• Please keep all posts on the Rittenhouse verdict here: Rittenhouse Verdict. Note the moderator warnings in the thread. The thread will be heavily moderated with a zero tolerance policy for any baiting, flaming, trolling or other rule breaks. Stick to the topic and not the other posters. Thank you.
  • This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Fbi 'rewrites law' to let her off...

MickeyW

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2015
Messages
14,012
Reaction score
3,439
Location
Southern Oregon
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
There is no way of getting around this: According to Director James Comey (disclosure: a former colleague and longtime friend of mine), Hillary Clinton checked every box required for a felony violation of Section 793(f) of the federal penal code (Title 18): With lawful access to highly classified information she acted with gross negligence in removing and causing it to be removed it from its proper place of custody, and she transmitted it and caused it to be transmitted to others not authorized to have it, in patent violation of her trust. Director Comey even conceded that former Secretary Clinton was “extremely careless” and strongly suggested that her recklessness very likely led to communications (her own and those she corresponded with) being intercepted by foreign intelligence services.

FBI Rewrites Federal Law to Let Hillary Off the Hook | National Review
 

MickeyW

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2015
Messages
14,012
Reaction score
3,439
Location
Southern Oregon
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
That statement alone, should disqualify her for a Presidential bid!
 

bubbabgone

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Messages
31,888
Reaction score
16,194
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
There is no way of getting around this: According to Director James Comey (disclosure: a former colleague and longtime friend of mine), Hillary Clinton checked every box required for a felony violation of Section 793(f) of the federal penal code (Title 18): With lawful access to highly classified information she acted with gross negligence in removing and causing it to be removed it from its proper place of custody, and she transmitted it and caused it to be transmitted to others not authorized to have it, in patent violation of her trust. Director Comey even conceded that former Secretary Clinton was “extremely careless” and strongly suggested that her recklessness very likely led to communications (her own and those she corresponded with) being intercepted by foreign intelligence services.

FBI Rewrites Federal Law to Let Hillary Off the Hook | National Review

It does appear there were factors other than strict adherence to the Law here.
His comments leading up to stating his decision sure sounded like a recommendation to indict would follow.
I'm not accusing Comey of folding to the Clintons on this but it does look like he considered the who, what, where, and when in his decision ... shouldn't be that way but there it is.
 

longview

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 25, 2012
Messages
32,630
Reaction score
10,540
Location
Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
There is no way of getting around this: According to Director James Comey (disclosure: a former colleague and longtime friend of mine), Hillary Clinton checked every box required for a felony violation of Section 793(f) of the federal penal code (Title 18): With lawful access to highly classified information she acted with gross negligence in removing and causing it to be removed it from its proper place of custody, and she transmitted it and caused it to be transmitted to others not authorized to have it, in patent violation of her trust. Director Comey even conceded that former Secretary Clinton was “extremely careless” and strongly suggested that her recklessness very likely led to communications (her own and those she corresponded with) being intercepted by foreign intelligence services.

FBI Rewrites Federal Law to Let Hillary Off the Hook | National Review
That is how I saw it, anyone else who handled classified data in this way, would likely be going to prison.
 

ttwtt78640

Sometimes wrong
DP Veteran
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
73,256
Reaction score
41,771
Location
Uhland, Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
Since there was no precedent for the SoS (or any other cabinet member) establishing a personal email server in their private home, totally outside government control (to frustrate FOIA requests?), it would be "unfair" to inconvenience HRC by charging her with a crime simply for having put classified data on it. ;)

The precedent for ignoring "minor" felony crimes committed by very high ranking public officials has now been firmly established.
 

Glen Contrarian

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 21, 2013
Messages
17,688
Reaction score
8,046
Location
Bernie to the left of me, Hillary to the right, he
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
There is no way of getting around this: According to Director James Comey (disclosure: a former colleague and longtime friend of mine), Hillary Clinton checked every box required for a felony violation of Section 793(f) of the federal penal code (Title 18): With lawful access to highly classified information she acted with gross negligence in removing and causing it to be removed it from its proper place of custody, and she transmitted it and caused it to be transmitted to others not authorized to have it, in patent violation of her trust. Director Comey even conceded that former Secretary Clinton was “extremely careless” and strongly suggested that her recklessness very likely led to communications (her own and those she corresponded with) being intercepted by foreign intelligence services.

FBI Rewrites Federal Law to Let Hillary Off the Hook | National Review

Want a hanky to wipe the tears?

