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Failed Attempt to Save Donald from Himself

Chomsky

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That's an interesting article - thank you for posting it! :thumbs:

So for me (if accurate), the takeaway seems to be:

- Trump has one mode, is fearful of changing it, and is unhappy and uncomfortable in any other mode.

- Even when he understands and agrees to change, he just can't seem to do it.

Pretty wild, but this doesn't sound like good qualities for a President.
 

TheGoverness

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That's an interesting article - thank you for posting it! :thumbs:

So for me (if accurate), the takeaway seems to be:

- Trump has one mode, is fearful of changing it, and is unhappy and uncomfortable in any other mode.

- Even when he understands and agrees to change, he just can't seem to do it.

Pretty wild, but this doesn't sound like good qualities for a President.

Basically. Trump can't seem to break from that vicious cycle of his. And I'll admit that it helped him in the GOP primaries, but it's beginning to backfire on him and his chances in the general election.
 

beerftw

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That's an interesting article - thank you for posting it! :thumbs:

So for me (if accurate), the takeaway seems to be:

- Trump has one mode, is fearful of changing it, and is unhappy and uncomfortable in any other mode.

- Even when he understands and agrees to change, he just can't seem to do it.

Pretty wild, but this doesn't sound like good qualities for a President.

Trump though needs to change, his conspiracy bs is hurting him, granted he is climbing back up in the polls, he could do way better. Some liberal analysists have feared one thing, if trump moves away from conspiracy bs and back to his populist message, he could sweep the rust belt, a former democratic stronghold that has been devastated by nafta and other outsourcing.

That could easily happen, but it would depend on trump leaving his conspiracy theory nonsense behind to focus on issues.
 

Rico Suave

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Trump though needs to change, his conspiracy bs is hurting him, granted he is climbing back up in the polls, he could do way better. Some liberal analysists have feared one thing, if trump moves away from conspiracy bs and back to his populist message, he could sweep the rust belt, a former democratic stronghold that has been devastated by nafta and other outsourcing.

That could easily happen, but it would depend on trump leaving his conspiracy theory nonsense behind to focus on issues.

He's losing by massive margins in Penn and Michigan. That said he doesn't want to be president and is doing aa great job of ensuring he's not elected.
 

beerftw

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He's losing by massive margins in Penn and Michigan. That said he doesn't want to be president and is doing aa great job of ensuring he's not elected.

He is losing by massive margins in both because they are generally democrat supporters, plus he has gone way off topic. He had many of them eating out of the palm of his hand when his message was to build a wall, end nafta and oppose the tpp. When he goes silent on those and focuses on bertherism conspiracy nonsense, he loses their support, which the polls have reflected.

He could turn it around, but he needs to move on it sooner than later.
 

Chomsky

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Trump though needs to change, his conspiracy bs is hurting him, granted he is climbing back up in the polls, he could do way better. Some liberal analysists have feared one thing, if trump moves away from conspiracy bs and back to his populist message, he could sweep the rust belt, a former democratic stronghold that has been devastated by nafta and other outsourcing.

That could easily happen, but it would depend on trump leaving his conspiracy theory nonsense behind to focus on issues.
I think yours is an accurate assessment, and I pretty much agree!

I do think both side's voters are pretty dug-in, but as bad a candidate as Hillary is, and with all the negative stuff constantly surrounding her, a more sane and sensible Trump would be damn competitive!

Right now the GOP establishment have to be looking at this win that should be theirs, and saying to themselves:

"What the hell have we done to deserve this"? :mrgreen:
 

TheGoverness

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He is losing by massive margins in both because they are generally democrat supporters, plus he has gone way off topic. He had many of them eating out of the palm of his hand when his message was to build a wall, end nafta and oppose the tpp. When he goes silent on those and focuses on bertherism conspiracy nonsense, he loses their support, which the polls have reflected.

He could turn it around, but he needs to move on it sooner than later.

Trump should really get back on the whole being against TPP and NAFTA. Hell, Trump needs to stick to actual ****ing issues, not the conspiracy nonsense he's been touting, or the insulting rhetoric he keeps spewing.
 

