Fair play in Nevada? Objective people may have justifiable doubts.

[Risky Thicket]

Straight up and honest, I haven't liked Hillary from day one. I like her even less now. There is no way in hell I would support the Democratic Party nor the DNC. My vote will never go to Clinton. My money will never go to the Democratic Party.

Watch the video above objectively and tell me you'd be fine with all elections being railroaded in this manner. The actions of the Democratic Party in Nevada and the actions and words of Debbie Wasserman-Schultz all but guarantee that there will be many Sanders supporters who will not vote for Hillary.

Trump may win not in spite of the Democratic Party but because of it.

 

[reinoe]

Straight up and honest, I haven't liked Hillary from day one. I like her even less now. There is no way in hell I would support the Democratic Party nor the DNC. My vote will never go to Clinton. My money will never go to the Democratic Party.

Watch the video above objectively and tell me you'd be fine with all elections being railroaded in this manner. The actions of the Democratic Party in Nevada and the actions and words of Debbie Wasserman-Schultz all but guarantee that there will be many Sanders supporters who will not vote for Hillary.

Trump may win not in spite of the Democratic Party but because of it.

If that grinds your gears then you ought to know that Hillary cheated to win the caucuses as well.

There were caucuses set up in various casinos, however the employees obviously can't vote during the caucus times. So Harry Reid made some calls to the casino owners, the owners gave the employees previously unannounced time in which to vote, and they voted overwhelmingly for Clinton. Keep in mind that most of these employees were still union, so what that means is that they showed up, were required to wear Clinton shirts so that they could be identified, and then voted as the unions demanded. These are unions after all and the caucuses were public i.e. people who didn't vote "the right way" had their jobs in jeopardy.

Again, Hillary Clinton is nothing without the machine behind her.

edit: on a tangent but Barbara Boxer, who has no connection to Nevada at all, was brought in to speak on Hillary's behalf at the Dem State convention in Nevada. What an insult.

 

[calm]

I thought that these two commentaries were pretty good.

The Democratic Party’s Utterly Undemocratic Convention in Nevada; How Progressives Conspire to Thwart Progress
The Nevada Democratic Convention ended in chaos Saturday, after 16 hours of backroom dealing by party hacks to produce the desired result: Nevada is Hillary country. In one of the most flagrant examples of vote fixing in this election cycle, state bosses scuttled the party’s own rules and ran roughshod over any semblance of fairness in the Clinton-Sanders battle for delegates. It was a patently fraudulent process that yielded a fraudulent result, but it appears to sit well with the Democratic Party leadership, which is decidedly pro-Clinton.
Dr. James Petras, Bartle professor emeritus of sociology at Binghamton University and author of more than 62 books and 600 scholarly papers on imperialism and global oppression, notes that “progressives” have a sordid history of offering themselves as alternatives to the system when in fact they are political acolytes working with the system to thwart progress.
Leid Stories
Host Utrice Leid
May 16, 2016
Leid Stories » Leid Stories - The Democratic Party?s Utterly Undemocratic Convention in Nevada; How Progressives Conspire to Thwart Progress - 05.16.16
The Official James Petras website » Democratic Party Primaries: “Progressives” as Political Contraceptives
The Official James Petras website » Presidential Elections 2016: The Revolt of the Masses
The Official James Petras website » Clinton and Trump: Nuclearized or Lobotomized?
(.MP3 Format)
http://leidstories.podbean.com/mf/web/fx2xbh/LeidStories_051616.mp3

What Happened at the Democratic Party’s Convention in Nevada
The Democratic Party has not yet officially reacted to widespread charges that its chaotic May 14 state convention in Las Vegas was rigged to produce a delegate victory for Hillary Clinton. But the party’s silence is stoking an avalanche of protest, especially among Bernie Sanders supporters,who have ramped up their campaign calling attention to myriad ways in which party bosses have been sabotaging Sanders’ candidacy.
Leid Stories
Host Utrice Leid
May 17, 2016
http://leidstories.podbean.com/e/le...emocratic-party’s-convention-in-nevada-051716
(.MP3 Format)
http://leidstories.podbean.com/mf/web/q9dkjy/LeidStories_051716.mp3

