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Faster *****cat is....faster

What if...?

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I'll put this here, as I think this is a philosophical point.

I've noticed here over the past year many instances of what I call "The Fallacy of the Faster *****cat".

This was a mistake I made when I was much younger that led to unpleasantness more than once.

Simply put, some people are born more "capable" than others. Intelligence, charisma, looks, all confer advantages to those born with these traits over those who aren't.

What is easy for me (or you) may not be anywhere near as easy for someone else.

The way this manifests here is where those who obviously are in the "faster *****cat" subset assume that what they have accomplished can be accomplished by EVERYONE else if they just do as they did.

This is simply not the case. But I've seen a lot of intelligent, competent people get FURIOUS with others because they can't keep up, can't understand what is SIMPLE for THEM.

All things being equal, all people are not equal.

I've always been able to find work, regardless of the state of the economy, for instance. I have a HUGE skillset now, but this was true back before I had ANY skills to speak of. I'm very smart, not hideous, and possess a certain degree of charisma. I learn new things VERY quickly.

Does this make me "better" than others? No. No more than being able to run faster or lift more weight than another person makes them "better" than anyone else.

But in a race, the faster is will always win.

In a weightlifting contest, the strongest will always win.

(And I'm not referring to advantages that come from training or edcation, only those that result from the genetic roll of the dice, in these examples)

And the smart, attractive, charismatic person will virtually always win in economic competition over the less smart, less attractive, less charismatic person. "Drive" being equal.

My point is that far too many arguments here that revolve around issues of "fairness" and equality of opportunity and outcome from those in the faster *****cat class assume that all *****cats could run at the same speed if they just educated themselves and tried harder.

I don't believe this viewpoint is accurate as applied to the real world because people simply aren't born equally ABLED.

The "quick" kid and the "slow" kid are not going to have equal outcomes, even if their opportunities are equal. Doesn't mean we should intentionally damage the quick kids brain, just not get so "mad" when the slower kid can't "keep up".

So what do y'all think?

Do you agree that sometimes those of us who have no problem competing expect too much from those who are less well equipped?

We all know people who really try but just can't keep up. Is it ok for us to dismiss them as "lazy"? Tell them what we did that worked for us and then judge them ill if it doesn't work for them?

What are your thoughts on this?
 

1Perry

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It's too generic of an arguement. Some are incapable or less capable and some are lazy.
 

Cephus

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It's not that everyone can compete equally, but people can compete better if they are expected to take advantage of the opportunities presented to them to the best of their ability. Absolutely everyone, without exception, has the opportunity to get an education. They will do much better in life with an education of any quality than without an education. No one is pretending that all educations are created equal, but some education is always better than no education. Anyone who drops out of school and refuses to get an education is only harming themselves. Harming yourself and then expecting other people to pay your way because you refused the opportunity to better yourself is your own damn problem.
 

Goshin

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Good post, but at first I thought this was about the old Xploitation film, "Faster *****cat! Kill! Kill!" :lamo

 

samsmart

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I'll put this here, as I think this is a philosophical point.

I've noticed here over the past year many instances of what I call "The Fallacy of the Faster *****cat".

This was a mistake I made when I was much younger that led to unpleasantness more than once.

Simply put, some people are born more "capable" than others. Intelligence, charisma, looks, all confer advantages to those born with these traits over those who aren't.

What is easy for me (or you) may not be anywhere near as easy for someone else.

The way this manifests here is where those who obviously are in the "faster *****cat" subset assume that what they have accomplished can be accomplished by EVERYONE else if they just do as they did.

This is simply not the case. But I've seen a lot of intelligent, competent people get FURIOUS with others because they can't keep up, can't understand what is SIMPLE for THEM.

All things being equal, all people are not equal.

I've always been able to find work, regardless of the state of the economy, for instance. I have a HUGE skillset now, but this was true back before I had ANY skills to speak of. I'm very smart, not hideous, and possess a certain degree of charisma. I learn new things VERY quickly.

Does this make me "better" than others? No. No more than being able to run faster or lift more weight than another person makes them "better" than anyone else.

But in a race, the faster is will always win.

In a weightlifting contest, the strongest will always win.

(And I'm not referring to advantages that come from training or edcation, only those that result from the genetic roll of the dice, in these examples)

And the smart, attractive, charismatic person will virtually always win in economic competition over the less smart, less attractive, less charismatic person. "Drive" being equal.

My point is that far too many arguments here that revolve around issues of "fairness" and equality of opportunity and outcome from those in the faster *****cat class assume that all *****cats could run at the same speed if they just educated themselves and tried harder.

I don't believe this viewpoint is accurate as applied to the real world because people simply aren't born equally ABLED.

The "quick" kid and the "slow" kid are not going to have equal outcomes, even if their opportunities are equal. Doesn't mean we should intentionally damage the quick kids brain, just not get so "mad" when the slower kid can't "keep up".

So what do y'all think?

Do you agree that sometimes those of us who have no problem competing expect too much from those who are less well equipped?

