Finally my breakdown on JK Rowling's transphobic letter

[bomberfox]

Alright since ive said this many times that I would break down her letter and say what exactly is wrong with it because I am rather sick of her fanboys and girls lying using mote and bailey tactics and quite possibly only one person I have EVER seen since was honest enough to actually give a breakdown of what she actually said beyond "well all she said was sex is real" which is complete bullshit, NOBODY and I mean NOBODY writes an entire page just to say what everyone will tell you is a no ****ing brainer, even trans rights advocates. I read her letter a long time ago but have been working on many different things and never got around to it so here we go! The bolded will be what JK Rowling wrote

This isn’t an easy piece to write, for reasons that will shortly become clear, but I know it’s time to explain myself on an issue surrounded by toxicity. I write this without any desire to add to that toxicity. well here is the thing JK when you go into a rather contentious debate with really very very little knowledge of trans issues or what trans people go through it matters not what your intentions are, quite frankly I do not care about your intentions.

JK Rowling is pretty well known for using mote and bailey tactics to defend her arguments which is referenced in her first paragraph
For people who don’t know: last December I tweeted my support for Maya Forstater, a tax specialist who’d lost her job for what were deemed ‘transphobic’ tweets. She took her case to an employment tribunal, asking the judge to rule on whether a philosophical belief that sex is determined by biology is protected in law. Judge Tayler ruled that it wasn’t.

first of all, what JK and other gender criticals ((aptly named the feminism of fools) like to do is hide the rest of the story beyond simple catchphrases which is very effective messaging for her but it will not let this go unnoticed. What actually happened is this.
I share the concerns of @fairplaywomen that radically expanding the legal definition of 'women' so that it can include both males and females makes it a meaningless concept, and will undermine women’s rights & protections for vulnerable women & girls.
First of all, this is the first i've heard of inclusion violating the rights of others. Secondly Maya Forstater misunderstands what trans people go through and by constantly undermining their ability to socially transition much less physically transition makes trans people's experience that much worse, especially those with dysphoria. Trans women are women, its the whole damn point of transitioning and continuing to make it hard for people to leave the life they are trying to leave behind by silly biological essentialist arguments which completely misses the point is sure going to piss a lot of people off. Yes sex is real every ****ing person on this planet knows this and repeating this tired old strawman like gender criticals do all the time even to the point where GCs I argue with get absolutely flummoxed when I catch them off their script which is absolutely hilarious, in fact it is gender criticals that cannot separate sex from gender.

Some transgender people have cosmetic surgery. But most retain their birth genitals. Everyone's equality and safety should be protected, but women and girls lose out on privacy, safety and fairness if males are allowed into changing rooms, dormitories, prisons, sports teams. are you one to be looking at other people's genitals Maya? Since trans people are more likely to have crimes committed against them than they are to commit crimes, you have nothing to really be afraid of. Women are really violent towards other women as well, yeah new concept!

 

[bomberfox]

The bolded in this post will be from the NBC article

Lets go over what actually happened in Maya Forstater's case shall we? Because JK certainly doesnt want you to know about it, no she wants people to think Maya was just a martyr for freeze peach... or something.
A case in point is Maya Forstater, who on Wednesday lost her employment discrimination complaint before the Employment Tribunals in London. She claimed that her consulting contract with a nonprofit was not renewed and she was not considered for further employment with them because of complaints about her open transphobia, and that the company's failure to keep her around violated her human rights.
Specifically, she said in her complaint that "her gender critical views are a philosophical belief" — akin to a legally protected political or religious belief under U.K. law — and further asked the court to consider whether punishing her for being transphobic was a form of "indirect sex discrimination as such view are more likely to be held by women than men.” the last part is rather hysterical, indirect sex discrimination? Psst there are plenty of gender critical men on TERF island.
So this is another case of a woman in a privileged position believing she is entitled to have her contract renewed when the company DID NOT FIRE HER, no they simply didnt renew her contract. Yeah capitalism, get used to it.

