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FBI: No evidence the Orlando killer was gay or used gay apps

Ontologuy said:
Omar Mateen was also bipolar.

His father, a fundamentalist Muslim and Taliban supporter, spoke frequently about homosexuality being stone-to-death worthy.

Omar Mateen kept his homosexuality closeted from his father.

Omar Mateen's wife "encouraged" Omar to "take action".

Omar Mateen's low self-image and coming at a time when he was rising from the depressed to the manic stage, the most likely time to commit suicide for a bipolar sufferer ..

.. All of this factors into the cause of the terrible event.

It's not good to make politics of this.

Just because a fundamentalist religious reference played a role, that does not make it "terrorism".

For it to be terrorism, an organization that advocates and practices mass killing of innocents to make a statement must have had a direct hand in this.

Simply approving of it or being spoken of positively by the perpetrator does not mean such an organization was truly involved.

It appears Mateen acted independently of such an organization.

But let's let the investigation unfold.

And be reverent toward the victims.
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nicely put
 
Tanngrisnir said:
People (men) are now coming forward who claim to have slept with him.
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oh you mean that anonymous coward "miguel" who has no proof of even meeting him?

the only evidence i've seen is people turning their phones in that show conversation only on some apps
 
Absentglare said:
Well, it still isn't an act of ISIS terrorism without ISIS being involved.

Let's suppose that Mateen didn't mention ISIS. Let's say he blamed the attack on the KKK. He attacked the gay nightclub because he pledged allegiance to the KKK.

Would his pledge alone draw a necessary relationship to the KKK ?
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You really should google the definition of terrorism, instead of debating on what you think it should mean.

And someone could attack a gay club with allegiance to the kkk, but the kkk allegiance would not make it terrorist, his own actions would.
 
It's shocking that the liberal elite that run the media would want to throw sand in our eyes with this misdirection. Almost worked, and it will STILL work with the 20% of the people who are desperate to ignore our war with Islam. They will believe it even after the lie has been proven and well broadcast through the collective by our most credible voices (AKA NOT owned by the corporate class....obviously).


THey will believe anything that gets them to where their fantasy wants to go.


:sarcasticclap
 
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Tanngrisnir said:
And? "They also cautioned that the investigation is ongoing and that nothing has formally been ruled out."
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no, they specifically said that "miguel" was "not credible", which anyone who isn't eager to deduce a crime of passion can see, with his lunatic theory of it being a hate crime against puerto ricans, oh and the fact that "miguel" himself wasn't targeted. Kind of a lousy way of revenge against an ex lover
 
tres borrachos said:
The left was hoping he was gay so they could use it as a motive for what....advancing their "gay on gay crime" agenda that we've heard so much about?
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Actually, the gay angle doesn't promote the wishes of left politics. If the Orlando shooter's gayness caused him shame and caused a need to react violently, what would cause him to react violently to his gayness? American culture? Not hardly. Muslim culture? For example, his wife or father? Bingo. This wouldn't be a starter for political dialogue from the left. No one could absolutely blame traditional American culture for his outrages.
 
chromium said:
If he watched as much KKK propaganda as he did of ISIS jihad insanity prior to the attack, if he grew up with a racist parent who instilled white supremacy to the extent he celebrated the charleston massacre the way he did the 9/11 attacks, yes

it's their ideology and if they don't want to be complicit, they can drop it
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Oh? How much ISIS propaganda do you think he watched ?

You're right, his dad was an extremist. But, then ... His dad is the one who DIDN'T go on a shooting spree. So there's that gaping hole to explain.
 
beerftw said:
You really should google the definition of terrorism, instead of debating on what you think it should mean.

And someone could attack a gay club with allegiance to the kkk, but the kkk allegiance would not make it terrorist, his own actions would.
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I wasn't quibbling over the definition of terrorism. I was explaining that concluding this was an act of Islamic terrorism, associated with ISIS, requires a leap of faith.

