"Fascist Bush! You are the terrorist!"

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/11/04/summit.protest.ap/index.html

Comments?

How about we cut our support for debt restructuring in South America?

Bush went to South America to discuss debt forgiveness and these morons are protesting him for it? What a bunch of uneductated uninformed idiots.

 

[TurtleDude]

Your pretty cavalier regarding the misery, death and destruction of others.

You are pretty cavalier in guessing what I think on the subject. War sucks but Germany and Japan became prosperous nations afterwards-our actions while harsh ended up being positive in the long run

Iraq isn't over so saying Bush left it in shambles is either incorrect or very premature

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by Trajan Octavian Titus:
How about we cut our support for debt restructuring in South America?

How about we stop doing the things that drive these people to protest against us?

 

[TurtleDude]

How about we cut our support for debt restructuring in South America?

sounds like a plan to me. Maybe if people could give up blow for a year that would really stick it to them :mrgreen:

 

[TurtleDude]

How about we stop doing the things that drive these people to protest against us?

Like having freedom, a high standard of living and a soccer team that is starting to beat these guys:mrgreen:

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by TurtleDude:
You are pretty cavalier in guessing what I think on the subject. War sucks but Germany and Japan became prosperous nations afterwards-our actions while harsh ended up being positive in the long run

Iraq isn't over so saying Bush left it in shambles is either incorrect or very premature

Don't compare Germany and Japan to Iraq. They did something to deserve an attack. Iraq did not. They did nothing to us, yet we attacked anyway. It's not the same thing.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

How about we stop doing the things that drive these people to protest against us?

Ya and how bout we send flowers to U.B.L.? Then we could all sing cumbaya and holds hands across the world and then peace would rain right? What a load of ****.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by Trajan Octavian Titus:
Ya and how bout we send flowers to U.B.L.? Then we could all sing cumbaya and holds hands across the world and then peace would rain right? What a load of ****.

Don't change the subject.

 

[TurtleDude]

Don't compare Germany and Japan to Iraq. They did something to deserve an attack. Iraq did not. They did nothing to us, yet we attacked anyway. It's not the same thing.

germany didn't attack us.

Iraq broke a CONTRACT WITH US-called a ceasefire. Nothing to deserve the attack? well all of the top dems and then all of the top Gop'ers said they had violated the contract

the only way some roaches will take you seriously is to squash one of them

Saddam was the roach who gave us the legal reason to squash him

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Don't change the subject.

Argentina would still be ruled by a fascist military regime if it was not for the IMF and the World Bank loans that gave them a chance for modernization and a free market.

 

[TurtleDude]

I guess ARCHON figured out that I really did say more than "libya" in my opening post

apology accepted:mrgreen:
later and Billy-you changed the subject by trying to claim Japan was different. that wasn't the point-it was to demonstrate that posting a picture means nothing, especially when the job isn't over yet-and you know its not over yet

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by TurtleDude:
later and Billy-you changed the subject by trying to claim Japan was different. that wasn't the point-it was to demonstrate that posting a picture means nothing, especially when the job isn't over yet-and you know its not over yet

Go back and re-read the posts, I didn't introduce Japan into the conversation. You did.

As for the picture, you indicated that thinking Bush leaves places in shambles was "inaccurate", so I posted an example of a shambles that Bush had left! I can understand why you would think it means nothing. You have that right.

 

[RightinNYC]

I think if you put it to a vote, South and Central America would have us out of there in an instant.

"The people" are stupid and have no idea what is best for them. This is generally true everywhere.

 

[RightinNYC]

That's pure conjecture. The democratization of Latin America isn't working any more than it will work in Iraq. Global hegemony - that's the course we're on, and for that the US government is despised by the people af Latin America.

I think we should take a closer look at the governments we are supporting in Central America. Particularly our excersions in Nicaragua, El Salvador and Central America, where we backed dictators and terrorists because of their support of US economic interests. At the very least it seems very immoral to me.

