• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Fascism In Austria

Soviet_Guy

Banned
Joined
May 30, 2005
Messages
383
Reaction score
0
Location
Toronto, Canada
In the last three decades, the F.A.D party in Austria has maintained the 3rd largest number of seats in the Austrian " Parliament " and the country also elected an Ex-Nazi in 1986. I don't know about you people, but I can see Fascists taking over in Austria in the next two decadesm especially when in the last election, the F.A.D fell only in single digits of votes to claim 2nd largest party, that's pretty bad.
 

anomaly

Anti-Capitalist
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 20, 2005
Messages
1,020
Reaction score
6
Location
IN
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Soviet_Guy said:
In the last three decades, the F.A.D party in Austria has maintained the 3rd largest number of seats in the Austrian " Parliament " and the country also elected an Ex-Nazi in 1986. I don't know about you people, but I can see Fascists taking over in Austria in the next two decadesm especially when in the last election, the F.A.D fell only in single digits of votes to claim 2nd largest party, that's pretty bad.
Perhaps it would be wise to begin stepping up socialist efforts in Europe...In some countries, Marxist parties are rather strong. With these strong socialist parties, a socialist country could potentially arise that could be an effective combatant against fascism in Europe.
 

anomaly

Anti-Capitalist
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 20, 2005
Messages
1,020
Reaction score
6
Location
IN
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Soviet_Guy said:
Yeah, I got nothing against Marxism, but I rather prefer Socialism.
Is not socialism a part of Marxist theory? Marxist theory's about the future economic systems always include socialism. Marx said that socialism was a transitional stage to communism. Are you simply in favor of socialism and against communism? That is acceptable, as communism is thought by many, and understandably so, to be a utopian theory. I think that once capitalism is globally exterminated, communism will be able to exist (my ideas of economic evolution lead me to think this way, basically the evolution is from socialism to world socialism to anarcho-communism). But, getting back on topic, yes, socialism must be our primary concern.
 
Last edited:

Soviet_Guy

Banned
Joined
May 30, 2005
Messages
383
Reaction score
0
Location
Toronto, Canada
Communism, True Communism, can never exist, It took me qiet a while to accept that fact. Socialism isn't like Communism, Socialism is like Capitalism but with the changes neccesary to make sense. Look at it this way, in Capitalism, people pay loads of taxes, the rich get more and more money by highering more and more employees and making them work like dogs at times. In Socialism, most companies are controlled by the government, and " Bosses " of companies are elected through the government by the work athic and accomplishements. There are many employees who work their *ss off and never get credited for it, sometimes companies that are owned by Jewish bussinessmen are cruel towards Non-Jews and so even if there is a Non-Jew that is an extraordinary worker, he may be put lower than another employee who works less but is favoured by the Jewish Boss, it happens. Thus statistics decide your poisition in the work place, your success and initiative, Capitalism does not do that, their are way too many people who ride through life with ease under Capitalism. Welfare, that should not exist, all people should be given some sort of job. Obese citizens should not be given money, obesity is not a disability. One more thing, in Socialism, taxes are lower because all the nation's people are payed less, as the prices of food, gas ext go down as well, the government thus keeps more money for trading which it has to spend the same amount of money on, and of course, more money into athletics, and not give enormous amount to "Pro" athletes, that shouldn't be, I love sports, I follow all of the 5 major sports very closely, and I still disagree amount the amount of pay these players get, the maximum for our present time should be 2 million a year, and a minimum of 100,000 in any sport. I could go on and on but it be best for you to just buy a book on the Socialist Workers Manifesto, there are many different versions, so I really cannot tell you which one would be best as i have only read one myself.
 

