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Final solution to middle east crisis

khaled

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Hi there
I live in Egypt (which is a country in the middle east)
& I think most of you heard about the “Arabian spring” .

The Arabian spring was just a single episode of a long bloody history of Arabian region.
The peoples of the Middle East have suffered during the past decades, and Anyone who looks at the history of that region can only find poverty, ignorance, wars and bloodshed.
====================
I was thinking to find a solution to this lasting tragedy,
And then I came with an idea :
Why are not European countries -(especially UK Which has a long history of colonization
)- Takes over managing and Governance the Middle East?
======================
I know the idea seems crazy, but Iam not talking about bloody Occupation ,
I am talking about (Governance ), where Europe can owe the Middle East and benefit from its resources, while at the same time , giving people the opportunity to live a decent life in the light of respect for human rights and multiculturalism.
========================
For example:
Suppose that : the Egyptian people & government are agreed to (Egypt's integration into the United Kingdom), where UK will owe the Egyptian lands, resources & Sovereignty.
And the UK will be committed To (Repayment of debts of Egypt/ providing :job opportunities , freedom of expression & decent life requirements to the Egyptian people)
========================
my question is :
Will UK find a good chance in this project?
Or UK will refuse to sink itself into the mud of middle east (where poverty ,Intolerance, Overpopulation) will make things getting worse , and finally :UK Will find itself fighting in a losing battle.
=====================
sorry for my silly talking , but iam eager to hear your opinion
 

Kobie

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I always am somewhat taken aback when someone refers to anything as a "final solution"
 

khaled

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I always am somewhat taken aback when someone refers to anything as a "final solution"

do you have an alternative solution to the middle east ?
this region has become a (sustainable troubles-producing area)
and the peoples here are very tired & frustrated
some of them decide to leave the country , Even if the fate is to reach Italy as a floating figure on the sea.
italy-migrants-refugees-asylum-seekers-1.jpg
 

Checkerboard Strangler

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do you have an alternative solution to the middle east ?
this region has become a (sustainable troubles-producing area)
and the peoples here are very tired & frustrated
some of them decide to leave the country , Even if the fate is to reach Italy as a floating figure on the sea.
View attachment 67246946

He was making a reference to the historical use of the term "final solution".
The German Third Reich (Adolf Hitler) proposed something he called "The Final Solution", which was to murder as many Jews as possible.
The name of the program was literally "The Final Solution" (die Endlösung der Judenfrage) so for English speaking people in the West, when they hear those words, many get a little shudder and get a little bit "creeped out".

Does that make sense?
 

Checkerboard Strangler

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Hi there
I live in Egypt (which is a country in the middle east)
& I think most of you heard about the “Arabian spring” .

The Arabian spring was just a single episode of a long bloody history of Arabian region.
The peoples of the Middle East have suffered during the past decades, and Anyone who looks at the history of that region can only find poverty, ignorance, wars and bloodshed.
====================
I was thinking to find a solution to this lasting tragedy,
And then I came with an idea :
Why are not European countries -(especially UK Which has a long history of colonization
)- Takes over managing and Governance the Middle East?
======================
I know the idea seems crazy, but Iam not talking about bloody Occupation ,
I am talking about (Governance ), where Europe can owe the Middle East and benefit from its resources, while at the same time , giving people the opportunity to live a decent life in the light of respect for human rights and multiculturalism.
========================
For example:
Suppose that : the Egyptian people & government are agreed to (Egypt's integration into the United Kingdom), where UK will owe the Egyptian lands, resources & Sovereignty.
And the UK will be committed To (Repayment of debts of Egypt/ providing :job opportunities , freedom of expression & decent life requirements to the Egyptian people)
========================
my question is :
Will UK find a good chance in this project?
Or UK will refuse to sink itself into the mud of middle east (where poverty ,Intolerance, Overpopulation) will make things getting worse , and finally :UK Will find itself fighting in a losing battle.
=====================
sorry for my silly talking , but iam eager to hear your opinion

I cannot imagine that the British history in the Middle East lends itself to a favorable view for any Arab peoples in the region.
It was the UK Balfour Declaration that set the wheels in motion to declare Palestine the new homeland for the Jewish people, but for some reason no one asked the Palestinians in the area what their opinion was.
Similarly, the Brits drew numerous other national boundaries where none had existed, creating entire countries made up of disparate and often warring groups. Didn't matter to the Brits, they just wanted to carve the area up and declare victory. No attention was paid to cultural and tribal issues, they just seemingly carved it all up at random.

