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Feingold/Censure thread(after merges)

easyt65

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That loud <BANG> you heard yesterday was Feingold shooting himself in the foot, thereby ending any chance he had at winning the Dem Nomination for President in 2008!

Feingold decided it was a good idea to introduce 'Censure' legislation....His fellow Democrats could not back-pedal away from him fast enough and 'averted a debate and vote' that they knew the American people would drill them on! Feingold wants to put the cart before the horse, announce bush is guilty of something before any legal decision is made agreeing with him! Bush's wiretap program is (currently) legal, and Feingold wants to Censure a President for a legal program whose purpose is to protect America fom terrorists, more interested in going after the Pres. than the individual who compromised the secret program by leaking it. Yeah, trying to punish a Presidet for something legal is always a bright move!

The Democrats knew this move would be looked upon, especially in a time of war as sour-grapes pauback for Clinton, especially after feingold even brought up/referenced Clinton by saying what Bush is doing (a currently legal program) is worse than Clinton's committing a Felony of perjury before a Federal Grand Jury! Man, if that don't sound like sour-grapes payback for the Clinton Impeachment, I don't know what does...and it obviously sounded that way to the Dems as well. Feingold got VERY little support, and his legislation died right there on the Senate floor, along with his hopes of winning his party's nomination!

<<<<<<<STORY>>>>>>>>>

Democrats distanced themselves Monday from Wisconsin Sen. Russell Feingold's effort to censure President Bush over domestic spying, preventing a floor vote that could alienate swing voters.

A day of tough, election-year talk between Feingold and Vice President Dick Cheney ended with Senate leaders sending the matter to the Judiciary Committee.

"I look forward to a full hearing, debate and vote in committee on this important matter," Feingold said in a statement late Monday. "If the Committee fails to consider the resolution expeditiously, I will ask that there be a vote in the full Senate."

Republicans dared Democrats to vote for the proposal.

"Some Democrats in Congress have decided the president is the enemy," Vice President Dick Cheney told a Republican audience in Feingold's home state.
Feingold, a potential presidential candidate, said on the Senate floor, "The president has violated the law and Congress must respond."

"A formal censure by Congress is an appropriate and responsible first step to assure the public that when the president thinks he can violate the law without consequences, Congress has the will to hold him accountable," Feingold said.

Even as he spoke, Democratic leaders held off the immediate vote that Majority Leader Bill Frist requested. Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., said he didn't know if there ever would be one. Durbin said that Feingold had sought to use the censure resolution "as a catalyst" for thorough hearings and investigations.

The referral averted a debate and a vote that Democrats privately worried would alienate voters who could decide close elections.

In 1999, a censure resolution failed against President Clinton after he was acquitted by the Senate on House impeachment charges that he committed perjury and obstructed justice in the Monica Lewinsky affair.

"This is clearly more serious than what President Clinton was accused of doing," Feingold reporters after his floor speech.
- SOUR GRAPES, Partisal Political Attack, Clinton Impeachment Vendetta! The Democrats knew this would echo through voters' minds!

:sinking:
 

tecoyah

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Re: Feingold Abandoned by Dems!

Just a quick note....I believe Clinton Lied.....After....he was impeached.

An impeachment is an inverstgation....a censure isn't even that. Still, this guy is a Moron for even trying.
 

easyt65

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Re: Feingold Abandoned by Dems!

tecoyah said:
Just a quick note....I believe Clinton Lied.....After....he was impeached.

An impeachment is an inverstgation....a censure isn't even that. Still, this guy is a Moron for even trying.

Uh - NO! lied under oath before being Impeached! Don't even go there AGAIN with the excuses! THIS is what I am talking about...Dems STILL can't bring themselves to admit that Clinton did trul y deserve to be Impeached and keep trying to use justifications to continue their argument that it was all an injustice! Just stop.......

As I said, the dems, especially when he mentioned Clinton, knew the people would see this for what it is - sour-grapes Clinton pay-back, and they turned their backs on him!
 

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Re: Feingold Abandoned by Dems!

Hey, mind posting some linkage for the initial post? ;)

Thanks!
 

tecoyah

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Re: Feingold Abandoned by Dems!

easyt65 said:
Uh - NO! lied under oath before being Impeached! Don't even go there AGAIN with the excuses! THIS is what I am talking about...Dems STILL can't bring themselves to admit that Clinton did trul y deserve to be Impeached and keep trying to use justifications to continue their argument that it was all an injustice! Just stop.......

