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Feminists? In my games? It's more likely than you think.

There's actually a lot of misogyny in video games. And in movies. And on TV. Mainly, the issue is lack of female characters, and chiefly female main characters. Too many are just love interests, plot devices, damsels in distress to be rescued, or token females to bring diversity to a cast. Very few are actual characters in their own right. That, more than anything else, is the cause of feminist problems with video games and most of the media. Men have agency and make things happen. Women are just the targets of things happening to them.

I don't really know what to do about the prevalence of teenage boys (and men who never grew out of being teenage boys) online who don't know how to treat women like people. But driving female disempowerment out of the social consciousness might be a good start on that.
 
No, because she was being harassed and wanted the videos to be the focus, not the horrendous comments below.

And her arguments are quite sound, and based in reality, which makes people who want to pretend that there isn't a problem uncomfortable. Because it shoves the problem in their face in a way in which they can't ignore it, so they attack the messenger.

Are you really going to suggest that women are portrayed fairly, realistically, and as whole people in most games? Because that would be a ludicrous argument.

They are video games. They don't represent real life. And more often than not characters are not very well developed overall. The game is not a mirror of reality, it's just a game and it serves a commercial purpose. And balance is irrelevant. Just because 1 game starring a male protagonist pops up, doesn't mean a game starring a woman protagonist has to pop up. The game is just that, a game.

Making a big deal out of it just shows 2 things:
1. the feminist movement has outlived it's usefulness and is now a cultural terrorist.
2. western society has exhausted almost the major women problems and any other problems that remain can't be solved by feminism.

Also, let's discuss the game environment where most abuse happens. FPS. There is no character development in FPS's, at least not online FPS. You want to shout sexism in CS:GO because there are no female characters on terrorist or counterterrorist sides, be my guest. You want to enforce feminism in Call of Duty? There is no portrayal of anything there. the character development is about as deep as the shallow end of the pool and the multiplayer is just the same. And people get angry, people get worked up. When guys insult one another online, nothing is off the table. You'll see all sorts of insults flying around. Women don't get special treatment and aren't exempt from that.

And no, her arguments are stupid, so is her choice in video games. And it doesn't get better.
 
This is the kind of thing that makes me hate feminism. They take something that doesn't even matter and turns into a big****ing deal for no reason.
 
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No, because she was being harassed and wanted the videos to be the focus, not the horrendous comments below.

And her arguments are quite sound, and based in reality, which makes people who want to pretend that there isn't a problem uncomfortable. Because it shoves the problem in their face in a way in which they can't ignore it, so they attack the messenger.

Are you really going to suggest that women are portrayed fairly, realistically, and as whole people in most games? Because that would be a ludicrous argument.

I've seen these videos before, they're pretty good. I'm hoping that she addresses more tropes in depth later because this one is the most frequently talked about even without her input. I want what she is doing to truly be a discussion that examines this issue from all angles and not just one. If she illustrates only one then it's raw bias, and that's what many of the people who insulted this video picked up on (beyond being jerks I suppose). Have you read any articles by Patricia Hernandez? She usually does a good job, but she dropped the ball hard on two of her more recent articles.
 
They are video games. They don't represent real life. And more often than not characters are not very well developed overall. The game is not a mirror of reality, it's just a game and it serves a commercial purpose. And balance is irrelevant. Just because 1 game starring a male protagonist pops up, doesn't mean a game starring a woman protagonist has to pop up. The game is just that, a game.

Making a big deal out of it just shows 2 things:
1. the feminist movement has outlived it's usefulness and is now a cultural terrorist.
2. western society has exhausted almost the major women problems and any other problems that remain can't be solved by feminism.

Also, let's discuss the game environment where most abuse happens. FPS. There is no character development in FPS's, at least not online FPS. You want to shout sexism in CS:GO because there are no female characters on terrorist or counterterrorist sides, be my guest. You want to enforce feminism in Call of Duty? There is no portrayal of anything there. the character development is about as deep as the shallow end of the pool and the multiplayer is just the same. And people get angry, people get worked up. When guys insult one another online, nothing is off the table. You'll see all sorts of insults flying around. Women don't get special treatment and aren't exempt from that.