Don't worry, you'll still have plenty of opportunity to vote for the guy who gets information and opinion from white supremacist websites.
 

Glen Contrarian

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 21, 2013
Messages
17,688
Reaction score
8,046
Location
Bernie to the left of me, Hillary to the right, he
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
Since there was no precedent for the SoS (or any other cabinet member) establishing a personal email server in their private home, totally outside government control (to frustrate FOIA requests?), it would be "unfair" to inconvenience HRC by charging her with a crime simply for having put classified data on it. ;)

The precedent for ignoring "minor" felony crimes committed by very high ranking public officials has now been firmly established.

I don't suppose you remember Gerald Ford giving Nixon a blanket pardon for any and all crimes he may have committed while he was president of the United States....
 

Captain Adverse

Classical Liberal Sage
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Messages
16,636
Reaction score
21,916
Location
Mid-West USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
I found this part of the article particularly telling:

The added intent element, moreover, makes no sense: The point of having a statute that criminalizes gross negligence is to underscore that government officials have a special obligation to safeguard national defense secrets; when they fail to carry out that obligation due to gross negligence, they are guilty of serious wrongdoing. The lack of intent to harm our country is irrelevant. People never intend the bad things that happen due to gross negligence.

Read more at: FBI Rewrites Federal Law to Let Hillary Off the Hook | National Review

The point of "gross negligence" is to alleviate the need for proof of any willful intent to commit harm.

The only intent necessary is that of a willful decision to act in violation of the law itself. She willfully chose to violate the statute and knowingly used unauthorized methods of sending, receiving, and storing classified government materials. There is also the possibility she intentionally destroyed evidence of this activity, indicating that she knew all along she was willfully violating the law.

The fact that nothing will be done simply exemplifies the corruption in government her candidacy represents. :coffeepap:
 

Henrin

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
60,458
Reaction score
12,357
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
It does appear there were factors other than strict adherence to the Law here.
His comments leading up to stating his decision sure sounded like a recommendation to indict would follow.
I'm not accusing Comey of folding to the Clintons on this but it does look like he considered the who, what, where, and when in his decision ... shouldn't be that way but there it is.

There is really no good reason that Clinton should not have been indicted based on what he said. All evidence points to Comey not doing his job.
 

Captain Adverse

Classical Liberal Sage
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Messages
16,636
Reaction score
21,916
Location
Mid-West USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
I don't suppose you remember Gerald Ford giving Nixon a blanket pardon for any and all crimes he may have committed while he was president of the United States....

I don't suppose you recall that a pardon does not make the person any less guilty of the crime(s) committed. It only "forgives" them.

Meanwhile, only the head of state can issue a pardon. For Federal crimes that is the President...not the head of the FBI.

This was more of an investigator saying "move along, nothing to see here," while we are all trying to get a good look at a body with an axe in the back of it's head. :coffeepap:
 
Last edited:

Henrin

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
60,458
Reaction score
12,357
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
I don't suppose you remember Gerald Ford giving Nixon a blanket pardon for any and all crimes he may have committed while he was president of the United States....

This is not a pardon. This is the FBI quite literally making the case that Clinton broke the law and then doing nothing about it.
 

ttwtt78640

Sometimes wrong
DP Veteran
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
73,256
Reaction score
41,771
Location
Uhland, Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
I don't suppose you remember Gerald Ford giving Nixon a blanket pardon for any and all crimes he may have committed while he was president of the United States....

The head of the FBI has no such power to pardon. I would have no problem with Obama issuing such a pardon so long as it was conditional on HRC never seeking public office.
 

MickeyW

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2015
Messages
14,012
Reaction score
3,439
Location
Southern Oregon
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
This is not a pardon. This is the FBI quite literally making the case that Clinton broke the law and then doing nothing about it.

Exactly! The FBI has become a political pawn....

The head of the FBI has no such power to pardon. I would have no problem with Obama issuing such a pardon so long as it was conditional on HRC never seeking public office.

Ditto!
 

joG

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
43,839
Reaction score
9,638
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
There is no way of getting around this: According to Director James Comey (disclosure: a former colleague and longtime friend of mine), Hillary Clinton checked every box required for a felony violation of Section 793(f) of the federal penal code (Title 18): With lawful access to highly classified information she acted with gross negligence in removing and causing it to be removed it from its proper place of custody, and she transmitted it and caused it to be transmitted to others not authorized to have it, in patent violation of her trust. Director Comey even conceded that former Secretary Clinton was “extremely careless” and strongly suggested that her recklessness very likely led to communications (her own and those she corresponded with) being intercepted by foreign intelligence services.