Personally, Egypt's leadership needs to just step up and explore rational approaches to at least some kind of quasi-democratic system and they need to make it a secular one. It is religion which, in my humble opinion, is mucking up the works.

Secular doesn't mean "non-religious', as the cultural path of the Egyptian people will remain somewhat religious, it just means that the state needs to stop playing a governing role in religious affairs. Political leadership apparatus needs to leave religion to the religious, and that's that.
 

marke

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Hi there
I live in Egypt (which is a country in the middle east)
& I think most of you heard about the “Arabian spring” .

The Arabian spring was just a single episode of a long bloody history of Arabian region.
The peoples of the Middle East have suffered during the past decades, and Anyone who looks at the history of that region can only find poverty, ignorance, wars and bloodshed.
====================
I was thinking to find a solution to this lasting tragedy,
And then I came with an idea :
Why are not European countries -(especially UK Which has a long history of colonization
)- Takes over managing and Governance the Middle East?
======================
I know the idea seems crazy, but Iam not talking about bloody Occupation ,
I am talking about (Governance ), where Europe can owe the Middle East and benefit from its resources, while at the same time , giving people the opportunity to live a decent life in the light of respect for human rights and multiculturalism.
========================
For example:
Suppose that : the Egyptian people & government are agreed to (Egypt's integration into the United Kingdom), where UK will owe the Egyptian lands, resources & Sovereignty.
And the UK will be committed To (Repayment of debts of Egypt/ providing :job opportunities , freedom of expression & decent life requirements to the Egyptian people)
========================
my question is :
Will UK find a good chance in this project?
Or UK will refuse to sink itself into the mud of middle east (where poverty ,Intolerance, Overpopulation) will make things getting worse , and finally :UK Will find itself fighting in a losing battle.
=====================
sorry for my silly talking , but iam eager to hear your opinion

I think Americans are beginning to realize that nations populated by barbarous peoples can rarely be brought under successful civilized rule.
 

ecofarm

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I think Americans are beginning to realize that nations populated by barbarous peoples can rarely be brought under successful civilized rule.

That's what I keep saying about North Carolina.
 

khaled

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I think Americans are beginning to realize that nations populated by barbarous peoples can rarely be brought under successful civilized rule.

yes , i agree with that
Especially in the American try in Iraq & Afghanistan.
 

Checkerboard Strangler

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I think Americans are beginning to realize that nations populated by barbarous peoples can rarely be brought under successful civilized rule.

He was asking about the UK.
 

khaled

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Personally, Egypt's leadership needs to just step up and explore rational approaches to at least some kind of quasi-democratic system and they need to make it a secular one. It is religion which, in my humble opinion, is mucking up the works.

Secular doesn't mean "non-religious', as the cultural path of the Egyptian people will remain somewhat religious, it just means that the state needs to stop playing a governing role in religious affairs. Political leadership apparatus needs to leave religion to the religious, and that's that.



thanks for your clarification about : the final solution
& you mentioned a good point (about what happen in palastine)

but i think time has changed , the European union can find a Consensual formula that provide the Arab nations with average life requirements , and this formula will respect Transparency and human rights.

Europe will get benefit to Solve the growing refugee problems.
Europe also will have an access to natural resources ,and use it in Industrial purposes To compete China
===========

i think its not about secular or religious .
the problem is more deeper than that
the problem relays in the Arabian government which lacks :honesty & discipline
and it doesnt matter wether you replace the current gov. with a new gov. , as the new gov. will be the same corrupt messy.

i think the problem is in Arab GENES
 

truthatallcost

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Hi there
I live in Egypt (which is a country in the middle east)
& I think most of you heard about the “Arabian spring” .