Rico Suave

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He is losing by massive margins in both because they are generally democrat supporters, plus he has gone way off topic. He had many of them eating out of the palm of his hand when his message was to build a wall, end nafta and oppose the tpp. When he goes silent on those and focuses on bertherism conspiracy nonsense, he loses their support, which the polls have reflected.

He could turn it around, but he needs to move on it sooner than later.

He can't turn it around. Even if he acted like a choir boy for the next few months no one would buy his act. His cake is baked as is Hillary's. The only movement will be from Johnson.
 

beerftw

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Trump should really get back on the whole being against TPP and NAFTA. Hell, Trump needs to stick to actual ****ing issues, not the conspiracy nonsense he's been touting, or the insulting rhetoric he keeps spewing.

I agree, his conspiracy nonsense is sinking him, he is rising again is the polls but much slower than it could have, and he stayed low much longer than he should have. He won the primaries by pulling a bill clinton, by focusing on the economy in simple terms that resonated with voters. He needs to return to that.
 

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Historians and writers of all stripes must be well into their manuscripts which will become books which will flood our bookstores in the years to come about the insanity which was the Trump candidacy.

I just read a comment to a Newsweek article that likened the name Trump to Edsel as he enters our national folklore. I think that has merit. But it probably goes too easy on him and what he has brought to the fore in our politics. Nevertheless, one could probably fashion a fun game thinking up other equivalencies.
 

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Historians and writers of all stripes must be well into their manuscripts which will become books which will flood our bookstores in the years to come about the insanity which was the Trump candidacy.

I just read a comment to a Newsweek article that likened the name Trump to Edsel as he enters our national folklore. I think that has merit. But it probably goes too easy on him and what he has brought to the fore in our politics. Nevertheless, one could probably fashion a fun game thinking up other equivalencies.
I think the best comparison is between Trump and Perot. Just as it was beginning to seem as if Perot had a legitimate shot, he went nuts and never recovered. I don't believe that Trump cant act presidential at least once in a while. He clearly doesn't want to win. He has no real campaign organization, no real staff. He has made no effort to unite the party behind him, stick to a message or behave in a professional, presidential manner.
 

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Trump though needs to change, his conspiracy bs is hurting him, granted he is climbing back up in the polls, he could do way better. Some liberal analysists have feared one thing, if trump moves away from conspiracy bs and back to his populist message, he could sweep the rust belt, a former democratic stronghold that has been devastated by nafta and other outsourcing.

That could easily happen, but it would depend on trump leaving his conspiracy theory nonsense behind to focus on issues.
He can't leave the conspiracy/personal insult bs--that's his bread and butter. His campaign strategy rejects major TV ad buys in favor of earned media. None of Trump's economic ideas, such as they are, can compete with the crazy. He can, I suppose, get back into the game but I don't see any evidence that he can make that pivot for more than a nanosecond.

BTW, which polls did you see in the past week show Trump's numbers improving?
 

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He's losing by massive margins in Penn and Michigan. That said he doesn't want to be president and is doing aa great job of ensuring he's not elected.

My theory is that he is collecting names and emails so that he can sell them stupid Trump stuff later. His latest scam to get info on people is asking people to sign up, via email of course, to help patrol polling places, voter fraud patrols.

IMO, he's just compiling a list of millions of stupid people for future reference.
 

calamity

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He can't leave the conspiracy/personal insult bs--that's his bread and butter. His campaign strategy rejects major TV ad buys in favor of earned media. None of Trump's economic ideas, such as they are, can compete with the crazy. He can, I suppose, get back into the game but I don't see any evidence that he can make that pivot for more than a nanosecond.

BTW, which polls did you see in the past week show Trump's numbers improving?

I try to listen to him speak. And, there is not a single plan presented, ever. 5 minutes of Trump, I get a headache.

I see Hillary give a speech. 45 minutes and I'm still listening. Although, I don't agree with all of what she says, I come away from that experience saying, "Now, that's someone with a plan."
 

upsideguy

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He is losing by massive margins in both because they are generally democrat supporters, plus he has gone way off topic. He had many of them eating out of the palm of his hand when his message was to build a wall, end nafta and oppose the tpp. When he goes silent on those and focuses on bertherism conspiracy nonsense, he loses their support, which the polls have reflected.

He could turn it around, but he needs to move on it sooner than later.

