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Fight Back, Mr. President

KCConservative said:
:spin:

Those are wonderful opinions, sham. Tell me, is there anything you have to back them up? Furthermore, how's that impeachment coming?
I guess I get to put up this phrase again. "you say you want me to present evidence when you didn't provide any to prove your statements. That is what we call hypocrisy."

You still are yet to provide me evidence as well. I don't want an impeachment right now ebcause then we would get Karl as president. There are some great books out there to back me up, and I would suggest you read them and improve your knowledge. One of them is Plan of Attack, which is really quite fascincating. It is by Bob Woodward, one of the most respected journalists in our history and an all-around patriot. It was even recommended reading by the Bush Administration for the 2004 election (I kid you not). It describes poor judgment and lousy planning before the war. Start with that book, and then we will talk.
 
Navy Pride said:
I can remember how bad I felt when I was in Viet Nam and some people and the media in this country turned against us and we were told on returning to conus not to wear our uniforms off base because we would be called names and spit on by protestors of the war..........
I don't want to see that happen to our military in Iraq..
And it's NOT happening so why are you briging it up? Are you trying to create a divide where one doesn't exist? Your signature in your posts is completely biased and wrong as is this post.

I believe it is very safe to say that the vast, vast, vast majority of Americans completely support the amazing people in our military and pray for their return home to their families.

I do not support their mission, I think it was a colossal mistake to have invaded Iraq, and that we are far less safe today than we were the day before we invaded. However now that Bush has caused thousands and thousands of Americans to die or be maimed I pray that we can turn over the defense of Iraq to the Iraqis ASAP so that we can get the hell out of there and so that our brave soldiers can come home to their families and restart their lives.
 
KCConservative said:
And yet, your very words do cause your country ill. Trumping false charges and helping to divide this country on a political level directly aids and abets our enemy. They see the inner turmoil and, no doubt, rachet up the offense which, in turn, kills our brave men and women on the battlefield. If our country were united in ideology and honesly interested in winning the war, there is no enemy that would dare take us on. This, quite possibly, could be over by now.
And it would not be the USA! Your post is outrageously scary! You truly believe that we should all think alike and not disagree when we believe that something is wrong? WOW!

I cannot comprehend how anyone can believe that we all should think alike and say the same $hit. I consider that brainwashing. I consider anyone who believes that to be brainwashed. Sorry you feel that way.
 
python416 said:
I believe it is possible to be behind the troops without being behind the civilian leadership of the military. I believe that challanging government is patriotic. I believe that challenging government, to ensure that war is only fought when it needs to be, is supporting the troops. And I don't expect alot of military servicemen to understand that, cause they are patriotic in their duty, and their duty is to execute the policy, not critic it.

But it is going to take some people who are patriotic in their challenging of government to fix this thing. The administration managed to build an environment where people who objected to anything they wanted to do were labelled as "terrorist lovers". Now the screw ups they made and lies they have told have eroded that shield, and people are free to object. And I don't hear anyone saying that they do not support the troops.

But I think it is a DISGRACE for Bush to leverage the troops for political cover, but not surprising. They will stoop to any level in politics. Look at Rove. He has been a dirty player since he got in the game, and he sets the tone for the whole administration.

I believe in peace, but unlike the useless left-wing nuts that suggest the US should cut and run from Iraq, I believe the exit straitgy needs to be more productive and future policy needs to be smarted than the policy that got the US into Iraq. I believe that the only way to get there is to get some "check and balance" going again in the congress. I believe the only way to get that is to have people object to the way the administration disabled those checks, lied to the people, and have screwed things up since they got in office.

We need change!

I don't know how it works in Canada but in the USA the President is the number 1 troop.......If you tell the troops you support them but you hate their commander in chief and want him to fail then you are telling the troops you want them to fail.......

The time to protest policy is before conflict begins.....Once the conflict begins if you support the troops you have to support their mission.......You have to put your bias and hate for President Bush aside.....

I did the with Clinton.......Although I think he was one of the worse presidents this country ever had once we had troops in harms way in Bosnia I backed him and the mission 100%

You can't have it both ways...........
 