Since the UK wanted to include trans people in U.K.'s Gender Recognition Act, that means creating a hostile work environment for trans people can be a grounds for NOT RENEWING YOUR CONTRACT. Later that month, in a long series of tweets, she repeatedly misgendered Credit Suisse senior director Pips Bunce, who identifies as gender fluid, referring to her as "a man who likes to express himself part of the week by wearing a dress,” "a part-time cross dresser" and "a white man who likes to dress in women’s clothes.” As part of that discussion, she also tweeted, "I think that male people are not women." (In her own words, Pips prefers to “default to ‘she’ as a pronoun.”)
After that series of Tweets, in a Slack conversation published by the court, Forstater reiterated that her stances — "'women are adult human females' or 'transwomen are male'" — are "basic biological truths," and "'transwoman are women'" is one of a number of "literal delusions."
Calling your co-workers delusional and constantly misgendering them for months on end can create a hostile working environment for fellow employees.

Forstater's contract expired in December and was not renewed; she sued in March and waited for a ruling — while continuing to make transphobic statements, including (but not limited to) a link to a piece comparing the use of proper pronouns to the date rape drug rohypnol and her commentary in defense of not using people's preferred pronouns, a defense of using transgender people's prior names in public settings, another series of statements misgendering another gender nonbinary person and another defense of her right to refuse to use the correct pronouns and to openly misgender people.

Comparing using trangender people's proper pronouns to the date rape drug? Are you absolutely insane you pompous dirtbag? Holy shit are you trying to give Graham Lineham a stiffy Maya? He hasnt been able to get one for quite a while because his obsession with destroying trans people and trans organizations has made his wife leave him.

Opinion | J.K. Rowling's #IStandWithMaya tweets support the creator of a hostile work environment

A judge found Forstater's transphobia created a "hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment" at her work. Why does Rowling think that's OK?

www.nbcnews.com

 

[bomberfox]

More to come likely either later tonight or tomorrow, but I want to hammer home the point that so far it might seem like JK Rowling haphazardly walked into a beehive and got stung but thats not really true, she said she was researching these issues so she cannot claim ignorance on this. What really drew ire is she knows who she is defending and she should very well know that "Believing sex is real!" is not at all what Maya Forstater got reprimanded for, that is a mote and bailey tactic. She is defending someone who would make Germaine Greer blush in admiration.

 

[bomberfox]

Since I am not a trans person, I am a cisgendered male, this personally doesnt affect me but before I continue, I think I should share a video from someone who is deeply affected by this issue.

 

[Schism]

We've all been waiting for your breakdown.

Thank you - a fan

 

[CLAX1911]

Alright since ive said this many times that I would break down her letter and say what exactly is wrong with it because I am rather sick of her fanboys and girls lying using mote and bailey tactics and quite possibly only one person I have EVER seen since was honest enough to actually give a breakdown of what she actually said beyond "well all she said was sex is real" which is complete bullshit, NOBODY and I mean NOBODY writes an entire page just to say what everyone will tell you is a no ****ing brainer, even trans rights advocates. I read her letter a long time ago but have been working on many different things and never got around to it so here we go! The bolded will be what JK Rowling wrote

This isn’t an easy piece to write, for reasons that will shortly become clear, but I know it’s time to explain myself on an issue surrounded by toxicity. I write this without any desire to add to that toxicity. well here is the thing JK when you go into a rather contentious debate with really very very little knowledge of trans issues or what trans people go through it matters not what your intentions are, quite frankly I do not care about your intentions.

JK Rowling is pretty well known for using mote and bailey tactics to defend her arguments which is referenced in her first paragraph
For people who don’t know: last December I tweeted my support for Maya Forstater, a tax specialist who’d lost her job for what were deemed ‘transphobic’ tweets. She took her case to an employment tribunal, asking the judge to rule on whether a philosophical belief that sex is determined by biology is protected in law. Judge Tayler ruled that it wasn’t.

