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False Conjecture from the Uncertainty Principle

Is our interpretation of the uncertainty principle wrong?

  • Yes, electrons do have actual positions.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • No, Heisenberg principle all the way.

    Votes: 1 100.0%
  • Total voters
    1
E

Exquisitor

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False Conjecture from the Uncertainty Principle:

The uncertainty principle says you can't know both the velocity and position of an electron, but I say you can. You just have to have instruments tiny enough and be moving at such a timescale; to be that tiny yourself.

So if we shrunk to sit on an electron, we would find a year goes by in one orbit. This is how you can gain time, if you shrink the whole planet down to the size relative to the electron, we can go years and years on that reflection and then zoom back in on it.

So in this tiny world, the electrons do not flit around, but maintain specific orbits that vary just like the planets.
 
Exquisitor said:
False Conjecture from the Uncertainty Principle:

The uncertainty principle says you can't know both the velocity and position of an electron, but I say you can. You just have to have instruments tiny enough and be moving at such a timescale; to be that tiny yourself.

So if we shrunk to sit on an electron, we would find a year goes by in one orbit. This is how you can gain time, if you shrink the whole planet down to the size relative to the electron, we can go years and years on that reflection and then zoom back in on it.

So in this tiny world, the electrons do not flit around, but maintain specific orbits that vary just like the planets.
Click to expand...
Pass that over here. It smells like the good stuff.
 
Exquisitor said:
False Conjecture from the Uncertainty Principle:

The uncertainty principle says you can't know both the velocity and position of an electron, but I say you can. You just have to have instruments tiny enough and be moving at such a timescale; to be that tiny yourself.

So if we shrunk to sit on an electron, we would find a year goes by in one orbit. This is how you can gain time, if you shrink the whole planet down to the size relative to the electron, we can go years and years on that reflection and then zoom back in on it.

So in this tiny world, the electrons do not flit around, but maintain specific orbits that vary just like the planets.
Click to expand...
So you're saying...

 
Loulit01 said:
Pass that over here. It smells like the good stuff.
Click to expand...

I mean, it's been decades since I was wild. But mixing shrooms and acid never caused me to think anything like the OP made sense....
 
Exquisitor said:
False Conjecture from the Uncertainty Principle:

The uncertainty principle says you can't know both the velocity and position of an electron, but I say you can. You just have to have instruments tiny enough and be moving at such a timescale; to be that tiny yourself.

So if we shrunk to sit on an electron, we would find a year goes by in one orbit. This is how you can gain time, if you shrink the whole planet down to the size relative to the electron, we can go years and years on that reflection and then zoom back in on it.

So in this tiny world, the electrons do not flit around, but maintain specific orbits that vary just like the planets.
Click to expand...
So to know the exact position of an electron at a given time you have to be so much smaller than an electron that you can mimic the actions of that electron while carrying scientific instruments so accurate and so advanced they're basically inconceivable. Then you have to match the orbit and velocity of the electron you're studying when science says observing the electron affects its action.

Yeah, okay.
 
Exquisitor said:
False Conjecture from the Uncertainty Principle:

The uncertainty principle says you can't know both the velocity and position of an electron, but I say you can. You just have to have instruments tiny enough and be moving at such a timescale; to be that tiny yourself.

So if we shrunk to sit on an electron, we would find a year goes by in one orbit. This is how you can gain time, if you shrink the whole planet down to the size relative to the electron, we can go years and years on that reflection and then zoom back in on it.

So in this tiny world, the electrons do not flit around, but maintain specific orbits that vary just like the planets.
Click to expand...
That is not how any of that works. The uncertainty Principle states that in complimentary variables, the more you know about one variable, the less you know about the other. This is a fundamental aspect of the universe. Perhaps the best way to explain it is with another set of complimentary variables, time and energy. The shorter the period of time, the less certain the level of energy. So, for example, for very short periods of time(a decimal followed by a whole lot of zeros, then 1...it has to be very short periods of time), an electron might have enough extra energy to emit a photon. This is known as a virtual photon, and as long as the electron re-absorbs a photon in that short period of time, all is well. And this is what happens. Electrons emit photons for very short periods of time, these photons are absorbed potentially by other electrons, changing the motion of the electrons, and this is what is known as electromagnetism.