He could .... maybe.... but that isn't going happen. This party is over; the fat lady is warming up. But until she ready, enjoy a little Don Meredith.



Probably the most boring election since the other Clinton ran unopposed in 1996.
 

upsideguy

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I think the best comparison is between Trump and Perot. Just as it was beginning to seem as if Perot had a legitimate shot, he went nuts and never recovered. I don't believe that Trump cant act presidential at least once in a while. He clearly doesn't want to win. He has no real campaign organization, no real staff. He has made no effort to unite the party behind him, stick to a message or behave in a professional, presidential manner.

... I think the new comparison we can start taking about is not Trump/Perot but the Clintons and the Perons.
 

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A poll by Rasmussen shows that most people think Trump's biggest enemy is Donald Trump. In plain English, Trump is defeating Trump.

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone and online survey finds that 45% of Likely U.S. Voters believe Trump’s biggest political enemy this election cycle is himself. Just 29% say his biggest foe is Hillary Clinton and the Democratic party, while 20% say it's the national media. Despite Trump's tense relations with his party’s traditional leadership, just five percent (5%) think other Republicans are his biggest enemy.

Voters See Trump As His Own Worst Enemy - Rasmussen Reportsâ„¢
 

polgara

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A poll by Rasmussen shows that most people think Trump's biggest enemy is Donald Trump. In plain English, Trump is defeating Trump.

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone and online survey finds that 45% of Likely U.S. Voters believe Trump’s biggest political enemy this election cycle is himself. Just 29% say his biggest foe is Hillary Clinton and the Democratic party, while 20% say it's the national media. Despite Trump's tense relations with his party’s traditional leadership, just five percent (5%) think other Republicans are his biggest enemy.

Voters See Trump As His Own Worst Enemy - Rasmussen Reportsâ„¢

Greetings, Pero. :2wave:

He is many things, but stupid is not one of them! Do you have any thoughts on why he might be sabotaging his own campaign, from all appearances? This is another weird part of an extremely weird year, Pero! I've never seen anything like this, and it irritates me that I can't come up with an answer that makes sense to me! :2mad:
 

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Greetings, Pero. :2wave:

He is many things, but stupid is not one of them! Do you have any thoughts on why he might be sabotaging his own campaign, from all appearances? This is another weird part of an extremely weird year, Pero! I've never seen anything like this, and it irritates me that I can't come up with an answer that makes sense to me! :2mad:

Outside of a conspiracy theory that has been around shortly after Trump announced his intentions to run for the presidency as a Republican, it is only guess work. I think we can all acknowledge Trump is his own man. That Trump is going to do things his way. Trump is also a man with no political experience that will make a lot of mistakes. It is my understanding that Trump has some very good political advisors, but he won’t listen to them. He has to do things his way. He is inexperienced in political affairs and running for office. An experienced candidate stays away or at least tries to stay away from controversies. Trump relishes them. He picks fights and start needless feuds. Trump is still playing towards his base, the Republican primary base and not all the different groups and demographics that makes up the general election. He really hasn’t done anything to try to expand his base. When Trump clinched the nomination back in May he was at 38% in the polls. Today he is at the same 38%.

Trump isn't a stupid man. Heck, he is a billionaire businessman. It seems to me that is where his expertise is, not in running for political office. What I can't figure out is why Trump doesn't learn from his mistakes. He keeps repeating the same mistakes again and again and again. By now Trump should be battle tested, should have learned to stay on message, should know by now to stay away from controversies. He should know creating feuds is a loser. He has learned nothing politically, or so it seems. He reminds me of a baseball player who wins the home run title in the minor leagues, the Republican Primaries. Then in the majors, the general election, he finds out he can't hit the curve ball. You end up with a minor leaguer not ready for prime time. Minor league pitching, the Republican base was easy to hit and win. The major league pitching, an entirely different demographic group and ideological different than the GOP base voter, he just can't hit or adjust.

But that is just my educated guess. Then there is the conspiracy theory.
 

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Greetings, Pero. :2wave:

He is many things, but stupid is not one of them! Do you have any thoughts on why he might be sabotaging his own campaign, from all appearances? This is another weird part of an extremely weird year, Pero! I've never seen anything like this, and it irritates me that I can't come up with an answer that makes sense to me! :2mad:

I wasn't asked. Then again, this is a public forum.