first of all, what JK and other gender criticals ((aptly named the feminism of fools) like to do is hide the rest of the story beyond simple catchphrases which is very effective messaging for her but it will not let this go unnoticed. What actually happened is this.
I share the concerns of @fairplaywomen that radically expanding the legal definition of 'women' so that it can include both males and females makes it a meaningless concept, and will undermine women’s rights & protections for vulnerable women & girls.
First of all, this is the first i've heard of inclusion violating the rights of others. Secondly Maya Forstater misunderstands what trans people go through and by constantly undermining their ability to socially transition much less physically transition makes trans people's experience that much worse, especially those with dysphoria. Trans women are women, its the whole damn point of transitioning and continuing to make it hard for people to leave the life they are trying to leave behind by silly biological essentialist arguments which completely misses the point is sure going to piss a lot of people off. Yes sex is real every ****ing person on this planet knows this and repeating this tired old strawman like gender criticals do all the time even to the point where GCs I argue with get absolutely flummoxed when I catch them off their script which is absolutely hilarious, in fact it is gender criticals that cannot separate sex from gender.

Some transgender people have cosmetic surgery. But most retain their birth genitals. Everyone's equality and safety should be protected, but women and girls lose out on privacy, safety and fairness if males are allowed into changing rooms, dormitories, prisons, sports teams. are you one to be looking at other people's genitals Maya? Since trans people are more likely to have crimes committed against them than they are to commit crimes, you have nothing to really be afraid of. Women are really violent towards other women as well, yeah new concept!

It's not JK Rowling that's transphobic. It's reality. If accepting that it's women that menstruate is transphobic that's biological reality.

Cancelling people because they acknowledge truth is KGB gestapo crap.

 

[Mithrae]

It's not JK Rowling that's transphobic. It's reality. If accepting that it's women that menstruate is transphobic that's biological reality.

Cancelling people because they acknowledge truth is KGB gestapo crap.

Just like a few years ago it was 'biological reality' that men are suitable sexual partners for women only

 

[CLAX1911]

Just like a few years ago it was 'biological reality' that men are suitable sexual partners for women only

Gullets biological reality that a man and a woman are the only coupling that can procreate but as for what a suitable partner is that's never been biological reality that's always been on the basis of the person.

It is undeniable fact that people demonstrate are female and woman is a word we use for adult human female. That's why we refer to trans women as trans women and not just women.

All right take no issue with people being transgender. The issue that's taken is when you try to rewrite what I understand as sex in my mind with belligerence that's unacceptable.

I didn't accept it when the Bible thumpers tried to do it to me and I'm not going to accept it when the woke ss try.

 

[Mithrae]

Gullets biological reality that a man and a woman are the only coupling that can procreate but as for what a suitable partner is that's never been biological reality that's always been on the basis of the person.

It's never been a biological reality that all women menstruate either - or even all females at some stage in their life - but disguising ignorance or prejudice as 'simple facts' or 'obvious reality' has always been pretty standard fare.

 

[CLAX1911]

It's never been a biological reality that all women menstruate either - or even all females at some stage in their life - but disguising ignorance or prejudice as 'simple facts' or 'obvious reality' has always been pretty standard fare.

The only people that are capable of menstruating are female. Pointing out that some women don't doesn't have anything to do with that fact. A person administrates is a female.

Feel free to show me that they aren't and being trans doesn't make you not female anymore

 

[Phys251]

More to come likely either later tonight or tomorrow, but I want to hammer home the point that so far it might seem like JK Rowling haphazardly walked into a beehive and got stung but thats not really true, she said she was researching these issues so she cannot claim ignorance on this. What really drew ire is she knows who she is defending and she should very well know that "Believing sex is real!" is not at all what Maya Forstater got reprimanded for, that is a mote and bailey tactic. She is defending someone who would make Germaine Greer blush in admiration.

Rowling knows exactly what she is doing with her manipulative, victim-blaming tactics. And she has the nerve to play the victim.

Here's a piece of advice, Ms. Rowling: Don't attack people, and they won't have a need to fight back.

Since I am not a trans person, I am a cisgendered male, this personally doesnt affect me but before I continue, I think I should share a video from someone who is deeply affected by this issue.

Thanks, I'll add that to my playlist. Contrapoints made a (long) video about Rowling a few years ago:

 

[bomberfox]

Rowling knows exactly what she is doing with her manipulative, victim-blaming tactics. And she has the nerve to play the victim.

