' is around 8%... and most of those don't regret their decisions. ~95% is a very good success rate, but that means propagandists can still find hundreds of failure stories to use for duping the bigots and simpletons.
 
There's people who undergo chemotherapy who suffer from it and still die. So no more chemotherapy, right? No more heart transplants, no more vaccinations (hell, conservatives really did go ham on that one, didn't they?)... no medicine at all, basically. Every procedure has a risk of side effects, and a risk of simple failure.
you think your heart surgery and chemotherapy are the equivalent of plastic surgery?

You were saying in the other thread about this object the only reason to transition is so that conservatives are fooled.
For medically-transitioned trans people, the rate of 'de-transitioning' is around 8%... and most of those don't regret their decisions. ~95% is a very good success rate,
so Because only 8% of the time you destroyed somebody it's okay? Their injuries in the advantage that was taking of them doesn't matter? Why is this the only subject that that's the case for?
but that means propagandists can still find hundreds of failure stories to use for duping the bigots and simpletons.
This seems to be more of a political issue to you than really caring about people. In one post you say they have to transition to please conservatives that you think hate them. And in this one you're dismissing human suffering because it's just 8%. What do trans people make up less than 1%?

Why do low numbers matter when it's something you support but then they don't matter when it goes against that?

Who puts the percentages the population that really struggles with this? You should just throw away the notion of sex because less than one person of the population has a problem of it?
 
so Because only 8% of the time you destroyed somebody it's okay? Their injuries in the advantage that was taking of them doesn't matter? Why is this the only subject that that's the case for?
Of course not, it would be far better if the success rate was 100% as with any medical procedure. But if you were a doctor and you had a suffering patient whose quality of life could see substantial improvement from a medical procedure that had a 92% success rate, would you not recommend it to them? I think most doctors would, and I think many patients even knowing the risks would jump at the opportunity.
 
Of course not, it would be far better if the success rate was 100% as with any medical procedure.
it's plastic surgery. We don't let 16 years olds smoke or have tattoos
But if you were a doctor and you had a suffering patient whose quality of life could see substantial improvement from a medical procedure that had a 92% success rate, would you not recommend it to them?
No if I was a medical doctor I'd refer them to a psychologist. Just like I would if I had a patient that was a 16 year old girl that wanted a breast enlargement. If you place your value in how you look you have a poor body image. No amount of surgery will fix that.
I think most doctors would, and I think many patients even knowing the risks would jump at the opportunity.
To me that's an ethical issue. Treating mental issues with surgery is insane.
 
it's plastic surgery. We don't let 16 years olds smoke or have tattoos
No if I was a medical doctor I'd refer them to a psychologist. Just like I would if I had a patient that was a 16 year old girl that wanted a breast enlargement. If you place your value in how you look you have a poor body image. No amount of surgery will fix that. To me that's an ethical issue. Treating mental issues with surgery is insane.
You don't agree with the treatment, but it's what medical professionals often recommend and it works, as the 92% success rate shows. I'll go with the professionals and the data on this one.
 
You don't agree with the treatment, but it's what medical professionals often recommend and it works, as the 92% success rate shows. I'll go with the professionals and the data on this one.
It's not a treatment it's plastic surgery or hormone dampening that has nothing to do with the underlying cause.

"Professionals" just want money. Recommending gobs of plastic surgery and corrective surgery for life is how they own mansions and boats.

Trust that if you want but I doubt it's out of altruism.
 
It's not a treatment it's plastic surgery or hormone dampening that has nothing to do with the underlying cause.
By underlying cause do you mean gender dysphoria, where a person feels distressed from their sex they were assigned at birth not matching the gender they identify as? A person's physical appearance not matching the gender they identify as has a lot to do with gender dysphoria, so I'm not sure I understand your criticism here of a treatment that directly addresses that.

"Professionals" just want money. Recommending gobs of plastic surgery and corrective surgery for life is how they own mansions and boats.

Trust that if you want but I doubt it's out of altruism.
They "just" want money? That is absolutely one motivation for being a medical professional, but it's certainly not the only and maybe not even the primary motivation for many. I myself can think of at least one reason why someone might be motivated to become a medical professional that I would consider altruistic.

Also, surgery is not the only treatment here and it's certainly not the first option that's explored:

The goal of gender dysphoria treatment is to address the distress and other negative emotions associated with having a gender that doesn't align with your assigned sex at birth. It's important to remember that the problem isn't your gender identity, it's the discomfort associated with it. That's why treating gender dysphoria is best accomplished through a team approach with clinicians from different specialties, including psychology, social work, endocrinology, urology and surgery.

