Federal prosecutors in New York call for 'substantial term' in prison for Trump's ex-lawyer Michael

[rjay]

I wonder if they have more than Cohen's testimony on this. Seems thin if that's all they have. My gut is that they would have not included it, if there was insufficient evidence to warrant it, and probably other things coming that won't make this look like a single, weak mention of a sitting president. I hope.

I could be wrong but I get the impression that Cohen was more of a corroborating witness than someone introducing new facts. I suspect your gut is correct.

 

[Saladin4]

? OK So we have proof that Trump coordinated and Directed Cohen? We got proof right?

Same as WE have Proof that Trump called Putin, made a deal to interfere with the 2016 election.

We know Exactly what the 2 of the 3 case that Flynn helped tremendously in even though the documents was HIGHLY redacted.


You said it in your prior post, you are going to wait till you we see a little more details... I WANT justice if Trump is GUILT lets deal with it and move on..... But to accuse without facts to criminalize a person... again without KNOWING the facts... These are ALL accusations at this point...... Flynn cooperating and assisting in 3 additional cases. DO we know what those or 2 cases out side of 1 case being the Russian investigation??

trump did not call Putin, Russian agents directed by Putin reached out to trump's associates and inner circle...These associates informed trump himself who gave his approval to proceed with whatever was necessary to swing the election...Now you know...Soon all of America will know

 

[Mach]

These are ALL accusations at this point......

That's what the document includes, an allegation of criminality, falling short of indictment, presumably because POTUS cannot be indicted per DOJ policy.
What did you think this was, a trial verdict resulting form an indictment they cannot file?

 

[Tanngrisnir]

Mother Jones :lamo
The Left's version of Infowars.

Roadvirus: never able to address the actual facts in the reporting, but always able to pout about where such reporting is hosted.

Sorry this is so confusing for you.

 

[SLC]

I could be wrong but I get the impression that Cohen was more of a corroborating witness than someone introducing new facts. I suspect your gut is correct.

You generally don't want to make your corroborating witness plead guilty to perjury. It damages their credibility as a witness.

 

[Exactice]

We're not making assumptions.
Cohen testified under oath as part of a plea, to this.
The prosecutors believe it's true sufficient to include it in their court document.

If you are asking on what did they base their claim, that's not yet public record. It could be if it ever went to trial, for example...how do you expect that to happen?
If Trump were you or I, he would have already, likely been indicted on this charge.
As POTUS, he cannot be indicted.

How would posting these facts, be "fishing for evidence" as you claim? This is Cohen's sentencing document, it's a done deal.

That makes sense I get it!

Sorry maybe you are maybe your not...making assumptions. I guess the last 4 pages here, that I got was. Cohen stated he was directed by individual 1 to make payments. THIS Is the Accusation.

The Prosecutors believe its true? I would believe it TRUE as well if I can see some kind of evidence. THATS all Im saying. At this point its a statement and the first time Cohen went in we knew he was going to make this statement. The question and point I am making is I am waiting to make the GUILTY statement is when the proof is shown to the public. I am NOT against impeaching TRUMP if he is INDEED guilty of a crime.

Currently Flynn' guilty plea and the indictment and lack of jail time does not indicate collusion.

Cohen pleading guilty to 3 separate charges.... then the Campaign finance that implicates the President is a statement from Cohen yet nothing that backs it up. Thats all...

 

[Cardinal]

I could be wrong but I get the impression that Cohen was more of a corroborating witness than someone introducing new facts. I suspect your gut is correct.

Actually he was cooperating and providing new information on quite a number of investigations, such as the SC investigation, the SDNY tax evasion investigation of Trump and the SDNY fraud investigation of Trump Organization. The FBI has a lot of resources they can use to see how all of them line up with Cohen's claims. All that cooperation and information could be verified a thousand different ways, and if he was caught lying on just one thing then you could add lying to the FBI to his sentencing memorandum.

