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Final 'climategate' report released

iangb

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BBC News - CRU climate scientists 'did not withold data'

The last of the three independent inquiries into the 'climategate' email frenzy has been released. Unsurprisingly, it echoes the previous two, clearing those involved of any attempt to mislead or hid data. It does criticise the 'lack of openness' of the research team - an criticism I agree with - but otherwise finds no evidence of wrongdoing, misdeeds or otherwise.
 

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I never believed there was some kind of "cover-up" going on. I read some of these Emails the media focused on and they proved nothing. IMO they were either taken out of context or were mis-read to satisfy those who are against the idea of global warming. I still haven't been convinced either way that global warming is real or not, but these Emails proved nothing for me.
 

Deuce

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I never believed there was some kind of "cover-up" going on. I read some of these Emails the media focused on and they proved nothing. IMO they were either taken out of context or were mis-read to satisfy those who are against the idea of global warming. I still haven't been convinced either way that global warming is real or not, but these Emails proved nothing for me.
Not to mention that this entire "controversy" revolved solely around a single tree ring temperature reconstruction. Even if you deleted the CRU from history via a time machine you'd still have a mountain of evidence pointing towards global warming caused by human activity.
 

theangryamerican

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Someone is paying a little too much attention to Al Gore...

Not to mention that this entire "controversy" revolved solely around a single tree ring temperature reconstruction. Even if you deleted the CRU from history via a time machine you'd still have a mountain of evidence pointing towards global warming caused by human activity.
 

Aunt Spiker

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Not to mention that this entire "controversy" revolved solely around a single tree ring temperature reconstruction. Even if you deleted the CRU from history via a time machine you'd still have a mountain of evidence pointing towards global warming caused by human activity.
Hmm?
I've read conflicting reports - one which points to an increase in growth of trees and the like due to higher CO2 levels.

When all reports conflict and contradict I err on teh side of believing nothing.
 

Deuce

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Someone is paying a little too much attention to Al Gore...
Al Gore is not a scientists and he doesn't do scientific research. The CRU project that is the subject of this "controversy" is a historical temperature reconstruction based on tree-ring data. Gore has nothing to do with this.

Hmm?
I've read conflicting reports - one which points to an increase in growth of trees and the like due to higher CO2 levels.

When all reports conflict and contradict I err on teh side of believing nothing.
There's more to climate research than temperature reconstructions from tree rings. You can dump the whole tree ring idea if you like, there's still tons of evidence pointing towards man-made increase in global temperatures.
 

digsbe

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Until they allow climate skeptics to preform an independent search into all the info then I will never believe that these liars are vindicated. Anyone can "vindicate" themselves with "independent" reports into the issue when those looking into it are biased themselves and desperately want these guys to not come off as liars.
 

iangb

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Until they allow climate skeptics to preform an independent search into all the info then I will never believe that these liars are vindicated. Anyone can "vindicate" themselves with "independent" reports into the issue when those looking into it are biased themselves and desperately want these guys to not come off as liars.
I believe that just such an inquiry has already been launched - though I don't know when it's results would be published.

If you feel that people on the panel were biased beforehand - when the report itself goes to great lengths to explain why this is not the case - it's up to you to prove why this is the case. That you (clearly) disagree with their findings is not proof enough.
 

theangryamerican

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Al Gore is not a scientists and he doesn't do scientific research. The CRU project that is the subject of this "controversy" is a historical temperature reconstruction based on tree-ring data. Gore has nothing to do with this.



There's more to climate research than temperature reconstructions from tree rings. You can dump the whole tree ring idea if you like, there's still tons of evidence pointing towards man-made increase in global temperatures.
I'm well aware that Al Gore was not specifically involved, it was just a general stab at you for espousing the view that I bolded above.
 

digsbe

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I believe that just such an inquiry has already been launched - though I don't know when it's results would be published.

