Feminism: What's the deal?

[FreshlyMinted]

So a lot of the time, I think I am a feminist, but then some feminist will say something like "women would be better off and happier without men controlling their lives" and I take so many disagreements to that that I'm not sure anymore

First of all, plenty of women control my life. Teachers, parents, bosses, girlfriend and even in the cases that they've been abusive or what have you, I haven't resented them for being women.

Secondly, I think lots of women want someone else in charge; they enjoy the non-pressure and there times when I wish that roles were reversed; that it wasn't implied that I should be the one in charge in a relationship.

Thirdly, there are plenty of women that absolutely LOVE being degraded. Some I say because they implicitly do as proven by the fact that they continue to put themselves in situations, some I say because it involves more... intimate situations and they just hate being in control and love being... used...

So I probably made some enemies here so I'd just like to be clear that I'm all for equality politically, occupationally, to a point interpersonally, but I just don't think most WOMEN are all for that. Are these people that make blanket statements just kinda radical? Or is that a majority viewpoint?

 

[rivrrat]

I would say that ALL women are for equality as far as the law and government are concerned. That's not to say it dictates how they live their personal life. I've never met a sub that thought all women should be subs, quite the contrary. Just because a woman may want a man in charge, or taking care of her, doesn't mean she's against government and legal equality.

It's all about choice, and without equality, choices are limited. But, legal equality has been achieved.

 

[FreshlyMinted]

I would say that ALL women are for equality as far as the law and government are concerned. That's not to say it dictates how they live their personal life. I've never met a sub that thought all women should be subs, quite the contrary. Just because a woman may want a man in charge, or taking care of her, doesn't mean she's against government and legal equality.

It's all about choice, and without equality, choices are limited. But, legal equality has been achieved.

That's pretty much what I hoped the answer would be. Are there radicals out there that do feel global interpersonal equality to be a goal? Because I swear I've heard that before.

 

[Tsunami]

If you are asking whether females in general are naturally more submissive than males I would have to say yes. I would also say that women in general feel more comfortable about being taken care of than men do, for lack of a better term. That could be society based rather than genetic. But women deserve the equal protection and freedoms that men get, even if they don't all want to use it.

I would say that ALL women are for equality as far as the law and government are concerned. That's not to say it dictates how they live their personal life. I've never met a sub that thought all women should be subs, quite the contrary. Just because a woman may want a man in charge, or taking care of her, doesn't mean she's against government and legal equality.

It's all about choice, and without equality, choices are limited. But, legal equality has been achieved.

I wouldn't go quite that far. Do you want to see females register for the military draft? I think there are a few laws that protect women that most people still favor.

 

[FreshlyMinted]

I wouldn't go quite that far. Do you want to see females register for the military draft? I think there are a few laws that protect women that most people still favor.

Okay, now here is where I take issue. You cannot have equality of the things you like without the equality of the things you don't like. I'm sorry.

If women are to get equality in occupation and equality in politics then they MUST have equality in all things legal, to do otherwise is childish, hypocritical in the sense of equality, and weak.

 

[rivrrat]

If you are asking whether females in general are naturally more submissive than males I would have to say yes. I would also say that women in general feel more comfortable about being taken care of than men do, for lack of a better term. That could be society based rather than genetic. But women deserve the equal protection and freedoms that men get, even if they don't all want to use it.


I wouldn't go quite that far. Do you want to see females register for the military draft?

Yes. The military is really the only place where women are treated unequally and unfairly.

 

[Tsunami]

Okay, now here is where I take issue. You cannot have equality of the things you like without the equality of the things you don't like. I'm sorry.

If women are to get equality in occupation and equality in politics then they MUST have equality in all things legal, to do otherwise is childish, hypocritical in the sense of equality, and weak.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but it is a very feminist position. Would this translate to equal physical fitness standards in schools? Should the government be allowed to impose separate grooming standards or school uniforms for male and female students? Should prisons or bathrooms be segregated by gender? Personally I don't think the government should even know a person's sex, but I don't think society is ready for these changes quite yet.