Calm

 

[Unitedwestand13]

I think a local reporter has a good idea of what happened in Nevada.

https://www.ralstonreports.com/blog/sour-grapes-revolution-rocked-paris-hotel

 

[X Factor]

Straight up and honest, I haven't liked Hillary from day one. I like her even less now. There is no way in hell I would support the Democratic Party nor the DNC. My vote will never go to Clinton. My money will never go to the Democratic Party.

Watch the video above objectively and tell me you'd be fine with all elections being railroaded in this manner. The actions of the Democratic Party in Nevada and the actions and words of Debbie Wasserman-Schultz all but guarantee that there will be many Sanders supporters who will not vote for Hillary.

Trump may win not in spite of the Democratic Party but because of it.

That's funny, Risky, what you say about about not sending money to the DNC. I came to that same conclusion regarding the RNC earlier this year.

Maybe we have more in common with the "other side" than we think.

 

[Risky Thicket]

That's funny, Risky, what you say about about not sending money to the DNC. I came to that same conclusion regarding the RNC earlier this year.

Maybe we have more in common with the "other side" than we think.

I'm ready. Let's start our own party. How about "The Ratherbe Party"? Rather be this than anything else.

 

[FieldTheorist]

Straight up and honest, I haven't liked Hillary from day one. I like her even less now. There is no way in hell I would support the Democratic Party nor the DNC. My vote will never go to Clinton. My money will never go to the Democratic Party.

Watch the video above objectively and tell me you'd be fine with all elections being railroaded in this manner. The actions of the Democratic Party in Nevada and the actions and words of Debbie Wasserman-Schultz all but guarantee that there will be many Sanders supporters who will not vote for Hillary.

Trump may win not in spite of the Democratic Party but because of it.

You haven't even gotten to the part where CNN and DNC mouth pieces (including, obviously, the supremely unbiased Wasserman Schultz) are now starting to wage a war against Bernie Sanders --because again he's personally responsible for all of his supporters just like Hillary was completely responsible for famous actor Wendell Pierce physically assaulted Sanders supporters for being Sanders supporters-- and has "refused to speak out against any violence" despite the fact that:

1.) There are no reported incidents of violence. There was, however, reported incidents of the DNC chairwoman totally using extra-parlimentary procedures (namely, ignoring votes) to get her way.

2.) The only "facts" we have are that two people left threats of violence against the DNC chairwoman, but for all we know Donald Trump supporters or Hillary Clinton's "correct the record" decided this would be a great way to smear Sanders.

3.) And most importantly, he has already come out and said that his movement is nonviolent and does not condone violence.​

Despite that, we have horse**** peddlers like this and CNN anchors are running around saying Sanders is a vile monster for not denouncing violence he already denounced without even knowing it was really his supporters.



But you know what really burns my ass at the end of all of this? The various forms of cheating, rigging, and "extra-parlimentary procedures" are so overt and clear, most sane Clinton supporters don't deny it; instead, they want to assure us that, you know, whatever it doesn't matter because she would have won anyways, so why do you care so much? What does it matter if the DNC makes a mockery of American democracy and the head of the DNC openly rigs the system to her preferred candidates' favor?

I just... I am so done with the Democratic party. The second that the July convention concludes, I will be changing my party affiliation to Green. I recommend anyone that is still furious with the system and wants a place for the revolution to continue. If Trump wins, then Trump wins and it'll be because of the DNC.

 

[Removable Mind]

Straight up and honest, I haven't liked Hillary from day one. I like her even less now. There is no way in hell I would support the Democratic Party nor the DNC. My vote will never go to Clinton. My money will never go to the Democratic Party.

Watch the video above objectively and tell me you'd be fine with all elections being railroaded in this manner. The actions of the Democratic Party in Nevada and the actions and words of Debbie Wasserman-Schultz all but guarantee that there will be many Sanders supporters who will not vote for Hillary.