I think its pretty clear that Trump suffers from one or more personality disorders. He seems to relish the limelight, especially the adoration. To date, pretty much all that has been required of him is to travel from city to city, hold big rallies and hold a microphone. He doesn't actually have do the job.

I think Trump is as surprised as any that he has gotten this far, but being elected is a whole another matter. This is no small job that is in front of him.. You have to work very, very hard and make tough, do a lot of homework (a lot), make life-death decisions probably each day and live with the consequences, including being second guessed/criticized and roasted by half the population every day. It is more than he can handle and he knows it. I think the reality is setting in that the "prize" is really 4 years of hell and he wants no part of it. He was here to party, but now there is serious work to be done and he knows he is not up for the task. Though he would like to win; he does not want to be President. He is looking for the exit.

While you are wondering from a rational standpoint 'why is he killing his own chances. he is too smart for that?" and I am suggesting "he is killing is own chances because he is too smart" to actually allow himself to be elected.

Trump never was a real candidate for the office of President of the United States. He is a reality TV star. Only those that could not separate reality from TV saw him as President... to the rest of us, we are merely driving toward the season ending cliff-hanger.
 
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polgara

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Outside of a conspiracy theory that has been around shortly after Trump announced his intentions to run for the presidency as a Republican, it is only guess work. I think we can all acknowledge Trump is his own man. That Trump is going to do things his way. Trump is also a man with no political experience that will make a lot of mistakes. It is my understanding that Trump has some very good political advisors, but he won’t listen to them. He has to do things his way. He is inexperienced in political affairs and running for office. An experienced candidate stays away or at least tries to stay away from controversies. Trump relishes them. He picks fights and start needless feuds. Trump is still playing towards his base, the Republican primary base and not all the different groups and demographics that makes up the general election. He really hasn’t done anything to try to expand his base. When Trump clinched the nomination back in May he was at 38% in the polls. Today he is at the same 38%.

Trump isn't a stupid man. Heck, he is a billionaire businessman. It seems to me that is where his expertise is, not in running for political office. What I can't figure out is why Trump doesn't learn from his mistakes. He keeps repeating the same mistakes again and again and again. By now Trump should be battle tested, should have learned to stay on message, should know by now to stay away from controversies. He should know creating feuds is a loser. He has learned nothing politically, or so it seems. He reminds me of a baseball player who wins the home run title in the minor leagues, the Republican Primaries. Then in the majors, the general election, he finds out he can't hit the curve ball. You end up with a minor leaguer not ready for prime time. Minor league pitching, the Republican base was easy to hit and win. The major league pitching, an entirely different demographic group and ideological different than the GOP base voter, he just can't hit or adjust.

But that is just my educated guess. Then there is the conspiracy theory.

Your analogy using baseball makes sense to me! Thanks! :thumbs: He may not be ready for the majors at this point! He has boasted that he brought millions of new voters to the political free-for-all we call the primaries, and he did win those votes fair and square - there was never a charge of "cheating" by the Dems where he was concerned - which is probably why the establishment did not follow through on their plan to change the rules at the convention. He was the winner after the York delegates announced their choice in the roll call, and IIRC he did end up with over 300 delegate above the number needed to become the nominee. It will be interesting to see what he does next if he decides to stay in the race until it's over in November!

You are still correct about the conspiracy theory, though, but we'll soon know the answer to that, too!
 
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I wasn't asked. Then again, this is a public forum.

I think its pretty clear that Trump suffers from one or more personality disorders. He seems to relish the limelight, especially the adoration. To date, pretty much all that has been required of him is to travel from city to city, hold big rallies and hold a microphone. He doesn't actually have do the job.

I think Trump is as surprised as any that he has gotten this far, but being elected is a whole another matter. This is no small job that is in front of him.. You have to work very, very hard and make tough, life-death decisions and be second guessed/criticized by half the population every day. It is more than he can handle and he knows it. I think the reality is setting in that the "prize" is really 4 years of hell and he wants no part of it. He was here to party, but now there is serious work to be done and he knows he is not up for the task. Though he would like to win; he does not want to be President. He is looking for the exit.

