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Fabulous Take On Events In Ukraine And A Broader Antiwar Message That All Would Benefit From Listening To

oneworld2

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A fabulous message from former British soldier Joe Glenton that covers the dfangers of escalation in the current war in Ukraine. The dangers of it escalating to a nuclear exchange if things go really wrong He gives historical examples of the unpredictable nature of wars. Also touching on the hypocrisy of many in the West and the selectivity of who should be considered as victims IE the racist element to coverage.

I think his point about people not having to be in either NATOs camp or Putins camp is wholly relevant to how discussions haver suffered here by members who believe the George Bush nonsense about either or either being the only choices.
 

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A fabulous message from former British soldier Joe Glenton that covers the dfangers of escalation in the current war in Ukraine. The dangers of it escalating to a nuclear exchange if things go really wrong He gives historical examples of the unpredictable nature of wars. Also touching on the hypocrisy of many in the West and the selectivity of who should be considered as victims IE the racist element to coverage.

I think his point about people not having to be in either NATOs camp or Putins camp is wholly relevant to how discussions haver suffered here by members who believe the George Bush nonsense about either or either being the only choices.


The message brought to you by the letter "P".

As in Putin.
 

EdwinWillers

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A former British soldier
The dangers of escalating the war in Ukraine - not sure he thinks that's imminent, but neither is it something anyone wants
An expose on the unpredictable nature of war - like no one in the world knows this and we need a former soldier to tell us
Hypocrisy of many in the West?
Who should be considered victims?
The "racist element" and...
George Bush?

WTF is this about?

If you're going to post and expect people to watch lengthy videos or read lengthy articles, at least do people the service of 1) providing a summary of what you're posting and, 2) articulating some point(s) for why you think it's worth NOT wasting our time on it.
 

oneworld2

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A former British soldier
The dangers of escalating the war in Ukraine - not sure he thinks that's imminent, but neither is it something anyone wants
An expose on the unpredictable nature of war - like no one in the world knows this and we need a former soldier to tell us
Hypocrisy of many in the West?
Who should be considered victims?
The "racist element" and...
George Bush?

WTF is this about?

If you're going to post and expect people to watch lengthy videos or read lengthy articles, at least do people the service of 1) providing a summary of what you're posting and, 2) articulating some point(s) for why you think it's worth NOT wasting our time on it.

lol " lengthy video"

It's 12 minutes long and nobody has your arm up your back

Yes hypocrisy of the West

Yes, the racism in the coverage

He cited Condo Rice when she pratically indicted herself on Fox News

If you don't want to watch it, all 12 mins, that's fine but don't be stupid enough to question it if you haven't watched it.
 

Irredentist

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A fabulous message from former British soldier Joe Glenton that covers the dfangers of escalation in the current war in Ukraine. The dangers of it escalating to a nuclear exchange if things go really wrong He gives historical examples of the unpredictable nature of wars. Also touching on the hypocrisy of many in the West and the selectivity of who should be considered as victims IE the racist element to coverage.

I think his point about people not having to be in either NATOs camp or Putins camp is wholly relevant to how discussions haver suffered here by members who believe the George Bush nonsense about either or either being the only choices.

It's true that the west is hypocritical, and it's true that race plays a significant role in who is portrayed as the victim in western media. Ultimately however, these issues, while worthy of discussion in their own right, are entirely irrelevant to the war taking place right now in the Ukraine, and are a convenient distraction from Putin's culpability in engineering this humanitarian catastrophe.
 

MamboDervish

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A fabulous message from former British soldier Joe Glenton that covers the dfangers of escalation in the current war in Ukraine. The dangers of it escalating to a nuclear exchange if things go really wrong He gives historical examples of the unpredictable nature of wars. Also touching on the hypocrisy of many in the West and the selectivity of who should be considered as victims IE the racist element to coverage.

I think his point about people not having to be in either NATOs camp or Putins camp is wholly relevant to how discussions haver suffered here by members who believe the George Bush nonsense about either or either being the only choices.
Thank you for that post. His observations were sane and measured, and should be heeded by anyone who views this video. All in all, a very balanced presentation.

