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The more I learn about World War II, the more I realize there wasn't much moral high-ground to stand on. While we weren't attempting to literally erase entire countries, we were interning Japanese-Americans in squalid conditions and now this. I mean, we were basically a co-belligerent like Finland until Japan attacked us in 1941 - WWII had already been ongoing between two to three years before we decided to do anything.
Actually, we had been under attack since at least 1937.
The war started before the conflict in Europe expanded,
and the US was not a belligerent in the Winter War, so not sure where you are going there at all.
If you think the US was not attacked until 1941, you really need to look through some more history.
Specifically, Japan's 1931 invasion of Manchuria. And?
Like I said, discounting the minor gunboat attack (which wasn't even considered a wartime engagement as the U.S. and Japan were not at war at the time and it was a mistake) and the consul getting punched in the face, the U.S. was not attacked until 1941.
The attack and sinking of a US gunboat, as well as the attack on 3 other American ships at the same time. That makes a purposeful attack and sinking of 4 American ships.
WIDELY BELIEVED THE FIRST CASUALTY OF WHAT WOULD BECOME WORLD WAR II. HIS WAS ONE OF THE BIGGEST FUNERALS IN LOUISIANA HISTORY. LOCAL VFW HALL NAMED IN HIS HONOR
Despite Falgout's death and the other injuries, the Augusta did not return fire, a New York Times story said, "because the officers were unable to determine whether (the shell) came from an airplane or from Chinese batteries" nearby.
Like I said, discounting the minor gunboat attack (which wasn't even considered a wartime engagement as the U.S. and Japan were not at war at the time and it was a mistake) and the consul getting punched in the face, the U.S. was not attacked as a military adversary of Japan until 1941.
I don't know where you're getting this '4 American "ships"' figure
It was never destroyed or 'sunk', and they never even confirmed whether it was Japan or China that had hit the boat. The Japanese did seize a tugboat on November 30th, but returned it a day later. Then there was the SS Athenia sunk by Germany on 3 September 1939 immediately after Britain declared war on Germany, in which 28 US citizens were killed.
Rather simple. The 4 ships sank were the USS Panay, and the Chevron owned and operated Mei Ping, Mei An and Mei Hsia oil tankers. All attacked at the same time in the same area.
All 4 were indeed American ships, 1 military 3 civilian.
Oh please, this is reaching at the most extreme.
The boats were attacked by 9 Nakajima A4N fighters, an aircraft that China never had. Not only that, Japan made a formal apology for the attack. They also paid more than $2 million in damages for the attacks.
You are simply trying to do anything you can to refute the evidence here, and it is rather silly to be honest. "Minor gunboat incident", the intentional attack and sinking of 4 US ships. Go peddly those goods elsewhere, because it simply shows that you really do not know much about the origins of WWII.
And I'm just supposed to take your word on it, right?
:lamo My work here is done.
On the 11th, with what appeared to be aimed artillery fire dropping close by the ship, Panay formed a convoy with three Socony Vacuum Oil Company (Standard Oil) tankers, the SS Mieping, SS Meishia, and the SS Meian, and moved seven miles up the river. These vulnerable ships sorely needed Panay’s protection. By the same token, Panay and her sister vessels in the Yangtze Patrol relied upon them for fuel.
Despite the carnage, the evacuation continued. The Meiping came close aboard, its captain hoping to take on passengers. Jim Marshall of Colliers managed to leap from Panay to the tanker, but he was the only person to do so. Sensing that the oil tankers were likely to be the next victim, Anders waved Meiping away. The last thing he needed was for the gunboat to be sitting next to a floating bomb.
Following Lt. Anders’ written directives, the wounded were the first off the ship. Captain Hughes was placed on the only stretcher available, and ferried to the left bank of the river some 600 yards away. Meanwhile Ensign Biwerse visited the shattered radio room, gathered together the codebooks and threw them over the side. Rations and medical supplies were gathered, and lifebelts broken out. Some in the crew stacked wooden tabletops by the rail, in case a fast escape proved necessary. With the Yangtze’s fast-moving current — upwards of seven miles per hour — even a short swim could prove fatal.
As the evacuation of the gunboat progressed, Anders’ hunch proved right: the Japanese turned their attention to the oil tankers, and in moments two of the three were aflame. Aboard the Meiping, the visiting complement of the Panay’s crew again attempted to put out the flames, but this time it was to no avail. Eventually they abandoned ship. “From afar,” wrote Alley, “we could hear the pitiful screams of [the] Chinese crew members.” The Meian, the only vessel to survive the onslaught, was nevertheless badly hit and its American captain, C.H. Carlson, killed. Disabled, the ship was eventually beached on the far bank.
Wow, really? Apparently you are unable or unwilling to do any research at all.
OK, fine. You can start here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Panay_incident
Then you can go here:
USS Panay - Suddenly and Deliberately Attacked!
How about a contemporary newpaper reporting on the reparations:
Or another?
You know, simply denying anything and absolutely refusing to do your own research is really lazy.
