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Feds Raid Pot Dispensaries in Washington, Where the Drug is Legal

HumanBeing

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"One of the dispensaries was the Bayside Collective in Olympia, the state capital, where seven government vehicles converged Wednesday morning. Agents with guns drawn seized business records and about $2,500 worth of marijuana intended for cancer patients"

Feds Raid Pot Dispensaries in Washington, Where the Drug is Legal

I'd make some snarky comment, but I'm not in the mood. I'm just too disgusted.
 

Fisher

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Well obviously it isn't legal.
 

HumanBeing

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Well obviously it isn't legal.
So why let people vote on making it legal if it's still going to be illegal either way? And don't you think cancer patients have an inalienable right to the only natural medicine known and proven to have the ability to damage and kill cancer cells? I mean, why spend all these billions of dollars on finding a cure for cancer if it's just going to be made illegal anyway?
 

Dittohead not!

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The federal government strikes yet another blow towards protecting us from ourselves and making sure that we continue to have a quarter of the world's prisoners right here in the bastion of liberty.

Does anyone in Washington understand that the war on drugs isn't working? Does anyone care?
 

douglas

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Apparently the feds rather let sick people suffer and die than let even one "drug" bust go. It's truly disgusting.
There are a dozen or so bills floating around the house that would stop this from happening, but they don't seem to have any real momentum. I swear, if every pot smoking hippie would just send a letter or two to congress, it'd be legal by 2014. It's the curse of a silent majority.
 

Fisher

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So why let people vote on making it legal if it's still going to be illegal either way? And don't you think cancer patients have an inalienable right to the only natural medicine known and proven to have the ability to damage and kill cancer cells? I mean, why spend all these billions of dollars on finding a cure for cancer if it's just going to be made illegal anyway?
Because national drug laws trump state drug laws. If a state wants to waste its time letting people vote on it, then it doesn't make it any less illegal.
 

HumanBeing

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Because national drug laws trump state drug laws
So you don't believe that human beings should have a basic inalienable right to medicine? Again I ask, what's the point in spending billions upon billions of your dollars on finding a cure to cancer, when the only known natural cure has already been outlawed? Logically, if they make a new cure and find it's easily grown and can get you high, that will end up being illegal too.

Where does a nation's right to create drug laws end and a human's right to potentially life saving medicine begin?
 

Paschendale

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Go go gadget federalism court battle!

Sadly, I'm not sure that Washington can win. It may take more states swinging towards legal pot before the federal policy changes. But I think it's only a matter of time.
 

MaggieD

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So why let people vote on making it legal if it's still going to be illegal either way? And don't you think cancer patients have an inalienable right to the only natural medicine known and proven to have the ability to damage and kill cancer cells? I mean, why spend all these billions of dollars on finding a cure for cancer if it's just going to be made illegal anyway?
I don't think anyone claims MJ cures cancer, HB. It's for pain relief and anti-nausea. Actually, it's hard for me to believe there's anything better than morphine for cancer pain. And as for nausea? There's very effective anti-nausea medication available that won't get people arrested.

Now. If cancer patients want MJ to relax? Get their minds off their illness? That's something else again. But no one will convince me that MJ relieves cancer pain.
 

HumanBeing

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I don't think anyone claims MJ cures cancer, HB. It's for pain relief and anti-nausea.
No, it straight up kills certain types of cancer cells, and severely damages others, all while leaving (or possibly even actively protecting) the healthy cells. This has been proven beyond any doubt.

"Cannabinoids may cause antitumor effects by various mechanisms, including induction of cell death, inhibition of cell growth, and inhibition of tumor angiogenesis invasion and metastasis.[9-12] One review summarizes the molecular mechanisms of action of cannabinoids as antitumor agents.[13] Cannabinoids appear to kill tumor cells but do not affect their nontransformed counterparts and may even protect them from cell death. These compounds have been shown to induce apoptosis in glioma cells in culture and induce regression of glioma tumors in mice and rats. Cannabinoids protect normal glial cells of astroglial and oligodendroglial lineages from apoptosis mediated by the CB1 receptor.[14]"
Cannabis and Cannabinoids (PDQ®) - National Cancer Institute

That's why people prefer it over chemotherapy, because chemo kills ALL the cells including the healthy ones. Cannabinoids only destroy the cancerous cells while actively protecting the healthy ones. Pretty cool stuff

But no one will convince me that MJ relieves cancer pain.
It's hard to see how someone who is usually so reasonable would say something so absurd :(
 
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Boo Radley

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I have read about pot can/does reduce some effects from chemo.
Please provide the link to its natural cancer fighting properties.
There's some very limited work on very specific cancers that show some promise. It's over stated by the poster you're responding to. Some are too willing to accept and not question what they read.
 

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No, it straight up kills certain types of cancer cells, and severely damages others. This has been proven beyond any doubt.