I'm astounded and embarrassed by my fellow Americans on this website who've persistently beaten the drums for escalation to the point of attempting to impose a 'no-fly' zone over Ukraine, as if escalation somehow saves civilian lives. It does NOT! And you'd think after our catastrophic failure in Iraq that we would all have much more introspection about the ravages of war. However well-intentioned our invasion, the US was responsible for over 200,000 civilian deaths in Iraq, and the repercussions of our occupation persist to this day, with a major bombing and civilian deaths as recently as late January of this year. By Bush the Lesser's 2nd term in the White House, 5 MILLION CIVILIANS had become displaced in Iraq, with half of them becoming refugees in neighboring countries.

Yet another reason why I'm glad we have Biden, an old Cold Warrior, in the White House. He understands diplomacy and restraint, where the lines are that shouldn't be crossed, and how vital it is to continue good relations with all of our global allies, whose continued support in economic sanctions against Russia must be steadfastly maintained to pressure Putin to either withdraw, or be ousted.
 

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A fabulous message from former British soldier Joe Glenton that covers the dfangers of escalation in the current war in Ukraine. The dangers of it escalating to a nuclear exchange if things go really wrong He gives historical examples of the unpredictable nature of wars. Also touching on the hypocrisy of many in the West and the selectivity of who should be considered as victims IE the racist element to coverage.

I think his point about people not having to be in either NATOs camp or Putins camp is wholly relevant to how discussions haver suffered here by members who believe the George Bush nonsense about either or either being the only choices.

Another putin defending thread?

This is just sad.
 

Nomad4Ever

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I think his point about people not having to be in either NATOs camp or Putins camp
It's Putin that is creating that dichotomy. NATO isn't going to invade Ukraine if Ukraine doesn't join NATO. Ukraine wants to join NATO more than NATO wants Ukraine in it. If anything Ukraine is something of a liability for NATO that might drag them into a war they clearly don't want.
 

oneworld2

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It's Putin that is creating that dichotomy. NATO isn't going to invade Ukraine if Ukraine doesn't join NATO. Ukraine wants to join NATO more than NATO wants Ukraine in it. If anything Ukraine is something of a liability for NATO that might drag them into a war they clearly don't want.

Oh please, what else is purely Putins fault, global warming?

Joe's point in the OP about a middle ground approach is wholly reasonable and imo a much more balanced view tham embedding yourself in one camp or the other. You don't appear to be able to understand that nor free yourself from the constructions you have because you have chosen one side. Any departure being seen as a climb down lol

NATO , or more precisely, the USA, has been using the Ukrainians ,and the Ukrainians, like many others before them. are beginning to understand it , now that their country is being laid waste and its people suffering a dreadful war.

There was a peaceful solution that, although not ideal, was the best option. NATO provocations and the Russian willingness to stick to its red line Ukraine approach , and it has to be said Ukrainian naivete have all conspired to create this situation.

The most important thing now for people to su[pport is bringing both the war to an end and thrashing out an agreement that takes into account the fears/concerns of all parties.
 
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oneworld2

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It's true that the west is hypocritical, and it's true that race plays a significant role in who is portrayed as the victim in western media. Ultimately however, these issues, while worthy of discussion in their own right, are entirely irrelevant to the war taking place right now in the Ukraine, and are a convenient distraction from Putin's culpability in engineering this humanitarian catastrophe.

Only a fool, imo, would argue that the West and its media coverage on this war aren't hypocritical or non racist. The evidence is just vast for both.

Unfortunately both Ukraine and Russia aren't the only players in this game and thus we should include everyone on the outside/inside and take a look at their resposnes and suggestions. This war isn't taking place in a vacuum and that's why we do need to discuss all aspects.

Putin and Zelensky aren't the only " culpable "players here and to dismiss these views that they are somehow serving as a " distraction " shows a very onesided view of things imo
 

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Oh please, what else is purely Putins fault, global warming?

