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Fair Means Equal

jonny5

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Someone tell Biden, because he clearly doesnt know this. Ten times yesterday he said the word fair in his speech praising the tax increases they are ramming through.

Billionaries get richer - not FIAR
Big corps and wealthy have to pay their FAIR share - 7 times
Pandemic present us with an opportunity for working people (rich people dont work) to get a FAIR shot
bring FAIRNESS to the tax code

Let me end with this. This pandemic has been God-awful
for so many reasons: the lost lives — as I said, over 660,000; the jobs, the businesses lost; the lost time in school for our kids.

But it does present us with an opportunity: We can build an economy that gives working people a fair shot this time. We can restore some sanity and fairness to our tax code. We can make the investments that we know are long overdue in this nation.

Thats pretty offensive. Lets use tragedy to soak the rich?

Meanwhile, Tax foundation lists all the new taxes and says they wont even pay for half of the new spending. Not to mention the 3 trillion in debt theyve already done this year. But its early. This is just a bill thats made it out of committee, and will probably be rubber stamped by the House. It may be slowed in the Senate or they may use reconciliation to rubber stamp it over there.

 
Someone tell Biden, because he clearly doesnt know this. Ten times yesterday he said the word fair in his speech praising the tax increases they are ramming through.
I'm sure he does know, and I'm sure it's quite deliberate.
Billionaries get richer - not FIAR
Big corps and wealthy have to pay their FAIR share - 7 times
Pandemic present us with an opportunity for working people (rich people dont work) to get a FAIR shot
bring FAIRNESS to the tax code
All valid points.
Thats pretty offensive. Lets use tragedy to soak the rich?
? No - let's make things fairer.
Meanwhile, Tax foundation lists all the new taxes and says they wont even pay for half of the new spending.
That's entirely beside the point. Even if it only paid for 1/16, that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.
Not to mention the 3 trillion in debt theyve already done this year.
Again - a different issue.
But its early. This is just a bill thats made it out of committee, and will probably be rubber stamped by the House. It may be slowed in the Senate or they may use reconciliation to rubber stamp it over there.
I'm all for that.
 

Someone tell Biden, because he clearly doesnt know this. Ten times yesterday he said the word fair in his speech praising the tax increases they are ramming through.

Billionaries get richer - not FIAR
Big corps and wealthy have to pay their FAIR share - 7 times
Pandemic present us with an opportunity for working people (rich people dont work) to get a FAIR shot
bring FAIRNESS to the tax code



Thats pretty offensive. Lets use tragedy to soak the rich?

Meanwhile, Tax foundation lists all the new taxes and says they wont even pay for half of the new spending. Not to mention the 3 trillion in debt theyve already done this year. But its early. This is just a bill thats made it out of committee, and will probably be rubber stamped by the House. It may be slowed in the Senate or they may use reconciliation to rubber stamp it over there.

Don't listen to what they say...look at what they do.

Anyway, if any politician...whether Dem or Rep...really cared about "fair" regarding taxation they would get rid of every single loophole, deduction, credit, etc., in the tax code and replace it with a simple, progressive tax rate. A very low rate for low income graduating to a higher rate for higher income. That would be "fair".

But that will never happen. Politicians don't care about "fair". They care about their donors and lobbyists.

Don't listen to what they say...look at what they do.
 
Don't listen to what they say...look at what they do.

Anyway, if any politician...whether Dem or Rep...really cared about "fair" regarding taxation they would get rid of every single loophole, deduction, credit, etc., in the tax code and replace it with a simple, progressive tax rate. A very low rate for low income graduating to a higher rate for higher income. That would be "fair".

But that will never happen. Politicians don't care about "fair". They care about their donors and lobbyists.

Don't listen to what they say...look at what they do.

A single progressive rate would also not be equal, and thus not fair. If you stopped at a flat tax you would be closer, but still not equal in terms of every paying the same tax for the same benefit.
 