"Cannabinoids may cause antitumor effects by various mechanisms, including induction of cell death, inhibition of cell growth, and inhibition of tumor angiogenesis invasion and metastasis.[9-12] One review summarizes the molecular mechanisms of action of cannabinoids as antitumor agents.[13] Cannabinoids appear to kill tumor cells but do not affect their nontransformed counterparts and may even protect them from cell death. These compounds have been shown to induce apoptosis in glioma cells in culture and induce regression of glioma tumors in mice and rats. Cannabinoids protect normal glial cells of astroglial and oligodendroglial lineages from apoptosis mediated by the CB1 receptor.[14]"
Cannabis and Cannabinoids (PDQ®) - National Cancer Institute

It's hard to see how someone who is usually so reasonable would say something so absurd :(
Here's the deal. You know when I said nothing would convince me? Well, something convinced me. OMFG. I agree with YOU. That was absurd. I really had no idea.

Before I go on, see the quote I picked up here from the NCI shown as Spoiler? Why doesn't it show up in your original post? That's just plain weird. Did you edit it or something?

Anyway, thanks to your frownie face, I Googled and found the exact same thing. We probably Googled the same.

I am wrong. (I'm glad I'm wrong. Really glad.) Isn't the NCI "the government"? What? Are they nuckin' futz? Or just related to me? ;)

Thank you, Human Being. I've learned something extremely important tonight.
 

Fisher

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So you don't believe that human beings should have a basic inalienable right to medicine? Again I ask, what's the point in spending billions upon billions of your dollars on finding a cure to cancer, when the only known natural cure has already been outlawed? Logically, if they make a new cure and find it's easily grown and can get you high, that will end up being illegal too.

Where does a nation's right to create drug laws end and a human's right to potentially life saving medicine begin?
As long as the guys with the guns are willing to kick in your door and carry you away, there is no limit to the nation's "right" to enforce its laws. It is all about power, not rights.
 

mike2810

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There's some very limited work on very specific cancers that show some promise. It's over stated by the poster you're responding to. Some are too willing to accept and not question what they read.
Agreed. I did a quick search and found some articles on the subject. At this stage imo MJ is not a proven cure.
 

HumanBeing

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Here's the deal. You know when I said nothing would convince me? Well, something convinced me. OMFG. I agree with YOU. That was absurd. I really had no idea.

Before I go on, see the quote I picked up here from the NCI shown as Spoiler? Why doesn't it show up in your original post? That's just plain weird. Did you edit it or something?

Anyway, thanks to your frownie face, I Googled and found the exact same thing. We probably Googled the same.

I am wrong. (I'm glad I'm wrong. Really glad.) Isn't the NCI "the government"? What? Are they nuckin' futz? Or just related to me? ;)

Thank you, Human Being. I've learned something extremely important tonight.
I put it in a spoiler because some people don't like scrolling through medical jargon. I'm very glad you actually did. :)

To those saying it isn't proven, wake up and read again.
 

Boo Radley

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I put it in a spoiler because some people don't like scrolling through medical jargon. I'm very glad you actually did. :)

To those saying it isn't proven, wake up and read again.
You said straight up kills, suggesting a cure. That's overstating. So far, it's more a maybe than Anything else. More breeds to be done before we can be too assertive.
 

Jango

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Oh my God, will the government just leave marijuana users alone already! It's 2013 for Christ's sake. So long as children are not using, like with tobacco and alcohol, an adult should be able to make the decision on their own on whether or not they wish to partake. Taxpayer money for outrageously dangerous S.W.A.T. missions for marijuana busts is asinine.

Our government needs to treat us like the adults we are.
 

VanceMack

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Funny to see how the gen public at large will respond to this. There is an uneasiness about the NSA spying already but it hasnt been enough to inspire liberals to turn against their messiah. But...now they are ****ing with their dope....

so...we'll see...
 

HumanBeing

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You said straight up kills, suggesting a cure. That's overstating.
I didn't overstate anything. I said it kills cancer cells, it does. That makes it a viable treatment. Chemotherapy works in the same way, but with the massive difference that chemo also kills healthy cells, whereas canabinoids only attack the cancerous cells while protecting the healthy ones. Given the billions upon billions of dollars that have been spent on creating synthetic compounds that do the same thing but with far worse side effects, there is no excuse to prevent cancer patients from access to this medicine.

Fisher said:
As long as the guys with the guns are willing to kick in your door and carry you away, there is no limit to the nation's "right" to enforce its laws. It is all about power, not rights.
That's the second thread where you've used this as a fallback argument to counter questions of ethics. It's bad for a number of reasons. The main one is that it doesn't mean anything. I asked whether you think people should have a basic inalienable right to medicine, and your response was basically "well they don't, so that's that". That isn't really an argument or a debate, and it doesn't answer the question.

