Fathers disappear from households

[MaggieD]

Count me among those who are thrilled for every child who has even one loving and competent parent. Such a blessing to have two, gay or straight. But even if you call them "Parent 1" and "Parent 2," "mother" and "father" aren't interchangeable roles. Children do need manhood and womanhood modeled for them. I strove with all my might to be all things to my children, but what I wasn't able to do was be a father for them.

My girlfriend recognized this when her son was little...she tried to find him mentors in Scouts and tried to get his father to interact with him much more than he did. (He supported his two kids well, but didn't see them much.) She did the best she could...my husband being one of his role models. Loving parents do the best they can. It's all anyone can ask.

 

[nota bene]

My girlfriend recognized this when her son was little...she tried to find him mentors in Scouts and tried to get his father to interact with him much more than he did. (He supported his two kids well, but didn't see them much.) She did the best she could...my husband being one of his role models. Loving parents do the best they can. It's all anyone can ask.

Yes, I was always on the lookout for mentors too. Funny you should write what you just did; I texted those very words to my daughter last night. That's all we can do is our very best. Sometimes, sigh, it's not enough.

 

[tech30528]

It takes both to make them, not to raise them. The reality is there are plenty of same sex couples who raise children who turn out just as good as those raised by heterosexual couples. And that is true regardless of whether or not you allow same sex couples to marry, and will remain true regardless of whether or not you allow same sex couples to marry. As such, the ONLY people you hurt when you deny same sex couples the right to marry are the CHILDREN. Because they are denied the same opportunity of having the stability that institution provides through the rights and protections that are bestowed upon it that children who are raised by heterosexual couples enjoy. So don't even play the "I care about the children" card because clearly you are ignoring reality.



Single parenthood is often bad because it means half the income and half the attention. People like yourself who try to turn it into a gender issue are simply ignoring the facts and reality. Stop pretending that gender is more important that things like income and attention when it comes to raising children. It makes it sound like you believe an abusive and neglectful heterosexual couple would be better parents than a loving same sex couple just because the former has parents of the opposite sex. Does that really make sense to you or are you man enough to admit that you are oversimplifying the issue?

You are wrong.

Sorry, but that's the simplest way to put it. Children need a male and a female role model in order to be emotionally complete. You may be able to get close, but you will fall short of that.

 

[CriticalThought]

You are wrong.

Sorry, but that's the simplest way to put it. Children need a male and a female role model in order to be emotionally complete. You may be able to get close, but you will fall short of that.

I started a new thread. You are free to debate me there on the issue.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/sex-and-sexuality/147160-same-sex-couples-and-children.html

And am I right to assume that you are arguing this young man is emotionally incomplete?



Yeah...I don't think so. You might want to give your assumptions about family a bit more thought.

 

[Alyssa]

They are not the same.

I am not “attack[ing] homosexuality on religious grounds”. I am condemning an acceptance of evil and immorality that attacks the very foundation of stable society, and brings harm upon all of us who are part of this society. This is not “religious bigotry” any more than it would be “religious bigotry” to condemn murder or theft or drug abuse or any other activity that is harmful to society.

And it is certainly not, in any way, comparable to the genuine religious bigotry that my ancestors endured, nor to the milder religious bigotry that you now demonstrate under the dishonest guise of “tolerance”.

How do homosexuals harm society?

I fervently agree with all you said and would add only that a girl who grows up without a father is at an terrible disadvantage too.

well they need to get over it. At least so I've been told.

 

[longknife]

CHART: America's Disappearing Fathers

by directorblue at Doug Ross Journal blog.

Truly tragic: A Washington Times piece @ Fathers disappear from households across America - Washington Times gives us the following:

In every state, the portion of families where children have two parents, rather than one, has dropped significantly over the past decade. Even as the country added 160,000 families with children, the number of two-parent households decreased by 1.2 million. Fifteen million U.S. children, or 1 in 3, live without a father, and nearly 5 million live without a mother. In 1960, just 11 percent of American children lived in homes without fathers...