As I said, the dems, especially when he mentioned Clinton, knew the people would see this for what it is - sour-grapes Clinton pay-back, and they turned their backs on him!

I stand corrected....But please do not call me a Democrat, There is no need to be insulting.

"In his conduct while President of the United States, William Jefferson Clinton, in violation of his constitutional oath faithfully to execute the office of President of the United States and, to the best of his ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States, and in violation of his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed, has willfully corrupted and manipulated the judicial process of the United States for his personal gain and exoneration, impeding the administra tion of justice, in that:

On August 17, 1998, William Jefferson Clinton swore to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth before a Federal grand jury of the United States. Contrary to that oath, William Jefferson Clinton willfully provided perjurious, false and misleading testimony to the grand jury concerning one or more of the following: (1) the nature and details of his relationship with a subordinate Government employee; (2) prior perjurious, false and misleading testimony he gave in a Federal civil rights action brought against him; (3) prior false and misleading statements he allowed his attorney to make to a Federal judge in that civil rights action; and (4) his corrupt efforts to influence the testimony of witnesses and to impede the discovery of evidence in that civil rights action.

In doing this, William Jefferson Clinton has undermined the integrity of his office, has brought disrepute on the Presidency, has betrayed his trust as President, and has acted in a manner subversive of the rule of law and justice, to the manifest injury of the people of the United States.

Wherefore, William Jefferson Clinton, by such conduct, warrants impeachment and trial, and removal from office and disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust or profit under the United States.
"


Now....About Bush...heh
 

easyt65

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Re: Feingold Abandoned by Dems!

tecoyah said:
I stand corrected....But please do not call me a Democrat, There is no need to be insulting.
I stand corrected, and I humbly apologize.



tecoyah said:
Now....About Bush...heh
When Bush is convicted of a crime, I will gladly entertain all discussion!
 

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Re: Feingold Abandoned by Dems!

Its been said before but its apropos: "No one died when Clinton lied".

I was not a huge Bill Clinton fan, however, he did win me over during his Presidency. I felt completely let down by the whole Lewinsky affair. His impeachment was earned and although I have respect for what he did in office, I don't respect him personally.

That said. Bush has earned impeachment and censure as well. This is a man who has put our brave men and women in harms way for NOTHING. Personally, I don't think that Bush purposefully mislead, but the men he listens to did. There is ample evidence dating back to Vietnam that Rumsfield, Cheney et al have had this imperialistic agenda and have used anything they can to justify their agenda. Bush is just a pawn in their game. In many ways he was the perfect candidate for them, low-level intelligence with a certain amount of charm that could appeal to mid-America.
That said....Bush deserves Censure because he is ultimately the one who made the decisions that have put us in this fiasco.

As for Feingold, I admire his guts. Too many other people don't have the backbone to stand for anything. The reality is, the censure won't happen because Republicans will stand by Bush for fear of looking weak and the Democrats will stand by him for fear of alientating moderates.

That sad thing about it is this "Code of Silence" is what plagues so much of attempts at political progress. It reminds me of the LAPD here in Southern Cal. The majority of the cops are good hard-working people, but they will stand behind the bad cops under all circumstances. In my job I have spoken to many of them who I am friendly with "off the record" and they all say essentially the same thing, they view all cops as "family" as their "brothers", they are in the "front line" together, for better or worse and they refuse to say anything negative about them or expose their misconduct. The same is true in Congress and on this board. The Bush apologists by and large are one-issue voters who will overlook everything else Bush does in order to accomplish their agenda. They will sacrifice the country and our hard-fought rights in order to pursue the agenda of the radical right.

Its time to end the code of silence and expose this man for the failure that he is. Only then can we move forward as a country. Unfortunately, it won't happen for all the stated reasons.
 

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Re: Feingold Abandoned by Dems!

I believe that the issue at hand deserves debate in Washington as to achieve some clarification as to what the oval office can and cannot do for future reference. Maybe Feingold is being extreme to push that debate? Or maybe he is just jockeying for position and political grandstanding. At this point in the game "censure" is a little extreme by anyones standards. It translates, in my book, that Feingold has no problem going off "half-cocked." NOT a good trait for a president. Take Bush for example.

