• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

FBI knew of plot to execute Occupy Activists but did nothing

Is this the way you expected NSA and PRISM to operate?


  • Total voters
    3
  • Poll closed .

DaveFagan

Iconoclast
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 20, 2011
Messages
10,090
Reaction score
5,056
Location
wny
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Conservative
FBI Knew of Plot to Execute Occupy Activists but Did Nothing | NationofChange
"Would you be shocked to learn that the FBI apparently knew that some organization, perhaps even a law enforcement agency or private security outfit, had contingency plans to assassinate peaceful protestors in a major American city — and did nothing to intervene?" "He notes, correctly, that in documents obtained from the FBI and Homeland Security by the PCJF’s FOIA search, the Occupy Movement is classed as a “terrorist” activity.
Ironically, while the Occupy Movement was actually peaceful, the FBI, at best, was simply standing aside while some organization plotted to assassinate the movement’s prominent activists.
The FBI’s stonewalling response to inquiries about this story, and the agency’s evident failure to take any action regarding a known deadly threat to Occupy protesters in Houston, will likely make protesters at future demonstrations look differently at the sniper-rifle equipped law-enforcement personnel often seen on rooftops during such events. What are they there for? Who are the threats they are looking for and potentially targeting? Who are they protecting? And are they using “suppressed” sniper rifles? Would this indicate they have no plans to take responsibility for any shots silently fired? Or that they plan to frame someone else?"
The Wonderful American World of Informers and Agents Provocateurs | NationofChange
"Some intriguing bits about informers and agents provocateurs briefly made it into the public spotlight when Occupy Wall Street was riding high. But as always, dots need connecting. Here is a preliminary attempt to sort out some patterns behind what could be the next big story about government surveillance and provocation in America." "

The evening before May Day 2012,
a rump Occupy group
marched out of San Francisco’s Dolores Park and into the Mission District, a neighborhood where not so many 1-percenters live, work, or shop. There, they proceeded to trash “mom and pop shops, local boutiques and businesses, and cars,” according to Scott Rossi, a medic and eyewitness, who summed his feelings up this way afterward: “We were hijacked.” The people “leading the march tonight,” he added, were
“clean cut, athletic, commanding, gravitas not borne of charisma but of testosterone and intimidation. They were decked out in outfits typically attributed to those in the ‘black bloc’ spectrum of tactics, yet their clothes were too new, and something was just off about them. They were very combative and nearly physically violent with the livestreamers on site, and got ignorant with me, a medic, when I intervened... I didn’t recognize any of these people. Their eyes were too angry, their mouths were too severe. They felt ‘military’ if that makes sense. Something just wasn’t right about them on too many levels.”
He was quick to add, “I’m not one of those tin foil hat conspiracy theorists. I don’t subscribe to those theories that Queen Elizabeth’s Reptilian slave driver masters run the Fed. I’ve read up on agents provocateurs and plants and that sort of thing and I have to say that, without a doubt, I believe 100% that the people that started tonight’s events in the Mission were exactly that.”
Taken aback, Occupy San Francisco condemned the sideshow: “We consider these acts of vandalism and violence a brutal assault on our community and the 99%.”"
Through 2011, 508 defendants in the U.S. were prosecuted in what the Department of Justice calls “terrorism-related cases.” According to Mother Jones’s Trevor Aaronson, the FBI ran sting operations that “resulted in prosecutions against 158 defendants” -- about one-third of the total. “Of that total, 49 defendants participated in plots led by an agent provocateur -- an FBI operative instigating terrorist action. With three exceptions, all of the high-profile domestic terror plots of the last decade were actually FBI stings.”
In Cleveland, on May Day of 2012, in the words of a Rolling Stone exposé, the FBI “turned five stoner misfits into the world's most hapless terrorist cell.” To do this, the FBI put a deeply indebted, convicted bank robber and bad-check passer on their payroll, and hooked him up with an arms dealer, also paid by the Bureau. The FBI undercover man then hustled five wacked-out wannabe anarchists into procuring what they thought was enough C4 plastic explosive to build bombs they thought would blow up a bridge. The bombs were, of course, dummies. The five were arrested and await trial."

