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Feminists treat men badly.

Hawkeye10

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Feminists treat men badly. It’s bad for feminism.

The fixation on men behaving badly distracts from more fundamental issues.

By Cathy Young
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We are headed into an election with what is likely to be a nearly unprecedented gender gap among voters. To some extent, these numbers reflect policy differences. Yet it is not too far-fetched to see the pro-Trump sentiment as fueled, at least in part, by a backlash against feminism. And while some of this backlash may be of the old-fashioned “put women in their place” variety, there is little doubt that for the younger generation, the perception of feminism as extremist and anti-male plays a role, too.

This theme emerged in Conor Friedersdorf’s recent interview in the Atlantic with a Trump supporter, a college-educated, 22-year-old resident of San Francisco who considers himself a feminist and expects his career to take a back seat to that of his higher-earning fiancee — but who also complains about being “shamed” as a white man and voices concern about false accusations of rape.

As this campaign shows, our fractured culture is badly in need of healing — from the gender wars as well as other divisions. To be a part of this healing, feminism must include men, not just as supportive allies but as partners, with an equal voice and equal humanity.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/post...hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-e:homepage/story

right on the money

:bravo:
 

RAMOSS

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Hawkeye10

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It looks like typical libertarian bigoted funk to me. It certainly does not understand what feminism is.

What it is and what it (claims to be/thinks it is) are barely related according to many of us, and our opinion matters as much as yours does, or theirs does.
 
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Eric7216

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Any movement gets taken over by more extreme elements as time goes by and feminism has been largely taken over by men haters. It is not longer the feminism of the 70s.
 

Hawkeye10

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Any movement gets taken over by more extreme elements as time goes by and feminism has been largely taken over by men haters. It is not longer the feminism of the 70s.

It was not by 85, they did not have power yet but there was already a strong insurgency of radical man hating middle and upper class dykes on the campuses. By the mid 90's they had take over, and purged the conservatives.

You are correct overall sir, though they will pretend to be if they think there be profit in it.
 
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RAMOSS

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What it is and what it (claims to be/thinks it is) are barely related according to many of us, and our opinion matters as much as yours does, or theirs does.

I woudl have to say.. well.. ones source, and misunderstanding of the situation shows personal bias. Some people make statements that insure that reasonable people won't respect them.
 

Hawkeye10

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I woudl have to say.. well.. ones source, and misunderstanding of the situation shows personal bias. Some people make statements that insure that reasonable people won't respect them.

Oh, you mean like some random person on the internet expecting to be taken seriously on the subject of feminism with an argument so weak it practically does not exist, while talking to a guy who was for several years during the 80's a feminist (as much as a man can be)??

If you want my attention you are going to have to make a credible argument.

"You are ignorant" is not an argument, in case you are confused.

Seriously.
 

SCitizen

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Feminism stands for equality. How can anyone oppose it. Why would anyone claim they hate men?

According to an article We need a Mandemic on one of major Canadian feminist sites:

What can be done? Well, I’ve decided the Earth needs a Mandemic. The human herd must be culled, and it’s time for buck season.

There could be a virus that causes gene mutations in men that rewrites their DNA. Then, when men have sex with women, they are drained of their DNA, “where it is then implanted into females, causing the death of the males. As a result, new males are constantly created and harvested” by women, as suits their needs.

Ok. You probably do love men. Most women have some men in their lives that they dearly love. There are tons of wonderful men! So sure, it will be sad and tragic when the Mandemic rages with the fire of a thousand suns and randomly selects enough male victims to disrupt the current power structure around the world. This will be necessary to create an opening for women to become equal — maybe even dominant.

But isn’t our only hope the removal of excessive male humans from the continents?
 

Hawkeye10

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Feminism stands for equality. How can anyone oppose it. Why would anyone claim they hate men?

According to an article We need a Mandemic on one of major Canadian feminist sites:



Equality is NOT the goal, they turned out to not be satisfied with that when they got the idea that they could grab more.

You are 20 years out of date at the very least, I was in 1986 meeting feminists who wanted more.

Human nature struck again.

SAD.
 

SmokeAndMirrors

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Feminists treat men badly. It’s bad for feminism.

The fixation on men behaving badly distracts from more fundamental issues.

By Cathy Young

right on the money

:bravo:

More complaining from people who don't WANT to understand.

