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just tell ME what evidence you have that it can. it's not our job to disprove abilitites you make up for the ISD
Just tell me what evidence you have that an ISD can't hit a target in warp.
Therr's no proof that they can, which is the point.Actually, I would like to comment on this discussion.
There is no proof that Empire ships cannot hit Fed ships while the Fed ships are in the ST universes version of FTL travel - there is only proof that Empire ships cannot hit other SW universe ships while they are in the SW universes version of FTL travel.
Yes. The two TOS episodes I cited show this - Balance of Terror, especiallyAre there any instances of ST ships at impulse firing at and hitting ST ships that were in warp?
Space is huge; small errors in laying a gun add up to big misses in a hurry.If so, one would have to assume that Empire ships would have a chance at hitting ST ships in warp, if only by filling the space in front of the ST ships with TL fire and such.
Therr's no proof that they can, which is the point.
There is proof, however, in E4, E5, E6, that their weapons are light speed at best, and that their fire control cannot see ships moving FTL, much less engage them.
If SW ships -could- engage ships moving FTL. for example, then the Falcon doesnt escape on her jump to Alderaan. as the Imperial ships just keep shooting at her and follow her path.
Both Death Stars were defended by hundreds of shield projectors, and thousands of turbolasers, ion cannons and laser cannons. The first one contained a complement of seven to nine thousand TIE fighters, along with tens of thousands of support craft, bombers, and gunships. Massive docking bays provided several Star Destroyers with dry docks, and more than a million Imperial personnel were on board both battle stations.
Design flaws:
One drawback of the original design was the power systems. Twenty-four hours were required to fully charge the laser. However, even low power shots were capable of massive destruction on a planetary scale. The second Death Star had redesigned systems and was capable of firing the superlaser once every three minutes. It also had improved targeting computers, allowing it to fire the weapon accurately at capital ships.
There were small gaps in the shields of the first Death Star; the Empire believed that this was harmless since only small ships could wiggle through the gaps. The shields of the second Death Star would have had no such gaps.
The second Death Star also corrected several other flaws in the original design. The two-meter exhaust vent that doomed the first station was replaced with millions of millimeter wide tubes, each designed to seal if excess energy was detected. The second station also boasted far more turbolaser batteries with redesigned targeting systems, allowing them to target starfighters more easily. The greatest concentration of turbolasers was located near the Emperor's throne tower.
Han stated that he still had to outrun the ISD's after going into hyperspace, this would seem to indicate that there is some sort of tracking available, if a bucket like Falcon could do it.
You mean in E4? IIRC, the alliance only had a small group of fighters and no capital ships in the system. Its not hard to imagine -them- not being able to take on the protection of the main gun. Fed starships are another matter.
In E6 the capital ships could not close with DS2 because it was protected by the ground-generated shield.
The Imperials can't shoot the FTL Fed ships.
Why? What's the difference? If they coud jump in "close to the planet", denoting an ability to jum in wherever and whenever, why did they have to orbit the planet to get the moon?
The scenes in E6 amd (especially) imply that the DS's main gun, while powerful, it very short ranged.
This proves nothing - killing ships takes -several- orders of magnitude less power than blowing up earth-size planets; the increased ROF and shorter cycling time doesn't necessarily denote any improvement of the weapon as it can just as easily - and more likely - be explained by firing said weapon at a lower power setting.Further, the first Death Star could not possibly have fired its main gun at ships and still been able to shoot at Alderaan. The first superlaser had a very long cycling time in order to fire at full power. This was corrected for the second Death Star, which you see firing much faster.
BY kowing that the jump was all that was necessary to lose them.How in ANH did Han know that they had finally lost “those Imperial slugs” if he couldn’t track them in hyperspace?
Except that this deomstration doesnt exit...Apples to oranges. This is not the same in any way. You’re arguing that the Federation would use a tactic which they demonstrably don’t...
sorry, but i refuse to accept "wookieepedia" as a valid source. any tard can write whatever they want in there.
as I have said ad nauseum, if it didn't happen on screen (and I'll add) or can't be logically concluded from something that did happen on screen...it don't count
BY knowing that the jump was all that was necessary to lose them.