 
By underlying cause do you mean gender dysphoria, where a person feels distressed from their sex they were assigned at birth not matching the gender they identify as? A person's physical appearance not matching the gender they identify as has a lot to do with gender dysphoria, so I'm not sure I understand your criticism here of a treatment that directly addresses that.
Nobody is ever assigned sex at birth. Sex is determined 13 weeks it's determined by genetics.

There is all of this mythology surrounding this in order to deny reality. Sex is most definitely assigned before birth by the chromosomes in your body. Biology assigned sex.

Gender identity doesn't require surgery. And that won't help the underlying problem. Because even if you do you'll still be the sex you were born as because it's genetic.

Saying to people that this will fix then as though something is wrong is sadistic.
They "just" want money? That is absolutely one motivation for being a medical professional, but it's certainly not the only and maybe not even the primary motivation for many.
Well we are talking about plastic surgeons people who make millions on talking advantage of broken people's insecurity.
I myself can think of at least one reason why someone might be motivated to become a medical professional that I would consider altruistic.
Again we're talking about plastic surgeons.
Also, surgery is not the only treatment here and it's certainly not the first option that's explored:
It's not a treatment at all it's cosmetic. It doesn't really do anything to effect the underlying condition.


Supporting this insecurity in children seems abusive to me.

Further giving a child hormone dampening drugs doesn't change their sex, we can't do that. It requires replacing every cell in their body. Remember sex is determined that 13 weeks and it's based on genetics.
 
Nobody is ever assigned sex at birth. Sex is determined 13 weeks it's determined by genetics.
I have a certificate, one of the most important identity documents I have and the only really formal one I had for eighteen years, which says "Sex: Male." It wasn't written up when my mother was 13 weeks pregnant. Care to hazard a guess what it's called?

Maybe Trump's next grift can be telling his cult that his people have uncovered Obama's 13 week gestation certificate, despite the deep state-trans agenda efforts to bury it :unsure:
 
Nobody is ever assigned sex at birth. Sex is determined 13 weeks it's determined by genetics.

There is all of this mythology surrounding this in order to deny reality. Sex is most definitely assigned before birth by the chromosomes in your body. Biology assigned sex.

Gender identity doesn't require surgery. And that won't help the underlying problem. Because even if you do you'll still be the sex you were born as because it's genetic.

Saying to people that this will fix then as though something is wrong is sadistic.

Yes, I'm aware of biological sex and that it's something that develops while the baby is in the womb. That is what I meant when I said "sex assigned at birth". Apologies for the confusion.

I'm still not completely sure what you mean by "underlying problem"? Are you referring to gender dysphoria or a person's gender identity not matching their biological sex? Because there's nothing wrong with a person's gender identity not matching their biological sex, it's only when they experience distress from this that it becomes an issue that often requires treatment (that's what gender dysphoria is). Trying to relieve them of or "fix" what's causing their distress is not at all sadistic.
Well we are talking about plastic surgeons people who make millions on talking advantage of broken people's insecurity.
Again we're talking about plastic surgeons.
It's not a treatment at all it's cosmetic. It doesn't really do anything to effect the underlying condition.
If it's used to treat the person's gender dysphoria then it is in fact a treatment. And if it cures it what difference does it make if the treatment was cosmetic?
Supporting this insecurity in children seems abusive to me.

Further giving a child hormone dampening drugs doesn't change their sex, we can't do that. It requires replacing every cell in their body. Remember sex is determined that 13 weeks and it's based on genetics.
By insecurity do you mean gender dysphoria? And by support do you mean offer treatment? Why is it abusive to offer treatment to someone who is suffering? I would argue that it would be abusive not to.
 
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I have a certificate, one of the most important identity documents I have and the only really formal one I had for eighteen years, which says "Sex: Male." It wasn't written up when my mother was 13 weeks pregnant. Care to hazard a guess what it's called?
it doesn't matter it didn't assign your sex sex isn't an assignment it was determined in the womb at 13 weeks by genetics.

Someone can observe that you are the sex and upon birth record it that's not assignment.
 