Did you know these issues are where the NSA and PRISM intersect with our daily lives.
Are these rogue agencies?
Is this anti-terrorism or oppression?
Are we being swallowed up by the Corporatocracy?
Is this the contemporary USA way?
Does it make you proud?
Now that you know, do you wish you didn't?
 
Last edited:

ecofarm

global liberation
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 4, 2010
Messages
120,537
Reaction score
35,596
Location
Miami
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
"a rump Occupy group"?
 

roguenuke

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
47,641
Reaction score
16,892
Location
Rolesville, NC
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
Nothing in that said that there was no plan in place to stop the <Deleted> (assuming that is some group/party) from carrying out their plan at all. That was very vague and in no way says what you are claiming, that the FBI knew about an possible attack planned and did not plan to stop it. Most of the assumptions were nonsensical and appear to come from paranoia and experiences based around watching TV/movies.

And it certainly does not indicate at all that it was government officials or even private security organizations. If this were being planned by anyone the government approved of, had a connection to, or the government itself, it certainly would not have been knowledge made available via the FOIA. It would have been well hidden.
 

DaveFagan

Iconoclast
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 20, 2011
Messages
10,090
Reaction score
5,056
Location
wny
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Conservative
Nothing in that said that there was no plan in place to stop the <Deleted> (assuming that is some group/party) from carrying out their plan at all. That was very vague and in no way says what you are claiming, that the FBI knew about an possible attack planned and did not plan to stop it. Most of the assumptions were nonsensical and appear to come from paranoia and experiences based around watching TV/movies.

And it certainly does not indicate at all that it was government officials or even private security organizations. If this were being planned by anyone the government approved of, had a connection to, or the government itself, it certainly would not have been knowledge made available via the FOIA. It would have been well hidden.


So the FOIA documents are forged?? The ones they got from the gov't.
 

roguenuke

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
47,641
Reaction score
16,892
Location
Rolesville, NC
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
So the FOIA documents are forged?? The ones they got from the gov't.

No. I'm saying there was nothing nearly as "nefarious" in that document that it is being made out to be. There was no government plot, or even hard evidence of a legitimate civilian terrorist threat from that document. Maybe they were looking into it and the person/group planning it realized how ridiculous the movement was, so they canceled their own plans because it wasn't worth it. Maybe they got the guy/group on something bigger. Or maybe the guy/group was discovered to make absurd plots/plans against all sorts of groups and none were really legitimate, only sounded like that at first.
 

DaveFagan

Iconoclast
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 20, 2011
Messages
10,090
Reaction score
5,056
Location
wny
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Conservative
No. I'm saying there was nothing nearly as "nefarious" in that document that it is being made out to be. There was no government plot, or even hard evidence of a legitimate civilian terrorist threat from that document. Maybe they were looking into it and the person/group planning it realized how ridiculous the movement was, so they canceled their own plans because it wasn't worth it. Maybe they got the guy/group on something bigger. Or maybe the guy/group was discovered to make absurd plots/plans against all sorts of groups and none were really legitimate, only sounded like that at first.

"But don’t take our word for it. Here’s what the document obtained from the Houston FBI, said:

I don't see ambiguity or nuance in the quote below. Keep in mind we are discussing a response to peaceful protesters, not terrorists.
An identified [DELETED] as of October planned to engage in sniper attacks against protestors (sic) in Houston, Texas if deemed necessary. An identified [DELETED] had received intelligence that indicated the protesters in New York and Seattle planned similar protests in Houston, Dallas, San Antonio and Austin, Texas. [DELETED] planned to gather intelligence against the leaders of the protest groups and obtain photographs, then formulate a plan to kill the leadership via suppressed sniper rifles. (Note: protests continued throughout the weekend with approximately 6000 persons in NYC. ‘Occupy Wall Street’ protests have spread to about half of all states in the US, over a dozen European and Asian cities, including protests in Cleveland (10/6-8/11) at Willard Park which was initially attended by hundreds of protesters.)"
 

roguenuke

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
47,641
Reaction score
16,892
Location
Rolesville, NC
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
"But don’t take our word for it. Here’s what the document obtained from the Houston FBI, said:

I don't see ambiguity or nuance in the quote below. Keep in mind we are discussing a response to peaceful protesters, not terrorists.
An identified [DELETED] as of October planned to engage in sniper attacks against protestors (sic) in Houston, Texas if deemed necessary. An identified [DELETED] had received intelligence that indicated the protesters in New York and Seattle planned similar protests in Houston, Dallas, San Antonio and Austin, Texas. [DELETED] planned to gather intelligence against the leaders of the protest groups and obtain photographs, then formulate a plan to kill the leadership via suppressed sniper rifles. (Note: protests continued throughout the weekend with approximately 6000 persons in NYC. ‘Occupy Wall Street’ protests have spread to about half of all states in the US, over a dozen European and Asian cities, including protests in Cleveland (10/6-8/11) at Willard Park which was initially attended by hundreds of protesters.)"