Folgore

New member
Joined
May 31, 2005
Messages
16
Reaction score
0
Location
Italia
Maybe you wanted to say FPO, not FAD(?).
FPO is not a Fascist party, Mr.Jorg Haider is a traitor sold to U$rael (something like our Gianfranco Fini :mrgreen:)
 

anomaly

Anti-Capitalist
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 20, 2005
Messages
1,020
Reaction score
6
Location
IN
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Soviet_Guy said:
Communism, True Communism, can never exist, It took me qiet a while to accept that fact. Socialism isn't like Communism, Socialism is like Capitalism but with the changes neccesary to make sense. Look at it this way, in Capitalism, people pay loads of taxes, the rich get more and more money by highering more and more employees and making them work like dogs at times. In Socialism, most companies are controlled by the government, and " Bosses " of companies are elected through the government by the work athic and accomplishements. There are many employees who work their *ss off and never get credited for it, sometimes companies that are owned by Jewish bussinessmen are cruel towards Non-Jews and so even if there is a Non-Jew that is an extraordinary worker, he may be put lower than another employee who works less but is favoured by the Jewish Boss, it happens. Thus statistics decide your poisition in the work place, your success and initiative, Capitalism does not do that, their are way too many people who ride through life with ease under Capitalism. Welfare, that should not exist, all people should be given some sort of job. Obese citizens should not be given money, obesity is not a disability. One more thing, in Socialism, taxes are lower because all the nation's people are payed less, as the prices of food, gas ext go down as well, the government thus keeps more money for trading which it has to spend the same amount of money on, and of course, more money into athletics, and not give enormous amount to "Pro" athletes, that shouldn't be, I love sports, I follow all of the 5 major sports very closely, and I still disagree amount the amount of pay these players get, the maximum for our present time should be 2 million a year, and a minimum of 100,000 in any sport. I could go on and on but it be best for you to just buy a book on the Socialist Workers Manifesto, there are many different versions, so I really cannot tell you which one would be best as i have only read one myself.
I'd say communism is possible, but socialism is its prerequisite. I agree somewhat with your explanation of socialism, but I do have a few objections.

First, there are no 'bosses' of companies elected through the government in socialism. I have devised a system of localization of ecnomic planning, meaning that each factory would plan its own production. The local government will advise this production, and will be advised on production by the factory planner, who is elected by the workers of a factory. The planner is a former worker, his peers elect him. This planner will be explained his job and the conditions of the factory by his predecessor. The planner will work closely wiht an economist, as I call it, one who has studied economics and has mastered the local economic needs and production history, as well as has calculated needed increases in factory production. The goal of production is to limit the surplus of goods, in capitalism it is this huge surplus tht leads to recession. Such actions will allow for shorter workdays for workers of a factory. Basically, I'd say have workers elect their own planners from amongst themselves, not some government official (although this elected planner will work closely with the local govenrment).

Antoher objection I have is your position on welfare. Yuo should understand that it is likely that socialist countries will be quite poor nations, therefore obese persons who don't want to work because they're obese will not exist. A welfare policy will exist in the form of redistributive policy. The social classes will be split up into income categories, and those at the top will pay the most in redistributive tax, and then the next lowest class will pay lower, etc. Think of it as dividing the social classes up into 6 income categories. The top three will pay redistributive taxes. Now, this redistribution will also be received by the lower classes according to their income levels. The upper-lower class will get the least redistributive money, and so on. This will help to ensure thta every worker brings in enough money to live on. Redistributive policy will not be so drastic as to eliminate wealth disparity completely, of course. This type of welfare policy will be an essential part to socialism.

Then you say the nation's people are payed less. Well, this may be so, but it certainly isn't guarenteed. Needed things, like food and water, will be a service of the government. Each family in the lower levels of society, atleast, will be given a certain amount of food, depending on the size of their family. Extra money of any family can be put toward extra food (of course, no extra water will be needed) or luxury items (soda, for example) at any market. After that, a living wage can be calculated, a wage that one can live off of, and that will be theminimum wage (it will be them inimum living wage). So, depending on the occupation, wages might be increased.
 

Soviet_Guy

Banned
Joined
May 30, 2005
Messages
383
Reaction score
0
Location
Toronto, Canada
If you ever try to buy a book on the Socialist Manifesto, you'll find many, in the Peoples Socialist Manifesto, bosses of companies are chosen by the government, by looking at which worker has made the most impact and has had teh greatest success, and bosses under Socialism are given terms, how long, they may differ.
 