Feingold had so much promise. He would buck a democrat just as fast as he would buck a republican when it came to standing his ground and doing what's right. He took a hard stand on campaign finance reform. You KNOW they had to despise him for that. That's a politician's bread and butter. He was the common man's man. But alas, it looks like he has been infected with Washintonitis. Our guppy from Wisconsin has been devoured by the pool of sharks he chose to swim amongst.

I am sorely dissappointed. I expect his support to fall out from under much like what is currently happening to the president. Both of them can clear out a room, these days, faster than a fart in an elevator (That's a "lift" for all of out UK friends here.):rofl

I always dreamed about a McCain/Feingold ticket to reunite the country and do away with the democrat/republican divide. Imagine a ticket with a dem AND a repub running TOGETHER. Ahhh.....to dream.:roll:
 

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Re: Feingold Abandoned by Dems!

disneydude said:
That said. Bush has earned impeachment and censure as well. This is a man who has put our brave men and women in harms way for NOTHING.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but How can you say bush deserves Censure and Impeachment? Name 1 law he has broken, 1 law he has been convicted of, as was Clinton which resulted in HIS Impeachment. You can't because there has not been 1 case!

Speaking of people dying for nothing:

- Able Danger briefed him on Bin Laden and the dangers of Al Qaeda - what did he do about it? He ignored it, and he later sent Sandy 'Burgaler' to steal the classified documents that proved he lied about NOT being briefed by them!

- Tell me what Clinton did after U.S.Troops died atthe hands of Al Qaeda in the Kobar Tower bombings! Nothing!

- Tell me what Clinton did after U.S. Troops died at the hands of Al Qaeda in the U.S. S. Cole attack! Nothing!

- Tell me what Clinton did to discourage the rise of Bin Laden/Al Qaeda and to stop them from preying on our people around the world after 2 African Embassy bombings killed hundreds! NOTHING!

The Fact is Al Qaeda went un-checked, growing bolder by the inability of a scandal-plagued President to act!

In FACT, the only thing Clinton did to affect our National Security was to commit treason by selling the Chinese missile technology to finally be able to reach the U.S. with their nukes - the money into his account was traced directly back to the Chinese military?

WTF won you over during his Presidency? Was it the betrayal of Americans? Was it his act of stripping an American of her constitutional Rights, which he swwore an oath to defend and protect? Was it the treason with China? Was it his wife crosing police tape to steal folders and lie about not knowing of their existence, only for the files to be found in their living quarters with her finger prints all over them? Was it his collection of illegal FBI files he had gathered to use on his GOP and other enemies? Yes, he was charismatic, could play the hornon late night talk shows, sexually harrassed women, cheated on his wife, lied to his country, betrayed his country, betrayed the troops, left America unprotected and undefended, and left the door wide open for 9-11! WTF do Democrats like you see in this guy that impressed you so much that he won you over, even after ALL THIS? I would really like to know!

disneydude said:
As for Feingold, I admire his guts. Too many other people don't have the backbone to stand for anything.
Feingold deserves no admiration or respect! Mush like Kerry threw the country under the bus by committing his own perjuries before congress and meeting enemy leaders in a foreign country to discuss the surrender of his own nation - all to jumpstart his own political career, Feingold tried to throw Bush under the bus during a war by declaring the Bush deserves to be censured for a currently LEGAL program. The reason his own colleagues deserted him is because he referenced the Clinton Impeachment, a clear example of his motive - sour-grapes revenge for Clinton's impeachment. Instead of the merit of his case alone, he brought up Clinton, saying that Bush's legal program was worse than Clinton's convictions, his betraying his oath of office to protect and defend the very Constitutional Rights that he tried to deprive an American citizen of in order to save his own @$$! At least Bush's action was in a LEGAL attempt to protect the American people while Clinton's was an ILLEGAL attempt to deprive/hurt Americans!

Feingold deserves no admiration, and it is not just ME saying it! His own colleagues turned their backs on him because they know they don't have a leg to stand on currently and his own words would make people think this was just a case of 'payback', trying to Censure a President for a currently LEGAL program!

Where are the REAL men of integrity and courage in the Democratic party? When the issue of Impeachment of Clinton came up, these men were faced with the decision to Impeach a President who had committed numerous felonies (perjury, witness tampering, etc...), had betrayed his oath, betryaed the people's trust, and more. They were faced witht the decision to do what was right or to go the Party-1st-and-above-ALL-else route. They divided along party ines instead of the lines of what was right and wrong!