It's called realpolitick. It's simply another political theory, nothing "immoral" about it. The question of whether we have a duty to other nations or simply to ourselves rises out of it.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by Trajan Octavian Titus:
Argentina would still be ruled by a fascist military regime if it was not for the IMF and the World Bank loans that gave them a chance for modernization and a free market.

And your point is, what?

 

[RightinNYC]

Certainly true that. No price is to big for other countries to pay for our own interests, apparently.

Is that wrong?

Whose interests should we be looking out for primarily.

This seems like a good thread to get this discussion started, I've been meaning to get this out.

What do you all think our policy should BE?

Should we be a nation of idealists, sacrificing to spread what we see as the gift of democracy around the world? Should we be a nation of realists, looking out for our own interests only? I'd love to hear what you all think.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by TurtleDude:
germany didn't attack us.

Iraq broke a CONTRACT WITH US-called a ceasefire. Nothing to deserve the attack? well all of the top dems and then all of the top Gop'ers said they had violated the contract

the only way some roaches will take you seriously is to squash one of them

Saddam was the roach who gave us the legal reason to squash him

They broke the cease-fire? I hope your not refering to that "no-fly zone" bullshit.

 

[RightinNYC]

We supported alot of dictators in South and Latin America. I believe we supported the military dictatorship that committed alot of crimes against the Argentinians, maybe, that's one of the reasons why they are out their in the streets. Not completely famaliar with the history of our involvement in Argentina.

Don't worry, you don't need to research anything to have a strong opinion. You've got Noam Chomsky to tell you what to think!:doh

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

And your point is, what?

Uh, it's pretty self explanatory, but since you can't comprehend let me spell it out for you: The true fascist were in power in Argentina before the IMF and W.B. backed by the U.S. gave them huge loans that they still havn't payed back which allowed them to modernize and to have a free market which led to democracy following the end of the cold war.

Now due to Argentina's as well as most other S. American countries inabilitys to pay back these loans the U.S. has led a movement for debt restructuring, bail ins as opposed to bail outs, and most important of all; debt forgiveness. That's why Bush went there to discuss debt forgiveness and these idiots are protesting him for it they're a bunch of freaking self defeating idiots.

 

[RightinNYC]

You don't consider this "a shambles?"

Billo, you're the master of taking a completely unidentifiable, individual instance and proclaiming it to be the status quo.

First off, where is that picture from?
Secondly, what is the damage done from?
Thirdly, what did it look like BEFORE?
And fourth, does it matter?

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Don't worry, you don't need to research anything to have a strong opinion. You've got Noam Chomsky to tell you what to think!:doh

lmfao ya, Noam Chomsky: "pol pots just misunderstood." :rofl :rofl

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by RightatNYU:
Is that wrong?

Whose interests should we be looking out for primarily.

This seems like a good thread to get this discussion started, I've been meaning to get this out.

What do you all think our policy should BE?

Should we be a nation of idealists, sacrificing to spread what we see as the gift of democracy around the world? Should we be a nation of realists, looking out for our own interests only? I'd love to hear what you all think.

You don't export democracy at the end of a gun on a nation that has no clue what being democratic is. Nor do they have any experience living as a republic.

 

[RightinNYC]

Don't compare Germany and Japan to Iraq. They did something to deserve an attack. Iraq did not. They did nothing to us, yet we attacked anyway. It's not the same thing.

Huh?

Germany never directly attacked us, just like Iraq never attacked us.

However, Germany and Japan did attack our allies, just like Iraq did.

How you purport that there is no basic comparison is beyond me.

 

[RightinNYC]

You don't export democracy at the end of a gun on a nation that has no clue what being democratic is. Nor do they have any experience living as a republic.

So you would support a foreign policy that would involve us becoming allies with friendly nations, whether they were democracies or dictatorships?

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Huh?

Germany never directly attacked us, just like Iraq never attacked us.

However, Germany and Japan did attack our allies, just like Iraq did.

How you purport that there is no basic comparison is beyond me.

Well I've got to go with Billo here Germany declared war on us when we declared war on Japan but the fact remains that we were still in a state of war with Iraq and due to Saddams failure to abide by the terms of the cease fire we had every right nay the obligation to take action.