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Farm bill includes billions aimed at keeping dairy industry afloat

TU Curmudgeon

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From United Press International

Farm bill includes billions aimed at keeping dairy industry afloat

EVANSVILLE, Ind., Dec. 27 (UPI) -- With years of low milk prices driving American dairy farmers out of business, the federal government plans to pour billions of dollars into new support programs.

The goal of the Dairy Margin Protection Program -- part of the 2018 farm bill signed into law Dec. 20 -- is to guarantee that farmers earn a certain amount for their milk. If farmers' earnings drop below a minimum threshold, the government will cover the difference.

"The program looks to be very generous," said Andrew Novakovic, a professor of agricultural economics at Cornell University. "The money should help [farmers] keep even with bills and maybe catch up a bit."

This is welcome news to struggling farmers, many of whom have not made any money since milk prices dropped in 2014, Novakovic said.

COMMENT:-

In most of the world payments by a government to a national industry that will enable that industry to sell its products at less than the cost of production are known as "subsidies". Those "subsidies" are almost universally considered as complete legal justification for the imposition of "duties/tariffs" on the product to protect against "dumping".

How this will impact the absolutely massive 0.3% increase in the share of the Canadian milk market that Mr. Trump achieved by his stunningly brilliant negotiations on NAFTA 2.0 is yet to be determined.

Don't bet that the impact will be beneficial to American milk producers.
 

trouble13

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From United Press International

Farm bill includes billions aimed at keeping dairy industry afloat

EVANSVILLE, Ind., Dec. 27 (UPI) -- With years of low milk prices driving American dairy farmers out of business, the federal government plans to pour billions of dollars into new support programs.

The goal of the Dairy Margin Protection Program -- part of the 2018 farm bill signed into law Dec. 20 -- is to guarantee that farmers earn a certain amount for their milk. If farmers' earnings drop below a minimum threshold, the government will cover the difference.

"The program looks to be very generous," said Andrew Novakovic, a professor of agricultural economics at Cornell University. "The money should help [farmers] keep even with bills and maybe catch up a bit."

This is welcome news to struggling farmers, many of whom have not made any money since milk prices dropped in 2014, Novakovic said.

COMMENT:-

In most of the world payments by a government to a national industry that will enable that industry to sell its products at less than the cost of production are known as "subsidies". Those "subsidies" are almost universally considered as complete legal justification for the imposition of "duties/tariffs" on the product to protect against "dumping".

How this will impact the absolutely massive 0.3% increase in the share of the Canadian milk market that Mr. Trump achieved by his stunningly brilliant negotiations on NAFTA 2.0 is yet to be determined.

Don't bet that the impact will be beneficial to American milk producers.
I'm not clear on what your arguing for?
Higher milk prices?
Letting dairy farms go under?

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Praxas

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I'm not clear on what your arguing for?
Higher milk prices?
Letting dairy farms go under?

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I see you are quite ok with Trump picking winners and losers as well as subsidizing his trade wars. What a good liberal you have become.
 

trouble13

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I see you are quite ok with Trump picking winners and losers as well as subsidizing his trade wars. What a good liberal you have become.
Typical strawman nonsense.

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Grand Mal

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I'm not clear on what your arguing for?
Higher milk prices?
Letting dairy farms go under?

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Know how America sees Chinese steel? Heavily subsidized, over-produced, inferior product dumped onto a foreign market?
That's how American dairy is seen by the rest of the world. Overproduced, government subsidized, hormone-treated and dumped at artificial (government-subsidized) prices on foreign markets.
 

Praxas

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Typical strawman nonsense.

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Fact and by the way no one cares you sent it from your sm-g965u . You’re a great liberal.
 

ttwtt78640

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Know how America sees Chinese steel? Heavily subsidized, over-produced, inferior product dumped onto a foreign market?
That's how American dairy is seen by the rest of the world. Overproduced, government subsidized, hormone-treated and dumped at artificial (government-subsidized) prices on foreign markets.

Welcome to MAGA (aka crony capitalism).
 