KCConservative said:
The divison trumped up by the left kills our soldiers.
Wrong! What's killing them is George W. Bush and his cabal. He started a useless and unjustified war that has killed tens of thousands of people. Bush stopped chasing our real enemy and instead invaded Iraq, thus creating an even bigger enemy list and thus recruiting who knows how many more people to hate us.

You want to point your finger at the reason Americans are being killed every day? Point it at GEORGE W. BUSH, the only American president to invade another sovereign nation without there first being a war.

Fortunately the American people are waking up to this evil man and are now firmly against him, his cabal, and his bullshit war. Sadly this turn of events has come at the expense of way too many lives. How sick is that?
 
KCConservative said:
Furthermore, how's that impeachment coming?
:2funny: No one can be stupid enough to believe that the sitting party in power would impeach their own! Amazing! This is the real world, not some idiotic piece of fiction. In the real world Republicans are not about to impeach their boss.

However, in the real world chances are that one day George W. Bush will go down as one of the worst, if not the very worst President in our history. He's already the worst public speaker ever, and he's already the biggest war monger ever, and one day I think he will be considered the worst President ever.

Oh, let's not leave out good old 19% Dick Cheney! The only VP you can compare him to is Spiro Agnew! Now that's quite an accomplishment!
 
Navy Pride said:
I don't know how it works in Canada but in the USA the President is the number 1 troop.......If you tell the troops you support them but you hate their commander in chief and want him to fail then you are telling the troops you want them to fail.......

The time to protest policy is before conflict begins.....Once the conflict begins if you support the troops you have to support their mission.......You have to put your bias and hate for President Bush aside.....

I did the with Clinton.......Although I think he was one of the worse presidents this country ever had once we had troops in harms way in Bosnia I backed him and the mission 100%

You can't have it both ways...........

I did support the idea of challanging Iraq. But when it was clear they were rushing the timeline due to an "imminate threat" that many people could see was false even back then, then I knew that they were just trying to get the war they have been wanting since before 911. It all went down hill from there.

Time to protest policy may be before the war starts, but the whole story was never given to the public. They were lead to believe that Saddam was directly part of 911, and that if something wasn't done, we might wake up and have a city covered by a mushroom cloud. I mean that was the wording that was used. And no responsible intel agency in the world thought that Saddam had the resources to build even a gun-type Uranium bomb, let alone a delivery method to bring it to US soil. I mean common, the only crediable person in the administration was Powell, and even he says that is was a mistake (or whatever his wording is these days).

A
 
Navy Pride said:
I don't know how it works in Canada but in the USA the President is the number 1 troop.......If you tell the troops you support them but you hate their commander in chief and want him to fail then you are telling the troops you want them to fail.
:rofl The opposite Navy, remember? Your post not only insults Canadians it also insults our Military! Good job! I think our soldiers are way smart enough to understand to think for themselves, not to fall lockstep behind someone just because he's the President. This isn't Nazi America, and Bush is not our Fuhrer.
Navy Pride said:
The time to protest policy is before conflict begins.....Once the conflict begins if you support the troops you have to support their mission.......You have to put your bias and hate for President Bush aside.
How many times must I type this Navy? You need to post the opposite of what you're thinking to get it right. Try it on your next post and see how many of us out here agree with you? The USA was built on freedoms, specifically freedom of speech and freedom to dissent. Brainwashing is most definitely un-American and is better left out of the USA.
Navy Pride said:
I did the with Clinton.
Are you referring to the numerous posts where you called him a RAPIST, POTHEAD, DRAFT DODGER etc.? Is that what you mean when you write that you supported President Clinton?

You know Navy when I read some of the words in your posts I COSTANZA you.
 
I think the terrorists insurgents in Iraq love the whacky left in this country.....They know they can not defeat our military on the battlefield but they know the left in this country has no stomach for the fight and if they just hold out long enough public opinion will turn in favor of the whacky left like it did in Nam and we will cut and run again.....

I have my disagreements with President Bush on some issues but I know he will not cut and run like the left want to do..............He will see the job through to its satisfactory completion...........

Thank you President Bush........We will not have another Viet Nam as long as you are president........
 
Navy Pride said:
Thank you President Bush........We will not have another Viet Nam as long as you are president........
Yeah, thanks so much President Bush for invading another country that was zero threat to the USA. Great going! Not another Vietnam? What a great accomplishment! Is that the best thing you can say about this war? "We will not have another Vietnam"?