Another problem with it is what would happen if someone actually called you out on it. It happens from time to time, people get told their whole lives that their voices and opinions are irrelevant unless they can back it up with mass violence to get their way. It's arguments like that which contrubite towards the creation of the Ted Kaczynski's of this world. If your only argument for weed to be illegal is that you have the will, power, and violent intent to make it so, then I think you should just accept that you don't have an argument at all.
 

digsbe

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The feds did this, marijuana is federally illegal. A state shouldn't have the right to go against federal law like this anyway.
 

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Apparently the feds rather let sick people suffer and die than let even one "drug" bust go. It's truly disgusting.
There are a dozen or so bills floating around the house that would stop this from happening, but they don't seem to have any real momentum. I swear, if every pot smoking hippie would just send a letter or two to congress, it'd be legal by 2014. It's the curse of a silent majority.

A exerpt from that letter follows....." Man, Dude's wy do you keep hassling us Man ? Pot is helthy Man, it's medecin Dude. My Dealer says so. He's a certifyd medicinal Shaman from the Green Earth tribe so he nows Man. Pot helps me concontrate man and its good for the enviroment so wy dont you pigs lay off ?
 
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jmotivator

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No, it straight up kills certain types of cancer cells, and severely damages others, all while leaving (or possibly even actively protecting) the healthy cells. This has been proven beyond any doubt.

"Cannabinoids may cause antitumor effects by various mechanisms, including induction of cell death, inhibition of cell growth, and inhibition of tumor angiogenesis invasion and metastasis.[9-12] One review summarizes the molecular mechanisms of action of cannabinoids as antitumor agents.[13] Cannabinoids appear to kill tumor cells but do not affect their nontransformed counterparts and may even protect them from cell death. These compounds have been shown to induce apoptosis in glioma cells in culture and induce regression of glioma tumors in mice and rats. Cannabinoids protect normal glial cells of astroglial and oligodendroglial lineages from apoptosis mediated by the CB1 receptor.[14]"
Cannabis and Cannabinoids (PDQ®) - National Cancer Institute

That's why people prefer it over chemotherapy, because chemo kills ALL the cells including the healthy ones. Cannabinoids only destroy the cancerous cells while actively protecting the healthy ones. Pretty cool stuff



It's hard to see how someone who is usually so reasonable would say something so absurd :(


You can't say "straight up kills" and then provide evidence that it "may kill". There are lots of pharmaceuticals that "may" accomplish a medicinal goal, but until they've been studied beyond the "may" level and then gone through the FDA process can you start making your "straight up kills" claim. And these potential medicinal effects are most certainly not being delivered effectively in carcinogen filled smoke anyway.

What smoking pot DOES do is "straight up" cause lung cancer.

It's like taking the medicinal use of aspirin and using it to justify smoking the myrtle plant.

I wish pot legalization people would just be honest with everyone and just admit that they support it because they want to get stoned. If medical science extracted all the anti-cancer canabanoids, concentrated them and delivered them in a pill form that doesn't get you high would it be OK to ban the smoking of marijuana? I'm pretty sure same cadre of pot smokers would still be fighting for legalization of pot smoking.
 

americanwoman

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I wish pot legalization people would just be honest with everyone and just admit that they support it because they want to get stoned. If medical science extracted all the anti-cancer canabanoids, concentrated them and delivered them in a pill form that doesn't get you high would it be OK to ban the smoking of marijuana? I'm pretty sure same cadre of pot smokers would still be fighting for legalization of pot smoking.
Yes, I want legalization because I want to smoke it. The added health benefits are a plus. Happy now? :2razz:
 

Jack Fabulous

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I happen to agree with marijuana legalization but in spite of that, I just couldn't help laughing out loud when I read the article linked in the OP.

One of the dispensaries was the Bayside Collective in Olympia, the state capital, where seven government vehicles converged Wednesday morning. Agents with guns drawn seized business records and about $2,500 worth of marijuana intended for cancer patients, Casey Lee, who works at the clinic, [said]. "It's humiliating," Lee said. "They don't get to see the cancer patients."
Am I the only one who hears the sad violin music being played in the background? Cancer patients? Give me a break. I lived in Olympia for 2 years back in the 90's and have many freinds from there to this day. It's weed culture central. If people want to smoke pot and make it legal, fine. Go for it. Just don't try to hide behind some transparent mumbo jumbo about wanting to help the sick. Be honest about it and just admit that you enjoy catching a good buzz.

Cancer patients.... that's just TFF. Cue the poor starving children in 5... 4... 3...
 

buck

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So why let people vote on making it legal if it's still going to be illegal either way? And don't you think cancer patients have an inalienable right to the only natural medicine known and proven to have the ability to damage and kill cancer cells? I mean, why spend all these billions of dollars on finding a cure for cancer if it's just going to be made illegal anyway?
I realize that the owner/manager spoke about the cancer patients to pull at heart strings and make it sound noble But... just wondering.. what percentage of his clientele would you guess are cancer patients rather then just someone with supposed headaches or pain?

Edit: Just read Jack Fabulous's response, and it is close to what I was going for.
 
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