And no, her arguments are stupid, so is her choice in video games. And it doesn't get better.

They aren't just video games, these games don't live in a vacuum and are apart of our larger social and cultural ecosystem. They have an impact on what happens in the real world. They can either reinforce, or tear down backwards sexist thinking, (like all media has the ability too) and sadly most games reinforce those ideas.

This is a systemic problem where females are underrepresented in games(and media on the whole), and it needs to be solved on a systemic level. We need more games with strong female characters that exist on their own terms, and not on the terms of a man. And we need more games with strong female protagonists, outside of RPG's where one can create their own character these games are virtually non-existent.

And the abuse online is a different animal, that is about men creating a false "boys club", and anyone who intrudes in that space is not welcome. Which is why female gamers receive such abuse. Seriously, look at this site for a good hour and you'll know that the abuse females get online is very different from the standard online abuse that males receive. Fat, Ugly or Slutty

We aren't asking for special treatment, we are asking to be treated equally, and fairly, which isn't happening. I wouldn't hide my gender when I'm playing online if it didn't make a difference.

And you mention COD, well they just announced that they are adding female characters in Ghosts for multiplayer. Likely a direct response to their large female audience wanted better representation.
 
Exactly what I said, as long as it's in the game environment and doesn't transcend the game, that's it. The feminist movement must have no other issues to deal with if this is what they've decided to focus their attention on. This isn't even an issue.

Omg, people are rude online. Big deal.

Guys verbally abuse other guys online. It's not something that happens to women only. Women aren't and shouldn't exempt from online abuse.
You should see the kind of things men say to other men including some really gay stuff and not in the good way.

You did not read the linked source did you? Women received three times the number of negative comments. That is just one example.
 
Gender issues are always present. I understand if some people can't think about more than one thing at a time, but reality is what it is.

It disgusts me that many gamers employ the term "raped" to mean "won the game decidedly".



You fear societal evolution?

Is there a reason to question why no women were present at any particular E3 event? There were no women part of the developmental team. That isn't an issue related to gender, that didn't stop some to make it out to be. If they were there and were treated poorly previously and opted out of making an appearance, or were even treated poorly there then that is a gender issue.

Fear societal evolution? That's quite the step you're making. I never knew that having enough females in a game has any impact on it's quality. If women are presented poorly in a game, does that make it a weaker game? That's debatable. If it fits within the setting then maybe, but then there is DOA5 that did it for the hell of it and got slammed as a result. There's a difference between a game review and commentary, right? Anita Sarkessian makes commentary and passes it off as such. Now others need to follow suit.
 
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Yeah, it's nothing more than a strawman argument. Make up evil feminists and use that to "prove" their point. Not logical, or factual, and horribly unimaginative.

And yeah, I don't game online much because of the abuse that is just a standard part of being a female while playing a game online. When I do I make sure to not make my gender known, just easier. And unless I'm playing with friends, no voice chat, it's just not worth it.

Just look at this website, it's freaking ridiculous.

Fat, Ugly or Slutty

And that's not even mentioning that female characters in games are rarely whole people. Just objects to be used, and promote the male hero's storyline. It's getting better, but slowly, and with annoying pushback.

That was the site I was looking for when I found the study. There was also a great article I cannot find now written by a woman game developer teller her experiences at the big game developer convention. Did not sound fun for her.
 
If women are presented poorly in a game, does that make it a weaker game? That's debatable.

That's not debatable. That's scumbag neanderthal crap and it weakens everything.

Refusing to consider sociologic implications in game review is small minded. Look, I understand if all you care about is shooting and blowing things up, that's your priority. But those of us with a more developed sense of critical thinking and social awareness prefer to look beyond the sparkles and bangs that keep the (generally) bird brains entertained.

If a game is disgusting, it's disgusting. And some of us don't give a crap about the bells and whistles that supposedly make up for a more complete gaming experience.
 
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That's because she is a complete idiot and a hack. If you want her to be the spokesperson or the icon of this movement, you're gonna have a bad time.
Notice how she disabled all the comments and the ratings. That's because people can poke holes in her videos so big that an elephant can walk through no problem.

No sensible person would allow YouTube comments at all.
 