But it's important to remember that the SC does have quite a big of information they can use to corroborate Cohen's claims, else as I said they would have just said that Cohen "asserted" that Trump ordered him to commit Federal crimes.

 

[Exactice]

trump did not call Putin, Russian agents directed by Putin reached out to trump's associates and inner circle...These associates informed trump himself who gave his approval to proceed with whatever was necessary to swing the election...Now you know...Soon all of America will know

While plausible, You know this? You got evidence? GAWT damn lets get this done cause Im tired of arguing with fellow Americans here. Ill say this I love you guys way more than the President, I respect your opinions as well.

But we GOT proof of Russian Agents reaching out and making deals. WELL lets get it in the public so I can call my congress person get congress for impeachment proceedings and get this done

 

[Exactice]

That's what the document includes, an allegation of criminality, falling short of indictment, presumably because POTUS cannot be indicted per DOJ policy.
What did you think this was, a trial verdict resulting form an indictment they cannot file?

I got this.... BUT this would the validate and have the majority support, I am a Trump voter. You show me proof that collusion was evident and Trump consciously participated. I would ask my representative to move to impeach.

I am about the law if he DID break it then lets get it on. BUT if NOT..... and its all accusations without proof.... will the OTHER end move on? Get off the Impeachment train and start working on American Policies that matter?

 

[MovingPictures]

I think they will too. I didn’t expect them too, but I cannot see how they could ignore this, and there is much more they still need to learn & investigate. 2019 is going to be verrrrryyyyy interesting.


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I'll go out on a limb and predict this: Trump gets impeached in 2019.

 

[MovingPictures]

Another sobering thought is that Trump could run out the statute of limitations just by being elected to a second term. Aside from that he would need a Presidential pardon by a Republican President that follows him.

Technically speaking, prosecutors could indict him now, which would prevent the SoL from running out, but that's not likely to happen.

So for now where we stand is that if his crimes are to have any meaning then we're back to where we started. Ultimately trump will pay political consequences whether by impeachment or by being voted out of office.

Sure, but his reelection odds are looking more astronomical by the day and with the rust belt going blue, these developments are only going to make those efforts more remote.

If he resigns he can a pardon from Pence for any and all crimes he believes prosecutors know about.

 

[Cardinal]

I'll go out on a limb and predict this: Trump gets impeached in 2019.

In a normal universe we'd have all we need to move forward with impeachment right now. Republicans in the Senate aren't going to go along, there being only a few Federal Crimes. Defrauding the American public and Emoluments violations aren't going to do it either. What's convenient for them is they've remained tight lipped about what would meet their standard at all, or if anything even could meet their standard.

Impeachment, though, would force them to publicly discuss the issue and put them down on record that they're okay with having a criminal in office.

 

[Cardinal]

Sure, but his reelection odds are looking more astronomical by the day and with the rust belt going blue, these developments are only going to make those efforts more remote.

If he resigns he can a pardon from Pence for any and all crimes he believes prosecutors know about.

In that sense you kind of have to make a choice. Is it important enough to you to see him behind bars that you would let him reach the end of his term?

On the one hand a lifelong criminal finally gets the justice he has evaded for his entire life. On the other hand the country is spared any more chaos at his hands.

Not necessarily an easy choice.

(By the way, I don't accept resignation as a viable possibility).

 

[Saladin4]

While plausible, You know this? You got evidence? GAWT damn lets get this done cause Im tired of arguing with fellow Americans here. Ill say this I love you guys way more than the President, I respect your opinions as well.

But we GOT proof of Russian Agents reaching out and making deals. WELL lets get it in the public so I can call my congress person get congress for impeachment proceedings and get this done

Mueller is getting it all together...These buffoons around trump folded pretty easily....trump should resign (he won't) rather than being impeached....The evidence will overwhelming

 

[Exactice]

That's what the document includes, an allegation of criminality, falling short of indictment, presumably because POTUS cannot be indicted per DOJ policy.
What did you think this was, a trial verdict resulting form an indictment they cannot file?