Read more at the link. We wonder about youth violence and drug use and ignore the break up of families. It is unnatural to have single parent families. We are genetically divided into man and woman with traits that make for successful propagation. To ignore this results in the type of society we see being created.

 

[tech30528]

I started a new thread. You are free to debate me there on the issue.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/sex-and-sexuality/147160-same-sex-couples-and-children.html

And am I right to assume that you are arguing this young man is emotionally incomplete?



Yeah...I don't think so. You might want to give your assumptions about family a bit more thought.

I'm not going to argue with you about it. This isn't the kind of issue we can resolve in this setting. Anybody (and everybody) can put up a clip of someone, a snapshot of who they are, and assume whatever they like based on that. I'm not a mental health professional, in fact before I went to a therapist myself I thought it was all crap. It's not. I'd recommend it to anybody. There is a good reason they start with a family history.

The first time I went in we started with this history. Nothing specific, like a basic family tree, what people did for a living, marriage histories, education levels, stuff like that. Within 15 minutes the counselor says "let me tell you what it was like growing up in your home" and proceeded to lay out my childhood in erie detail. Kind of creeped me out actually. So in the second session when she told me that I was the source of most of our problems I went with it. I'm glad I did. As it turns out these things are quite predictable and not that much of a mystery at all.

 

[Jredbaron96]

Children need a male and a female role model in order to be emotionally complete.

Your proof?

 

[CriticalThought]

I'm not going to argue with you about it. This isn't the kind of issue we can resolve in this setting. Anybody (and everybody) can put up a clip of someone, a snapshot of who they are, and assume whatever they like based on that. I'm not a mental health professional, in fact before I went to a therapist myself I thought it was all crap. It's not. I'd recommend it to anybody. There is a good reason they start with a family history.

The first time I went in we started with this history. Nothing specific, like a basic family tree, what people did for a living, marriage histories, education levels, stuff like that. Within 15 minutes the counselor says "let me tell you what it was like growing up in your home" and proceeded to lay out my childhood in erie detail. Kind of creeped me out actually. So in the second session when she told me that I was the source of most of our problems I went with it. I'm glad I did. As it turns out these things are quite predictable and not that much of a mystery at all.

I'll give you one guess what I do for a living.

 

[tech30528]

I'll give you one guess what I do for a living.

I suspect you are going to tell me you work in mental health. If that is the case you should know better.

 

[CriticalThought]

I suspect you are going to tell me you work in mental health. If that is the case you should know better.

Yup. Because a mental health professional bases their judgement on evidence. Such as this...

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/109/2/339.full
Lesbian & Gay Parenting: Theoretical & Conceptual Examinations Related to Lesbian & Gay Parenting
http://www.cpa.ca/cpasite/userfiles...les Position Statement - October 2006 (1).pdf
http://www.psychology.org.au/Assets/Files/LGBT-Families-Lit-Review.pdf
http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/general/2010/10/27/amicus29.pdf
Study: Same-Sex Parents Raise Well-Adjusted Kids
What happens to kids raised by gay parents?

The Canadian Psychological Association, the Austrailian Psychological Association, the American Pediatric Asssociation, the American Psychological Association, the National Association of Social Workers, the American Sociological Association, etc. all officially recognize that same sex couples can raise children that turn out just as well as those raised by heterosexual couples.

But I find that for laymen, anecdotal evidence has more impact, hence the video.

 

[roguenuke]

Count me among those who are thrilled for every child who has even one loving and competent parent. Such a blessing to have two, gay or straight. But even if you call them "Parent 1" and "Parent 2," "mother" and "father" aren't interchangeable roles. Children do need manhood and womanhood modeled for them. I strove with all my might to be all things to my children, but what I wasn't able to do was be a father for them.

Why not? What exactly can a father do that you couldn't? And was it because of your gender or because of your lack of experience in certain areas? Was there no one else to provide that role for your children had they not had a "father" for whatever reasons?

 

[cpwill]

Why not? What exactly can a father do that you couldn't?

Be a father? Teach a son how to be a man? Teach a daughter how she should expect men to treat her?