If you feel that people on the panel were biased beforehand - when the report itself goes to great lengths to explain why this is not the case - it's up to you to prove why this is the case. That you (clearly) disagree with their findings is not proof enough.
The investigation was set up by the University of East Anglia. I highly doubt they would be unbiased towards their scientists. Plus, I'm sure if these things turn out not favorable the school would lose credibility and money. They would be shooting themselves in order to bring about justice. This would be comparable to Bush looking into 9/11 and selecting members to do an "independent" investigation of 9/11. Say they proved without a doubt that terrorists were the cause and not the Bush administration, do you think this would satisfy 9/11 skeptics?

I do feel people on the panel were biased, as the panel was set up by EAU in order to vindicate major and extremely famous scientists from EAU that push for anthropogenic global warming. Their work is some of what the IPCC draws upon. Do you really think they would be fair and unbiased, and even be willing to admit their dishonesty if proven? I will look more into this, but why should I trust a vindicating report that was set up by the university itself?

I challenge you to find 1 organization that did the "independent" reports into the scandal that wouldn't benefit from CRU being vindicated or was a climate skeptic themselves.
 
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Deuce

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Until they allow climate skeptics to preform an independent search into all the info then I will never believe that these liars are vindicated. Anyone can "vindicate" themselves with "independent" reports into the issue when those looking into it are biased themselves and desperately want these guys to not come off as liars.
Data available from CRU

Have at it.

If the skeptics want more than that, they'll have to go cut up some trees themselves.
 
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Aunt Spiker

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Al Gore is not a scientists and he doesn't do scientific research. The CRU project that is the subject of this "controversy" is a historical temperature reconstruction based on tree-ring data. Gore has nothing to do with this.



There's more to climate research than temperature reconstructions from tree rings. You can dump the whole tree ring idea if you like, there's still tons of evidence pointing towards man-made increase in global temperatures.
I was just using that one thing as an example of how there is evidence on ALL sides of the possible issue pointing in completely oppsite directions.
 

digsbe

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Data available from CRU

Have at it.

If the skeptics want more than that, they'll have to go cut up some trees themselves.
Global warming: An inquiry that doesn't look at the science cannot understand Climategate
I would encourage you to look at other sources. The science behind climategate wasn't even looked at. These guys vindicated them without even looking at the very thing that was accused to be flawed. I'll look at the CRU data, but how can I know it isn't manipulated or fraudulent when these investigations don't even look into it?
 

Deuce

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Global warming: An inquiry that doesn't look at the science cannot understand Climategate
I would encourage you to look at other sources. The science behind climategate wasn't even looked at. These guys vindicated them without even looking at the very thing that was accused to be flawed. I'll look at the CRU data, but how can I know it isn't manipulated or fraudulent when these investigations don't even look into it?
They don't look into the scientific methodology, only whether or not the data was manipulated. The data was not manipulated, period.
The methodology gets looked at in the peer-review process. The papers published are freely available.

People who don't understand the scientific process shouldn't pre-judge its outcome.
 
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digsbe

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They don't look into the scientific methodology, only whether or not the data was manipulated. The data was not manipulated, period.
The methodology gets looked at in the peer-review process. The papers published are freely available.

People who don't understand the scientific process shouldn't pre-judge its outcome.
I believe the data was manipulated, and it's evident in the emails. Again, they are setting up their own people to vindicate themselves. If they are truly innocent then why don't they allow a group of skeptics to look into everything? Common sense would say they desperately need to cover up their lies, and thus they set up investigations that will vindicate them. Would you trust an independent panel of hardcore conservative Republicans to vindicate a Republican who was accused of lying?
 

iangb

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I believe the data was manipulated, and it's evident in the emails. Again, they are setting up their own people to vindicate themselves. If they are truly innocent then why don't they allow a group of skeptics to look into everything? Common sense would say they desperately need to cover up their lies, and thus they set up investigations that will vindicate them. Would you trust an independent panel of hardcore conservative Republicans to vindicate a Republican who was accused of lying?
The problem with this is twofold.