Trump may win not in spite of the Democratic Party but because of it.

Too-Shay, my friend...as one of our old friends from CHB would put it. Nay a penny of my money will go to the Dem party, local, state, or national.

Oh, and who's Hillary?

 

[Removable Mind]

That's funny, Risky, what you say about about not sending money to the DNC. I came to that same conclusion regarding the RNC earlier this year.

Maybe we have more in common with the "other side" than we think.

I'm with you and Risky on the "The Ratherbe Party"? Rather be this than anything else. Both parties do sucketh.

 

[Chomsky]

That's funny, Risky, what you say about about not sending money to the DNC. I came to that same conclusion regarding the RNC earlier this year.

Maybe we have more in common with the "other side" than we think.

Hell, I've been saying all of the above for years, decades actually. And I spent quite a few years in the precincts organizing and getting the vote out for my then party, 'till I saw the light.

The parties divide us and feed us bull**** and fears, in order to reap the spoils of their remaining in power. They will tell us anything and sell us even more, to keep us from uniting.

No matter how much you don't like the other guy's politics, he's still a fellow American. So educate him if you can, or learn from him if you need to - because he's got a vote too, and he's going to use it just as you are.

When our parents, grandparents, or great grandparents landed on these shores they chucked their former nation's identity, swore an oath to the Constitution, and became Americans. It's about time we as a nation start holding our American identity as our highest call, rather than be Dems, Rebubs, Liberals, Conservatives.

"American" should be the only identity and allegiance that matters.

 

[Risky Thicket]

I'm with you and Risky on the "The Ratherbe Party"? Rather be this than anything else. Both parties do sucketh.

You know, RM, the other thing about this that puts a thistle up my kilt is seeing the media and Trump and Hillary supporters excusing it all by saying, "It may not be pretty but that's the way democracy works." **** that! What happened in Nevada isn't democracy. Hell, the superdelgate scam isn't democracy.

That's really the point isn't it? It is why Trump and Sanders have done surprisingly well. Many, many Americans want democracy to return to the United States. The freaking establishment is not democracy.

"That's democracy." No! Saying that is peeing on my leg and telling me it's raining. I'm no genius but I'm not that stupid either.

 

[reinoe]

You know, RM, the other thing about this that puts a thistle up my kilt is seeing the media and Trump and Hillary supporters excusing it all by saying, "It may not be pretty but that's the way democracy works..

If I may interject...

In no way shape or form has Trump or any of his supporters or advocates said that the DNC screwing over Sanders is "Democracy". If anything Trump and his supporters have been sympathetic to Sanders getting cheated seeing as how Trump himself has to battle the GOP establishment trying to rig the process.

 

[FieldTheorist]

This also needs to be said:

I don't feel any kinship to the Democratic party anymore, and while I was loyal to Obama for the first year or two, I became increasingly disillusioned. By the time I voted for him again in 2012, I was pretty disgusted by the Democratic party and their total lack of commitment to Obama's campaign promises. I became more politically involved again in 2013 and on wards... And man, the Democratic party is a joke. No wonder people have been leaving in droves and declaring themselves as Independents. The only part I object to about that is that I'm serious that the Green party is going to be the necessary platform for any serious discussion of change and Sanders revolution.

The Democrats are firmly committed to Republican campaigning tactics, Republican foreign policy, and corporate donors. Fine, so they don't attack minorities and women (Well, unless they're voting for Sanders, then they're going straight to hell, obviously). Is that something to be proud of? Is that a satisfactory level of prerequisites that a party has to meet now in order to be considered a good, sensible, moral party?

I just... I'm done guys. As soon as the DNC reads Sanders his walking papers in July... I'm done with the DNC, the Democratic party, and those delightful Democratic party Loyalists can have it all back to themselves. Enjoy.