That is not what I am saying. And no. Individuals take responsability if they so choose. Men, as in the male part of the human species, as a collective, has nothing to do with this and nothing to apologise

if you can't grasp the comment and what I am saying, don't start replying to me.

They sure do if they're the ones doing these things.

If you're not, then no, you don't. But it isn't an issue of women harassing and threatening other women.

They can certainly choose not to take responsibility, but don't expect people to just shut up about it, and stop trying to excuse them. There is no excuse.
 
I honestly don't know how anyone can get upset at a call to treat people better and present a more accurate view of human demographics.
 
They are video games. They don't represent real life. And more often than not characters are not very well developed overall. The game is not a mirror of reality, it's just a game and it serves a commercial purpose. And balance is irrelevant. Just because 1 game starring a male protagonist pops up, doesn't mean a game starring a woman protagonist has to pop up. The game is just that, a game.

Making a big deal out of it just shows 2 things:
1. the feminist movement has outlived it's usefulness and is now a cultural terrorist.
2. western society has exhausted almost the major women problems and any other problems that remain can't be solved by feminism.

Also, let's discuss the game environment where most abuse happens. FPS. There is no character development in FPS's, at least not online FPS. You want to shout sexism in CS:GO because there are no female characters on terrorist or counterterrorist sides, be my guest. You want to enforce feminism in Call of Duty? There is no portrayal of anything there. the character development is about as deep as the shallow end of the pool and the multiplayer is just the same. And people get angry, people get worked up. When guys insult one another online, nothing is off the table. You'll see all sorts of insults flying around. Women don't get special treatment and aren't exempt from that.

And no, her arguments are stupid, so is her choice in video games. And it doesn't get better.

When criticizing the video game industry for its content and outlook, it is obvious that one of the first defenses lobbied is "it's just a game." Then at the same time we are supposed to take them seriously for their story lines only when it is convenient for promoting the seriousness of games.
 
If that were true, why do women pay as men?

Why do lots of men play as women?

Yes, it's true gamers can be rude to either sex, but it's obvious that female gamers find the rudeness they get as males preferable, otherwise they wouldn't do it, would they.

You're assuming they all do it because of abuse. Maybe they just enjoy it? Maybe they like the models better? There's lots of reasons why they might do it, you can't assume that because some complain about it, they all have the same problems.

If it made no difference, why hide their gender?

Ask the guys who play female characters.

These studies also show women get more harassment by far on a pure numbers scale, as well as more severe threats.

Or that women are more likely to identify non-threatening behavior as threatening, maybe. Do these studies actually see the abuse, or do they just take the words of the people involved that they were abused? There are lots of people out there, especially liberals, who are much more likely to report *FEELING* abused, even if they were not demonstrably abused.

Here's a bit of helpful advice. Just because someone feels they have been abused doesn't mean they actually have, they could just be over-sensitive.
 
I honestly don't know how anyone can get upset at a call to treat people better and present a more accurate view of human demographics.

Treating people better? Sure. That assumes that anyone is being treated badly in the first place and it's not just the perception of abuse going on. Thinking there's abuse and there actually being abuse are often two different things. Nobody has any right whatsoever not to be offended.
 
I honestly don't know how anyone can get upset at a call to treat people better and present a more accurate view of human demographics.

Demographics? These women outright call me screwed in the head and that I'm 'demeaning myself' because i write erotica, love porn, and play violent video games with characters such as that.

They don't want to represent demographics -they want to erase all parts of me and declare me defective.

Sorry - I don't support that. We were fine all those years ago when equal pay and voting rights were the issues, now they want to cull me like I'm the weak one in the herd. There's nothing wrong with me. They're deluded into imagining women like me can't enjoy any of this because they don't.

"My point is that when you’re making commentary about video game or any subject, the objective is to look at that subject as a whole. If one really wants to go down that route rather than make a simple review, then the article needs to be well written with a clear viewpoint or purpose that adequately presents both sides of the case. A little bias is fine so long as you aren’t trying to push your agenda on the viewer; they need to be allowed to come up with their own conclusions. Just like with any product, the goal when reviewing video games is to discuss the quality of the game."