Edit: before someone points it out, yes that is massively, painfully oversimplified.
 
Loulit01 said:
So to know the exact position of an electron at a given time you have to be so much smaller than an electron that you can mimic the actions of that electron while carrying scientific instruments so accurate and so advanced they're basically inconceivable. Then you have to match the orbit and velocity of the electron you're studying when science says observing the electron affects its action.

Yeah, okay.
Click to expand...
But the velocity of the electron is irrelevant when you're that tiny.

If you freeze an atom in time, the electrons will have positions, but, no, you won't know where they are going.

In order to view such a scene requires ether, souls have such vision, adepts, can look at atoms and see the electron cloud diagram.
 
Redress said:
That is not how any of that works. The uncertainty Principle states that in complimentary variables, the more you know about one variable, the less you know about the other. This is a fundamental aspect of the universe. Perhaps the best way to explain it is with another set of complimentary variables, time and energy. The shorter the period of time, the less certain the level of energy. So, for example, for very short periods of time(a decimal followed by a whole lot of zeros, then 1...it has to be very short periods of time), an electron might have enough extra energy to emit a photon. This is known as a virtual photon, and as long as the electron re-absorbs a photon in that short period of time, all is well. And this is what happens. Electrons emit photons for very short periods of time, these photons are absorbed potentially by other electrons, changing the motion of the electrons, and this is what is known as electromagnetism.

Edit: before someone points it out, yes that is massively, painfully oversimplified.
Click to expand...
It's a whole lot of zeros to the Singularity and then only a few remain.

The Singularity is so small, that time is balanced to infinite mass, so that the string has time to go through all the elements of the remaining two previous Universes.
 
Exquisitor said:
But the velocity of the electron is irrelevant when you're that tiny.

If you freeze an atom in time, the electrons will have positions, but, no, you won't know where they are going.

In order to view such a scene requires ether, souls have such vision, adepts, can look at atoms and see the electron cloud diagram.
Click to expand...
Well if you're going to get mystical...
 
Loulit01 said:
Well if you're going to get mystical...
Click to expand...
There's an electron room up above the third throne room, across the river Styx, go up Death's pole a little way past some realms.

You won't feel comfortable in there for long at first, you'll have to get out, it's a great way to get tiny, it makes you tiny, getting tiny there wins tiny contests.

Don't worry, once the genie attains the Singularity, it may retire from its tiny contests, they are no longer such to it, they didn't take him halfway there.
 
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Exquisitor said:
False Conjecture from the Uncertainty Principle:

The uncertainty principle says you can't know both the velocity and position of an electron, but I say you can. You just have to have instruments tiny enough and be moving at such a timescale; to be that tiny yourself.

So if we shrunk to sit on an electron, we would find a year goes by in one orbit. This is how you can gain time, if you shrink the whole planet down to the size relative to the electron, we can go years and years on that reflection and then zoom back in on it.

So in this tiny world, the electrons do not flit around, but maintain specific orbits that vary just like the planets.
Click to expand...
You can describe QM in such a way that particles having actual positions, but only at the expense of making all other observables (such as momentum) contextual. Of course, a particle with a definite position would by definition have a definite velocity, but this "true" velocity would be unrelated to the observable generally known as "momentum".
 
Exquisitor said:
It's a whole lot of zeros to the Singularity and then only a few remain.

The Singularity is so small, that time is balanced to infinite mass, so that the string has time to go through all the elements of the remaining two previous Universes.
Click to expand...
That has zero to do with what I wrote. No singularity with Uncertainty. Try reading.
 
I really don't understand why so many posters seem to be missing the actual issue here.
 
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