...
Which screen? Movie, TV, or computer?
Film shows that ST ships are perfectly capable of fighting from warp against FTL and sub-light targets.You don't seem to understand my argument. I'm saying that it is stupid to assume that the federation will attack the empire solely from warp, because on-screen evidence shows that the federation mostly fights at sublight speeds. There is clearly a reason for that. Yes, the have the capability to occasionally fire a few shots from warp, but for the most part they do not (or cannot) fight that way.
Given the target's inability to manuver and its ability to target the ships while at warp, what advantage is there to fight at warp?There are examples of ST universe ships fighting at sublight speeds even in situations where it would be advantageous for them to attack from warp (i.e. when attacking planets, or stations with no warp engines of their own).
False. Any advantage there might be in dropping to sub-light to fight - whatever that may be - is miniscule compared to the advantage of staying at FTL where --no-- harm can be done to them.The assumption that the federation would attack the empire solely from warp, and that the empire would be completely unable to fight back is extremely erroneous, and unsupported by what we see on-screen.
movie and TV. none of that fanboy computer crap counts
There is no evidence to the contrary.Nonsense, your proof of isolated incidents doesn't change the vast evidence to the contrary...
There's no evidence to support this.Your memory is faulty, its shields had been destroyed by concentrated fire from the entire Rebel Fleet and the A-wing got lucky (or was the pilot unlucky? I'm not sure.) :mrgreen:
All of it is officially licensed and green lit by Lucas to fit within the Star Wars universe. Lucas Arts itself made most of the games and were all properly within the Star Wars universe.
Really, the point is that such a huge ship apparently has extraordinary vulnerabilities.Actually, the shields had already been taken down. And the fighter hitting the bridge was essentially an accident (the fighter itself had been hit and was out of control). The bridge crew was even talking about evening out the shields to compensate at the time they were hit.
Your argument has been disproven.Hello, one trick pony. Care to address my argument against this any time soon?
There's no evidence to support this.
yeah...that way he can get royalties or copywrite fees off of it. just because Lucas is a greedy **** doesn't make any of that crap legitimate.
Yes... so?as i recall, the rebels didn't know the Empire was expecting them and were surprised to find out that the shield was still up and they were being jammed. hence the frantic "pulling up" of all the ships on attack runs at the DS.
Yes... so?
Does this support the idea that they assumed they could not actually get thru the shield?
I might be missing someting...
Yes... so?
Does this support the idea that they assumed they could not actually get thru the shield?
I might be missing someting...
Yes. I know. ?Actually, in E6, the ground-based shield was taken down before any of the ships, even the fighters, could attack it. It was only the first death star that had shields that fighters could get through but not capital ships.
YOu did, and your coverage was countered.I covered this a few posts ago.
Earth has a gravity well - So, it cannot just jump into firing position and open up.Remember that imperial hyperdrives don't work well in gravity wells.
Hmm - same for earth?They probably didn't know where in its orbit the moon was
Yes... so?
Does this support the idea that they assumed they could not actually get thru the shield?
I might be missing someting...
Deflector shields.
Particle deflector shields protect a vessel from impacts by high-speed projectiles. The precise mechanisms accomplishing this are presently unknown, but the shields resist or deflect the motion of high-speed particles much more effectively than slow-moving masses. For instance a space station may maintain its protection whilst slow-moving freighter craft are free to approach and dock and enemy fighters fly through with little impedence. This velocity-dependent behaviour of deflectors seems similar to the action of a magnetic field on charged particles, which explains why some spacers to colloquially refer to deflectors as "magnetic shields". The existence of any real connection between deflectors and genuine magnetic phenomena is doubtful, because deflectors have the distinction of acting on uncharged objects. The most powerful deflectors, such as the security shield at Endor or the defense shields of major civilised planets, are able to block the passage of objects moving at almost any appreciable speed. This has disasterous results for any craft which unwittingly collides with the field. Starfighters entering the deflectors of a Death Star might experience slight resistence whereas high-velocity missiles would be seriously perturbed.