Comrade Brian

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 18, 2005
Messages
1,239
Reaction score
0
Location
NE, Minnesota
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
anomaly said:
Perhaps it would be wise to begin stepping up socialist efforts in Europe...In some countries, Marxist parties are rather strong. With these strong socialist parties, a socialist country could potentially arise that could be an effective combatant against fascism in Europe.
Like in Greece, the two communist parties together hold about 10% coming in 3rd and 4th in largest party, Ukraine I believe they're Communist party is third, Russia is first last time I saw, Communist parties are also quite big in France and Italy, and in Mongolia these past few weeks, the communist party is now their president's and most legislature after the recent election, CPUSA is the largest left-wing party with only membership of around 2,500 and growing, Britain I think they've split into 5 parties, we need another Comintern, to put back together split parties.
 

Comrade Brian

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 18, 2005
Messages
1,239
Reaction score
0
Location
NE, Minnesota
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
anomaly said:
Is not socialism a part of Marxist theory? QUOTE]

Socialism is primarily of the Rousseau guy and several others I've just forgotton, but yes many socialists are marxists, but not all, no socialist is really a leninist which most Communist, that's a really dividing factor, and marx did help further socialism, but still not all socialists are marxists.
 

Soviet_Guy

Banned
Joined
May 30, 2005
Messages
383
Reaction score
0
Location
Toronto, Canada
Comrade Brian said:
Russia is first last time I saw,
No, no it isn't, Russia's wacked now, there is no " party ", only Putin, it's becoming a dictatorship, Putin is even following in some ways in the foot steps of Stalin, but more so of Zhar Nicholas, he wanted control over all.
 

Soviet_Guy

Banned
Joined
May 30, 2005
Messages
383
Reaction score
0
Location
Toronto, Canada
Folgore said:
Maybe you wanted to say FPO, not FAD(?).
FPO is not a Fascist party, Mr.Jorg Haider is a traitor sold to U$rael (something like our Gianfranco Fini :mrgreen:)
Yes, I know the FPO they're the big ones, but you'll find they aren't all that facsist, I'm talking about this:
 

anomaly

Anti-Capitalist
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 20, 2005
Messages
1,020
Reaction score
6
Location
IN
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Soviet_Guy said:
If you ever try to buy a book on the Socialist Manifesto, you'll find many, in the Peoples Socialist Manifesto, bosses of companies are chosen by the government, by looking at which worker has made the most impact and has had teh greatest success, and bosses under Socialism are given terms, how long, they may differ.
You want the government to choose factory planners just because a minfesto says so? No, no, it would be much better to have the workers at a specific factory decide who among them will plan production at the factory. This chosen planner will have term limits. However, I am speaking on the most local of levels here, the planner will only be 'boss' of his factory/workplace. Of course the local government will oversee production. Also, in a nationalized system, there are no companies (atleast in cases of production). Every factory is controlled by the state. Perhaps what your manifesto is alluding to is what I have dubbed the 'economist' who I think will aid the factory planner in his decision making. This economist will be appointed by the government. He will be an expert in economics (duh) and will also have studied local factory output, and also poulation growth and needed shifts in factory/field production. Yes, I think we're talking about the same thing, just in different terms.
 

anomaly

Anti-Capitalist
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 20, 2005
Messages
1,020
Reaction score
6
Location
IN
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Comrade Brian said:
Like in Greece, the two communist parties together hold about 10% coming in 3rd and 4th in largest party, Ukraine I believe they're Communist party is third, Russia is first last time I saw, Communist parties are also quite big in France and Italy, and in Mongolia these past few weeks, the communist party is now their president's and most legislature after the recent election, CPUSA is the largest left-wing party with only membership of around 2,500 and growing, Britain I think they've split into 5 parties, we need another Comintern, to put back together split parties.
Actually, in France, Marxist parties together received 15% of the vote a few years back. If we concentrate efforts in France, perhaps we can dispose of Chirac and create a socialist nation. Also, in Italy, socialist parties are rather strong. But, either way, I think it is time that we socialists give up hope in the USA. In Europe, chances for socialist growth are much, much more promising. The USA's capitalist sysem can be combatted at a later time.
 