Firstly, the UEA set up the inquiry - but only so far as to ask Muir Russel to chair it and then stepped back. Muir was quoted at the time as saying "My first task is to scope the project, gather the information I need and source the additional expertise that will be required in order to investigate fully the allegations that have been made." - he then went on to set up the rest of the investigation. As you can see from his wiki page, he has very reason to be biased.

Secondly, you're saying "they were probably all biased". That's not the same as giving evidence that they were.
 

Deuce

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I believe the data was manipulated, and it's evident in the emails. Again, they are setting up their own people to vindicate themselves. If they are truly innocent then why don't they allow a group of skeptics to look into everything? Common sense would say they desperately need to cover up their lies, and thus they set up investigations that will vindicate them. Would you trust an independent panel of hardcore conservative Republicans to vindicate a Republican who was accused of lying?
Skeptics have been given access to their data. Funny how that never gets talked about.
The emails are out of context and misrepresented. There's still that issue about the other thousands of scientists in other fields and other projects with evidence pointing towards AGW. Did all of them manipulate data? How did they all do it in a manner that doesn't contradict eachother?
 

danarhea

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I believe the data was manipulated, and it's evident in the emails. Again, they are setting up their own people to vindicate themselves. If they are truly innocent then why don't they allow a group of skeptics to look into everything? Common sense would say they desperately need to cover up their lies, and thus they set up investigations that will vindicate them. Would you trust an independent panel of hardcore conservative Republicans to vindicate a Republican who was accused of lying?
Just a weird observation here from me - I find it quite interesting that many of those who are accusing scientists of coverups and manipulation of data were so quick to defend the manipulation of data that led us into Iraq, without even blinking an eye, or asking a single question.
 

Deuce

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Just a weird observation here from me - I find it quite interesting that many of those who are accusing scientists of coverups and manipulation of data were so quick to defend the manipulation of data that led us into Iraq, without even blinking an eye, or asking a single question.
They aren't asking questions about the "evidence" of data manipulation either. They want to believe it's true, so they just accept whatever they read off a blog or Daily Mail as gospel.
 

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The whole global warming massive crisis "oh my god we are all gonna die" thing has kinda settled down...ya notice that? Why...you would ALMOST think it was just like abortion...a hotbutton issue that politicians only use when they are trying to get reelected and scientists only use it to get their **** funded...

Ya know...I dont think these people are liars. I think they are true believers...they honestly believe this bull****. the problem is...all of their 'evidence' is flawed and falls flat and they know it and it frustrates the hell out of them. See...thats the problem...when you make a cake out of dog **** it still smells like dog **** and so you have to disguise it...add frosting...but sooner or later other people catch on to it so you have to add more frosting...and more...but it STILL smells like dog **** and you just cant understand why this cake that you WANT to smell good and taste good still smells like ****...and then when people demand to see the ingredients you say hell no...because you know then people will know that the major staple in your cake is dog****. So instead you entice other true believers to have little bites...and they taste the frosting but deep down they REALLY know its dog****...but they have to cling to their true belief...so they pretend it doesnt taste like **** and smell like ****...but everyone knows...and thats really really ****ty...because they realize they have been peddling this **** and even eating this **** for so long...and if they stop they would just look even MORE stupid...but maybe...juuuuuuust maybe...one day it will smell good...and taste good...and THEN they will be vindicated...
 

iangb

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The whole global warming massive crisis "oh my god we are all gonna die" thing has kinda settled down...ya notice that? Why...you would ALMOST think it was just like abortion...a hotbutton issue that politicians only use when they are trying to get reelected and scientists only use it to get their **** funded...