This is obviously terrorism whether he hated gays (you know, the demographic he targeted) or was just religious (even though the religion would only be motivation for the hatred of gays, anyway).
 
_Sal said:
nicely put
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I would bet someone could question Bin Ladens' state of mind. After all he was a sick man. Diabetes was killing him. I guess he wasn't a terrorist either.

They both learned from the same book. It is ridiculous to think it is anything but Islamic influenced, or inspired if you prefer. Excuses save very little, if any lives at all.
 
Absentglare said:
I wasn't quibbling over the definition of terrorism. I was explaining that concluding this was an act of Islamic terrorism, associated with ISIS, requires a leap of faith.

This is obviously terrorism whether he hated gays (you know, the demographic he targeted) or was just religious (even though the religion would only be motivation for the hatred of gays, anyway).
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I can agree terrorism be terrorism, regaurdless of islamic, christian, atheist, or radical my little pony supporters. I believe it was radical islam, but that the isis tie was not it, rather he was radical for one reason or another, and ended up using isis to either justify his position or to embolden it with a well known name.
 
Absentglare said:
Oh? How much ISIS propaganda do you think he watched ?
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"A hell of a lot of jihadist propaganda" according to one FBI official.

The FBI director has said that the agency is "highly confident" that his radicalization was brought about to at least some extent by viewing extremism on the internet.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
It's shocking that the liberal elite that run the media would want to throw sand in our eyes with this misdirection.
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What's not shocking at all is that you'd actually believe the 'liberal elite' has tried to do that.
 
Absentglare said:
Oh? How much ISIS propaganda do you think he watched ?

You're right, his dad was an extremist. But, then ... His dad is the one who DIDN'T go on a shooting spree. So there's that gaping hole to explain.
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i never claimed there is only 1 factor. Obviously mental problems, but such weapons as the killer used weren't so readily available for immigrants like his dad in the 1980s either, nor did the internet exist:

"Investigators are "highly confident" the gunman was self-radicalized through the internet, Comey said....

According to one official, analysis of Mateen's electronic devices showed searches for jihadist propaganda, including videos of ISIS beheading videos and of Anwar al-Awlaki -- an influential American-born imam who worked as a spokesman for al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula and was killed in 2011.

"He consumed a hell of a lot of jihadist propaganda" online, the source said."


Without this indoctrination, he would not have targeted a gay club and most likely not have attacked anyone. Religious extremism such as ISIS incites plenty of violence. Just look how they spend a sunday afternoon and that should be obvious. Did he make actual contact? He went to mecca twice, but probably not, but then he didn't have to. It's naive to think that extremist propaganda can't cross borders
 
chromium said:
no, they specifically said that "miguel" was "not credible", which anyone who isn't eager to deduce a crime of passion can see, with his lunatic theory of it being a hate crime against puerto ricans, oh and the fact that "miguel" himself wasn't targeted. Kind of a lousy way of revenge against an ex lover
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A. He chose the nightclub and was apparently angry at some Puerto Ricans, not that individual in question.
B. You haven't demonstrated that it's a 'lunatic theory'
C. They didn't say anything specific about Migueul.
D. Please try and calm down and know what you're talking about before actually talking.
 
tanngrisnir said:
what's not shocking at all is that you'd actually believe the 'liberal elite' has tried to do that.
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the invasion of iraq.

Selling of.

EDIT: We can add almost a year of them telling us that there was no recession when we all knew there was, because that is what the government wanted them to say.
 
Tanngrisnir said:
A. He chose the nightclub and was apparently angry at some Puerto Ricans, not that individual in question.
B. You haven't demonstrated that it's a 'lunatic theory'
C. They didn't say anything specific about Migueul.
D. Please try and calm down and know what you're talking about before actually talking.
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A. Please come up with some evidence other than total hearsay from an anonymous coward that is worthy of only tabloid trash
 
Tanngrisnir said:
A. He chose the nightclub and was apparently angry at some Puerto Ricans, not that individual in question.
B. You haven't demonstrated that it's a 'lunatic theory'
C. They didn't say anything specific about Migueul.
D. Please try and calm down and know what you're talking about before actually talking.
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How in the world is anyone going to prove the Miguel story in the first place?
 
coldjoint said:
I would bet someone could question Bin Ladens' state of mind. After all he was a sick man. Diabetes was killing him. I guess he wasn't a terrorist either.