 

[FieldTheorist]

Hell, I've been saying all of the above for years, decades actually. And I spent quite a few years in the precincts organizing and getting the vote out for my then party, 'till I saw the light.

The parties divide us and feed us bull**** and fears, in order to reap the spoils of their remaining in power. They will tell us anything and sell us even more, to keep us from uniting.

No matter how much you don't like the other guy's politics, he's still a fellow American. So educate him if you can, or learn from him if you need to - because he's got a vote too, and he's going to use it just as you are.

When our parents, grandparents, or great grandparents landed on these shores they chucked their former nation's identity, swore an oath to the Constitution, and became Americans. It's about time we as a nation start holding our American identity as our highest call, rather than be Dems, Rebubs, Liberals, Conservatives.

"American" should be the only identity and allegiance that matters.

I agree with that in principle and I'm pretty disgusted by the two party state that the US now sits under, but you aren't going to remove parties or their power for some time. This is why I'm advocating for the Green party. My remaining loyalty to the Democratic party has identically the same shelf-life as the Sanders campaign. Once that's over, I'm going to be rooting for the Greens and hard. Maybe one day we can get rid of political parties, but first the disenfranchised have to organize.

 

[Removable Mind]

You know, RM, the other thing about this that puts a thistle up my kilt is seeing the media and Trump and Hillary supporters excusing it all by saying, "It may not be pretty but that's the way democracy works." **** that! What happened in Nevada isn't democracy. Hell, the superdelgate scam isn't democracy.

That's really the point isn't it? It is why Trump and Sanders have done surprisingly well. Many, many Americans want democracy to return to the United States. The freaking establishment is not democracy.

"That's democracy." No! Saying that is peeing on my leg and telling me it's raining. I'm no genius but I'm not that stupid either.

I agree. And people from opposing sides want to cry foul that their party is holy and the other side just ****s on it, yadda yadda yadda. But these MUTHERS are in it together. Both SIDES.

Both parties have done everything possible to usurp the right of the people to select their representatives in a fair way. The Super Delegates, Gerrymander, and voting laws that are popping up like poppies in Afghanistan to control voters - and those games are far from all of the conniving ways that candidates even make their way just into primaries. And they don't account for all the unethical ways that elected officials winds up going to the big show.

Like Elizabeth Warren has said repeatedly and loudly, the game is rigged.

 

[Chomsky]

If I may interject...

In no way shape or form has Trump or any of his supporters or advocates said that the DNC screwing over Sanders is "Democracy". If anything Trump and his supporters have been sympathetic to Sanders getting cheated seeing as how Trump himself has to battle the GOP establishment trying to rig the process.

The smartest thing I think Trump can do, is reachout to the Sander's disaffected. If he can sell them (and his GOP crew) that their anti-establishment disenfranchisement is foremost over their political spectrum differences, he might be unstoppable. Trump's a good salesman; he might have a shot at it.

 

[FieldTheorist]

The smartest thing I think Trump can do, is reachout to the Sander's disaffected. If he can sell them (and his GOP crew) that their anti-establishment disenfranchisement is foremost over their political spectrum differences, he might be unstoppable. Trump's a good salesman; he might have a shot at it.

I agree, but he's utterly failing to do this. He's already committed to taking massive corporate donations, so he's going to turn himself into being just as bought as Hillary. That'll render one of his important selling points very moot. Also, what the **** was he thinking a week ago when he decided to go on a random ad hominem tirade against Bernie? Trump is a such a goof. If Hillary wanted to win, all she would have to do is call Trump "Goofy Trump" and she'd probably cause 10% of his voters to disappear.

 

[Chomsky]

I agree, but he's utterly failing to do this. He's already committed to taking massive corporate donations, so he's going to turn himself into being just as bought as Hillary. That'll render one of his important selling points very moot.

Also Sander's has been beating on Trump pretty steadily, so Bernie's sullied many of his followers mind's on Trump pretty well.

But there's been Reagan Democrats, and I suspect there will be Bernie Trumpers.