*sigh* This forum continues to reinforce my opinion that nobody is going to change their minds, no matter how much you try to clarify what actually happened.
JK likes to insist that she has always supported trans people but she has never actually proven it. Considering how much she enjoys defending people actively hostile to trans people and those who create hostile environments for trans people well that just comes across as you trying to use a shield #notyourshield

If you didn’t already know – and why should you? – ‘TERF’ is an acronym coined by trans activists, which stands for Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminist. In practice, a huge and diverse cross-section of women are currently being called TERFs and the vast majority have never been radical feminists. Examples of so-called TERFs range from the mother of a gay child who was afraid their child wanted to transition to escape homophobic bullying, to a hitherto totally unfeminist older lady who’s vowed never to visit Marks & Spencer again because they’re allowing any man who says they identify as a woman into the women’s changing rooms. Ironically, radical feminists aren’t even trans-exclusionary – they include trans men in their feminism, because they were born women

its an accurate description of your views JK. Trans exclusionary radical feminists view trans men as traitors to woman kind, even worse, TERF lesbians view trans men as people who are causing them harm by reducing their dating pools. Show some evidence that this actually happened JK. This is attempting to use trans men as a shield against criticism and guess what JK if you are against trans women having the same rights as you NOBODY gives a flying **** if you support trans men you are STILL a TERF. This is precisely the sort of excuse the Bell Curve fanboys used "Im not racist I think Chinese people are smarter than white people, checkmate libs!". If you are fundamentally opposed to the inclusion of trans women in your feminism you are a TERF, the distinction ultimately does not matter and is only a selfish justification to obsfuscate the issue. (Psst only TERFs think TERF is a slur. SWERFs and TERFs exist... deal with it). You cant be bigoted towards TERFs anymore than you can be bigoted towards homophobes.

1. You cant escape homophobia by being trans, you will just get bullied even more in America and the UK.
2. We are only taking the word of the parent not the child in question so we dont have much context here.
3. From what I hear, the parent actually asked "Arent you just gay?" while that might not have been a malevolent question, it does exemplify what a lot of trans kids are asked by parents who are ignorant



But accusations of TERFery have been sufficient to intimidate many people, institutions and organisations I once admired, who’re cowering before the tactics of the playground. ‘They’ll call us transphobic!’ ‘They’ll say I hate trans people!’ What next, they’ll say you’ve got fleas? Speaking as a biological woman, a lot of people in positions of power really need to grow a pair (which is doubtless literally possible, according to the kind of people who argue that clownfish prove humans aren’t a dimorphic species).

That which is claimed without evidence JK can be dismissed as evidence. Only the most idiotic of your fanboys would buy this uncritically.

Simply put, as Critfacts noted, and I agree the framing of this implies that the purpose of feminism is to engage in the eternal struggle of biology that pits man against women and makes trans women out to be a horrible invader from the male class that is always the oppressor class into the oppressed class. Does anyone not notice this framing is exactly like the conservative strawman of marxism and social justice movements? The eternal struggle of the oppressor and the oppressed?
 
Yes, I'm aware of biological sex and that it's something that develops while the baby is in the womb. That is what I meant when I said "sex assigned at birth". Apologies for the confusion.
it's not that there was confusion there wasn't anyone the idea that sex is assigned at birth is a lie. You confessed to knowing it was a lie and you told it anyway.

We have to be careful with that because if you tell a lie enough times you'll start to believe it.

Texas not assigned at birth by a person that's utterly false that phraseology is false don't apologize to me you're the one with the speech patterns of someone in denial.
I'm still not completely sure what you mean by "underlying problem"? Are you referring to gender dysphoria or a person's gender identity not matching their biological sex? Because there's nothing wrong with a person's gender identity not matching their biological sex, it's only when they experience distress from this that it becomes an issue that often requires treatment (that's what gender dysphoria is). Trying to relieve them of or "fix" what's causing their distress is not at all sadistic.
you only fix when something's wrong you just said there's nothing wrong with them so what the hell are you fixing?

I'm the one saying there's nothing wrong with them so therefore they don't need treatment. Medical treatment is to alleviate symptoms of an illness or repair an injury.
If it's used to treat the person's gender dysphoria then it is in fact a treatment. And if it cures it what difference does it make if the treatment was cosmetic?
so there is something wrong with them and you recognize it you recognized it twice now they need to be fixed and they need to be treated.

I would argue that it doesn't cure them because sex is in your DNA and everybody knows that it's not something that's assigned at birth. No amount of drugs or surgery will ever change that
By insecurity do you mean gender dysphoria? And by support do you mean offer treatment? Why is it abusive to offer treatment to someone who is suffering? I would argue that it would be abusive not to.
if the treatment doesn't cheat anything and you say there's nothing wrong with them then it's abuse kind of like giving chemotherapy drugs to someone without cancer.

In order to justify your treatment you must recognize gender dysphoria as a mental illness. Treatment given when there is no necessity for it is by definition abuse. For instance doing heart surgery on someone who doesn't need heart surgery.
 