What we do have is IRAQ. A uniquely horrible mistake on it's own, a tragic one at that.

As we approach $300 billion in money spent so far can you imagine what we would have accomplished if we had spent that money on ridding the world of Al Quaeda? Instead, Bush has become the poster boy for Al Quaeda's recruiters.

How come there are more in Al Quaeda today than in February 2003? Can anyone explain this one to me?
 
python416 said:
I did support the idea of challanging Iraq. But when it was clear they were rushing the timeline due to an "imminate threat" that many people could see was false even back then, then I knew that they were just trying to get the war they have been wanting since before 911. It all went down hill from there.

Time to protest policy may be before the war starts, but the whole story was never given to the public. They were lead to believe that Saddam was directly part of 911, and that if something wasn't done, we might wake up and have a city covered by a mushroom cloud. I mean that was the wording that was used. And no responsible intel agency in the world thought that Saddam had the resources to build even a gun-type Uranium bomb, let alone a delivery method to bring it to US soil. I mean common, the only crediable person in the administration was Powell, and even he says that is was a mistake (or whatever his wording is these days).

A

You say the whole story was not given for the war...I say it was as it was known at the time.......I know of no responsible person who said Saddam was connected to 9/11/01.......I mean there are people out there that can't name the VP......Now that kind of person might believe anything.......

I do know he supported terrorism because he gave 25K to the families of suicide bomber in Israel..............One thing for sure he can't do that anymore............

I guess my question for you is if Saddam did not have WOMD why didn't he just say so? Why didn't he invite the inspectors back in and inspect anywhere they wished even if it was his bedroom? If he had done that then he would still be in power and his 2 sons would be free to murder and rape 12 year ol virgins in front of their parents......

Sorry, it just does not make sense.............
 
It was nice to see GW finally fight back. The folks on the left have been trying to get GW out of office since he got elected. Too bad it hasn't worked yet. :mrgreen: A bunch of delusional people if you ask me. They have repeated the same lies so often they believe it themselves. They had three hearings on this already and they all found the President didn't lie to get us into the war. How many more should we have? Would you be happy with 5, 10 or how about 20? I don't think you would stop lying about it. How much money will it cost? Why aren't you asking that question. :roll:
 
Squawker said:
It was nice to see GW finally fight back. The folks on the left have been trying to get GW out of office since he got elected. Too bad it hasn't worked yet. :mrgreen: A bunch of delusional people if you ask me. They have repeated the same lies so often they believe it themselves. They had three hearings on this already and they all found the President didn't lie to get us into the war. How many more should we have? Would you be happy with 5, 10 or how about 20? I don't think you would stop lying about it. How much money will it cost? Why aren't you asking that question. :roll:

Exactly, all the democrats do is complain and bellyache....They have no solutions to any problem just the usual left wing talking points..........The American people are way to smart for that.........
 
Navy Pride said:
Exactly, all the democrats do is complain and bellyache....They have no solutions to any problem just the usual left wing talking points..........The American people are way to smart for that.........
There you go again with that "no solutions" crap. Didn't I set you straight the last time? Nevermind, go ahead and keep regurgitating the same whiny rhetoric. I won't try again, you won't read it anyway.
 
Navy Pride said:
You say the whole story was not given for the war...I say it was as it was known at the time.......I know of no responsible person who said Saddam was connected to 9/11/01.......I mean there are people out there that can't name the VP......Now that kind of person might believe anything.......

I do know he supported terrorism because he gave 25K to the families of suicide bomber in Israel..............One thing for sure he can't do that anymore............

I guess my question for you is if Saddam did not have WOMD why didn't he just say so? Why didn't he invite the inspectors back in and inspect anywhere they wished even if it was his bedroom? If he had done that then he would still be in power and his 2 sons would be free to murder and rape 12 year ol virgins in front of their parents......

Sorry, it just does not make sense.............

Just as Han Blix said before the war, "it is hard to see how you can be 100% sure that they have WMD, and still not know where they are". Cheney said he was sure, but there wasn't. He lied right there, and that is only 1 of many.

You may not know of anyone reasonable who thought Saddam was connected to 911, but Bush repeated talked about 911 and Saddam in the same sentence, and he carefully lead the country believe that was the case.

