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Fair Tax?

PIPEWRENCH

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I'd go with a 15.3% tax rate on the 1st $50K which would total a max of $7,650.
I'd also retain the progressive tax rate.
20.0% on next $50K $10,000 $17,650 max tax
25.0% on next $100K $25,000 $42,650 max tax
30.0% on next $200K $60,000 $102,650 max tax
35.0% on all over $400K


this wasnt bad......copied from Individual

but here are my adjustments
0-40,000 in income.....5% tax.......just so everyone has a stake in the game
40,001-60000.....18% tax
60,001-80000.... 23% tax
80,001-100k....29% tax
100-250k....35% tax
250k-1m.....40% tax
over 1m.....50% tax

This must also come with a corp tax of 27%

And a congressional mandate of a balanced budget.....you only get to spend what you have as revenues

We have a spending problem.....this will address some of the revenue, but until we address the spending nothing will change
There are a lot of solutions to the tax problem without question. The problem is our government uses taxes and deductions to make us do what they want. Plus no changes will come that will not benefit the rich and powerful who fund the parties and control our leaders. They don't work for us because we don't fund the parties.
 

Individual

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There are a lot of solutions to the tax problem without question. The problem is our government uses taxes and deductions to make us do what they want. Plus no changes will come that will not benefit the rich and powerful who fund the parties and control our leaders. They don't work for us because we don't fund the parties.
You have a point, which is why I feel a solution would be easier if we could first repeal the 16th and 17th amendments, and require State governments to impose taxation upon their citizens/residents/businesses.
 

Jay59

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That's the purpose off having a discussion, to develop a plan.

When I do, I present them.

And it appears your decision is to do nothing.
My decision is to acknowledge this is a difficult issue.

Generalities are not going to cut any cheese.
 

Individual

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My decision is to acknowledge this is a difficult issue.

Generalities are not going to cut any cheese.
Yes, it is a difficult issue.

If you have nothing productive to contribute, no problem.
 

PIPEWRENCH

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You have a point, which is why I feel a solution would be easier if we could first repeal the 16th and 17th amendments, and require State governments to impose taxation upon their citizens/residents/businesses.
The first thing we need to do is take control of our government. We need to remove all the money given to the parties by the rich and powerful. No more bought and paid for party puppets owned by the rich and powerful masquerading as our leaders. We don't need parties we need leaders. Instead we need good honest people willing to serve the people and this country. No more career politicians whose only interest is making millions even 100s of millions of dollars masquerading as our leaders when in reality they are nothing but corrupt party puppets. The sad reality is there are millions of good people who would be happy to serve their country not the rich and powerful. Then and only then will we have leaders instead of these bought and paid for party puppets who work for the rich and powerful. Then we won't have to fix anything because good honest leaders will do it automatically.
 

Individual

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The first thing we need to do is take control of our government. We need to remove all the money given to the parties by the rich and powerful. No more bought and paid for party puppets owned by the rich and powerful masquerading as our leaders. We don't need parties we need leaders. Instead we need good honest people willing to serve the people and this country. No more career politicians whose only interest is making millions even 100s of millions of dollars masquerading as our leaders when in reality they are nothing but corrupt party puppets. The sad reality is there are millions of good people who would be happy to serve their country not the rich and powerful. Then and only then will we have leaders instead of these bought and paid for party puppets who work for the rich and powerful. Then we won't have to fix anything because good honest leaders will do it automatically.
Perhaps would be a good topic for another thread.
 

PIPEWRENCH

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Perhaps would be a good topic for another thread.
It would except the sad reality is it won't do any good as long as the clueless are cheering their team on like this was the World Series or some game instead of reality.
 

Gateman_Wen

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Here is an alternate plan for a fair tax.

First $50,000 tax free

All income, earned and unearned, taxed at the same rate. All deductions eliminated.

Social Security and Medicare and all other payroll taxes eliminated. Funds come from the general fund.

The tax rate is set as to what is required to balance the federal budget. If spending goes down your taxes go down. If congress spends more money your taxes go up.

Federal withholding eliminated. Quarterly every American writes a check to the IRS for their estimated federal income tax. That way every American sees what taxes are costing them. May bring about accountability in our elected officials.