Here's a piece of advice, Ms. Rowling: Don't attack people, and they won't have a need to fight back.



Thanks, I'll add that to my playlist. Contrapoints made a (long) video about Rowling a few years ago:

Yeah i think Critfacts nails the damage that she has done to many of her fans even on an emotional level.

 

[CLAX1911]

Rowling knows exactly what she is doing with her manipulative, victim-blaming tactics. And she has the nerve to play the victim.

Here's a piece of advice, Ms. Rowling: Don't attack people, and they won't have a need to fight back.



Thanks, I'll add that to my playlist. Contrapoints made a (long) video about Rowling a few years ago:

All railing said was the truth that it's only women who menstruate.

You shouldn't use Contra points as a source that person is a psychopath.

 

[Fishking]

It's never been a biological reality that all women menstruate either - or even all females at some stage in their life - but disguising ignorance or prejudice as 'simple facts' or 'obvious reality' has always been pretty standard fare.

Not everyone is born with two legs but we still say humans are bipedal.

 

[CLAX1911]

Not everyone is born with two legs but we still say humans are bipedal.

Talk to me was a bit dishonest I never said all women menstrued I said all people that menstruate are female. And that's biological reality there's no arguing with that. You can find people with deficiencies and other problems or syndromes or defects it doesn't mean that that's the rule all people who demonstrate are female that will never change.

Even if we come up with a way to just zap somebody who's male into a female point the laser at them and change every cell in their body it will still be only females that menstruate.

 

[CLAX1911]

It's never been a biological reality that all women menstruate either - or even all females at some stage in their life - but disguising ignorance or prejudice as 'simple facts' or 'obvious reality' has always been pretty standard fare.

It will also only ever be males that produce sperm.

Calling someone a biological male is redundant because there's no other kind. There are no honorary males or honorary females it's just the way it is it's okay if you want to identify as the opposite sex I'm okay with that too I don't care.

It seems a lot of the trouble people have right now with trans folks is that they want to particularly MTF want to compete physically with females and you can't do that there's no competition that's why anytime you see a trans woman competing with women and she dominates them because she's not competing she's dominating.

This aspect of it I don't really care about if women don't care then I don't care it's got to be women that speak up about this.

The other aspect seems to be demanding people accept dating you as the sexual identify with. Just doesn't work Bible thunder crap I don't date women or females I'm not attracted to them I don't care if they identify as male I'll never be attracted to them because I'm attracted to males. I can't just switch and asking me to do that is what the Catholic Church does

 

[Mithrae]

woman is a word we use for adult human female.

Often, yes, but it's also a word which is and always has been used to denote gendered characteristics/stereotypes; "you throw like a woman," "they're an army of women" and so on. Conversely it's not a word which is used for female dogs or cats or horses etc. It is pretty unequivocally a social term, used only for humans and often with gendered rather than sexual meaning... not a biological term. Generalizations work well enough most of the time, but when we need to refer precisely to biological sex, the terms 'female' and 'male' are more appropriate; a trans woman is male (we can't change that yet), but still a woman.

All right take no issue with people being transgender.

Folk like Maya Forstater obviously do, and J. K. Rowling's public support for Forstater and her fascinating but dangerously un-nuanced essay repeatedly demonizing "trans activists" while apparently supporting harmful policies against trans women (under the guise of "single sex spaces," wanting to send trans women to the male bathrooms) suggests that on some level Rowling likewise may take issue with them.

The issue that's taken is when you try to rewrite what I understand as sex in my mind with belligerence that's unacceptable.

You posted an incorrect claim (that "If accepting that it's women that menstruate is transphobic that's biological reality") in defense of Rowling's views and hurled an accusation of "KGB gestapo crap" against anyone withdrawing support from her due to her attack on trans activists and trans rights. Seems like a bit of a pot and kettle situation, at best.