They both learned from the same book. It is ridiculous to think it is anything but Islamic influenced, or inspired if you prefer. Excuses save very little, if any lives at all.
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you are seriously comparing him to Bin Laden?

if so, you are displaying serious comprehension problems

also your tendency to say "excuses" to sum up any explanation which differs from you shows you have an agenda and are closed to other possibilities

that is your right but it will never lead to truth and understanding of a situation...in order to prevent further such situations understanding is critical
 
chromium said:
A. Please come up with some evidence other than total hearsay from an anonymous coward that is worthy of only tabloid trash
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If it's his direct statements, it's not hearsay, and Univision isn't the equivalent of 'tabloid trash'.

You seem almost palpably desperate to discredit anything that doesn't square exactly with your self-created narrative.

Bummer.
 
Henrin said:
How in the world is anyone going to prove the Miguel story in the first place?
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I don't know. It would be more credible if more people came forward with accounts of a relationship with him, but there will never be much physical evidence in cases like this.

He was closeted, and tried all he could to hide these activities, if they indeed occured, from everyone in his life except other gay men.
 
The lefts pyramid of identity politics is on display with muslims clearly on top of gays. They'd rather the killer be gay instead of muslim. What a putrid ideology of identity and where it leads. It reminds me of when that Salon writer said he hoped the Boston bombers turned out to be white.
 
beerftw said:
I can agree terrorism be terrorism, regaurdless of islamic, christian, atheist, or radical my little pony supporters. I believe it was radical islam, but that the isis tie was not it, rather he was radical for one reason or another, and ended up using isis to either justify his position or to embolden it with a well known name.
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That could very well be. I'm sure that the conflict between Islam and homosexuality played a role, i'm simply uncertain how significant that role was here.
 
Do you have to be secretly gay to hate gays? When did anyone say that? He could have just hated gays and lesbians as well as been radicalized, as well as been a typical psychopathic mass murder. What would be stupid is to say he is just a Muslim terrorist, nothing more to see here. Similarly it would be stupid to say he is just a self loathing closet gay, nothing more to see here.

What it looks like so far, and there is far more work to be done with the investigation, is the guy fits the typical profile of a mass shooter, that had a hatred of gays and lesbians, and that was self radicalized and wanted to attribute his murderous actions to ISIS. In the end it will probably be seen as a hate crime as well as an act of terrorism.
 
chromium said:
i never claimed there is only 1 factor. Obviously mental problems, but such weapons as the killer used weren't so readily available for immigrants like his dad in the 1980s either, nor did the internet exist:

"Investigators are "highly confident" the gunman was self-radicalized through the internet, Comey said....

According to one official, analysis of Mateen's electronic devices showed searches for jihadist propaganda, including videos of ISIS beheading videos and of Anwar al-Awlaki -- an influential American-born imam who worked as a spokesman for al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula and was killed in 2011.

"He consumed a hell of a lot of jihadist propaganda" online, the source said."


Without this indoctrination, he would not have targeted a gay club and most likely not have attacked anyone. Religious extremism such as ISIS incites plenty of violence. Just look how they spend a sunday afternoon and that should be obvious. Did he make actual contact? He went to mecca twice, but probably not, but then he didn't have to. It's naive to think that extremist propaganda can't cross borders
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Comey did say that, but that doesn't then mean that his radicalization was the primary cause of the attack.

I think we both agree that serious mental issues were at play.

This isn't someone who has been feeding off of ISIS propaganda since birth, this is someone who was born and raised in America.
 
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