Yes, I read it. It does not provide nearly enough information to conclude that any coverup, government plot, or anything else nefarious was going on. Reading this document and concluding such things were happening requires a mentality that automatically jumps to "government plot" with the barest information.

There was no plot. This sounds like a conspiracy theory, not a valid assessment of that document. That document to me sounds like they were investigating a third party that was planning to attack the OWS in Houston that simply didn't need further investigating for whatever reason.
 

DaveFagan

Iconoclast
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 20, 2011
Messages
10,090
Reaction score
5,056
Location
wny
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Conservative
Yes, I read it. It does not provide nearly enough information to conclude that any coverup, government plot, or anything else nefarious was going on. Reading this document and concluding such things were happening requires a mentality that automatically jumps to "government plot" with the barest information.

There was no plot. This sounds like a conspiracy theory, not a valid assessment of that document. That document to me sounds like they were investigating a third party that was planning to attack the OWS in Houston that simply didn't need further investigating for whatever reason.


And you don't feel that the FBI or Houston police should have warned the Occupy potential targets of the threat. They are supposed to protect the citizens.
 

roguenuke

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
47,641
Reaction score
16,892
Location
Rolesville, NC
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
And you don't feel that the FBI or Houston police should have warned the Occupy potential targets of the threat. They are supposed to protect the citizens.

It would be insane to warn every single group/person that has ever been potentially targeted by another group/person. It would cause panic and possibly mess up any investigation going on. Plus, it could easily lead to false accusations and retaliations, or complicating a situation further.
 

DaveFagan

Iconoclast
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 20, 2011
Messages
10,090
Reaction score
5,056
Location
wny
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Conservative
It would be insane to warn every single group/person that has ever been potentially targeted by another group/person. It would cause panic and possibly mess up any investigation going on. Plus, it could easily lead to false accusations and retaliations, or complicating a situation further.


First, I am in complete agreement with the Occupy protesters and feel we should not have bailed out the Bankers. Second, the FBI and Police were tracking the Protesters in collusion with the Big Bankers and their fusion networks. Us against them and the Police should be on the citizens side, not the Corporate side. I consider the police derelict for not warning the threatened citizens. NSA and PRISM analysis is where the emails and communications were grabbed to collect info on the leaderless Occupy movement. Peaceful protesters objecting to the waste of trillions of our tax dollars to bail out "too big to fail banks." Let them fail. We'll all be up the creek together.
 

DaveFagan

Iconoclast
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 20, 2011
Messages
10,090
Reaction score
5,056
Location
wny
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Conservative
Yes, I read it. It does not provide nearly enough information to conclude that any coverup, government plot, or anything else nefarious was going on. Reading this document and concluding such things were happening requires a mentality that automatically jumps to "government plot" with the barest information.

There was no plot. This sounds like a conspiracy theory, not a valid assessment of that document. That document to me sounds like they were investigating a third party that was planning to attack the OWS in Houston that simply didn't need further investigating for whatever reason.


Truthfully, what offends me most in this scenario is the alignment of the Intelligence Agencies with Big Corporate against the citizens. It is supposed to be "of the people, by the people, and for the people," and this clearly is the opposite and it is nothing new in our Nation. Charlie Chaplin was blackballed in the USA for making fun of Corporate factory labor and nothing has changed. We don't owe Corporate America anything. They have been blessed with the opportunity to do business in the USA and must pay their own way as regards security, resources, energy, and other basic needs. Instead, we are expected to kiss their sweet patooties because they allegedly provide jobs. As those jobs relate to the current World, the Corporations are loyal to the strong currency and are unpatriotically setting up shop overseas for better profits. So, why are our Intelligence Agencies protecting them? I think that they should be protecting you.l
 
Top Bottom