The link this article provides to Straight White Boys Texting, as a supposed example of feminists just being mean about men, is actually fully of men sending gross, objectifying messages to women they don't even know, demanding boobs, harping on race, and describing how they want to pound the **** out of them. Why shouldn't they be complaining about that, exactly? Why shouldn't men be expected to just be civilized to women online?

The fact that this writer, and you, don't see the problem with that, is exactly the problem.

Feminism does include men. Lots of men are feminists.

Feminism also includes male issues. I've seen lots of feminist discussion and action about issues men have on a number of issues, from mental health to child custody.

I've had a lot of success talking to men I know who are about as high on the privilege ladder as it's possible to be about various concepts of social inequality, and I've never had one tell me I'm shaming them. I have had a couple, if they had never thought about these issues before, feel sort of guilty, but I also have a whole spiel prepared on exactly why they feel that way and why they shouldn't, which sorts that problem out quickly. They never walk away from me still feeling that way.

It is normal and expected that, when hearing about these things for the first time, a decent person may be tempted to feel shame, or anger, depending on what side of the ladder they're on. It's an expected reaction of our empathic minds, which still think more like we live in small tribes than the massive societies that we actually do. So they tend to think, on a subliminal level, "This is the group I belong to (which is implicitly small and therefore I have an implicitly large role in the reason it is the way it is), so I feel bad."

Wrong response. We live in massive societies. An individual can have almost no role in any of it, no matter where they're born in the kyriarchy. We shouldn't drag ourselves over the coals for beliefs we may have picked up from society when we were still in diapers. We all have those things -- even those of us who have been in activism for 10 years, as I have. We just have to do the best we can, and try to improve day by day.

Being helpful from a privileged place in the kyriarchy (and pretty much all of us are privileged in one way or another) is actually easy. Spend some time learning about the issues affecting people on the other side of the ladder, be a good listener, and observe yourself for what sorts of messages and beliefs you've adopted over the years. Be supportive and understanding for people you know who are facing struggles that you perhaps don't. Easy.

But, here's the rub. The men I know in my own life who are really high on the privilege ladder are still fundamentally nice people, even if, when we meet, they are totally unaware of the problems affecting other groups.

But, in larger society, men behaving badly are frankly just all over the place. Trump talks about women life furniture, or sometimes even just animals who shouldn't be freely roaming in public. So do many of his supporters. Men online stalk, harass, and bully women simply for existing in certain arenas, like gaming or sports, even if they have said absolutely nothing about politics or feminism -- just existing. MRA's have thousands of advocates for legalizing domestic violence and rape, exclusively against women. How can we possibly move on to stuff like workplace equality when we're still dealing with men who don't see women as people, much less equal colleagues?

Starting with a slate like that, and a serious contender for the presidency who is probably the most open misogynist I've seen in presidential politics in my entire life, what do you expect us to focus on?

It isn't because most men are bad. However, for some reason, the guys who ARE bad get a TON of airtime. For some reason, our society seeks out the bad ones and gives them a soapbox to scream on. For some reason, they are able to take over a lot more social time than their numbers should reasonably allow.

That's worth talking about. Even as men as a whole continue to become generally nicer and more equality-minded people, why do we still hunt out the crappy ones and throw power and microphones at them?

When most men are decent, why do people like Trump wind up being serious presidential nominees?

Stop hunting out bad men to support, and we'll stop talking so much about them. I'd love to move on and focus on more tangible things. But you're not letting me, or the majority of decent men, do that.
 

Henrin

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What feminists don't seem to understand is that men are sick and tired of being called the problem. Men are sick and tired of the constant attacks on the male gender as a whole. They're sick and tired of being blamed for every ****ing thing feminists think isn't women's way. For many men they're just sick and tired of hearing about the ****ing patriarchy. This constant blame men for ****ing everything has been ****ing old now for decades.

It would also be nice if I could actually go to feminist site and not see ****ing bull**** about how uninvited flirting is rape. Oh, I don't like you. RAPE!
 
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Henrin

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Another thing is the bull**** claims. The wage gap for example is complete garbage. Not only are they not comparing salaries in the same field to determine that there is a gap between men and women, but they are not even noticing that younger women are actually making MORE than younger men.
 

Henrin

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Feminists treat women equally as bad, and they are a equal opportunity hate group.