MTAtech

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From United Press International

Farm bill includes billions aimed at keeping dairy industry afloat

EVANSVILLE, Ind., Dec. 27 (UPI) -- With years of low milk prices driving American dairy farmers out of business, the federal government plans to pour billions of dollars into new support programs.

The goal of the Dairy Margin Protection Program -- part of the 2018 farm bill signed into law Dec. 20 -- is to guarantee that farmers earn a certain amount for their milk. If farmers' earnings drop below a minimum threshold, the government will cover the difference.

"The program looks to be very generous," said Andrew Novakovic, a professor of agricultural economics at Cornell University. "The money should help [farmers] keep even with bills and maybe catch up a bit."

This is welcome news to struggling farmers, many of whom have not made any money since milk prices dropped in 2014, Novakovic said.

COMMENT:-

In most of the world payments by a government to a national industry that will enable that industry to sell its products at less than the cost of production are known as "subsidies". Those "subsidies" are almost universally considered as complete legal justification for the imposition of "duties/tariffs" on the product to protect against "dumping".

How this will impact the absolutely massive 0.3% increase in the share of the Canadian milk market that Mr. Trump achieved by his stunningly brilliant negotiations on NAFTA 2.0 is yet to be determined.

Don't bet that the impact will be beneficial to American milk producers.

No doubt the product of dairy industry lobbyists. The swamp is alive and well.
 

celticwar17

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So wait... I'm confused.

What we want to do?

End the American Dairy industry? That what we are cheering for right now?
 

Praxas

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So wait... I'm confused.

What we want to do?

End the American Dairy industry? That what we are cheering for right now?

I thought you guys were for "letting the market decide" and that Trade wars were good?

So if Trade wars are good and you want the market to decide, why does Trump need to subsidize anything. That's libertarian logic right?
 

ecofarm

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Enough cow pus.
 

chuckiechan

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I'm not clear on what your arguing for?
Higher milk prices?
Letting dairy farms go under?

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The OP is being like a reporter, not trying to connect the dots.

Milk subsides are there because once upon a time America decided Americans should have ample supplies of low priced milk available at all times. One reason for this is most milk is fortified with vitamin D to aid the absorption of calcium, so our population will grow up with strong bones. These laws were written back in the day when your dairy had to be very close to the store to prevent spoilage, and small dairies fit the bill. The government provided subsidies to keep them in business so the milk supply would be cheap and plentiful.

The problem with subsidies is they are painful and politically unpopular when they are removed. If you goal is to be loved, you don't want to mess with children's milk and be responsible for bowlegged children.

It's an open question which I can't answer, as to whether the nation's health will suffer if we remove subsidies and let market forces determine supply, demand, and price. Amazon can certainly drop two gallons on your doorstep in a day. Until they won't.
 

ttwtt78640

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I thought you guys were for "letting the market decide" and that Trade wars were good?

So if Trade wars are good and you want the market to decide, why does Trump need to subsidize anything. That's libertarian logic right?

The market decided that it was best to have government guarantee them a tidy profit.
 

Winston

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Come on folks, where are my real libertarian economists to give Trump a lesson on comparative advantage?
 

celticwar17

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I thought you guys were for "letting the market decide" and that Trade wars were good?

So if Trade wars are good and you want the market to decide, why does Trump need to subsidize anything. That's libertarian logic right?

No... I am just curious.

I find it hypocritical that people want to defend illegal immigration because of all the fruit plantations that need their cheap illegal caste status labor to survive.... all the while upset at dairy farm subsidies.

I think the China trade war is 100% legitimate, for countless reasons.... and it really is something the whole nation should be behind. The others.... I have less of an opinion on, I see the arguments from both sides.

Ideally, I would like no subsidies and free trade with Canada. Though.... Canada doesn't want free trade..... and it seems we want subsidies to compensate for it.
 

Praxas

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The market decided that it was best to have government guarantee them a tidy profit.