The Arabian spring was just a single episode of a long bloody history of Arabian region.
The peoples of the Middle East have suffered during the past decades, and Anyone who looks at the history of that region can only find poverty, ignorance, wars and bloodshed.
====================
I was thinking to find a solution to this lasting tragedy,
And then I came with an idea :
Why are not European countries -(especially UK Which has a long history of colonization
)- Takes over managing and Governance the Middle East?
======================
I know the idea seems crazy, but Iam not talking about bloody Occupation ,
I am talking about (Governance ), where Europe can owe the Middle East and benefit from its resources, while at the same time , giving people the opportunity to live a decent life in the light of respect for human rights and multiculturalism.
========================
For example:
Suppose that : the Egyptian people & government are agreed to (Egypt's integration into the United Kingdom), where UK will owe the Egyptian lands, resources & Sovereignty.
And the UK will be committed To (Repayment of debts of Egypt/ providing :job opportunities , freedom of expression & decent life requirements to the Egyptian people)
========================
my question is :
Will UK find a good chance in this project?
Or UK will refuse to sink itself into the mud of middle east (where poverty ,Intolerance, Overpopulation) will make things getting worse , and finally :UK Will find itself fighting in a losing battle.
=====================
sorry for my silly talking , but iam eager to hear your opinion

I've heard Indian people express a desire for reestablishing British organization of India as well. Those ships have long sailed, I would imagine. Islamic terror attacks against Europeans have occurred in Egypt since the Arab Spring, and sending representatives of Britain to 'organize' Egypt would be a logistical nightmare. Their safety would likely be in jeopardy.
 

OrphanSlug

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History has demonstrated conclusively what happens when various nations outside of the greater Middle East region try to influence what is happening in these nations, making it easy to illustrate why that thinking has resulted in such instability across the region from Libya to Egypt, to Syria, to Iraq, to Afghanistan, the list goes on.

On top of that we also see time and time again what happens within the greater Middle East when dealing with competing ideologies of basically the same faith but with enough variation that eventually there is still division and ultimately loss of life.

These realizations from not just history but also current events tell us why “Why are not European countries -(especially UK Which has a long history of colonization)- Takes over managing and Governance the Middle East” is an unrealistic idea.

The ultimate issue we face is the collision of western ideologies coming with that governance of people that are not all that interested in those influences changing their own ideologies. This is backed up by the complications we already see with those from the greater Middle East adopting at least some of the ideologies of the west when immigrating to various nations in Europe for whatever reason.

We have every indication that trying... again... to have the greater Middle East influenced by the west will result in a bigger mess. I would argue the overwhelming majority of the population in these nations would look at the idea as being conquered and perhaps consider it just another evolution of the Crusades (that should have been evidence enough of how disasterous the idea is.)
 

EMNofSeattle

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I cannot imagine that the British history in the Middle East lends itself to a favorable view for any Arab peoples in the region.
It was the UK Balfour Declaration that set the wheels in motion to declare Palestine the new homeland for the Jewish people, but for some reason no one asked the Palestinians in the area what their opinion was.
Similarly, the Brits drew numerous other national boundaries where none had existed, creating entire countries made up of disparate and often warring groups. Didn't matter to the Brits, they just wanted to carve the area up and declare victory. No attention was paid to cultural and tribal issues, they just seemingly carved it all up at random.

Personally, Egypt's leadership needs to just step up and explore rational approaches to at least some kind of quasi-democratic system and they need to make it a secular one. It is religion which, in my humble opinion, is mucking up the works.

Secular doesn't mean "non-religious', as the cultural path of the Egyptian people will remain somewhat religious, it just means that the state needs to stop playing a governing role in religious affairs. Political leadership apparatus needs to leave religion to the religious, and that's that.

That’s fine in theory, but muslims near universally reject the idea of a secular state.

And while the Arabs may be upset over Israel, it was a land they previously conquered, and so they have zero moral right to complain it was conquered back by the original owners
 

DaveFagan

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Hi there
I live in Egypt (which is a country in the middle east)
& I think most of you heard about the “Arabian spring” .

The Arabian spring was just a single episode of a long bloody history of Arabian region.
The peoples of the Middle East have suffered during the past decades, and Anyone who looks at the history of that region can only find poverty, ignorance, wars and bloodshed.
====================
I was thinking to find a solution to this lasting tragedy,
And then I came with an idea :
Why are not European countries -(especially UK Which has a long history of colonization
)- Takes over managing and Governance the Middle East?
======================
I know the idea seems crazy, but Iam not talking about bloody Occupation ,
I am talking about (Governance ), where Europe can owe the Middle East and benefit from its resources, while at the same time , giving people the opportunity to live a decent life in the light of respect for human rights and multiculturalism.
========================
For example:
Suppose that : the Egyptian people & government are agreed to (Egypt's integration into the United Kingdom), where UK will owe the Egyptian lands, resources & Sovereignty.
And the UK will be committed To (Repayment of debts of Egypt/ providing :job opportunities , freedom of expression & decent life requirements to the Egyptian people)
========================
my question is :
Will UK find a good chance in this project?
Or UK will refuse to sink itself into the mud of middle east (where poverty ,Intolerance, Overpopulation) will make things getting worse , and finally :UK Will find itself fighting in a losing battle.
=====================
sorry for my silly talking , but iam eager to hear your opinion