While you are wondering from a rational standpoint 'why is he killing his own chances. he is too smart for that?" and I am suggesting "he is killing is own chances because he is too smart" to actually allow himself to be elected.

Greetings, upsideguy. :2wave:

You know, you may be right! :thumbs: Although most large companies usually have a Board of Directors to advise the CEO, he does not have to fight a Senate and House to do what he wants. Maybe he's seen what could happen, and it doesn't appeal to him? Hmmm.....
 

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Your analogy using baseball makes sense to me! Thanks! :thumbs: He may not be ready for the majors at this point! He has boasted that he brought millions of new voters to the political free-for-all we call the primaries, and he did win those votes fair and square - there was never a charge of "cheating" by the Dems where he was concerned - which is probably why the establishment did not follow through on their plan to change the rules at the convention. He was the winner after the York delegates announced their choice in the roll call, and IIRC he did end up with over 300 delegate above the number needed to become the nominee. It will be interesting to see what he does next if he decides to stay in the race until it's over in November!

You are still correct about the conspiracy theory, though, but we'll soon know the answer to that, too!

Here is an interesting article: Trump got the most GOP votes ever — both for and against him — and other fun facts

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...toric-number-of-people-voted-against-him-too/

Over 12 million for and over 16 million against.

Here's another from 538: Primary Turnout Means Nothing For The General Election

Primary Turnout Means Nothing For The General Election | FiveThirtyEight

Scroll down to the table and you will find out that in six modern era presidential elections, the party who received the most primary votes won the general election three times. The party which received the lowest primary votes also won the general election three times. So turn out in the primaries means nothing in the general, all it means is one party had a more interesting and exciting race than the other party.

The bottom line, don't put much stock in primary vote totals. I doubt Trump will drop out before the election. But then again, Trump does what he wants to do and he does it his way, no one else's.

I would imagine unless Trump straightens up and begins to run a campaign to enlarge his base, that conspiracy theory will be brought up more and more. With everything Trump has done since he cinched the nomination, most of it off the wall and wrong, one begins to think he can't be that dumb politically. Then asks the question, is he doing it on purpose to ensure a Hillary win? I had a Republican country chairman tell me that way back in July or August of 2015. He believed it back then, I laughed. Now I just don't know. So that conspiracy theory has been around at least that long.
 

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Here is an interesting article: Trump got the most GOP votes ever — both for and against him — and other fun facts

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...toric-number-of-people-voted-against-him-too/

Over 12 million for and over 16 million against.

Here's another from 538: Primary Turnout Means Nothing For The General Election

Primary Turnout Means Nothing For The General Election | FiveThirtyEight

Scroll down to the table and you will find out that in six modern era presidential elections, the party who received the most primary votes won the general election three times. The party which received the lowest primary votes also won the general election three times. So turn out in the primaries means nothing in the general, all it means is one party had a more interesting and exciting race than the other party.

The bottom line, don't put much stock in primary vote totals. I doubt Trump will drop out before the election. But then again, Trump does what he wants to do and he does it his way, no one else's.

I would imagine unless Trump straightens up and begins to run a campaign to enlarge his base, that conspiracy theory will be brought up more and more. With everything Trump has done since he cinched the nomination, most of it off the wall and wrong, one begins to think he can't be that dumb politically. Then asks the question, is he doing it on purpose to ensure a Hillary win? I had a Republican country chairman tell me that way back in July or August of 2015. He believed it back then, I laughed. Now I just don't know. So that conspiracy theory has been around at least that long.

:agree: I can't recall when we have had a more unorthodox nominee than Trump as far as being totally off-the-wall with his comments! It would not surprise me, as an example, if his coinage of unflattering nicknames about his rivals during the GOP debates - on national TV with millions of viewers no less, became part of a future board game like Trivial Pursuit because they have become so well known! Perhaps that's his way of keeping people off-balance when he is negotiating business deals, but would that work when negotiating trade agreements or other political business deals on behalf of this country? Who knows? He does own businesses all over the world, so he is not a novice in deal making, so I guess if everyone involved can walk away satisfied and smiling after concluding a deal, his technique must be successful? ...just thinking out loud... :mrgreen:

For the record, Fivethirtyeight is my favorite site for honesty in poll taking - I trust them not to be partisan.
 
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