Needs a little fleshing out as to how to tax those who choose to hide their assets offshore. At the very least any income from investments or commerce in the U.S. should be taxed.
That's a recipe for a cash economy and mattresses stuffed with money.
 

Individual

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It would except the sad reality is it won't do any good as long as the clueless are cheering their team on like this was the World Series or some game instead of reality.
My only question is, have you anything productive to contribute to this thread?
 

Individual

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I'd go with a 15.3% tax rate on the 1st $50K which would total a max of $7,650.
I'd also retain the progressive tax rate.
20.0% on next $50K $10,000 $17,650 max tax
25.0% on next $100K $25,000 $42,650 max tax
30.0% on next $200K $60,000 $102,650 max tax
35.0% on all over $400K


this wasnt bad......copied from Individual

but here are my adjustments
0-40,000 in income.....5% tax.......just so everyone has a stake in the game
40,001-60000.....18% tax
60,001-80000.... 23% tax
80,001-100k....29% tax
100-250k....35% tax
250k-1m.....40% tax
over 1m.....50% tax

This must also come with a corp tax of 27%

And a congressional mandate of a balanced budget.....you only get to spend what you have as revenues

We have a spending problem.....this will address some of the revenue, but until we address the spending nothing will change
Seems that only you and I are willing to discuss the thread issue, though I felt the thread creator made some interesting comments in the OP.
Looking at the current tax tables along with looking at the revenue collected by quintile in FY2019 I made some major adjustments.
Tax1.png
 

gdgyva

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Seems that only you and I are willing to discuss the thread issue, though I felt the thread creator made some interesting comments in the OP.
Looking at the current tax tables along with looking at the revenue collected by quintile in FY2019 I made some major adjustments.
View attachment 67433915
i saw the post

and you saw mine

we need to boost revenue....but that isnt the main issue

we need to reduce spending, and BALANCE THE BUDGET

at some point, my grandchildren, or their kids will face a planet where every country's credit has imploded from too much debt

i cant even imagine all the pain that will cause....but i am glad i wont be around to have to deal with it

someone has to be an adult....we need to stop spending like a bunch of drunk sailors on leave after a 6 month tour

booze and hookers for all.....
 

Individual

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i saw the post

and you saw mine

we need to boost revenue....but that isnt the main issue

we need to reduce spending, and BALANCE THE BUDGET

at some point, my grandchildren, or their kids will face a planet where every country's credit has imploded from too much debt

i cant even imagine all the pain that will cause....but i am glad i wont be around to have to deal with it

someone has to be an adult....we need to stop spending like a bunch of drunk sailors on leave after a 6 month tour

booze and hookers for all.....
I agree wholly with that.

And in my post #10 responding to you "As for the spending issue, IMO, the 16th and 17th amendments are the primary impediment to achieving a solution."

My 6th grade teacher, 75 years ago, frequently warned us about the consequences born upon us as a result of Wilson in 1913, with passage of the Federal Reserve4 Act and the 16th and 17th amendments to our Constitution.
 

Individual

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the the going rate is lower than your tax rate your mattress is earning you money.
Since October, the USD has devalued about 18% so unless your bank pays no interest at all, your mattress is earning you nothing at all.
 

Individual

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And a 30% sales tax is a recipe for a barter economy.
Let's stick to your thread topic and OP, which I found to be a workable beginning.
From that, I feel the below might begin to accomplish some of what I found reasonable in your OP.

1. Eliminate the employer contribution to FICA tax along with a mandatory 9% hourly wage increase to only those non-salaried employees.
2. A minimum Federal income tax of 15.3% would be applied, greater only by employee request.

3. Each individual with income from any/all sources equal to or greater than $1,000 would be required to file a tax return.
4. A 5 tiered progressive Federal tax rate would permanently begin at a 15.3% rate, initially applied to the 1st $50,000 of income.
5. The following 4 tiers would permanently be applied in $50,000 increments of 20%, 25%, 30%, and 37%.