There's fly in hte ointment. You start with the thought that these larage Capitalist/Corporatist Nations have a paternal benevolent attitude towards third World Nations and problems. Wrong, big time! They will support any type of dictator to have access to profitable natural resources or strategic geographical locations. Don't get that mixed up with "good intentions."
/
 

ataraxia

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I think Americans are beginning to realize that nations populated by barbarous peoples can rarely be brought under successful civilized rule.

This sounds a little like what the Romans said about the rest of Europe.
 

Mycroft

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Hi there
I live in Egypt (which is a country in the middle east)
& I think most of you heard about the “Arabian spring” .

The Arabian spring was just a single episode of a long bloody history of Arabian region.
The peoples of the Middle East have suffered during the past decades, and Anyone who looks at the history of that region can only find poverty, ignorance, wars and bloodshed.
====================
I was thinking to find a solution to this lasting tragedy,
And then I came with an idea :
Why are not European countries -(especially UK Which has a long history of colonization
)- Takes over managing and Governance the Middle East?
======================
I know the idea seems crazy, but Iam not talking about bloody Occupation ,
I am talking about (Governance ), where Europe can owe the Middle East and benefit from its resources, while at the same time , giving people the opportunity to live a decent life in the light of respect for human rights and multiculturalism.
========================
For example:
Suppose that : the Egyptian people & government are agreed to (Egypt's integration into the United Kingdom), where UK will owe the Egyptian lands, resources & Sovereignty.
And the UK will be committed To (Repayment of debts of Egypt/ providing :job opportunities , freedom of expression & decent life requirements to the Egyptian people)
========================
my question is :
Will UK find a good chance in this project?
Or UK will refuse to sink itself into the mud of middle east (where poverty ,Intolerance, Overpopulation) will make things getting worse , and finally :UK Will find itself fighting in a losing battle.
=====================
sorry for my silly talking , but iam eager to hear your opinion

I don't see the upside for any European country, while the downside is enormous. (see the highlighted above)

The UK...heck, all of the EU...has a lot of problems on their plate already. The UK's biggest problem right now, and likely for some years to come, is BREXIT. The rest of the EU is just as bad off...especially socially.

Probably the biggest reason not to implement your solution is the answer to this question: Is there ANYONE in the Middle East who would willingly place themselves under the rule of a European country?

I'm afraid the "bloody Occupation" that you are not talking about will be the inevitable result.
 

khaled

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There's fly in hte ointment. You start with the thought that these larage Capitalist/Corporatist Nations have a paternal benevolent attitude towards third World Nations and problems. Wrong, big time! They will support any type of dictator to have access to profitable natural resources or strategic geographical locations. Don't get that mixed up with "good intentions."
/

thanks , that was a shocking truth to me
 

khaled

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History has demonstrated conclusively what happens when various nations outside of the greater Middle East region try to influence what is happening in these nations, making it easy to illustrate why that thinking has resulted in such instability across the region from Libya to Egypt, to Syria, to Iraq, to Afghanistan, the list goes on.

On top of that we also see time and time again what happens within the greater Middle East when dealing with competing ideologies of basically the same faith but with enough variation that eventually there is still division and ultimately loss of life.

These realizations from not just history but also current events tell us why “Why are not European countries -(especially UK Which has a long history of colonization)- Takes over managing and Governance the Middle East” is an unrealistic idea.

The ultimate issue we face is the collision of western ideologies coming with that governance of people that are not all that interested in those influences changing their own ideologies. This is backed up by the complications we already see with those from the greater Middle East adopting at least some of the ideologies of the west when immigrating to various nations in Europe for whatever reason.

We have every indication that trying... again... to have the greater Middle East influenced by the west will result in a bigger mess. I would argue the overwhelming majority of the population in these nations would look at the idea as being conquered and perhaps consider it just another evolution of the Crusades (that should have been evidence enough of how disasterous the idea is.)