I think he means fair. He is not calling for things to be equal. Equal applies more to things like treatment under the law which should see absolutely no differences. That isn't what he is proposing when it comes to things like taxes.
 
A single progressive rate would also not be equal, and thus not fair. If you stopped at a flat tax you would be closer, but still not equal in terms of every paying the same tax for the same benefit.
By definition, a progressive rate would not be a single rate, rather a series of rates dependent upon income level.

The problem with a flat tax...that is, everyone paying the same rate...is that it would place more of a relative burden on low income people. There would need to be some loophole to prevent that...and that would defeat the purpose of ending all loopholes.
 
A single progressive rate would also not be equal, and thus not fair. If you stopped at a flat tax you would be closer, but still not equal in terms of every paying the same tax for the same benefit.
Are you actually arguing for a single fixed tax? Like each citizen pays $10,000 a year or something?
 
By definition, a progressive rate would not be a single rate, rather a series of rates dependent upon income level.

The problem with a flat tax...that is, everyone paying the same rate...is that it would place more of a relative burden on low income people. There would need to be some loophole to prevent that...and that would defeat the purpose of ending all loopholes.

Why is that a problem? Should they not share in the burden of funding a massive govt which mainly just spend on them anyway? The lowest income quintiles account for about a trillion in income yet only 15 billion in income tax.
 
Are you actually arguing for a single fixed tax? Like each citizen pays $10,000 a year or something?

No, im pointing out that it is the only FAIR taxation. Its impossible in our current system where govt spends 20% of every dollar produced, and most of it on disincentivizing work for the majority of the populace. A flat percent on wages is a good half measure.
 
Why is that a problem? Should they not share in the burden of funding a massive govt which mainly just spend on them anyway? The lowest income quintiles account for about a trillion in income yet only 15 billion in income tax.
Everyone should share. That's why I support dumping all the loopholes.
 
The problem with a flat tax...that is, everyone paying the same rate...is that it would place more of a relative burden on low income people.

But that's true for everything they buy anyway. Housing, transportation, education, everything is a larger relative burden on low income people. The price of a house stays the same whether the buyer is rich or poor, so why isn't housing unfair but a flat tax is unfair?
 
Everyone should share. That's why I support dumping all the loopholes.

Fine, its at least a step in the right direction. Still unfair, but at least more fair. Of course we know liberals would never let this happen. They want a majority of americans becoming net dependents.
 
But that's true for everything they buy anyway. Housing, transportation, education, everything is a larger relative burden on low income people. The price of a house stays the same whether the buyer is rich or poor, so why isn't housing unfair but a flat tax is unfair?

"it is" which is why the govt takes trillions from us and then give its to the low income for housing, transportation, education. Mostly healthcare.
 

Someone tell Biden, because he clearly doesnt know this. Ten times yesterday he said the word fair in his speech praising the tax increases they are ramming through.

Billionaries get richer - not FIAR
Big corps and wealthy have to pay their FAIR share - 7 times
Pandemic present us with an opportunity for working people (rich people dont work) to get a FAIR shot
bring FAIRNESS to the tax code



Thats pretty offensive. Lets use tragedy to soak the rich?

Meanwhile, Tax foundation lists all the new taxes and says they wont even pay for half of the new spending. Not to mention the 3 trillion in debt theyve already done this year. But its early. This is just a bill thats made it out of committee, and will probably be rubber stamped by the House. It may be slowed in the Senate or they may use reconciliation to rubber stamp it over there.


I agree with President Biden here, I support ramming those tax increases through.
The rich have had a free ride for far too long.
Plus I need to get my 100% FREE BidenCare™ healthcare plan paid for as well.

Steady as she goes Mr. President, you're doing very well!!!
 
But that's true for everything they buy anyway. Housing, transportation, education, everything is a larger relative burden on low income people. The price of a house stays the same whether the buyer is rich or poor, so why isn't housing unfair but a flat tax is unfair?
Irrelevant issues.