 

[cpwill]

A man who grows up without a father is at a disadvantage as a father. It's a cyclical problem, and one that individuals can change. Saying that men bail on their kids due to societal expectation is a cop out. A man who bails on his kids is not a man at all. I faced divorce myself at one point but couldn't go thru with it because I couldn't do that to my son regardless of custody. Instead my wife and I found a good therapist (who is still a friend) and worked out our issues.

You know what we discovered? That most of our issues (even though we thought it was financial) were my fault, caused but an upbringing by an emotionally defunct father who himself grew up without a mother (died when he was 14) and with a bitter alcoholic father. I sucked it up, took responsibility and learned to overcome it. The solutions are not always easy. Doing the right thing sometimes comes at a personal cost, but that's life.


BTW men glorifying the lifestyle of fathering children and then not taking responsibility for them is an effort to forgive themselves for poor behavior by convincing others to do the same. Notice that pop culture icons who propagate this lifestyle are overly flamboyant in the way they dress and behave and often engage in other self destructive behavior. This is not because they are happy. It is because they are incomplete and turn to outward expression to try and fill the void. It doesn't work.

I wish I could like this a thousand times.

 

[wolfie]

I wish I could like this a thousand times.

We have a cult in England...white girls becoming pregnant with Jamaican/African guys..who abandon these women very quickly..and leave a whole generation of confused mixed race children..

 

[Mathematician]

Be a father? Teach a son how to be a man? Teach a daughter how she should expect men to treat her?

The American society's depreciation in the value of gender roles is one of many heading in the wrong direction. It is both a cause and effect of other values on the decline. Just like how tools are much more effective when you use them for their intended purpose, society is much more harmonious when men and women realize their differences, reason as to why, and then apply them.

 

[nota bene]

Why not? What exactly can a father do that you couldn't? And was it because of your gender or because of your lack of experience in certain areas? Was there no one else to provide that role for your children had they not had a "father" for whatever reasons?

What can a father do that I couldn't? Be a father.

 

[ecofarm]

What can a father do that I couldn't? Be a father.

So superficial. Really?

 

[nota bene]

So superficial. Really?

Not superficial, simple. You don't have kids yourself, do you?

 

[cpwill]

Not superficial, simple. You don't have kids yourself, do you?

Nah, I think he's childless.

I have two boys. I can tell the difference in what I and my wife both offer them in terms of parenting. They need a father.

 

[ecofarm]

So now we gotta be a parent to talk about parenting?

Father is a role. Don't give me this crap about having a penis changing what a person can and cannot do. There's Mr. Mom and there can be Ms. Dad. It's a matter of expected roles.

Really, if someone can't handle the father role, it's because they are inclined to the other pole in this false dichotomy. Putting a banana in their pants is not gonna change anything.

 

[nota bene]

I will leave it to the fathers here to explain what this means. And before anyone with an agenda chimes in, I want to be plain that in my opinion and observations, whether gay or straight, only a man can be a father.

 

[wolfie]

I will leave it to the fathers here to explain what this means. And before anyone with an agenda chimes in, I want to be plain that in my opinion and observations, whether gay or straight, only a man can be a father.

My partner had no interest in his children...until I left him..he suddenly decided that he couldn't live without them...they were used as weapons...

 

[nota bene]

My partner had no interest in his children...until I left him..he suddenly decided that he couldn't live without them...they were used as weapons...

Sadly, this does happen. And some mothers use the kids as pawns too. Not all parents are honorable in their needs and behaviors; they were individuals before they were parents, and some never grew up. Different issue.

I think ecofarm is mistaken at least in part. On one level, I'm sorry, but it really is about genitals. It's not just about "roles," which are social constructs; it's also about biological differences including hormones.

 

[wolfie]

Sadly, this does happen. And some mothers use the kids as pawns too. Not all parents are honorable in their needs and behaviors; they were individuals before they were parents, and some never grew up. Different issue.

I think ecofarm is mistaken at least in part. On one level, I'm sorry, but it really is about genitals. It's not just about "roles," which are social constructs; it's also about biological differences including hormones.

I never used my kids as pawns..I just wanted them to be safe..and yes it is about genitals...my youngest son recently found his father on Facebook..and decided never to contact him...