 

[thelastman]

I consider myself to be an advocate for the transgenders. Back in 2015 when all this transgender stuff was picking up steam I decided that it would be pretty funny to identify as a female and then join a gym and take showers with chicks and stuff. But the thing is - back then they wanted you to actually cut your penis off before they would recognize you as a true female. Here in Australia anyway. So I complained about it to the government. Here is the email I sent -

-----
Hello, I would like to complain that I am required by the NSW Government to cut my penis off before they will recognize me as a transgender individual. I feel as though the NSW government is making me feel guilty about having been born with a penis and wanting to keep it. Being made to feel guilty over having a penis is a serious issue for us in the transgender community and I am shocked and outraged that my government would require me to cut my penis off before they will legally accept my identity. An individual does not have to have their penis cut off to be accepted as a member of the transgender community so why is my government telling me that I cant be legally recognized as a transgender if I keep my penis? Why on earth would the NSW government require me to have my penis cut off before they will change my birth certificate?

I feel that I am being discriminated against. This is causing me serious psychological trauma. What can be done?

An individual does not need to cut their penis off to be a transgender person. I am a female. I want my birth certificate to state that I am a female. I want to be legally recognized as a female. I am not having my penis cut off and I will not be made to feel guilty about that by the NSW government.

I am very upset by this and I would like an explanation and to know my legal rights. Please get back to me as soon as possible.
Yours,

[SNIP] / Female.
-----------------------------------------

HA! They replied to me by mail and while they addressed it to 'Miss' they held their ground on the cutting my penis off stuff.

edit - I identify as a female lesbian that kept the penis. I dont even need to dress like a chick because chicks can dress like dudes if they want. I dont need to change a thing. Unless I want my birth certificate changed. But what does it really matter as long as I can use the female showers at the gym?

 

[CLAX1911]

Often, yes, but it's also a word which is and always has been used to denote gendered characteristics/stereotypes; "you throw like a woman," "they're an army of women" and so on. Conversely it's not a word which is used for female dogs or cats or horses etc. It is pretty unequivocally a social term, used only for humans and often with gendered rather than sexual meaning... not a biological term. Generalizations work well enough most of the time, but when we need to refer precisely to biological sex, the terms 'female' and 'male' are more appropriate; a trans woman is male (we can't change that yet), but still a woman.

I'm not saying the meanings of words can't change it's just what changes them and it's common usage.

Until people stop referring to trans women with the word trans it's an adjective that is altering the meaning of the word. They're talking about a biological male that identifies as a woman I don't see anything wrong with that.

So common usage still says adult human female.

But I do agree with you woman and man just like boy and girl are not biological terms they are colloquial terms. Male and female however are biological terms. That's why from now on I'm going to try to only refer to males and females.

Folk like Maya Forstater obviously do, and J. K. Rowling's public support for Forstater and her fascinating but dangerously un-nuanced essay repeatedly demonizing "trans activists" while apparently supporting harmful policies against trans women (under the guise of "single sex spaces," wanting to send trans women to the male bathrooms) suggests that on some level Rowling likewise may take issue with them.

Not too incredibly familiar with what JK Rowling is doing as far as activism but have read what she said and that it's only females menstruate and that's correct that's not transphobic that's reality.

I don't know who my Forester is and I don't know if I should be bothered to find out.

I take no issue with single sex spaces.

You posted an incorrect claim (that "If accepting that it's women that menstruate is transphobic that's biological reality") in defense of Rowling's views and hurled an accusation of "KGB gestapo crap" against anyone withdrawing support from her due to her attack on trans activists and trans rights. Seems like a bit of a pot and kettle situation, at best.

I Will apologize for the accusation and correct it. Only females menstruate that's what I read about JK Rowling and she is correct in that. Anybody who tries to undermine that truth or suggest that it's not true is doing what the KGB and the Gestapo did.

 

[Mithrae]

Talk to me was a bit dishonest I never said all women menstrued I said all people that menstruate are female.

No, you initially said "it's women that menstruate" (ie, if you menstruate you're a woman, contra some trans men) and then, in an edit after I'd posted a reply to your first paragraph, that "It is undeniable fact that people demonstrate are female..." Allowing for the presumably voice-to-text typo there, even the second comment and your reiteration of it above isn't accurate, since intersex people often experience menstruation.