 

[FreshlyMinted]

I'm not saying you are wrong, but it is a very feminist position. Would this translate to equal physical fitness standards in schools? Should the government be allowed to impose separate grooming standards or school uniforms for male and female students? Should prisons or bathrooms be segregated by gender? Personally I don't think the government should even know a person's sex, but I don't think society is ready for these changes quite yet.

I would argue that there are certain biological differences and chosen cultural differences that allow for discrimination of that nature.

Army drafting, however is an ever-present risk and I am a firm believer in the idea that the greater the risk the greater the rewards. Therefore as long as women are not taking the risk of potentially being in the draft and men are, I believe that it is right thinking that women should not have as great of a reward (through respect and higher wages) and as the risk of draft fluctuates, I would expect to see reward discrepancies fluctuate alongside.

This basically comes about because I would be so ****ed off if I got drafted along with all men my own age and women didn't and yet still whined about equality. So I admit it is an emotionally clouded rationale

 

[Tsunami]

I would argue that there are certain biological differences and chosen cultural differences that allow for discrimination of that nature.

Well aren't there both biological and cultural reasons behind the restrictions on women in the military? I don't see why you would draw the line at one and not the other.

 

[FreshlyMinted]

Well aren't there both biological and cultural reasons behind the restrictions on women in the military? I don't see why you would draw the line at one and not the other.

Because some are more important than others and for different reasons. Women being part of the draft should be a necessary contingent on them achieving occupational and political equality, or are you saying they wouldn't make as good soldiers?

Draft need not be infantry by the way, the army can play to gender-based strengths and weaknesses as need be.

Therefore, the physical differences between men and women are not really a problem when it comes to joining the army. However, peoples' insecurity and shame at using the same restroom as a different gender is an issue as well as different standards of health. I certainly wouldn't want/don't like all women thinking that they need to be twigs to be healthy and beautiful.

 

[molten_dragon]

The vast majority of the women I've met who have called themselves feminists have defined equality as having all the benefits of being a man and none of the drawbacks.

Personally, I look forward greatly to the day when there is true equality between men and women in the eyes of the law.

 

[mike2810]

The vast majority of the women I've met who have called themselves feminists have defined equality as having all the benefits of being a man and none of the drawbacks.

Personally, I look forward greatly to the day when there is true equality between men and women in the eyes of the law.

I think I agree with you as long as the "eyes of the law" equates to same standards for the job regardless of the persons gender or race.

 

[mikhail]

To me it means stopping barriers in front of women in jobs etc.Its difficult to see in western society so much, but in some countries the inequality is obvious.

 

[Goshin]

So a lot of the time, I think I am a feminist, but then some feminist will say something like "women would be better off and happier without men controlling their lives" and I take so many disagreements to that that I'm not sure anymore

First of all, plenty of women control my life. Teachers, parents, bosses, girlfriend and even in the cases that they've been abusive or what have you, I haven't resented them for being women.

Secondly, I think lots of women want someone else in charge; they enjoy the non-pressure and there times when I wish that roles were reversed; that it wasn't implied that I should be the one in charge in a relationship.

Thirdly, there are plenty of women that absolutely LOVE being degraded. Some I say because they implicitly do as proven by the fact that they continue to put themselves in situations, some I say because it involves more... intimate situations and they just hate being in control and love being... used...

So I probably made some enemies here so I'd just like to be clear that I'm all for equality politically, occupationally, to a point interpersonally, but I just don't think most WOMEN are all for that. Are these people that make blanket statements just kinda radical? Or is that a majority viewpoint?

You've run headlong into the difference between a rational feminist, who simply wants to be treated equally under the law and respected as a responsible adult...

VS...

A feminazi, a radical feminist, typically a man-hater who thinks all things wrong with the world can be laid on the head of the male, and that if only females ran everything and men were kept locked up on stud ranches, the world would be just peachy. :mrgreen:

 

[Tsunami]

A feminazi, a radical feminist, typically a man-hater who thinks all things wrong with the world can be laid on the head of the male, and that if only females ran everything and men were kept locked up on stud ranches, the world would be just peachy. :mrgreen:

I agree with this.