Ya know...I dont think these people are liars. I think they are true believers...they honestly believe this bull****. the problem is...all of their 'evidence' is flawed and falls flat and they know it and it frustrates the hell out of them. See...thats the problem...when you make a cake out of dog **** it still smells like dog **** and so you have to disguise it...add frosting...but sooner or later other people catch on to it so you have to add more frosting...and more...but it STILL smells like dog **** and you just cant understand why this cake that you WANT to smell good and taste good still smells like ****...and then when people demand to see the ingredients you say hell no...because you know then people will know that the major staple in your cake is dog****. So instead you entice other true believers to have little bites...and they taste the frosting but deep down they REALLY know its dog****...but they have to cling to their true belief...so they pretend it doesnt taste like **** and smell like ****...but everyone knows...and thats really really ****ty...because they realize they have been peddling this **** and even eating this **** for so long...and if they stop they would just look even MORE stupid...but maybe...juuuuuuust maybe...one day it will smell good...and taste good...and THEN they will be vindicated...
No evidence, just a rambling extended metaphor?

As for the 'massive crisis' - it's still going on. It's just that the media has got bored - there's far less 'controvosy' to report now so they don't pay as much attention. They do it all the time there's still a certain oil pipe that BP have yet to plug, but I haven't seen that story in the news for a good few days now.
 

Deuce

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...nobody is saying we're all going to die. This straw man is so old it's turning into a mold-man.
 

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No evidence, just a rambling extended metaphor?

As for the 'massive crisis' - it's still going on. It's just that the media has got bored - there's far less 'controvosy' to report now so they don't pay as much attention. They do it all the time there's still a certain oil pipe that BP have yet to plug, but I haven't seen that story in the news for a good few days now.
Sure...I'll post 20 links from an anti warming site that supports my view and you post 20...it will be a GREAT exercise in mutual masturbation and accomplish exactly nothing.

that rambling metaphor pretty accurately expressed what I think about the whole thing. Do with it what you will. Now...I know you are VERY open minded...right? (sorry...I just snorted out a little coffee out of my nose when I wrote that) So...you being a reasoned...rational, thinking and unbiased type...you have a MUCH better explanation as to why in their emails they express frustration that the evidence doesnt show what they expect it to show...why they have to trick data to get it to say what they want it to say...and on and on and on...

true believers...God love em...
 

iangb

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Sure...I'll post 20 links from an anti warming site that supports my view and you post 20...it will be a GREAT exercise in mutual masturbation and accomplish exactly nothing.

that rambling metaphor pretty accurately expressed what I think about the whole thing. Do with it what you will. Now...I know you are VERY open minded...right? (sorry...I just snorted out a little coffee out of my nose when I wrote that) So...you being a reasoned...rational, thinking and unbiased type...you have a MUCH better explanation as to why in their emails they express frustration that the evidence doesnt show what they expect it to show...why they have to trick data to get it to say what they want it to say...and on and on and on...

true believers...God love em...
All you're doing is showing that you haven't read into the matter further than the right-wing blogosphere. You are just as guilty as anyone of interpreting the available evidence in a way that support your presuppositions.
 

VanceMack

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All you're doing is showing that you haven't read into the matter further than the right-wing blogosphere. You are just as guilty as anyone of interpreting the available evidence in a way that support your presuppositions.
Actually I have read far more from both sides than you could ever possibly imagine nor would believe. Climate change isnt a mystery to mankind...its occured since the earth was formed and we have had climates. The only mystery is how people can be so completely gullible as to accept that we have HAD these undeniable historical events but THIS one...to whatever extent it is...THIS one is caused by man.

And heres the truly sad part...BECAUSE there have been so many lies and overexaggerations and flat out deceptions coupled with the do as I say not as I do behaviors of douchebags like Al Gore, the common ground we could find...you and me...you know...pollution controls...improving air quality, rivers, etc...gets lost in the 17 foot walls of water

If the proof they had was real and legit they would be PROUD of it...up front about it...they wouldnt be planting temp sensors on blacktops and next to air conditioning exhaust vents. They wouldnt be tricking computer models.

But you go on and believe whatever you want.
 
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