It will also only ever be males that produce sperm.

Again, many intersex people produce sperm. You seem to be habitually denying the very existence or legitimacy of 1-2% of the human population based on imprecise generalizations framed as 'simple facts' or 'obvious reality': Which, as I originally noted, is exactly how homosexuals and many other minority groups have always been sidelined, dismissed, marginalized and oppressed.

 

[CLAX1911]

No, you initially said "it's women that menstruate"

and fairness I did the state my terms as woman means adult human female

To think that I ever meant males in that term is picking at ambiguity.

So I will correct it only females menstruate.

(ie, if you menstruate you're a woman, contra trans men) and then, in an edit after I'd posted a reply to your first paragraph, that "It is undeniable fact that people demonstrate are female..." Allowing for the presumably voice-to-text typo there, even the second comment and your reiteration of it above isn't accurate, since intersex people often experience menstruation.

as again I made my turns clear woman means adult human female that would include trans men since they are female.

That's why I won't use those colloquial terms anymore.

If intersex people experience menstruation they are female.

Again, many intersex people produce sperm. You seem to be habitually denying the very existence or legitimacy of 1-2% of the human population based on imprecise generalizations framed as 'simple facts' or 'obvious reality': Which, as I originally noted, is exactly how homosexuals and many other minority groups have always been sidelined, dismissed, marginalized and oppressed.

if they are intersexed in a pretty sperm they are male as intersexed male and female are not mutually exclusive.

Further insects to people do not make up one to 2% of the population it's more like 0.018% of the population. Further being intersexed does not mean that you're not male or female.

I'm not marginalizing or dismissing anybody or anything so the comparison to the way you gave people were treated is rather out of place. I don't think these realities such as male and female people that can also be intersexed or male people who are transgender or female people who are transgender is any reason to treat them poorly. But also it's no reason to treat them as special.

 

[bomberfox]

I consider myself to be an advocate for the transgenders. Back in 2015 when all this transgender stuff was picking up steam I decided that it would be pretty funny to identify as a female and then join a gym and take showers with chicks and stuff. But the thing is - back then they wanted you to actually cut your penis off before they would recognize you as a true female. Here in Australia anyway. So I complained about it to the government. Here is the email I sent -

-----
Hello, I would like to complain that I am required by the NSW Government to cut my penis off before they will recognize me as a transgender individual. I feel as though the NSW government is making me feel guilty about having been born with a penis and wanting to keep it. Being made to feel guilty over having a penis is a serious issue for us in the transgender community and I am shocked and outraged that my government would require me to cut my penis off before they will legally accept my identity. An individual does not have to have their penis cut off to be accepted as a member of the transgender community so why is my government telling me that I cant be legally recognized as a transgender if I keep my penis? Why on earth would the NSW government require me to have my penis cut off before they will change my birth certificate?

I feel that I am being discriminated against. This is causing me serious psychological trauma. What can be done?

An individual does not need to cut their penis off to be a transgender person. I am a female. I want my birth certificate to state that I am a female. I want to be legally recognized as a female. I am not having my penis cut off and I will not be made to feel guilty about that by the NSW government.

I am very upset by this and I would like an explanation and to know my legal rights. Please get back to me as soon as possible.
Yours,

[SNIP] / Female.
-----------------------------------------

HA! They replied to me by mail and while they addressed it to 'Miss' they held their ground on the cutting my penis off stuff.

edit - I identify as a female lesbian that kept the penis. I dont even need to dress like a chick because chicks can dress like dudes if they want. I dont need to change a thing. Unless I want my birth certificate changed. But what does it really matter as long as I can use the female showers at the gym?

This never happened…

 

[Nomad4Ever]

Thanks, I'll add that to my playlist. Contrapoints made a (long) video about Rowling a few years ago:

I love contrapoints.

 

[Nomad4Ever]

I consider myself to be an advocate for the transgenders.

 

[Nomad4Ever]

You shouldn't use Contra points as a source that person is a psychopath.

How so?