6. The ONLY way government would be allowed to increase/decrease tax revenue would be by a flat percentage increase/decrease applied to the tax owed.
eg.
A 1% tax increase would increase the tax of someone earning $50,000 from $7,650 to $7,727 or $77.
A 1% tax increase would increase the tax of someone earning $200,000 from $45,150 to $45,602 or $452.
A 1% tax increase would increase the tax of someone earning $500,000 from $156,150 to $157,712 or $1,562.
A 1% tax increase would increase the tax of someone earning $5,000,000 from $1,821,150 to $1,839,362 or $18,212

Everyone would be affected equally percentage wise by tax increases/decreases.
 

Individual

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A flat tax rate is the only fair way to tax.
I could work with that.
A flat 37% tax along with a standard deduction of:
incomes of $50,000 or less a 59% deduction
incomes of $100,000 or less a 53% deduction
incomes of $150,000 or less a 46% deduction
incomes of $200,000 or less a 39% deduction
incomes of more than $200,000 no deduction
 

rickc

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Let's stick to your thread topic and OP, which I found to be a workable beginning.
From that, I feel the below might begin to accomplish some of what I found reasonable in your OP.

1. Eliminate the employer contribution to FICA tax along with a mandatory 9% hourly wage increase to only those non-salaried employees.
2. A minimum Federal income tax of 15.3% would be applied, greater only by employee request.

3. Each individual with income from any/all sources equal to or greater than $1,000 would be required to file a tax return.
4. A 5 tiered progressive Federal tax rate would permanently begin at a 15.3% rate, initially applied to the 1st $50,000 of income.
5. The following 4 tiers would permanently be applied in $50,000 increments of 20%, 25%, 30%, and 37%.

6. The ONLY way government would be allowed to increase/decrease tax revenue would be by a flat percentage increase/decrease applied to the tax owed.
eg.
A 1% tax increase would increase the tax of someone earning $50,000 from $7,650 to $7,727 or $77.
A 1% tax increase would increase the tax of someone earning $200,000 from $45,150 to $45,602 or $452.
A 1% tax increase would increase the tax of someone earning $500,000 from $156,150 to $157,712 or $1,562.
A 1% tax increase would increase the tax of someone earning $5,000,000 from $1,821,150 to $1,839,362 or $18,212

Everyone would be affected equally percentage wise by tax increases/decreases.

So you want to tax a group of Americans 15.3% that doesn't even make enought money now to pay any tax.

Eliminate the employer contribution to fica tax?

Will all income, earned and unearned, be taxed at your rates?
 

Individual

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So you want to tax a group of Americans 15.3% that doesn't even make enought money now to pay any tax.

Eliminate the employer contribution to fica tax?

Will all income, earned and unearned, be taxed at your rates?
If they're working they're paying half their FICA tax, and I would increase hourly wage rates 9% and have them pay the full FICA tax as their total income tax. They would see no ta increase at all, unless their income grew to more than $50,000.
And yes, ALL sources of income would be combined and treated the same.
 

PeteEU

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America's problem is you don't pay enough taxes AND have far too much waste and corruption in the system that pushes up costs. The nr. 1 place being healthcare. That alone is responsible for a huge portion of your problems as you allow medical cartels to dictate prices.

But instead of looking at the tax rate, you need to look at the effective tax rate and here you will see that especially the rich and big corporations don't pay a dime in taxes. Hell many get money back.

So deductions are the main problem at the moment on the tax side.

Another issue is what Americans see as middle class. This of course depends on where you are, but a person earning 250k ain't middle class ...they be rich.

The average is around 55k a year. Anyone earning 5 times that is rich, not middle class. Anyone earning 400+k is very rich.

Add in the fact, that the wealthy don't earn a wage income, but earn most of their income via the stock market..which is taxed way lower, the frankly the whole system is rigged for the rich against the poor and middle class.
 

Individual

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Flat tax is a give away to the rich.
They'd be paying a flat 37% with no deductions at all in my plan. A sizeable deduction would exist on incomes up to $200,000.
 

PeteEU

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They'd be paying a flat 37% with no deductions at all in my plan. A sizeable deduction would exist on incomes up to $200,000.
Average income is 54k, so you would be giving deductions to most of the US population and probably crushing the tax income even more.

And let's be honest here. The wealthy earn most of their income via the stock market, which is taxed at most by 20%. And that is if they sell. In most cases they just get a loan, which they can deduct from taxes and use that to live off.
 
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