I was contemplating being one of them, but now that Trump is tacking so far Right he's freaking me out.

I guess we're going to have to see what his messaging becomes in the general. Right now he may be giving lip-service to unite the party (which he obviously must do, firstly).

 

[Removable Mind]

This also needs to be said:

I don't feel any kinship to the Democratic party anymore, and while I was loyal to Obama for the first year or two, I became increasingly disillusioned. By the time I voted for him again in 2012, I was pretty disgusted by the Democratic party and their total lack of commitment to Obama's campaign promises. I became more politically involved again in 2013 and on wards... And man, the Democratic party is a joke. No wonder people have been leaving in droves and declaring themselves as Independents. The only part I object to about that is that I'm serious that the Green party is going to be the necessary platform for any serious discussion of change and Sanders revolution.

The Democrats are firmly committed to Republican campaigning tactics, Republican foreign policy, and corporate donors. Fine, so they don't attack minorities and women (Well, unless they're voting for Sanders, then they're going straight to hell, obviously). Is that something to be proud of? Is that a satisfactory level of prerequisites that a party has to meet now in order to be considered a good, sensible, moral party?

I just... I'm done guys. As soon as the DNC reads Sanders his walking papers in July... I'm done with the DNC, the Democratic party, and those delightful Democratic party Loyalists can have it all back to themselves. Enjoy.

Obama - clever, clever dude, but in so many wrong ways. He lit up nations when he was running. Then came into office with one of the worst financial crisis in decades and did NOTHING to go after those responsible, which, by the way INCLUDES Bill Clinton. And to date, virtually all of the laws that had prevented for decade the very thing happened that allow the crisis to rear its ugly head in 2008, were basically overturned by two laws, signed by Clinton and are still in effect today.

Obama has had every opportunity to tell the truth, with all of the transparency he promised...expose exactly what happened and he INSTANTLY BECAME "ONE OF THEM". Don't know who that Obama is...

And for everything else you said...ditto...I'm done as well.

 

[Chomsky]

I agree, but he's utterly failing to do this. He's already committed to taking massive corporate donations, so he's going to turn himself into being just as bought as Hillary. That'll render one of his important selling points very moot. Also, what the **** was he thinking a week ago when he decided to go on a random ad hominem tirade against Bernie? Trump is a such a goof. If Hillary wanted to win, all she would have to do is call Trump "Goofy Trump" and she'd probably cause 10% of his voters to disappear.

I'm going to revisit the bolded in this post:

No, I disagree. The difference here is Trump needs the money to ascend to office, but he does not need the money to sustain himself or his lifestyle. He can walk away from all this; the other politicos can't - their fortune arises from their political position.

Who knows what Trump will do, but unlike other politicians I don't see his taking money as necessarily indicative of favors to later be bestowed. It could be, but in his case not necessarily.

 

[FieldTheorist]

I'm going to revisit the bolded in this post:

No, I disagree. The difference here is Trump needs the money to ascend to office, but he does not need the money to sustain himself or his lifestyle. He can walk away from all this; the other politicos can't - their fortune arises from their political position.

Who knows what Trump will do, but unlike other politicians I don't see his taking money as necessarily indicative of favors to later be bestowed. It could be, but in his case not necessarily.

Sorry, but I just can't see how this argument makes sense. Trump ran his primary without cash, fine. But now he's about to be loaded down in donor debt. If he wants to win a second time... Yeah, he'll follow exactly what they tell him to do like literally everyone else who's run for office in the last 40 years. John McCain is a pretty honorable person (with a few deep character flaws, sure), but when he ran for office in 2008, the man sounded like he was Darth Cheney. So yes, that money influences everyone, even including people who've fought for campaign finance reform like McCain.

Secondly, when asked about campaign donations, Trump literally said that he gave money to both sides because he "knew how the game was played" and he knew that "they picked up the phones" when he called. So he has a crystal clear picture of what taking a campaign contribution means to him.

Will he go against the tides? He could, but Clinton supporters argued the same thing about her. But I don't see any evidence in either Clinton or Trump's record that suggests that they seriously aren't affected by the money.