An excerpt from an article about how feminists are "reviewing" games, and totally butcher the purpose of a review. This isn't unique to video games either, they inject gender issues into many subjects where there aren't any present. They defeat their own cause then wonder why many people have trouble taking them seriously. My fear is that someday people will take their "reviews" seriously and impact the success of the game.

For the full article see: Feminism and Videogames

That article made me want to scream and pull my hair out, that seriously got under my skin. That's embarrassing. What are these women playing? I have a lot of female characters in my games, and I actually LOVE how they're portrayed.

They better not actually compel gaming companies to screw with my passion . . . I'll flip out. I LIKE my female characters to be tropes: bit tits and long hair. I love that, call me ****ed up. . . Heck - some of my favorites aren't even human, they're droids and cyborgs.

This is Aunt Spiker's Unreal persona. Yep - I named my DP self after my gaming character:



That's right...love the Mistresses, love my Dungeon Keeper - plenty of women here, oooh - plenty!
 
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Treating people better? Sure. That assumes that anyone is being treated badly in the first place and it's not just the perception of abuse going on. Thinking there's abuse and there actually being abuse are often two different things. Nobody has any right whatsoever not to be offended.

I never said they did, but there is some pretty despicable crap that goes on in gaming circles. I've known plenty of women who hide their gender in online games and plenty who are harassed. Nobody has the right not to be offended, but nobody should be abused and harassed just for entering a public space.

Remember that Aris Bakhtanians guy? The one who said that sexual harassment, ugly and demeaning sexual harassment, is an inherent part of gaming culture, specifically fighting games. That the games aren't really worth playing without really ugly misogyny. That's pretty skewed.

Demographics? These women outright call me screwed in the head and that I'm 'demeaning myself' because i write erotica, love porn, and play violent video games with characters such as that.

I meant demographics like how few female characters there are, and how few female protagonists specifically.
 
I never said they did, but there is some pretty despicable crap that goes on in gaming circles. I've known plenty of women who hide their gender in online games and plenty who are harassed. Nobody has the right not to be offended, but nobody should be abused and harassed just for entering a public space.

And yet people are all the time. No said life would be filled with nice people where everyone was nice to you at all times. People are assholes and many of them are even worse when they think no one knows who they are.

Remember that Aris Bakhtanians guy? The one who said that sexual harassment, ugly and demeaning sexual harassment, is an inherent part of gaming culture, specifically fighting games. That the games aren't really worth playing without really ugly misogyny. That's pretty skewed.

Well that is his opinion. What of it?
 
That's not debatable. That's scumbag neanderthal crap and it weakens everything.

Refusing to consider sociologic implications in game review is small minded. Look, I understand if all you care about is shooting and blowing things up, that's your priority. But those of us with a more developed sense of critical thinking and social awareness prefer to look beyond the sparkles and bangs that keep the (generally) bird brains entertained.

If a game is disgusting, it's disgusting. And some of us don't give a crap about the bells and whistles that supposedly make up for a more complete gaming experience.

It has nothing to do with refusing to consider sociological implications in game review; it's knowing when and how to address such implications. Address the issue as a whole, not in segmented parts that won't get anything done. We could pick apart why DOA is a disgusting game and how it has made a franchise out of objectifying women but do you do that a single game review? No. In fact they're making their 2nd remake of their current game, so we've failed so far in how we addressed this problem. You do it in a thought out intelligent fashion akin to commentaries by Anita Sarkessian (I'll reference her a lot, because I love her work). Look, I understand all you seem to care about is arguing without trying to understand my point, that's your priority. So I'll stop you right here.

If you want an example of how gender is applied to these talks effectively check out gamingangels or youtube Tropes vs Women. You resort to name calling, but I'm giving examples of women and a feminist establishing a paradigm for effective ways to engage their audience and talk about gender issues.
 
It has nothing to do with refusing to consider sociological implications in game review; it's knowing when and how to address such implications.

Who put you in charge? What qualifications do you have beside being a gamer and ignorant regarding the issue?
 
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Who put you in charge? What qualifications do you have beside being a gamer and ignorant regarding the issue?

In charge? Is anyone? I see a problem and support those who productively tackle the issue. Ignorant? Back to baseless name calling I see. I'd recommend not wasting your or my time any longer with your garbage. You came here with your own agenda, and I have no intention to entertain you any longer; sorry.
 