One is about what people buy. That is only...or should be only...a function of the market. Supply and demand.

The other is about the government taking money from people to fund government spending. The government should be fair about how they tax people...whether they are rich or poor.

I think I gave an explanation about why a flat tax is unfair or not desirable because it will require loopholes.
 
Irrelevant issues.

One is about what people buy. That is only...or should be only...a function of the market. Supply and demand.

The other is about the government taking money from people to fund government spending. The government should be fair about how they tax people...whether they are rich or poor.

I think I gave an explanation about why a flat tax is unfair or not desirable because it will require loopholes.

It only really needs one loophole. A standard deduction for everyone, equal. Rich or poor, no one pays taxes on the first 10 of income, lets say. After that, 10%. Still not fair, but a little fairer. And more fair than a progressive tax.
 
It only really needs one loophole. A standard deduction for everyone, equal. Rich or poor, no one pays taxes on the first 10 of income, lets say. After that, 10%. Still not fair, but a little fairer. And more fair than a progressive tax.
shrug...

I really don't have a problem with a flat tax, but I don't have a problem with a progressive tax, either. My main issue is loopholes. I see them as the result of various interests buying favors from Congress. That doesn't belong in any tax code.
 
I agree with President Biden here, I support ramming those tax increases through.
The rich have had a free ride for far too long.
The top 10% of income-earners pay more than 70% of all income taxes.

Capture.JPG

That's a pretty funny lookin' "free ride."
 

Someone tell Biden, because he clearly doesnt know this. Ten times yesterday he said the word fair in his speech praising the tax increases they are ramming through.

Billionaries get richer - not FIAR
Big corps and wealthy have to pay their FAIR share - 7 times
Pandemic present us with an opportunity for working people (rich people dont work) to get a FAIR shot
bring FAIRNESS to the tax code



Thats pretty offensive. Lets use tragedy to soak the rich?

Meanwhile, Tax foundation lists all the new taxes and says they wont even pay for half of the new spending. Not to mention the 3 trillion in debt theyve already done this year. But its early. This is just a bill thats made it out of committee, and will probably be rubber stamped by the House. It may be slowed in the Senate or they may use reconciliation to rubber stamp it over there.


The same old recycled Obama talking points and nonsense except Biden whispers, it's time the wealthy should pay their fair share. :cautious:
 
Don't listen to what they say...look at what they do.

Anyway, if any politician...whether Dem or Rep...really cared about "fair" regarding taxation they would get rid of every single loophole, deduction, credit, etc., in the tax code and replace it with a simple, progressive tax rate. A very low rate for low income graduating to a higher rate for higher income. That would be "fair".

But that will never happen. Politicians don't care about "fair". They care about their donors and lobbyists.

Don't listen to what they say...look at what they do.
how is a progressive rate fair? it only encourages the government to pander to the many by saying only top brackets will be raised. A flat tax means if the government wants to spend more-everyone will pay more.
 
shrug...

I really don't have a problem with a flat tax, but I don't have a problem with a progressive tax, either. My main issue is loopholes. I see them as the result of various interests buying favors from Congress. That doesn't belong in any tax code.
my issue is all the extra constitutional powers that congress grabs with a progressive tax scheme. People who pay more actual dollars shouldn't pay higher rates
 
A single progressive rate would also not be equal, and thus not fair. If you stopped at a flat tax you would be closer, but still not equal in terms of every paying the same tax for the same benefit.
Income tax rates are based on what the individual can afford to pay. That is the only "fair" tax rate.
 
Income tax rates are based on what the individual can afford to pay. That is the only "fair" tax rate.
that's bullshit. the poor can afford to pay more, the middle class can afford to pay more. Using that nonsense, you can claim the rich should be left in the same position as the poorest citizens after taxes. You lefties seem to think that you all contribute equally to society without paying taxes. You don't. No one should be forced to fund your existence.
 
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