Deflectors are not effective against indefinitely violent impacts. The energy absorbed by the field when the projectile is deccelerated must be dissipated by the shield generator sustaining it. These generators have limits to their maximum rate of power dissipation and total absorptive capacity for any one impact. The quality rating of a shield system determines its effectiveness and the magnitude of this shield failure point. The Death Stars possessed deflector shields of immense power by comparison to those of capital starships, though much weaker than many ground-based deflector systems. The huge power demands of the superlaser and other key functions of the Death Stars prevented the implementation of comparably impressive deflectors.
The particle deflector shields of the first Death Star were easily able to withstand the impact of the debris from the explosion of Alderaan. According to the A New Hope novel the Death Star was at a distance of approximately six planetary diameters when the explosion took place, which is approximately 75000km. As discussed above, the amount of energy deliverd to the planet was very much greater than its gravitational binding energy. Consequently most of the injected energy would have come out again in the form of kinetic energy of the debris. Assuming that the explosion was even in all directions, the fraction of this energy incident on the Death Star is the ratio of the battle station's crossectional area to the surface area of the 75000km-radius sphere. If the Death Star was only 120km in diameter the fraction is about 1.6 x 10-7. Thus the absorptive capacity of the particle deflector shields is comfortably greater than a number which is itself very much in excess of:
S > (I-U)/U 1026 Joules
where I is the amount of energy injected by the superlaser, U is the magnitude of the gravitational binding energy of Alderaan. The actual value of I is probably greater than U by a factor of tens of thousands.
Holographic schematic showing the circulations of the security deflector shield projected from the sanctuary moon. Note that it only encloses a small geographical region of the moon, which is nonetheless wider than the prominent dish seen on the ground later in the movie.
Atmosphere containment shields.
The apertures of deep-space docking bays, such as those of the Death Stars, are sealed against the vacuum by a specialised adaption of deflector technology. A weak deflector field produced by a ring generator around the opening is tuned to cause back-scattering of impacts with velocities and energies typical of the gas molecules of a warm and habitable atmosphere. In this way large objects are able to fly through the bay entrance whilst most of the air is retained inside.
The shields are obviously too weak to appreciably affect the passage of a starship. In A New Hope and Return of the Jedi we witness the Millennium Falcon and several shuttles pass through the atmosphere containment shields of docking bays. The rebel fugitives in the freighter met little resistence from the shield during their hasty takeoff several hours later.
It is possible that the passage of a ship temporarily undermines the integrity of the containment. In A New Hope the flight controllers cleared and evacuated the Millennium Falcon's docking bay before reeling it inside. When Lord Vader's shuttle arrived in Return of the Jeci its bay was clear of personnel until after landing. (The stormtroopers paraded in after landing but before the Dark Lord disembarked. We don't know whether the Emperor's arrival proceeded similarly because we never saw the actual moment of touchdown.) The clearance procedure may be a routine precaution to avoid danger to people within the docking bay.
On the other hand the clearance might simply be intended to allow the starship pilot to land without fear of squashing or irradiating any stray people. In this case the we don't need to postulate any loss of atmospheric containment integrity during the passage of large objects.
Lighting around the aperture of a hangar indicates but does not seem to be necessary for the operation of the atmospheric containment field. Although all of the Death Star hangars seen to date have a complete illuminated ring, at least two of the hangars of Lord Vader's Executor warship have light rings which are interrupted at some points. (See Executor for more information.) The lighting most probably is a warning to humans and droids that they should not walk near or beyond that point of the deck.
Energy shielding.
Sometimes termed "ray shielding", these devices have an absorptive effect on radiation and beam attacks of a massless or nearly-massless nature. Energy shields are used to dampen the potential damage of blaster hits. As with particle deflector shields, energy shield generators have maximum dissipative power ratings. The energy shields of the vulnerable exhaust port on Death Star I prevented rebel starfighters from making simple laser cannon attacks. The quality of energy shields are combined with the quality of deflector shields to give the overall shield rating which is used in roleplaying game statistics.
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