From http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3118262.stm:

The comments - among his most explicit so far on the issue - come after a recent opinion poll found that nearly 70% of Americans believed the Iraqi leader was personally involved in the attacks.

What exactly do you think was fuelling this false belief? If you don't think it is the result of the administrations propaganda machine, you are being naive.

In the same way that he said "major combat operations are over" behind a banner saying "mission accomplished", he was careful with his words, got the message across he wanted, but retained the ability to go back to the record and say "I never said that". Politicians do it all the time, the problem is that he is doing it with a war - you need to be straight with the people when it comes to war. He was not.

Saddam's crimes against humanity are beside the point - that is not the case that was made at the time. If he is to go for that, then we should also look at Saudi Arabia - but we can't when they already buy F-16s from the US.
 
KCConservative said:
Last Tuesday, Harry Reid took to the floor of the Senate and asserted that the Bush administration had "manufactured and manipulated intelligence in order to sell the war in Iraq and attempted to destroy those who dared to challenge its actions." This is a serious charge; if it were true, it might well be an indictable offense. But it is, in reality, a slander. Shouldn't the president defend his honor?

It is defintely true and the president has no honor. He proved that when he chose to turn a speech honoring veterans into an attack on the critics of his failing presidency. Get your head out of the sand.
 
python416 said:
Just as Han Blix said before the war, "it is hard to see how you can be 100% sure that they have WMD, and still not know where they are".
I agree! Recall that Bush was unwilling to allow the UN Inspectors to complete their work, citing "imminent" threat that could not wait until the process was complete.
python416 said:
Cheney said he was sure, but there wasn't. He lied right there, and that is only 1 of many.
How about Colin Powell's speech to the UN in Feb. 2003? He even used pictures to show where the WMDs were, the bullshit mobil factories etc. I watched that speech that day and he convinced me that there were WMDs in Iraq. I took what he said as fact. Why wouldn't I? Of all the Bushies he was the most creditable to me, not a Neocon, he was a guy to trust.

Sadly, it turns out that he was in on the fix. You're right about the manipulation of the facts. What Bush did was promote heavily the intelligence that stated there were WMDs, Nukes etc. and completely ignored the intelligence that said there weren't any. He and his evil henchmen only spoke to their side of the argument, over and over again.

I also love when Bush mentions the Democrats who voted for the war. It is fact that they did not have access to the same intelligence that Bush had AND, just as importantly, Bush had stirred up so much anti-Iraq sentiment that to many Democrats a vote against the war was made to out to be unpatriotic, and would have been very hard, at the time, to explain to their constituients. Basically, IMHO, Bush intimidated many Dems into voting for the war.

This was done by hiding the intelligence that questioned all of the points that Bush was selling. What we got was propaganda to the nth degree. Let's remember that according to Richard Clark, Bush's National Security Adviser the day after 9-11, Bush asked Clark to make a case for the invastion of Iraq!

I also agree with you that Bush / Bush's Brain cleverly mixed Iraq into most conversations about 9-11. It reminds me of the lies that Reagan use to tell, over and over and over again, so often that eventually the public starts to believe it as fact. Since more than 70% of Americans at the start of the war thought that Saddam was tied into 9-11 how can anyone suggest that Bush wasn't the one making that case?

Even for the 2004 Presidential election a majority of people who voted for Bush believed we found WMDs in Iraq! Americans are not that stupid. They were used through propaganda by Bush and his Brain.

Even this week Bush in his speech refuses to alter his bullshit claims. He's still manipulating the public. He still refuses to take any ownership for his own decisions. Instead of standing up and saying I made these decisions and stand by them he chose to try to convince people that Democrats were involved in the decision making too!

Bush is in charge of all US foreign policy. He made all the decisions, right and wrong. He's such a fuc%ing addict from his alcoholic days that he still cannot admit when he's wrong, he has way too much foolish pride to allow himself the humility to admit he erred, just like raging alcoholics do.

Some people admire Bush for his loyalty, cite it over and over again as one of his strengths. I look at it a bit differently. His damn pride = his damn loyalty, to a fault, to the point that he will not alter a failing strategy because his pride won't allow it.