Where were the real courageous Democrats like Feingold when their colleagues were committing treason, when Durbin was calling our troops Nazis, Kerry was calling our troops Terrorists, and Dean was declaring we could not win the war and should pull out. These self-professed Dem Leaders were attacking this nation's resolve and our troops morale! As I recall, the lines formed along party lines again in defense of these men!

And don't call me a Clinton-hater! I don't care if if was Bush, Reagan, or my own father -- if any - ANY - man in the office of the President of the U.S. had done what he had done and I was sitting there with a vote to cast, my vote would have been to Impeach him. With the vote to impeach, those who voted 'yeah' made the statement that such conduct is not fitting for the Leader of the U.S. For all those democrats - EVERYONE - who voted 'nay', they said Party loyalty is more important that morality, character, law, and what is right or wrong - this type person SHOULD be here, and used every excuse to justify their vote!

I am an American, not a Democrat or Republican. I listen to both and vote what's best! That for a while has been the Republicans. Not to say they are always right, because they are not - I disagree with a good bit of what they say/do.....but they aren't as 'lost' as the Democrats right now!
 

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Re: Feingold Abandoned by Dems!

disneydude said:
Its been said before but its apropos: "No one died when Clinton lied".
The inherent problem in drawing moral equivalence this way is that you necessarily concede the point.

disneydude said:
This is a man who has put our brave men and women in harms way for NOTHING.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, no matter how extreme. Unfortunately, the censure under discussion revolves around a specific claim of impropriety. It is not an indictment of the war in Iraq, which was authorized by the vast majority of both houses as demonstrated by this document.
 

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Re: Feingold Abandoned by Dems!

As I said in another thread this is all about political grandstanding....Feingold is running for prez in 2008...He is pandering the the left wing base of the democratic party and the gutless dems have hung him out to dry.........
 

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Navy Pride said:
As I said in another thread this is all about political grandstanding....Feingold is running for prez in 2008...He is pandering the the left wing base of the democratic party and the gutless dems have hung him out to dry.........


"Gutless dems"?

LOL... so, I assume with that description that you wholeheartedly support Feingold and that you think the dems are despicable for showing almost no support?

LOL... and I love it! :cool:
 

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KidRocks said:
I assume with that description that you wholeheartedly support Feingold and that you think the dems are despicable for showing almost no support?
That would not be an assumption supported by the context of the quote. One must necessarily assume the Dems are gutless in comparison to Feingold whom they abandoned, while no judgment as to the propriety of the bill was offered by the author in this citation.

Since the vast majority of such judgements on the part of your opponent have been opposed to the bill, I'm unclear how you could suggest he would support Feingold, assuming you've read any of the posts.

The only error I could possibly assign to your opponent is the presumption that Feingold himself had any significant level of courage greater than his associates, considering he fled the chamber immediately after offering the bill.
 
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Carl said:
That would not be an assumption supported by the context of the quote. One must necessarily assume the Dems are gutless in comparison to Feingold whom they abandoned, while no judgment as to the propriety of the bill was offered by the author in this citation.

Since the vast majority of such judgements on the part of your opponent have been opposed to the bill, I'm unclear how you could suggest he would support Feingold, assuming you've read any of the posts.

The only error I could possibly assign to your opponent is the presumption that Feingold himself had any significant level of courage greater than his associates, considering he fled the chamber immediately after offering the bill.

Well then, I would think NP would be praising the "gutless dems" instead of berating them, don't you agree? Or is NP just a partsian-hack who attacks democrats for refusing to censure President Bush?

So, I assume that you believe Feingold to be "brave" and courageous and that you admire him for taking the stand (alone) that Bush should be censured?
 

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Re: Feingold Abandoned by Dems!

KidRocks said:
Well then, I would think NP would be praising the "gutless dems" instead of berating them, don't you agree? Or is NP just a partsian-hack who attacks democrats for refusing to censure President Bush?
Fallacy of False Dilemma

None of the above. Leaving aside for the moment that this is a thread about Feingold and the Democrats, not about any particular forum contributor here.
 

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Re: Feingold Abandoned by Dems!

KidRocks said:
"Gutless dems"?