Joe's point in the OP about a middle ground approach is wholly reasonable and imo a much more balanced view tham embedding yourself in one camp or the other. You don't appear to be able to understand that nor free yourself from the constructions you have because you have chosen one side. Any departure being seen as a climb down lol

NATO , or more precisely, the USA, has been using the Ukrainians and the Ukrainians, like many others before them. are beginning to understand it , now that their country is being laid waste and its people suffering a dreadful war.

There was a peaceful solution that, although not ideal, was the best option. NATO provocations and the Russian willingness to stick to its red line Ukraine approach , and it has to be said Ukrainian naivete have all conspired to create this situation.

The most important thing now for people to su[pport is bringing both the war to an end and thrashing out an agreement that takes into account the fears/concerns of all parties.
There's one giant flaw in your logic. You assume that without these alleged NATO "provocations", Putin would not have invaded the Ukraine. But the historical context of Russian expansionism and aggression directed against their neighbors shows that this is far from certain. In fact it is very likely that Putin ultimately would have chosen the same course of action, to attack the Ukraine, regardless of whatever NATO and the US decided to do. Putin alone bears sole responsibility for his decision to start this war. And likewise only he can decide to end it.
 

Nomad4Ever

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Oh please, what else is purely Putins fault, global warming?

Joe's point in the OP about a middle ground approach is wholly reasonable and imo a much more balanced view tham embedding yourself in one camp or the other. You don't appear to be able to understand that nor free yourself from the constructions you have because you have chosen one side. Any departure being seen as a climb down lol

NATO , or more precisely, the USA, has been using the Ukrainians and the Ukrainians, like many others before them. are beginning to understand it , now that their country is being laid waste and its people suffering a dreadful war.

There was a peaceful solution that, although not ideal, was the best option. NATO provocations and the Russian willingness to stick to its red line Ukraine approach , and it has to be said Ukrainian naivete have all conspired to create this situation.

The most important thing now for people to su[pport is bringing both the war to an end and thrashing out an agreement that takes into account the fears/concerns of all parties.
As far as NATO is concerned, Ukraine can be in NATO, not in NATO, or aligned with Russia. Ukraine has at various times been strongly Russian aligned, neutral, and aspired to join NATO. NATO never invaded Ukraine over any of them.

As far as Russia is concerned they can be Russian aligned. Even neutral is too far for them, as if Ukraine even trades openly with the EU they would heavily undermine Russia's European gas and oil market (large oil and natural gas fields were discovered in Ukraine in the late 00s).

It's Russia that is forcing Ukraine to choose NATO or Russia. Not NATO. NATO would (and historically has) allow Ukraine to be Russian aligned or neutral.
 

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is invading the Ukraine and slaughtering their people good or bad?
 

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Only a fool, imo, would argue that the West and its media coverage on this war aren't hypocritical or non racist. The evidence is just vast for both.

Unfortunately both Ukraine and Russia aren't the only players in this game and thus we should include everyone on the outside/inside and take a look at their resposnes and suggestions. This war isn't taking place in a vacuum and that's why we do need to discuss all aspects.

Putin and Zelensky aren't the only " culpable "players here and to dismiss these views that they are somehow serving as a " distraction " shows a very onesided view of things imo

Putin propaganda. As usual.
 

oneworld2

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There's one giant flaw in your logic. You assume that without these alleged NATO "provocations", Putin would not have invaded the Ukraine. But the historical context of Russian expansionism and aggression directed against their neighbors shows that this is far from certain. In fact it is very likely that Putin ultimately would have chosen the same course of action, to attack the Ukraine, regardless of whatever NATO and the US decided to do. Putin alone bears sole responsibility for his decision to start this war. And likewise only he can decide to end it.

I accept that point ( highlighted ) and would only say that we will never know because of the ongoing, years long, NATO provocations, it's history of aggression and its use of proxies. We can say the same about US expansionism and say does that preclude any leeway given to it ?

WRT aggression, -will it invade Iraq again, illegally. Serbia. Syria etc etc it's a two way street but you only look in the one direction imo
 

oneworld2

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As far as NATO is concerned, Ukraine can be in NATO, not in NATO, or aligned with Russia. Ukraine has at various times been strongly Russian aligned, neutral, and aspired to join NATO. NATO never invaded Ukraine over any of them.