In charge? Is anyone?

I seems you'd like to dictate what does and does not qualify for and in game reviews.

Ignorant?

This is ignorant:

If women are presented poorly in a game, does that make it a weaker game? That's debatable.

It's not debatable. You'd just like to think such considerations can be overlooked if the game is to your liking.
 
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This blogger is absolutely clueless and a prime example why the industry caters toward his kind.

Actually, it does, when you consider that a lot of female gamers disguise their gender because they know that if they were didn't, they would relentlessly harassed.

The joke about "no women in MMORPG's" is actually a rather sad one, because it's not that they aren't there. They just have no choice but to hide if they want to just enjoy the game.

Frankly, so what?

I hate to play the ogre here, but the simple fact of the matter is that video games are the way they are for a reason. Sex sells, and men are the medium's primary consumers. They always have been.

At the end of the day, complaining about the fact that the video game industry is dominated by masculine memes and caters to male interests makes about as much sense as complaining about the fact that the pornographic industry does the same. It's a self-evident truth, and one that isn't going to change simply because bleeding hearts might happen to dislike it.

Women traditionally haven't cared about video games one way or the other. Even today, the ones who are interested in the medium obviously are not so turned off by the masculine leanings of the art form as to stop buying the products developers are selling.

From an economic perspective, there simply isn't any incentive whatsoever for things to change.

Trying to effectively "shame" industry leaders into taking a more "P.C." approach to gaming with politicized smear campaigns like those mentioned in the OP isn't going to make a single bit of difference to this fact. The political will necessary to enforce such a change plainly doesn't exist in the public consciousness, which means that there isn't any kind of profit margin large enough to justify shifting products in more "feminist friendly" directions.

The whole thing frankly comes off as being little more than a shrill, attention whoring attempt at political coercion and blackmail without anything whatsoever to back it up. Most gamers rightly look down on it with contempt as such.

The long and short of the issue here is that the gender dynamics of the industry will ultimately change if, and only if, female gamers begin to take a more active role in making their presence felt in the market, and not a moment before.

If female gamers want to see more female oriented video games, they need to start making, and buying, such games themselves; not expect men to do so for them simply because "political correctness" demands it.

If that were true, why do women pay as men?

Cowardice? A natural disinclination towards confrontation in comparison to males? :shrug:

I spent all eight years of the Bush Administration with "President Bush" as my username on both StarCraft Battlenet and Xbox live.

Sufficient to say, a certain degree of "harassment" did absolutely nothing to phase me one way or the other. lol
 
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I hate to play the ogre here, but the simple fact of the matter is that video games are the way they are for a reason. Sex sells, and men are the medium's primary consumers. They always have been.

At the end of the day, complaining about the fact that the video game industry is dominated by masculine memes and caters to male interests makes about as much sense as complaining about the fact that the pornographic industry does the same. It's a self-evident truth, and one that isn't going to change simply because bleeding hearts might happen to dislike it.

To me it's like critiquing Michael Bay for all of the above reasons, while praising Al Hitchcock, Stanley Kubrick, and John Ford.
 
I seems you'd like to dictate what does and does not qualify for and in game reviews.



This is ignorant:



It's not debatable. You'd just like to think such considerations can be overlooked if the game is to your liking.

I'll do you a solid and humor you one last time. You'll notice after that statement I make a distinction right? Specifically I mention Dead or Alive. That game objectifies women, period. Their franchise is centered on it and is weaker as a result. Let's compare this to say Princess Peach from the Mario series. She gets kidnapped repeatedly, thus making her look weak. Is that poor representation? Sure, you can't debate that. Is she objectified? Is it disgusting? Is the game weaker? To use your words: Is the game disgusting because an Italian plumber has to rescue a Princess who get's kidnapped by a giant fire breathing, spiky shelled turtle? Go out and ask people that question. Everyone will agree about Dead or Alive. Mario, isn't as easy. That's what I meant by debatable.

Equate the two, and show me how they are both disgusting and don't deserve to see the light of day. It's easy to see how they both have women poorly represented but both examples are vastly different.
 
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