We all know people who really try but just can't keep up. Is it ok for us to dismiss them as "lazy"? Tell them what we did that worked for us and then judge them ill if it doesn't work for them?

What are your thoughts on this?
I think that the person who's fastest in a footrace will not win a weightlifting championship, and, likewise, a weightlifting champion will not win in a footrace.
 

Cephus

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I think that the person who's fastest in a footrace will not win a weightlifting championship, and, likewise, a weightlifting champion will not win in a footrace.
But both will do better than the guy who sits in his easy chair and refuses to get up.
 

What if...?

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Good post, but at first I thought this was about the old Xploitation film, "Faster *****cat! Kill! Kill!" :lamo

That's where the word comes from. I'd seen the phrase long before I even knew it was from a film. Can't remember when I started using it this way, but I've been doing it for years.
 

What if...?

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It's too generic of an arguement. Some are incapable or less capable and some are lazy.
I was speaking more to a tendency to what could be described as arrogance.

Most of those who post here regularly are well above "average". The fact we care enough to engage at all sets us apart from the majority.

I wasn't looking for a solution to the worlds problems as much as pointing out what can become an error in ones thinking. It has for me and I've seen this enough to feel it worth pointing out.
 

What if...?

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It's not that everyone can compete equally, but people can compete better if they are expected to take advantage of the opportunities presented to them to the best of their ability. Absolutely everyone, without exception, has the opportunity to get an education. They will do much better in life with an education of any quality than without an education. No one is pretending that all educations are created equal, but some education is always better than no education. Anyone who drops out of school and refuses to get an education is only harming themselves. Harming yourself and then expecting other people to pay your way because you refused the opportunity to better yourself is your own damn problem.
This response indicates NOT indulging in the "fallacy" I'm talking about. It allows for individual strengths and weaknesses in its analysis.
 

What if...?

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But both will do better than the guy who sits in his easy chair and refuses to get up.
And they'll both do better than me, as an asthmatic ectomorph.

I did say that I was leaving out differences derived from training in my examples.
 

Pinkie

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I agree with What If. Many defend the abysmal schools in Cleveland by pointing out SOME children graduate, SOME go on to excel in adulthood.

IMO, if the schools are adequate, the AVERAGE parent could get an AVERAGE student to graduation and give him a chance at a decent life.

In other words, the existence of exceptional people and their results doesn't bless the system, IMO. In fact, if only they survive, IMO, it condemns it.
 

1Perry

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I agree with What If. Many defend the abysmal schools in Cleveland by pointing out SOME children graduate, SOME go on to excel in adulthood.
100% Well, O.K. I dunno, 75% ? the fault of corruption and cronyism.

IMO, if the schools are adequate, the AVERAGE parent could get an AVERAGE student to graduation and give him a chance at a decent life.

In other words, the existence of exceptional people and their results doesn't bless the system, IMO. In fact, if only they survive, IMO, it condemns it.
O.K., I'll play along with the discussion. If I was to say that the students were doing poorly in the Cleveland system simply because the students are all lazy and have bad parents, I would be wrong. There may be many bad parents and lazy students but until the corruption is weeded out, one can not tell.
 

Temporal

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I don't think being inactive means that nothing is happening. Sometimes a person appears lazy but there is a lot going on inside of them.

Our society values action but maybe if more people balanced that out by sometimes doing nothing, we would end up needing less action since we'd have more time to reflect on what is happening.

The system is setup with rules for playing the game and some people are subjectively more skilled at this, but it's hard to draw conclusions about people's value based on that.

Any given situation can have variables that are advantageous. Sometimes waiting and listening is the best thing you can do.
 

Pinkie

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You can apply this same analysis to other situations. Average unemployment is now at 9.1%. Should mean that your chances of getting hired are around 89.9%, correct?

But unemployment rates for those over 50, the disabled, black Americans, black American teenagers, etc. is far higher...in some cases, over 75%.
 

What if...?

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I don't think being inactive means that nothing is happening. Sometimes a person appears lazy but there is a lot going on inside of them.

Our society values action but maybe if more people balanced that out by sometimes doing nothing, we would end up needing less action since we'd have more time to reflect on what is happening.

The system is setup with rules for playing the game and some people are subjectively more skilled at this, but it's hard to draw conclusions about people's value based on that.

Any given situation can have variables that are advantageous. Sometimes waiting and listening is the best thing you can do.
Nice.

And I think the idea of "value" is important.

Just because someone isn't equipped to be a tycoon, doesn't mean they have no "value". Or that they are somehow "worthless" because they'd rather work in customer service because they like and are good with people, for instance.

Personally, I place considerable value in a clerk who loves their job. It improves my shopping experience.
 

justabubba

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I agree with What If. Many defend the abysmal schools in Cleveland by pointing out SOME children graduate, SOME go on to excel in adulthood.

IMO, if the schools are adequate, the AVERAGE parent could get an AVERAGE student to graduation and give him a chance at a decent life.