As far as Russia is concerned they can be Russian aligned. Even neutral is too far for them, as if Ukraine even trades openly with the EU they would heavily undermine Russia's European gas and oil market (large oil and natural gas fields were discovered in Ukraine in the late 00s).

It's Russia that is forcing Ukraine to choose NATO or Russia. Not NATO. NATO would (and historically has) allow Ukraine to be Russian aligned or neutral.

The US, through NATO, is using the Ukrainians as proxies and I think the evidence for it is overwhelming at this point. So it's not the benign organisation you make it out to be nor are the countries involved in it. It's aggressive history should have told you that already

Russia is engaging in this war to see Ukraine be given/or by force a neutral status. That's not a " NATO or Russia" choice either
 

watsup

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The US, through NATO, is using the Ukrainians as proxies and I think the evidence for it is overwhelming at this point. So it's not the benign organisation you make it out to be nor are the countries involved in it. It's aggressive history should have told you that already

Russia is engaging in this war to see Ukraine be given/or by force a neutral status. That's not a " NATO or Russia" choice either

More Putin propaganda and lies. It's what we always expect from the likes of you.
 

EdwinWillers

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lol " lengthy video"
It's 12 minutes long and nobody has your arm up your back
Yes hypocrisy of the West
Yes, the racism in the coverage
He cited Condo Rice when she pratically indicted herself on Fox News
If you don't want to watch it, all 12 mins, that's fine but don't be stupid enough to question it if you haven't watched it.
Yeah, "lengthy."

And yeah, 12 minutes can be an eternity slogging through pointless schlock unless you can give us a reason for why it's not; but that's not what you gave us, is it?

You couldn't even address my question - likely because your hasty read of my post didn't even make it that far:

WTF is this about?
If you're going to post and expect people to watch lengthy videos or read lengthy articles, at least do people the service of 1) providing a summary of what you're posting and, 2) articulating some point(s) for why you think it's worth NOT wasting our time on it.

When you can't even articulate the point of your thread or your reason for citing certain content - then neither your thread nor your condent have a point.
 

watsup

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Yeah, "lengthy."

And yeah, 12 minutes can be an eternity slogging through pointless schlock unless you can give us a reason for why it's not; but that's not what you gave us, is it?

You couldn't even address my question - likely because your hasty read of my post didn't even make it that far:

WTF is this about?
If you're going to post and expect people to watch lengthy videos or read lengthy articles, at least do people the service of 1) providing a summary of what you're posting and, 2) articulating some point(s) for why you think it's worth NOT wasting our time on it.

When you can't even articulate the point of your thread or your reason for citing certain content - then neither your thread nor your condent have a point.

Videos are the lazy chatter's go-to. I hate videos. Just summarize it. Geez, oneworld.
 

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oneworld2

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Yeah, "lengthy."

And yeah, 12 minutes can be an eternity slogging through pointless schlock unless you can give us a reason for why it's not; but that's not what you gave us, is it?

You couldn't even address my question - likely because your hasty read of my post didn't even make it that far:

WTF is this about?
If you're going to post and expect people to watch lengthy videos or read lengthy articles, at least do people the service of 1) providing a summary of what you're posting and, 2) articulating some point(s) for why you think it's worth NOT wasting our time on it.

When you can't even articulate the point of your thread or your reason for citing certain content - then neither your thread nor your condent have a point.

Others took the chance and watched and enjoyed it.

You cry and moan about it

That's a you issue
 

EdwinWillers

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Others took the chance and watched and enjoyed it.
Well I'm happy for them. 👍
You cry and moan about it
No, it was just a simple request to see if you could articulate your point and save us some heartache trying to figure it out; but your inability to do so is evidence you never had a point.
And now, still unable to articulate a point, you're arguing with me about it.
Some would call that crying an moaning.
That's a you issue
Unable to summarize it on your own. That’s a you issue.
^^^ This (@watsup - thx)

...moving on...
 
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