*sigh* This forum continues to reinforce my opinion that nobody is going to change their minds, no matter how much you try to clarify what actually happened.
JK likes to insist that she has always supported trans people but she has never actually proven it. Considering how much she enjoys defending people actively hostile to trans people and those who create hostile environments for trans people well that just comes across as you trying to use a shield #notyourshield

If you didn’t already know – and why should you? – ‘TERF’ is an acronym coined by trans activists, which stands for Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminist. In practice, a huge and diverse cross-section of women are currently being called TERFs and the vast majority have never been radical feminists. Examples of so-called TERFs range from the mother of a gay child who was afraid their child wanted to transition to escape homophobic bullying, to a hitherto totally unfeminist older lady who’s vowed never to visit Marks & Spencer again because they’re allowing any man who says they identify as a woman into the women’s changing rooms. Ironically, radical feminists aren’t even trans-exclusionary – they include trans men in their feminism, because they were born women

its an accurate description of your views JK. Trans exclusionary radical feminists view trans men as traitors to woman kind, even worse, TERF lesbians view trans men as people who are causing them harm by reducing their dating pools. Show some evidence that this actually happened JK. This is attempting to use trans men as a shield against criticism and guess what JK if you are against trans women having the same rights as you NOBODY gives a flying **** if you support trans men you are STILL a TERF. This is precisely the sort of excuse the Bell Curve fanboys used "Im not racist I think Chinese people are smarter than white people, checkmate libs!". If you are fundamentally opposed to the inclusion of trans women in your feminism you are a TERF, the distinction ultimately does not matter and is only a selfish justification to obsfuscate the issue. (Psst only TERFs think TERF is a slur. SWERFs and TERFs exist... deal with it). You cant be bigoted towards TERFs anymore than you can be bigoted towards homophobes.

1. You cant escape homophobia by being trans, you will just get bullied even more in America and the UK.
2. We are only taking the word of the parent not the child in question so we dont have much context here.
3. From what I hear, the parent actually asked "Arent you just gay?" while that might not have been a malevolent question, it does exemplify what a lot of trans kids are asked by parents who are ignorant



But accusations of TERFery have been sufficient to intimidate many people, institutions and organisations I once admired, who’re cowering before the tactics of the playground. ‘They’ll call us transphobic!’ ‘They’ll say I hate trans people!’ What next, they’ll say you’ve got fleas? Speaking as a biological woman, a lot of people in positions of power really need to grow a pair (which is doubtless literally possible, according to the kind of people who argue that clownfish prove humans aren’t a dimorphic species).

That which is claimed without evidence JK can be dismissed as evidence. Only the most idiotic of your fanboys would buy this uncritically.

Simply put, as Critfacts noted, and I agree the framing of this implies that the purpose of feminism is to engage in the eternal struggle of biology that pits man against women and makes trans women out to be a horrible invader from the male class that is always the oppressor class into the oppressed class. Does anyone not notice this framing is exactly like the conservative strawman of marxism and social justice movements? The eternal struggle of the oppressor and the oppressed?
Turf is actually a slur for a lesbian who doesn't want to bang a trans woman.

It's essentially homophobia.
 
it's not that there was confusion there wasn't anyone the idea that sex is assigned at birth is a lie. You confessed to knowing it was a lie and you told it anyway.

We have to be careful with that because if you tell a lie enough times you'll start to believe it.

Texas not assigned at birth by a person that's utterly false that phraseology is false don't apologize to me you're the one with the speech patterns of someone in denial.
you only fix when something's wrong you just said there's nothing wrong with them so what the hell are you fixing?

No one is lying to you. That is common terminology that's used by the LGBTQ community:

  1. Cisgender (adj.) – A person whose gender identity and assigned sex at birth correspond (i.e., a person who is not transgender).
  2. Transgender (adj.) – Describes a person whose gender identity and assigned sex at birth do not correspond. Also used as an umbrella term to include gender identities outside of male and female. Sometimes abbreviated as trans.


I'll try to say "biological sex" going forward since not everyone is familiar with the above, and I have absolutely no desire to argue semantics.

I'm the one saying there's nothing wrong with them so therefore they don't need treatment. Medical treatment is to alleviate symptoms of an illness or repair an injury.
so there is something wrong with them and you recognize it you recognized it twice now they need to be fixed and they need to be treated.

I would argue that it doesn't cure them because sex is in your DNA and everybody knows that it's not something that's assigned at birth. No amount of drugs or surgery will ever change that
if the treatment doesn't cheat anything and you say there's nothing wrong with them then it's abuse kind of like giving chemotherapy drugs to someone without cancer.

In order to justify your treatment you must recognize gender dysphoria as a mental illness. Treatment given when there is no necessity for it is by definition abuse. For instance doing heart surgery on someone who doesn't need heart surgery.
There's nothing wrong with being transgender. However there is something wrong if a person is suffering from gender dysphoria and they should be offered treatment to relieve their distress.
 
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