Indeed. They basically hate what it means to be a woman. What I find actually kind of ironic is that feminists hate men, but want women to be more like men.

Femininity and masculinity are treated as some kind of system created to oppress women. Feminists however think women should be more masculine. How does that logic even work?
 
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roguenuke

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The problem is that there are many, many different types of feminists and most people would rather refer to the extremists rather than the majority.
 

Henrin

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The problem is that there are many, many different types of feminists and most people would rather refer to the extremists rather than the majority.

Except the majority are full of bull**** claims and male hate too, so..
 

roguenuke

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Except the majority are full of bull**** claims and male hate too, so..

No. That would be your view based on your personal biases and hate, which we have all seen displayed here.
 

Henrin

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No. That would be your view based on your personal biases and hate, which we have all seen displayed here.

No, it's based on talking to them in real life and on the internet. It's always some bogus claim feminists are throwing out there, something they blaming men for, and something they demand be a woman's right that actually violates rights.
 

roguenuke

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No, it's based on talking to them in real life and on the internet. It's always some bogus claim feminists are throwing out there, something they blaming men for, and something they demand be a woman's right that actually violates rights.

Sure. It couldn't possibly be your personal view on anything you are discussing with them. It has to be their view that is the problem and if they don't have that view that you don't like, well then they aren't a feminist.
 

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I've never known a feminist who didn't have some form of "daddy problem", meaning unresolved/unrepaired damage in family-of-origin with regard to their father, their father who was either absent to some degree or abusive to some degree or overly hen-pecked/doting to some degree.

Because it is unresolved/unrepaired in therapy, it gets acted out in, with regard to feminist acting out, in the public political arena.

Though there are some societal-economic aspects that arguably need addressing regarding the so-called "gender gap", feminism takes irrelevant positions on issues such as abortion, race, religion, and the like depending on their specific family-of-origin conditions/situations.

But it is the unresolved/unrepaired family-of-origin damage with respect to their father that gives feminists their "passion" and continuous obsessive attitude to act out the "corrective emotional solution" to their childhood issues in the public political arena to create a "solution" to their own problems from their own childhood, problems that existed then, and cannot be "solved" by political action, and thus such acting out is always futile.
 

Deuce

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What feminists don't seem to understand is that men are sick and tired of being called the problem. Men are sick and tired of the constant attacks on the male gender as a whole. They're sick and tired of being blamed for every ****ing thing feminists think isn't women's way. For many men they're just sick and tired of hearing about the ****ing patriarchy. This constant blame men for ****ing everything has been ****ing old now for decades.

It would also be nice if I could actually go to feminist site and not see ****ing bull**** about how uninvited flirting is rape. Oh, I don't like you. RAPE!

Boo hoo people are pointing out bad things men do it's not faaaaaaair
 

Henrin

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Sure. It couldn't possibly be your personal view on anything you are discussing with them. It has to be their view that is the problem and if they don't have that view that you don't like, well then they aren't a feminist.

You mean like how many of their claims are factually false. For example, I know you support gender neutralism, but historically speaking it has never worked and pretty always results in some pretty interesting side effects. That however doesn't stop you from supporting it nor does it stop you from speaking against gender roles, which like it or not are naturally created to some degree and are found in many animal species.
 

roguenuke

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You mean like how many of their claims are factually false. For example, I know you support gender neutralism, but historically speaking it has never worked and pretty always results in some pretty interesting side effects. That however doesn't stop you from supporting it nor does it stop you from speaking against gender roles, which like it or not are naturally created to some degree and are found in many animal species.

They are not supported by reality. Most of the gender roles in humanity are artificial. They aren't natural.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Henrin

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Boo hoo people are pointing out bad things men do it's not faaaaaaair

Ever hear a feminist complain that men are the reason women don't get raises? I actually heard that one in person from a feminist that didn't realize her boss was a woman. :lamo
 

Henrin

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They are not supported by reality. Most of the gender roles in humanity are artificial. They aren't natural.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Gender roles as an idea are in fact supported by human history and the animal kingdom, sorry.

And frankly, you claim that most gender roles found in society are not supported by reality is kind of bizarre. For the most part they relate back to many roles found in nature.

What women like you are doing is trying to move society past gender roles by trying to tear little pieces off claiming they aren't fair or natural. To the most part your claims are utterly bogus.
 
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