Claiming that I claimed the USS Panay wasn't attacked and denying that I've done my own research is really dishonest (since you prefer to go ad-hominem with this, let's). I never denied that. One U.S. military vessel was sunk (USS Panay), that is a fact. That is what I meant, and it is fairly obvious what I meant. You were just being nitpicky and snide and arrogantly flaunting superficial and desultory irrelevancies for the sake of it ("Uh oh, they didn't clarify it was military - despite the fact that they obviously meant that! I will now go out of my way to point this out despite what a ****headed and pointless thing to do besides try to make myself look more intelligent and more important than I really am and then I will proceed to drag this one little slip up out as looooong as possible because I am super-duper-important and everyone needs to state every little detail exactly as I want it to be stated because I have an incessant need to police the forum of all matters military, because I was in the military that automatically makes me more important and informed on the matter than you dumb-ass civilian weaklings!) Oh, yes, my dear friend, I've been around and I've seen the world. You clearly have underestimated my ability to see through your (surprisingly transparent) facade. Those little mind-tricks don't work on me pal, you knew what I meant - and despite your inevitable move to pretend you did not, you have been exposed for the intellectually dishonest position that you are at.
If you think the US was not attacked until 1941, you really need to look through some more history.
The more I learn about World War II, the more I realize there wasn't much moral high-ground to stand on. While we weren't attempting to literally erase entire countries, we were interning Japanese-Americans in squalid conditions and now this. I mean, we were basically a co-belligerent like Finland until Japan attacked us in 1941 - WWII had already been ongoing between two to three years before we decided to do anything.
(Ran out of time to edit, of course).
I've been dealing with people like you all my life, I know your type. You look down on people who haven't served, and you spit on them. They are like dirt to you, not even human. Anything that isn't "America" everything is potentially evil. You whine about liberals and Obama. You believe asinine things like a secret Communist coup to takeover the country. I bet you even believe Obama wiretapped Trump, don't you? I mean, the above post proves you will see what you want to see. Then again, if you will only see what you want to see, I suppose I am wasting my time on you. Next time you try to start **** with me with this irritating and pointless anal-retentiveness:
I'm going to ignore you. And with this knowledge, if you continue to try to shove your Right-Wing Conservative-Authoritarian Military-Imperialist Ultra-Nationalist agenda down my throat, I will know for a fact that everything in this sentence is in fact 100% true.
Now, I will re-assume control over this conversation from the intentionally-dishonest direction you are attempting to wrangle it.
Here is my original post:
I will now go over what I meant with this post, bullet-point-by-bullet-point, so you cannot claim ignorance, in the following post after this since I am sure I am running into a character limit.
If you think the US was not attacked until 1941, you really need to look through some more history.
The more I learn about World War II, the more I realize there wasn't much moral high-ground to stand on. While we weren't attempting to literally erase entire countries, we were interning Japanese-Americans in squalid conditions and now this. I mean, we were basically a co-belligerent like Finland until Japan attacked us in 1941 - WWII had already been ongoing between two to three years before we decided to do anything.
The more I learn about World War II, the more I realize there wasn't much moral high-ground to stand on. While we weren't attempting to literally erase entire countries, we were interning Japanese-Americans in squalid conditions and now this. I mean, we were basically a co-belligerent like Finland until Japan attacked us in 1941 - WWII had already been ongoing between two to three years before we decided to do anything.
I was obviously talking about the Attack on Pearl Harbor - December 7, 1941. Discounting the American embassy consul to Japan who was punched in the face by a Japanese soldier, and that gunboat that was attacked in the midst Nanking Massacre of Japan against China, the Attack on Pearl Harbor was - indeed - the first time America militarily opposed Japan in World War II.
Your protestations are not convincing. You made a flat misstatement of fact, got caught at it, and then tried to hide that fact with surly assertions that it was obvious that you meant something other than what you wrote.
As to turning away Jews, the U.S. was still struggling with the Great Depression. It should not surprise anyone that most Americans were not wild about admitting foreigners they knew would make jobs even harder to get. To invoke anti-Semitism to explain this reluctance is to level a disgusting slander against the U.S.
Remember, there were many ways to be put into a concentration camp. And here are some of those that were not based upon religion or race.
Primarily, most of the "Politicals" were Communists. Anywhere from a more Liberal Socialist professor all the way to bomb throwing riot causing Anarchists. Do we want to accept huge numbers of people like that into the country? And remember, this was less than 2 decades after a string of Anarchist inspired attacks and bombings inside the US.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1919_United_States_anarchist_bombings
In fact, the first waves of prisoners in these camps were almost universally political in nature. The placing of Jews and other religious and racial inmates did not really come about until after WWII started.
But you even had Nazi officials placed in the camps, as well as soldiers and even Lutheran ministers. Anybody who stood up against (or pissed off) the Nazi Party could potentially be sent off to a camp.
And just because they opposed the Nazis, that did not necessarily mean they were our allies.
Claiming that I claimed the USS Panay wasn't attacked and denying that I've done my own research is really dishonest (since you prefer to go ad-hominem with this, let's). I never denied that. One U.S. military vessel was sunk (USS Panay), that is a fact.
I bet you even believe Obama wiretapped Trump, don't you?
Were the Jewish refugees bombing places in the US like what the anarchists were doing? For you to equate them on the same level is not only misleading but ignorant as well.
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