 

[Sherman123]

Straight up and honest, I haven't liked Hillary from day one. I like her even less now. There is no way in hell I would support the Democratic Party nor the DNC. My vote will never go to Clinton. My money will never go to the Democratic Party.

Watch the video above objectively and tell me you'd be fine with all elections being railroaded in this manner. The actions of the Democratic Party in Nevada and the actions and words of Debbie Wasserman-Schultz all but guarantee that there will be many Sanders supporters who will not vote for Hillary.

Trump may win not in spite of the Democratic Party but because of it.

That looks like a completely unbiased account of what occurred.

 

[Chomsky]

Sorry, but I just can't see how this argument makes sense. Trump ran his primary without cash, fine. But now he's about to be loaded down in donor debt. If he wants to win a second time... Yeah, he'll follow exactly what they tell him to do like literally everyone else who's run for office in the last 40 years. John McCain is a pretty honorable person (with a few deep character flaws, sure), but when he ran for office in 2008, the man sounded like he was Darth Cheney. So yes, that money influences everyone, even including people who've fought for campaign finance reform like McCain.

Secondly, when asked about campaign donations, Trump literally said that he gave money to both sides because he "knew how the game was played" and he knew that "they picked up the phones" when he called. So he has a crystal clear picture of what taking a campaign contribution means to him.

Will he go against the tides? He could, but Clinton supporters argued the same thing about her. But I don't see any evidence in either Clinton or Trump's record that suggests that they seriously aren't affected by the money.

In light of your bolded ("run a 2nd time"), you might have a point.

Though this might be at least brought into question if he effectively uses to bully pulpit and wins over the populace. I dunno; can a popular president today run for 2nd term effectively without donation pandering? Maybe not!

 

[reinoe]

Sorry, but I just can't see how this argument makes sense. Trump ran his primary without cash, fine. But now he's about to be loaded down in donor debt. If he wants to win a second time... Yeah, he'll follow exactly what they tell him to do like literally everyone else who's run for office in the last 40 years. John McCain is a pretty honorable person (with a few deep character flaws, sure), but when he ran for office in 2008, the man sounded like he was Darth Cheney. So yes, that money influences everyone, even including people who've fought for campaign finance reform like McCain.

Secondly, when asked about campaign donations, Trump literally said that he gave money to both sides because he "knew how the game was played" and he knew that "they picked up the phones" when he called. So he has a crystal clear picture of what taking a campaign contribution means to him.

Will he go against the tides? He could, but Clinton supporters argued the same thing about her. But I don't see any evidence in either Clinton or Trump's record that suggests that they seriously aren't affected by the money.

Trump cannot be expected to personally finance a billion dollar campaign. It's a non-issue to me. As for the "do as he's told": Trump is far too narcissistic and if he wins the presidency his ego will get even more inflated. He won't take orders from anyone. John McCain has always and will always be a scumbag and a sellout. Knowing how the game is played does not preclude him from wanting to change how the game is played. Business in New York is nearly impossible without making sure the bread gets buttered. He'd never have made it otherwise.

Could Trump go against the tide? That's all he's done this campaign. Could Hillary go against the tide? Not just no but Hell no. She's practically never resisted the tide. Her moral compass is a weathervane.

 

[Risky Thicket]

Trump cannot be expected to personally finance a billion dollar campaign. It's a non-issue to me. As for the "do as he's told": Trump is far too narcissistic and if he wins the presidency his ego will get even more inflated. He won't take orders from anyone. John McCain has always and will always be a scumbag and a sellout. Knowing how the game is played does not preclude him from wanting to change how the game is played. Business in New York is nearly impossible without making sure the bread gets buttered. He'd never have made it otherwise.

Could Trump go against the tide? That's all he's done this campaign. Could Hillary go against the tide? Not just no but Hell no. She's practically never resisted the tide. Her moral compass is a weathervane.

Bravo! Well said.