Soviet_Guy

Banned
Joined
May 30, 2005
Messages
383
Reaction score
0
Location
Toronto, Canada
Yes, best to wait it out for two more decades when the United States system will collapse, then Social reforms can begin to take place there. For me, I'm going to be headed to Austria after I'm done University, then perhaps after Austria, Germany, or Russia.
 

anomaly

Anti-Capitalist
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 20, 2005
Messages
1,020
Reaction score
6
Location
IN
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Soviet_Guy said:
Yes, best to wait it out for two more decades when the United States system will collapse, then Social reforms can begin to take place there. For me, I'm going to be headed to Austria after I'm done University, then perhaps after Austria, Germany, or Russia.
I'd much prefer going to South America, where many revolutionary movements are taking place (Mexico, Bolivia, Venezuela, just to name a few). I hope to double major in economics and political science in college and hopefully aid the revolutionary causes in these nations.
 

anomaly

Anti-Capitalist
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 20, 2005
Messages
1,020
Reaction score
6
Location
IN
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Soviet_Guy said:
Yes, but sorry to say, South Americ at present, is hopeless as any impact on world issues.
I don't much care about 'world issues', I care about 'national' issues, I care about helping those whom I can. In South America, the time is right for socialism. I want to help those who suffer from capitalism, that is all I care about. The world is too large a task for any of us, but a nation, and its people, are not. We can help these people with socialism, and that is the important thing.
 

Soviet_Guy

Banned
Joined
May 30, 2005
Messages
383
Reaction score
0
Location
Toronto, Canada
I care for being there when Russia revolts against Putin, or whatever government we'll have when the time comes. That my friend will create world impact, worl conquest, in the end, to destroy capitalism the only way it can be destroyed, from the center point of all that it has come from, the United States. Only when the U.S. is conquered and those who favour Capitalism die, then Social Democracy will come of age.
 

Comrade Brian

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 18, 2005
Messages
1,239
Reaction score
0
Location
NE, Minnesota
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Soviet_Guy said:
Yes, but sorry to say, South Americ at present, is hopeless as any impact on world issues.
If SA becomes socialist. the US economy will collapse, the US economy is largely based off of SA and CA, and NAFTA and CAFTA have huge opposition by the people. :mrgreen:
 

Comrade Brian

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 18, 2005
Messages
1,239
Reaction score
0
Location
NE, Minnesota
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
anomaly said:
Actually, in France, Marxist parties together received 15% of the vote a few years back. If we concentrate efforts in France, perhaps we can dispose of Chirac and create a socialist nation. Also, in Italy, socialist parties are rather strong. But, either way, I think it is time that we socialists give up hope in the USA. In Europe, chances for socialist growth are much, much more promising. The USA's capitalist sysem can be combatted at a later time.
Thanx for the info, but if socialists leave the US, nobody will oppose capitalism in the US
 

Soviet_Guy

Banned
Joined
May 30, 2005
Messages
383
Reaction score
0
Location
Toronto, Canada
The following 1st world countries have had Socialist governments in the past 25 years:

France
Austria
Germany
Luxembourg
Netherlands
...............Spain, Belarus, just kidding the aren't First World.
 

Comrade Brian

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 18, 2005
Messages
1,239
Reaction score
0
Location
NE, Minnesota
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Spain is 1st world, but until 1975 it had a fascist government, and the only opposition were the loyalists in the 30's, the only country that helped them was the USSR

Belarus, I don't know what its category is, used to be part of USSR, so second world, but now E. Europe is pretty much 3rd world
 

GarzaUK

That European Guy
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 28, 2005
Messages
3,682
Reaction score
625
Location
Belfast, Northern Ireland
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Comrade Brian said:
Spain is 1st world, but until 1975 it had a fascist government, and the only opposition were the loyalists in the 30's, the only country that helped them was the USSR

Belarus, I don't know what its category is, used to be part of USSR, so second world, but now E. Europe is pretty much 3rd world
Are you comparing Eastern European nations to countries in Africa? After being in Eastern Europe myself (Bulgaria), it is definitely 2nd world countries - maybe not Albania.
 
Top Bottom