I don't see the upside for any European country, while the downside is enormous. (see the highlighted above)

The UK...heck, all of the EU...has a lot of problems on their plate already. The UK's biggest problem right now, and likely for some years to come, is BREXIT. The rest of the EU is just as bad off...especially socially.

Probably the biggest reason not to implement your solution is the answer to this question: Is there ANYONE in the Middle East who would willingly place themselves under the rule of a European country?

I'm afraid the "bloody Occupation" that you are not talking about will be the inevitable result.

your replays were very useful to me
now i realize that my idea was Not practical & seemingly impossible .

But I began to notice another danger, which is "the west may support any type of dictator to have access to profitable natural resources or strategic geographical locations of middle east."

and this scenario is more logical & In line with the principle of (risk-reward ratio)
 

Mycroft

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your replays were very useful to me
now i realize that my idea was Not practical & seemingly impossible .

But I began to notice another danger, which is "the west may support any type of dictator to have access to profitable natural resources or strategic geographical locations of middle east."

and this scenario is more logical & In line with the principle of (risk-reward ratio)

This danger is already a reality. Look at the relationship between various countries in Europe and Iran (economic). Look at the relationship between Russia and Syria (strategic geographical location).
 

Tom Horn

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Hi there
I live in Egypt (which is a country in the middle east)
& I think most of you heard about the “Arabian spring” .

The Arabian spring was just a single episode of a long bloody history of Arabian region.
The peoples of the Middle East have suffered during the past decades, and Anyone who looks at the history of that region can only find poverty, ignorance, wars and bloodshed.
====================
I was thinking to find a solution to this lasting tragedy,
And then I came with an idea :
Why are not European countries -(especially UK Which has a long history of colonization
)- Takes over managing and Governance the Middle East?
======================
I know the idea seems crazy, but Iam not talking about bloody Occupation ,
I am talking about (Governance ), where Europe can owe the Middle East and benefit from its resources, while at the same time , giving people the opportunity to live a decent life in the light of respect for human rights and multiculturalism.
========================
For example:
Suppose that : the Egyptian people & government are agreed to (Egypt's integration into the United Kingdom), where UK will owe the Egyptian lands, resources & Sovereignty.
And the UK will be committed To (Repayment of debts of Egypt/ providing :job opportunities , freedom of expression & decent life requirements to the Egyptian people)
========================
my question is :
Will UK find a good chance in this project?
Or UK will refuse to sink itself into the mud of middle east (where poverty ,Intolerance, Overpopulation) will make things getting worse , and finally :UK Will find itself fighting in a losing battle.
=====================
sorry for my silly talking , but iam eager to hear your opinion
Sisi is doing a great job walking the high wire. His delima is how to keep the lid on the pot while ladling out the soup and introducing the main course. His fortitude at staying sane is very commendable.
 

khaled

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Sisi is doing a great job walking the high wire. His delima is how to keep the lid on the pot while ladling out the soup and introducing the main course. His fortitude at staying sane is very commendable.

your replay (specifically) Has aroused my curiosity.
i will be very grateful if you give me more explanation about your point of view
 

PoS

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History has demonstrated conclusively what happens when various nations outside of the greater Middle East region try to influence what is happening in these nations, making it easy to illustrate why that thinking has resulted in such instability across the region from Libya to Egypt, to Syria, to Iraq, to Afghanistan, the list goes on.

On top of that we also see time and time again what happens within the greater Middle East when dealing with competing ideologies of basically the same faith but with enough variation that eventually there is still division and ultimately loss of life.

These realizations from not just history but also current events tell us why “Why are not European countries -(especially UK Which has a long history of colonization)- Takes over managing and Governance the Middle East” is an unrealistic idea.

The ultimate issue we face is the collision of western ideologies coming with that governance of people that are not all that interested in those influences changing their own ideologies. This is backed up by the complications we already see with those from the greater Middle East adopting at least some of the ideologies of the west when immigrating to various nations in Europe for whatever reason.

We have every indication that trying... again... to have the greater Middle East influenced by the west will result in a bigger mess. I would argue the overwhelming majority of the population in these nations would look at the idea as being conquered and perhaps consider it just another evolution of the Crusades (that should have been evidence enough of how disasterous the idea is.)

My thoughts exactly. The problems of the ME can only be solved by the people who live there. All forms of outside interference (military aid and interventions) should be done away with.
 
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