In other words, the existence of exceptional people and their results doesn't bless the system, IMO. In fact, if only they survive, IMO, it condemns it.
but what does this tell us about the average high school
one where 70% graduate and 30% drop out
since more than the statistical average of 50% have matriculated, does that indicate to us that a 30% drop out rate is found acceptable?


the OP's question cuts to the reason why i no longer identify my lean as libertarian
i do possess very strong libertarian views, but that political ideology makes no provision for aiding the least among us. those who - thru no fault of their own - cannot keep up


everyone deserves opportunity to thrive. the average. the weak. and the talented/ambitious
we should strive to provide that opportunity to each group, so long as that effort is not at the expense of the other groups
and there is the rub. the appropriate allocation of community resources
that is a very thin tightrope to walk
 

EagleAye

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Yeah I like what What If said as well.

From the greatest to the least in any skill all people should receive basic respect. This doesn't mean we can't celebrate people who excel. It makes sense to hold them up as a goal for greater ambition. It makes people who are midland push themselves harder. Perhaps they won't reach their goals because they simply don't have the ability, but at least they're maximizing their potential by even attempting the level of the most excellent.

By contrast, it's silly to force people into the mold of the least common denominator just to make the weakest feel better about themselves. That unnecessarily punishes the excellent. Those that "appear" weak aren't necessarily weak. They simply haven't found their strength. So those who aren't the best shouldn't feel bad about themselves or be "made to feel bad" about themselves. They should be encouraged to keep pushing and keep searching.

I'm watching the Bears/Packers game right now and wishing I could be out on the field with those guys. I just loooovvve Football. If I had my choice I would be the greatest Linebacker the game has ever seen...but it's not to be. I simply don't have the size nor the physical skills for it. Turns out I'm better at computer databases. I never planned for nor chose the occupation. It just so happens I'm good at it. I could've cried a lot and insisted everybody else play football "down" to my level so I could realize my personal dream. But that would be silly. I'm actually happier watching the extraordinary athletes we have a now, unfettered by my personal wants.
 

Cephus

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And they'll both do better than me, as an asthmatic ectomorph.

I did say that I was leaving out differences derived from training in my examples.
The point is, people who go out and give it their best effort will always do better than those who don't even try. Liberals want to reward people who don't even try to succeed, just for waking up in the morning, then they claim that everyone doesn't have opportunity. That's ludicrous.
 

justabubba

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The point is, people who go out and give it their best effort will always do better than those who don't even try.
not true
that person, born with innate artistic ability, will be able to sketch/paint/sculpt circles around those of us who have zero effective artistic skills
doesn't matter how hard i/we try, that person with ample native talent will do better

Liberals want to reward people who don't even try to succeed, just for waking up in the morning, then they claim that everyone doesn't have opportunity. That's ludicrous.
you insist this is true but you offer nothing to support that bold assertion
please gives us cites showing liberals actually want to reward those who refuse to help themselves
 

Pinkie

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The point is, people who go out and give it their best effort will always do better than those who don't even try. Liberals want to reward people who don't even try to succeed, just for waking up in the morning, then they claim that everyone doesn't have opportunity. That's ludicrous.
Amazing, the motives you attribute to people you do not know.

I'm not sure what the answer is....for some Americans, a depression has been going on for some time. Simple-minded as I am, seems to me they need JOBS.

I suppose you prefer they just curl up and die?
 

What if...?

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The point is, people who go out and give it their best effort will always do better than those who don't even try. Liberals want to reward people who don't even try to succeed, just for waking up in the morning, then they claim that everyone doesn't have opportunity. That's ludicrous.
The point of this thread isn't to justify some agenda.

Just to point out that it is good to remember that just because one is blessed doesn't make one inherently superior to others less so.
 

1Perry

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The point of this thread isn't to justify some agenda.

Just to point out that it is good to remember that just because one is blessed doesn't make one inherently superior to others less so.
I'm not blessed because I have a job. I have a job because I went out and worked for it. Maybe one shouldn't make assumptions about those doing O.K.?
 

Pinkie

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I'm not blessed because I have a job. I have a job because I went out and worked for it. Maybe one shouldn't make assumptions about those doing O.K.?
Perry, I don't begrudge you your good fortune....but that's what it is. If you have a job, especially one you like and are paid well to do, you are fortunate.

Not everyone is. Not everyone can be.
 

atrasicarius

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It's not that everyone can compete equally, but people can compete better if they are expected to take advantage of the opportunities presented to them to the best of their ability. Absolutely everyone, without exception, has the opportunity to get an education. They will do much better in life with an education of any quality than without an education. No one is pretending that all educations are created equal, but some education is always better than no education. Anyone who drops out of school and refuses to get an education is only harming themselves. Harming yourself and then expecting other people to pay your way because you refused the opportunity to better yourself is your own damn problem.
And why do you think it is that more kids drop out of bad schools than good schools? Do you think kids in poor school districts are inherently less motivated than kids in good school districts? Or could the school itself possibly have something to do with that?
 
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