Mach Also couple more thoughts. Amid Cohens guilty plea to lying about the Russia Trump tower.... Does this NOT cast doubt on his general testimony? I mean then the question is the 2 Financial crimes are easy to prove. The lying is also pretty easy to prove.... With his known lying How easy is it to prove the Trump Directed Cohen to Payoff the women WITH the intent of influencing the elections? Because ultimately that is the case against Trump.

Lets say Trump has 50 NDA cases handled the SAME exact way this just happened during the campaign, the burden to proof that this was a Campaign finance violation to Influence would be a little harder?

Secondly... Cohen was the fixer.... IS Stormy and McDougal the ONLY NDA's....I highly doubt it.....

 

[Exactice]

Mueller is getting it all together...These buffoons around trump folded pretty easily....trump should resign (he won't) rather than being impeached....The evidence will overwhelming

I guess its the Glass Half Full Half Empty.

YOU SEE ALL the evidence. I see nothing of Collusion. I even have a hard time justifying the Finance violation. BUT thats jut my interpretation.

AGAIN Ill say it though...I am FOR the law IF there is sufficient evidence I would want Impeachment proceedings. I would then want indictments.

BUT if there is NO evidence...will you guys back off of Trump and let him be the POTUS. if there is NO evidence to indicate such accusations?

 

[Saladin4]

I guess its the Glass Half Full Half Empty.

YOU SEE ALL the evidence. I see nothing of Collusion. I even have a hard time justifying the Finance violation. BUT thats jut my interpretation.

AGAIN Ill say it though...I am FOR the law IF there is sufficient evidence I would want Impeachment proceedings. I would then want indictments.

BUT if there is NO evidence...will you guys back off of Trump and let him be the POTUS. if there is NO evidence to indicate such accusations?

The "finance violation" by itself is a felony...Pretty cut and dry....Mueller has details, times, dates and places of trump's collusion...It will all come out

 

[HumblePi]

And according to the filing, 'Individual 1' directed at least 2 crimes. This is reminiscent of what Rex Tillerson said in his interview Thursday. Trump wanted him to do things that were illegal. This is what is bred in the underworld and it carried over the U.S. government.

 

[Exactice]

The "finance violation" by itself is a felony...Pretty cut and dry....Mueller has details, times, dates and places of trump's collusion...It will all come out

I think certain finance Violations are felonies. Obama got hit with a massive fine.

But paying off someone so it does NOT influence is another type of violation. YET dont know if its "CUT and Dry" as I debated proving one it was directed and 2 it was out of the norm.

As for Collusion, WOW you know Mueller has details, times dates and places? OK .. WELL like I said. IF this is true I would be in COMPLETE acceptance of Impeachment. If there is NO Proof will you withdraw and back off Trump? Yes or NO?

 

[SLC]

The whole Trump paid off McDougal and that is a campaign violation is a very very thin case.

1. Trump is allowed to spend his own money on the campaign anyway he chooses.
2. Trump can legitimately say the NDA was to hide the infidelity from his wife.
3. And as has been pointed out there are likely other NDA's handled in similar fashion but not done during the election.

Remember just because Cohen pled guilty to election violation does not mean the case would have held up in court. It means the prosecutor thought Cohen was guilty but a jury or a judge has not heard the case and rendered a judgement. So this is not a gotcha moment. Its a let's see if Mueller has anything more moment.

 

[SLC]

I guess its the Glass Half Full Half Empty.

YOU SEE ALL the evidence. I see nothing of Collusion. I even have a hard time justifying the Finance violation. BUT thats jut my interpretation.

AGAIN Ill say it though...I am FOR the law IF there is sufficient evidence I would want Impeachment proceedings. I would then want indictments.