We've got a damn addict running our country, and he needs a 12 Step program really badly because he is unable to turn his will and his life over to his higher power. Ironic, isn't it?
 
python416 said:
Just as Han Blix said before the war, "it is hard to see how you can be 100% sure that they have WMD, and still not know where they are". Cheney said he was sure, but there wasn't. He lied right there, and that is only 1 of many.

You may not know of anyone reasonable who thought Saddam was connected to 911, but Bush repeated talked about 911 and Saddam in the same sentence, and he carefully lead the country believe that was the case.

From http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3118262.stm:

The comments - among his most explicit so far on the issue - come after a recent opinion poll found that nearly 70% of Americans believed the Iraqi leader was personally involved in the attacks.

What exactly do you think was fuelling this false belief? If you don't think it is the result of the administrations propaganda machine, you are being naive.

In the same way that he said "major combat operations are over" behind a banner saying "mission accomplished", he was careful with his words, got the message across he wanted, but retained the ability to go back to the record and say "I never said that". Politicians do it all the time, the problem is that he is doing it with a war - you need to be straight with the people when it comes to war. He was not.

Saddam's crimes against humanity are beside the point - that is not the case that was made at the time. If he is to go for that, then we should also look at Saudi Arabia - but we can't when they already buy F-16s from the US.

Every democratic politician said Saddam had WOMD as did every republican......The intelligence was probably wrong...I am still glad we took Saddam out..The world is a much safer place without him..

Mistakes are made in every war.....The banner on the carrier was the wrong thing to do...........

As far as the Saudis go we get the bulk of our oil from them..........You liberals won't let us drill for our own oil so don't whine about that......
 
I think President Bush's speech on Veterans Day was right on the mark and long overdue.........I am sick of the lies coming out of the whacko left........
 
dragonslayer said:
It is defintely true and the president has no honor. He proved that when he chose to turn a speech honoring veterans into an attack on the critics of his failing presidency. Get your head out of the sand.
Do you know how pathetic Bush really is? In his Veteran's Day speech he resorted to one of his Brain's favorite tactics, riling up his base to support things that are unimportant but come across as a litmus test of one's patriotism.

He had the balls to bring up in his speech how America needs a CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT banning flag burning! Gee what a giant problem that is here in the USA! Let's spend tens of millions of dollars we already do not have on this subject! When's the last time you heard of a flag burning incident in the USA? When's the last time you heard a public outcry over this?

Bush's Brain simply wants to divert attention away from Iraq and create other ways to measure loyalty to Bush and to be patriotic.
I've joined with the veterans groups to call on Congress to protect the flag of the United States in the Constitution of the United States. (Applause.) In June, the House of Representatives voted for a constitutional amendment to ban flag desecration. I urge the United States Senate to pass this important amendment. (Applause.)
Source: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/11/20051111-1.html

He's pandering again. He speaks with forked tongue. Just look at his budget to see how much he supports Vets in the coming years!

Some will argue that Vet spending is going up, but, as with the propaganda about the Iraq war, that is not compeltely accurate. Despite spending increasing overall, some areas are being cut.

Veterans' Benefits: The Bush budget plan slashes benefits for veterans by eliminating funding for state programs that provide veterans with long-term care, more than doubling prescription drug co-payments for some veterans, and requiring them to pay an annual enrollment fee of $250. The Bush plan would also trim nursing home care by $351 million, which would eliminate approximately 5,000 beds in nursing homes run by the Veterans Administration.
Source: http://www.afscme.org/action/fy2006.htm

This is a good example of Bush semantics. He says he's raising benefits to Vets, but he is also cutting them too. Didn't he give Kerry a hard time in 2004 by continuously saying "He voted for it, then he voted against it"? Sounds like this qualifies as flip flopping to me...
 