 

[Catz Part Deux]

Do you want to see females register for the military draft? I think there are a few laws that protect women that most people still favor.

I have zero problems with abolishing those laws.

 

[liblady]

The vast majority of the women I've met who have called themselves feminists have defined equality as having all the benefits of being a man and none of the drawbacks.

Personally, I look forward greatly to the day when there is true equality between men and women in the eyes of the law.

what? that's not been my experience. i do believe if a draft is initiated, women should be drafted.

 

[American]

Women should be drafted and turned into grunts like everyone else. If they die so be it. You want equality, you get equality.

 

[Catz Part Deux]

Women should be drafted and turned into grunts like everyone else. If they die so be it. You want equality, you get equality.

You sound like you're making a threat here, when all of the women on the thread said they welcomed this move.

Silly boy.

 

[JustineCredible]

If you are asking whether females in general are naturally more submissive than males I would have to say yes. I would also say that women in general feel more comfortable about being taken care of than men do, for lack of a better term. That could be society based rather than genetic. But women deserve the equal protection and freedoms that men get, even if they don't all want to use it.


I wouldn't go quite that far. Do you want to see females register for the military draft? I think there are a few laws that protect women that most people still favor.

Honestly, as an Ex-Military member...I have never fully accepted the whole "men only" selective service registration thing. I understand it, but I don't like it. I feel young women SHOULD be included in the selective service registration. But then again, that is my personal bias seeing as I am the youngest of my generation of kids in my family and the only female...and the ONLY one to have enlisted and served in the military.
I'm just sayin'

I agree that what it is that women want is equal access to choice. Whether or not they choose to utilize that choice, is a personal decision.
I don't agree that most women naturally feel subservient to men. I do believe that's cultural, even familial, conditioning for the most part.
I wasn't raised to be subservient to men in general by my family. I was raised, and even by the other men in my family, to be an equal. It was society who served up the whole idea that I was supposed to be submissive to men. That really came as a huge internal conflict for me. I had a husband who routinely got extremely angry when I didn't ask for his permission to do just about anything! (Granted, I wouldn't have married him had I known he would behave this way once we were married.)
Two years down the line, my parents came for a visit and my mother and I took a day to do some sight seeing. She asked me why I kept asking my husband if this or that was "ok"? I made some excuse that I just wanted to keep the peace, or something very similar, but it did get me thinking. Why was I allowing him to dominate my every move?
When I stopped walking on eggshells is when my marriage fell apart. When I became the one to start asking questions of him, he became defensive and actually accused me of cheating on him! Which of course only piqued my interest as to why he would say something like that. Only to find out he was the one who was cheating...and not just with one...but THREE other women!!
Yeah, that was the end of the marriage for me.

 

[Catz Part Deux]

When I stopped walking on eggshells is when my marriage fell apart. When I became the one to start asking questions of him, he became defensive and actually accused me of cheating on him! Which of course only piqued my interest as to why he would say something like that. Only to find out he was the one who was cheating...and not just with one...but THREE other women!!
Yeah, that was the end of the marriage for me.

Ummmm...wow. It's like we've lived the same life.

 

[JustineCredible]

Ummmm...wow. It's like we've lived the same life.

But, just because I hate HIM does not in any way mean I hate all men. I love the men in my life, I just don't want to sleep with them. (at the moment...that's considering I'm already in a monogamous relationship...) :mrgreen:

 

[Tsunami]

But, just because I hate HIM does not in any way mean I hate all men. I love the men in my life, I just don't want to sleep with them. (at the moment...that's considering I'm already in a monogamous relationship...) :mrgreen:

Men are scum.

 

[liblady]

Women should be drafted and turned into grunts like everyone else. If they die so be it. You want equality, you get equality.

are you upset that i think women should be drafted as well?

 

[JustineCredible]

Men are scum.

No...men are pigs...but that's ok, I accept that of them. I still love the men in my life. My father, my brother, my Uncle, my cousins...all men and all wonderful people. They did a lot as far as helping me raise my son in conjunction with my partner. There were many a time that as women, we were ill equipped to deal with certain issues that came up, and I'm not talking about the birds and the bees here.