FBI Rewrites Federal Law to Let Hillary Off the Hook | National Review

The problem is that the this type of stuff undetmines trust in the state and judicial system.
 

Glen Contrarian

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 21, 2013
Messages
17,688
Reaction score
8,046
Location
Bernie to the left of me, Hillary to the right, he
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
The head of the FBI has no such power to pardon. I would have no problem with Obama issuing such a pardon so long as it was conditional on HRC never seeking public office.

I didn't say he could - all he did was give a recommendation. You said the bar was now set so low...and reminded y'all of Nixon getting pardoned. And then there's Iran-Contra. Come to think of it, is there any scandal on the Democratic side since Vietnam that even comes close to Iran-Contra? I can't. Yet the Right was laughing - laughing! - at how Ollie North and all those in his chain of command who knew about it were getting away with it scot-free.

And then there's Dick Cheney's extremely illegal knowledge and cover-up of the exposure of CIA agent Valerie Plame, all because the Bush Administration was pissed at her husband.

No sir, y'all got no room to talk at all.

And I quite believe that you or any other libertarian or conservative would have "no problem" with Obama issuing such a pardon as long as she ended her run for president since it's apparent that most of you would rather have a guy who gets his information from white supremacist websites to have his hand on the nuclear button than you would allow for someone who is the most experienced candidate since Bush 41. Her real shortcoming was that she trusted her own IT people instead of the government's...which, come to think of it, sounds like an opinion that most government-distrusting conservatives and libertarians would heartily agree with.
 

Glen Contrarian

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 21, 2013
Messages
17,688
Reaction score
8,046
Location
Bernie to the left of me, Hillary to the right, he
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
This is not a pardon. This is the FBI quite literally making the case that Clinton broke the law and then doing nothing about it.

Ah. So if Obama gave her a blanket pardon for anything she did as Secretary of State, that would be fine with you, huh? Because that's what Ford did for Nixon. Nixon DID break the law, and Ford pardoned him not just for breaking the law when it came to covering up Watergate, but also for ANY OTHER CRIME he may have committed while he was POTUS.

But I get it - if a Republican does it, that means it must be okay, no big deal, nothing to see here, move along. BUT if a Democrat did it, OH HELL NO!!!!! Constitution! The LAW! FREEEEEEEEEDOM!
 

Socrates1

DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 16, 2016
Messages
2,782
Reaction score
469
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
There is no way of getting around this: According to Director James Comey (disclosure: a former colleague and longtime friend of mine), Hillary Clinton checked every box required for a felony violation of Section 793(f) of the federal penal code (Title 18): With lawful access to highly classified information she acted with gross negligence in removing and causing it to be removed it from its proper place of custody, and she transmitted it and caused it to be transmitted to others not authorized to have it, in patent violation of her trust. Director Comey even conceded that former Secretary Clinton was “extremely careless” and strongly suggested that her recklessness very likely led to communications (her own and those she corresponded with) being intercepted by foreign intelligence services.

FBI Rewrites Federal Law to Let Hillary Off the Hook | National Review

And so begins the corruption of the FBI ! Obama , the FBI and the WH spin doctors shame all honest Americans with this horrible action !
 

Glen Contrarian

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 21, 2013
Messages
17,688
Reaction score
8,046
Location
Bernie to the left of me, Hillary to the right, he
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
I don't suppose you recall that a pardon does not make the person any less guilty of the crime(s) committed. It only "forgives" them.

Meanwhile, only the head of state can issue a pardon. For Federal crimes that is the President...not the head of the FBI.

This was more of an investigator saying "move along, nothing to see here," while we are all trying to get a good look at a body with an axe in the back of it's head. :coffeepap:

I never said Comey could pardon, did I? My reply was in reference to the other guy noting how low the bar was now for high-ranking politicians. All I did was point out just how low the bar already was. Perhaps a more appropriate comparison would be Iran-Contra. Or the Valerie Plame scandal...when Dick Cheney sure as heck did know about it and apparently approved of her exposure.

No, those on the GOP and conservative side have precisely zero room to talk.
 

coldjoint

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 17, 2016
Messages
14,235
Reaction score
1,453
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Want a hanky to wipe the tears?

Don't worry, you'll still have plenty of opportunity to vote for the guy who gets information and opinion from white supremacist websites.

You know that is a lie. Why post it?
 