Navy Pride said:
Every democratic politician said Saddam had WOMD as did every republican.
This is an out an out LIE. Many Democrats voted against the war and did question whether Saddam possessed WMDs (BTW - It's WMDS, NOT WOMD!) REad my previous post to see how Bush manipulated Dems into voting for the war at a time when America was smarting from 9-11 and to many pols a vote against the war would have been political suicide. This was all part of the master plan by Bush's Brain. It would be brilliant if not for the fact that the brilliance is now responsible for tens of thousands of Americans who are now dead or maimed. Real brilliance!
Navy Pride said:
The intelligence was probably wrong...I am still glad we took Saddam out..The world is a much safer place without him.
Great, really worth the $400 billion dollars plus so far and the lives of tens of thousands of Americans. Think about how many lives have been damaged by Bush's decision to start a war? Not just the actual soldiers, but all of their family and friends.
Navy Pride said:
As far as the Saudis go we get the bulk of our oil from them..........You liberals won't let us drill for our own oil so don't whine about that......
Gee, wrong...again...our largest source of imported oil are MEXICO & CANADA! Saudi is 3rd, Venezuela 4th & Nigeria 5th.

Source: http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/...ons/company_level_imports/current/import.html

Remember Navy, write the opposite of what you think and you'll have a chance of getting some fact right once in awhile.

Saudi is the world's largest exporter of oil, but not to us. You know who the 2nd largest exporter of oil is? Do you Navy? Did you say RUSSIA? Do you know who's number 3? Bet you didn't say Norway?

Non-Opec nation account for an average of 60% of the world's oil exports over the last 20 years.
 
Navy Pride said:
I don't know how it works in Canada but in the USA the President is the number 1 troop.......If you tell the troops you support them but you hate their commander in chief and want him to fail then you are telling the troops you want them to fail.......

The time to protest policy is before conflict begins.....Once the conflict begins if you support the troops you have to support their mission.......You have to put your bias and hate for President Bush aside.....

I did the with Clinton.......Although I think he was one of the worse presidents this country ever had once we had troops in harms way in Bosnia I backed him and the mission 100%

You can't have it both ways...........
Commander and Chief, as you damn well know, is a civilian posistion. Now, would I hate a man like Tommy Franks? No. Why? Because he is doing a job, nothing more, nothing less. He is a soldier, and the same cannot be said for Bush.

Did you really back Clinton? I can almost bet you called for him to stop idiotic policies, but hey, you might be telling the truth. If you are...your idea is idiotic. You need to be able to still support the troops and question the policy behind their actions.
 
Navy Pride said:
Every democratic politician said Saddam had WOMD as did every republican......The intelligence was probably wrong...I am still glad we took Saddam out..The world is a much safer place without him..

Mistakes are made in every war.....The banner on the carrier was the wrong thing to do...........

As far as the Saudis go we get the bulk of our oil from them..........You liberals won't let us drill for our own oil so don't whine about that......

The intel was wrong. And having people say they think he has weapons is a lot different then rushing to war saying it is because he has weapons. Rightys love to quote Clinton and whatnot, but in the end, even Bush's father didn't want to go into Iraq, cause he was worried that the US would get into the same type of situation that the US is now in.

Was Bush's father just another left wing nut?

Bush twisted the intel, made a case based on facts supporting a worse case senerio while discounting everything that suggested a non-worse case senerio. It is a distortion by definition. And the difference between a distortion and a lie is symantics.

The banner on the carrier was bis mistake, but relative to all the other mistakes, it was small. The Banner didn't cost any lives; it was the bombs and gunfire.

Don't try to take your false arguments drum up some kinda of anti-environmentalist twist to it. The US is there for oil, and the fact that the Bush administration insists on binding the next decade's economy to petrolum is the fault of his own cronism and the reality of a scarce resource.

PS) Are you saying it is OK for Saudi's to commit crimes against their own people cause the US buys oil from them? Nice moral superiority!
 
Navy Pride said:
I think President Bush's speech on Veterans Day was right on the mark and long overdue.........I am sick of the lies coming out of the whacko left........

You are OK with it cause you support the war. Those who do not, especially those that are veterans or families of, I imagine were very offended. Both groups are within their rights to think what they want.

In my opinion, it was just as distasteful as when he went to the Normany ceremony in the summer and compared he fight of choice with the sacrafices of those who died against the Nazis.
 
python416 said:
Bush twisted the intel, made a case based on facts supporting a worse case senerio while discounting everything that suggested a non-worse case senerio. It is a distortion by definition. And the difference between a distortion and a lie is symantics.
Yes, we have heard your side make this claim for a couple of years now. Maybe someone will start listening when you guys bring a shred of evidence supporting it. The president is now on the offensive against these lies. It's about time.
 
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