LOL... so, I assume with that description that you wholeheartedly support Feingold and that you think the dems are despicable for showing almost no support?

LOL... and I love it! :cool:
Make no mistake about it 90 percent of the dems in the Senate would love to see Bush censured but they don't have the guts to say so publicly.........They are all hypocrites........
 

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KidRocks said:
Well then, I would think NP would be praising the "gutless dems" instead of berating them, don't you agree? Or is NP just a partsian-hack who attacks democrats for refusing to censure President Bush?

So, I assume that you believe Feingold to be "brave" and courageous and that you admire him for taking the stand (alone) that Bush should be censured?
I don't think I would say that Feingold is politically grandstanding if I admired him.......I do give him credit though he is the only dem that has the guts to say how he feels on the issue...........
 

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Navy Pride said:
I don't think I would say that Feingold is politically grandstanding if I admired him.......I do give him credit though he is the only dem that has the guts to say how he feels on the issue...........
But the guy is saying we should Censure a President for running a (currently) LEGAL program designed to safeguard America!:shock:

Kudos for voicing your opinion, dude - too bad you're INSANE! :doh
 
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Re: Feingold Abandoned by Dems!

>.That loud <BANG> you heard yesterday was Feingold shooting himself in the foot, thereby ending any chance he had at winning the Dem Nomination for President in 2008!

You said it all, he just disqualified himself from every being seriously considered to be commander in chief.
 

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disneydude said:
Its been said before but its apropos: "No one died when Clinton lied".
Oh spare us, what if he had used his power to tap into bank records and defraud depositors. No one would have died, but surely he would have been kicked out of office. But the fact is people did die because of Clintons INACTION.

I was not a huge Bill Clinton fan, however, he did win me over during his Presidency. I felt completely let down by the whole Lewinsky affair. His impeachment was earned and although I have respect for what he did in office, I don't respect him personally.
A fair statement and I respect you for that one.

That said. Bush has earned impeachment and censure as well.
No he doesn't. We don't impeach Presidents of policy differences and everything you mention is a matter of policy, not high crimes and misdameanors.

As for Feingold, I admire his guts.
That's not guts, it's a calculated political move and an outrageous one at that in a time of war.

Too many other people don't have the backbone to stand for anything.
He can show his backbone by running for the office and taking his case to the American People, not by playing his bogus political games.

The reality is, the censure won't happen because Republicans will stand by Bush for fear of looking weak and the Democrats will stand by him for fear of alientating moderates.
It won't happen because it is not constitutional an he knows it and the rest of the Senate knows it.
That sad thing about it is this "Code of Silence" is what plagues so much of attempts at political progress.
:rofl yeah like the Democrats have been silent.

The Bush apologists by and large are one-issue voters who will overlook everything else Bush does in order to accomplish their agenda.
No more or less than the Democrat appoligist. But I do note Republicans speak about thier positions on matters, they offer plans and solutions while Democrats speak with the same old tired rhetoric you are typing out here.

They will sacrifice the country and our hard-fought rights in order to pursue the agenda of the radical right.
Blah blah blah blah blah. Exactly what I'm talking about. If the Dems want to win then they need to stop with the bogus whining and give people something to vote for them for.

Its time to end the code of silence and expose this man for the failure that he is. Only then can we move forward as a country. Unfortunately, it won't happen for all the stated reasons.
Like the media isn't trying to undermine him everyday. If the Dems want to "move the country" they better be able to explain specifically what direction and where, so far they can't or won't do so.
 

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Re: Feingold Abandoned by Dems!

Stinger said:
>.That loud <BANG> you heard yesterday was Feingold shooting himself in the foot, thereby ending any chance he had at winning the Dem Nomination for President in 2008!

You said it all, he just disqualified himself from every being seriously considered to be commander in chief.

Not to sure of that.....He is playing to the whacked out liberal base of the democratic party who hate GWB......He is trying to position himself to the left of the "Ice Princess" Hillary which is hard to do........
 

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Navy Pride said:
Not to sure of that.....He is playing to the whacked out liberal base of the democratic party who hate GWB......He is trying to position himself to the left of the "Ice Princess" Hillary which is hard to do........
He's doing all that and in the process as I said before, he just disqualified himself from every being seriously considered to be commander in chief.
 

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Re: Feingold Abandoned by Dems!

The dems proved once again that they are too cowardly to stand up to Bush.
 
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