Glen Contrarian

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 21, 2013
Messages
17,688
Reaction score
8,046
Location
Bernie to the left of me, Hillary to the right, he
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
You know that is a lie. Why post it?

Did he or did he not get his latest "it's not a Star of David, it's really a sheriff's star" attack directly from a white supremacist website?

And while we're at it, his slogan, "America First". Guess who else is twittering hashtag-AmericaFirst? A guy named David Duke. Perhaps you should look up who else used the slogan "America First".

Really, how much does it take for y'all to get a clue that y'all have not just nominated a racist, but that racism is informing a great deal of the positions on the Right? Most Republicans aren't racist - or at least honestly don't think they're racist - but the positions they hold are strongly influenced by those same racist "negrophobes" (and their children) in the Deep South that Nixon directly courted as a part of his "Southern Strategy". Y'all's chickens, sir, are coming home to roost...but personally, I think they're closer to being a near-perpetual albatross around the neck of the GOP (if you don't know the reference, read "The Rime of the Ancient Mariner").
 

Captain Adverse

Classical Liberal Sage
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Messages
16,636
Reaction score
21,916
Location
Mid-West USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
I never said Comey could pardon, did I? My reply was in reference to the other guy noting how low the bar was now for high-ranking politicians. All I did was point out just how low the bar already was. Perhaps a more appropriate comparison would be Iran-Contra. Or the Valerie Plame scandal...when Dick Cheney sure as heck did know about it and apparently approved of her exposure.

No, those on the GOP and conservative side have precisely zero room to talk.

Why do you keep forgetting I am neither a member of the GOP, nor a "conservative" except where it comes to the Second Amendment?

Now don't try to take us on a red herring trail with comments about Iran-Contra, or Valarie Plame/Dick Cheney. I never supported Bush Jr or his policies. Nor did I ever condone Iran-contra.

Raising those issues does not detract from THIS issue.

As a serving officer of the Federal Government, Hillary broke the law, did it knowingly and willingly, and tried to hide it. Now her Party is trying to make it go away.

Saying that past President's and member's of their cabinets have gotten away with criminal behaviors neither excuses her nor them.
 
Last edited:

katzgar

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
9,517
Reaction score
1,696
Location
prairieville, LA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
That is how I saw it, anyone else who handled classified data in this way, would likely be going to prison.


no one has gone to prison for such an infraction which was part of Comeys dilemma.
 

MickeyW

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2015
Messages
14,012
Reaction score
3,439
Location
Southern Oregon
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
The problem is that the this type of stuff undermines trust in the state and judicial system.

It sure does!

And so begins the corruption of the FBI ! Obama , the FBI and the WH spin doctors shame all honest Americans with this horrible action !

No doubt about it!

Did he or did he not get his latest "it's not a Star of David, it's really a sheriff's star" attack directly from a white supremacist website?

And while we're at it, his slogan, "America First". Guess who else is twittering hashtag-AmericaFirst? A guy named David Duke. Perhaps you should look up who else used the slogan "America First".

Really, how much does it take for y'all to get a clue that y'all have not just nominated a racist, but that racism is informing a great deal of the positions on the Right? Most Republicans aren't racist - or at least honestly don't think they're racist - but the positions they hold are strongly influenced by those same racist "negrophobes" (and their children) in the Deep South that Nixon directly courted as a part of his "Southern Strategy". Y'all's chickens, sir, are coming home to roost...but personally, I think they're closer to being a near-perpetual albatross around the neck of the GOP (if you don't know the reference, read "The Rime of the Ancient Mariner").

I say it all the time as well and I've never had anything to do with White Supremacists, other than arrest them.

And that is NOT a Star of David, on Trump's website.
 

MickeyW

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2015
Messages
14,012
Reaction score
3,439
Location
Southern Oregon
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Why do you keep forgetting I am neither a member of the GOP, nor a "conservative" except where it comes to the Second Amendment?

Now don't try to take us on a red herring trail with comments about Iran-Contra, or Valarie Plame/Dick Cheney. I never supported Bush Jr or his policies. Nor did I ever condone Iran-contra.

Raising those issues does not detract from THIS issue.

As a serving officer of the Federal Government, Hillary broke the law, did it knowingly and willingly, and tried to hide it. Now her Party is trying to make it go away.

Saying that past President's and member's of their cabinets have gotten away with criminal behaviors neither excuses her nor them.

I fully agree!

no one has gone to prison for such an infraction which was part of Comeys dilemma.

I bet David Petraeus is pissed thou...
 
Top Bottom