BUT if there is NO evidence...will you guys back off of Trump and let him be the POTUS. if there is NO evidence to indicate such accusations?

Somehow I doubt it.

 

[Exactice]

Somehow I doubt it.

So do I...... As a supporter of Trump, I support his policies but if he is guilty of a crime, the law is greater than him.

But people hate Trump no matter what guilty or Not, Mueller can come out with an EXONERATION letter like no other and people would still think he is guilty.....

 

[Tanngrisnir]

The whole Trump paid off McDougal and that is a campaign violation is a very very thin case.

1. Trump is allowed to spend his own money on the campaign anyway he chooses.
2. Trump can legitimately say the NDA was to hide the infidelity from his wife.
3. And as has been pointed out there are likely other NDA's handled in similar fashion but not done during the election.

Remember just because Cohen pled guilty to election violation does not mean the case would have held up in court. It means the prosecutor thought Cohen was guilty but a jury or a judge has not heard the case and rendered a judgement. So this is not a gotcha moment. Its a let's see if Mueller has anything more moment.

IOW, you're completely ignorant of this matter and of its details.

Cohen borrowed $130,000 from his HELOC, washed it through a bogus corporation, paid Stormy Daniels. Then he went back to the Trump Organization, submits a bill for campaign expenses. He also submitted a $50,000 bill for campaign related IT expenses. The company then pays him $180,000, rounds it up so he breaks even on taxes (to $360,000), THEN kicks in a $60,000 bonus for $420,000. To disguise the nature of the payment - one massive payout in an illegal campaign contribution from Trump Organization - they break it up into multiple payments distributed over the year of $35,000 each. This is conspiracy, money laundering, campaign finance violations, fraud and, depending on the accounting, tax fraud.

You simply have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[maxparrish]

They can't indict Trump, where would he be testifying to in the short term?
House and Senate may do impeachment one day, they can call Cohen, but I doubt that would be related to this plea.

You know, being president makes it hard for Trump to face the same justice any one of us would be faced with...special times require special measures...and a special counsel

besides, I thought Trump wanted it to be speedy and over soon? I suppose they could seal indictments for him, but no evidence of that so far. And if they didn't release this, it could tip their hand for sealed indictments..
So yeah, don't overthink it, all will hopefully be revealed soon.

I'm not over thinking it, I am stating the obvious that has eluded three others in denial (Cardinal, Slyfox, and Tanngrisnir). If Cohen plead guilty, presumably with a plea deal, the fact that he is being sentenced now means there are no other parties the feds intend to indict where Cohens testimony would contribute.

Cohen faced 65 years in prison, and pled guilty on five counts of tax evasion, one count of making false statements to a financial institution, one count of willfully causing an unlawful corporate contribution, and one count of making an excessive campaign contribution. So in return for pleading guilty, he agreed not challenge any sentence above 63 months.

The feds didn't want go through the effort of proving dubious charge on a campaign contribution that could be overturned, or to make a future case, they just wanted him to confess to the right things and implicate trump for purely political purposes. I suspect it was vetted with Mueller, and that is what Mueller will also do...give a damning report to Congress and leave it in their hands.

The "useful" information is nothing more than his parroting the prosecutors talking point.

 

[PoliSciXtina]

I think certain finance Violations are felonies. Obama got hit with a massive fine.

But paying off someone so it does NOT influence is another type of violation. YET dont know if its "CUT and Dry" as I debated proving one it was directed and 2 it was out of the norm.

As for Collusion, WOW you know Mueller has details, times dates and places? OK .. WELL like I said. IF this is true I would be in COMPLETE acceptance of Impeachment. If there is NO Proof will you withdraw and back off Trump? Yes or NO?

Not directed to me but yes I would back off trump. I don’t think it’s the conspiracy that will implicate trump but other crimes- obstruction of justice, financial crimes with his business/money laundering . But that is just my opinion of course. I hope the public gets the entire mueller report when it’s all said and done!!


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