No, that would be the dairy farmers that decided that. Unless of course you are saying that the market shouldn't decide? Isn't that anti-libertarian having Trump pick winners and losers via Subsidizing? You guys were ALL against that with Obama.
 

Praxas

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No... I am just curious.

I find it hypocritical that people want to defend illegal immigration because of all the fruit plantations that need their cheap illegal caste status labor to survive.... all the while upset at dairy farm subsidies.

I think the China trade war is 100% legitimate, for countless reasons.... and it really is something the whole nation should be behind. The others.... I have less of an opinion on, I see the arguments from both sides.

Ideally, I would like no subsidies and free trade with Canada. Though.... Canada doesn't want free trade..... and it seems we want subsidies to compensate for it.

So you are FOR Trump subsidizing, but were against Obama subsidizing? Either you are for it or against it. You can't say you're against China Subsidizing Steel and then be for Trump subsidizing Dairy Farmers unless of course you love hypocrisy as long as Trump does it.
 

Winston

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No, that would be the dairy farmers that decided that. Unless of course you are saying that the market shouldn't decide? Isn't that anti-libertarian having Trump pick winners and losers via Subsidizing? You guys were ALL against that with Obama.

ttwtt isn't a right wing hack. he sees much wrong with the Trump administration and the Democrats as well. I'm sure if Trump is doing something that goes against his beliefs he will speak up.
 

trouble13

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Know how America sees Chinese steel? Heavily subsidized, over-produced, inferior product dumped onto a foreign market?
That's how American dairy is seen by the rest of the world. Overproduced, government subsidized, hormone-treated and dumped at artificial (government-subsidized) prices on foreign markets.
What is your solution

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ttwtt78640

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No, that would be the dairy farmers that decided that. Unless of course you are saying that the market shouldn't decide? Isn't that anti-libertarian having Trump pick winners and losers via Subsidizing? You guys were ALL against that with Obama.

The market, in this case, is a collective (trade association?) of dairy farmers which act much like a union. There are many ways to organize such that competition is limited and profits (or high salaries) are assured.

https://www.quora.com/Who-or-what-controls-the-number-of-medical-doctors-in-the-U-S
 

Grand Mal

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So wait... I'm confused.

What we want to do?

End the American Dairy industry? That what we are cheering for right now?

Why does it have to be all or nothing? Either the industry grossly over-produces and needs to be subsidized by the government or the industry needs to be ended? Can there really not be something between the extremes that will work?
 

Praxas

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What is your solution

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According to folks like you, let the companies fail. If they were good, they could stand on their own. That's what cons said about Obama's picking winners and losers. Oh how your hypocrisy flows.
 

Phys251

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Oh man.

I started a thread about a related issue about a month ago:

https://www.debatepolitics.com/gene...ry-farmers-barely-hanging-crisis-deepens.html
https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...sin-barely-hanging-crisis-deepens/2112841002/

Go look at the number of dairy herds year by year in that article. Note that the decline has been remarkably steady regardless of who's been in the White House.

I'm worried about how this will end for dairy farmers. For many of them, their farm is all they have. And those farms are dying.

Transitioning them out will not be an easy task.
 

celticwar17

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So you are FOR Trump subsidizing, but were against Obama subsidizing? Either you are for it or against it. You can't say you're against China Subsidizing Steel and then be for Trump subsidizing Dairy Farmers unless of course you love hypocrisy as long as Trump does it.

Where in my post did I suggest I was for subsidizing?

All I said was, I was 100% for the trade war with China, as should everyone in this country.

In fact... I said I support NO subsidies ideally. I told you why people want subsidies, it's because nations do not want free trade. Did you read my post?
 

trouble13

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Fact and by the way no one cares you sent it from your sm-g965u . You’re a great liberal.
Your right about 1 thing anyhow. I am a great liberal as well as a great conservative. In fact I'm a great person all around.

The fact still remains that I did not advocate any position. I asked the OP what they were arguing for. It has been explained what is not liked about the current policy and i open minded enough to listen to the counter position before deciding which position i agree with.



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