F-35 Stealth Fighter vs. A-10 Warthog: The Ultimate Close Air Support Showdown

[ksu_aviator]

If the F-22 is superior why are we going to to an inferior aircraft?

Primarily costs.

The F-35 has longer range by leaps and bounds and can carry a wider range of arms. But, the F-22 can fly higher, faster and is better suited for air to air combat. The F-22 takes off in a shorter distance, more thrust and more payload.

Don't get me wrong, there is no jet in the sky that can beat the F-35 as long as the F-22 is on the ground.

 

[kanabco]

Seriously, it's over engineered, too much electronics, as my father points out, it'll spend most of it's time grounded. It's junk, a boondoggle.

One cannot reply cogently unless one clears it with your father first?

 

[Renae]

One cannot reply cogently unless one clears it with your father first?

Huh? The F35 is a mess, period. I mention my old man cause as a retired fighter pilot his word carries much worth on matters of fighters jets. However his word isnt alone any small amount of effort researching will find the F-35 is a complete mess of an aircraft

 

[ksu_aviator]

Seriously, it's over engineered, too much electronics, as my father points out, it'll spend most of it's time grounded. It's junk, a boondoggle.

No it won't. Every aircraft, civilian and military, is being built with what I call plug and play systems. The computers recognize a fault, the mechanics take out the faulty item and replace it with a serviceable item. In battle, this can be done in minutes. At home, the paperwork and what have you makes it longer. In addition, because the systems are more automated, they can respond to failures without pilot input, making combat with failed components much easier. The computers also notice problems far before the pilot or mechanics would making post departure failures less likely.

 

[Renae]

No it won't. Every aircraft, civilian and military, is being built with what I call plug and play systems. The computers recognize a fault, the mechanics take out the faulty item and replace it with a serviceable item. In battle, this can be done in minutes. At home, the paperwork and what have you makes it longer. In addition, because the systems are more automated, they can respond to failures without pilot input, making combat with failed components much easier. The computers also notice problems far before the pilot or mechanics would making post departure failures less likely.

The Pentagon?s official F-35 bug list is terrifying | ExtremeTech

 

[kanabco]

yes yes....they do.... But I am a huge fan of the Apache. I got to sit in both the Cobra's and the Apache's

I have given the greater part of my working life to the Apache. One of the first Engineers to be moved from California to Tempe to build it. Glad you like my chopper :2dancing:

 

[ksu_aviator]

The Pentagon?s official F-35 bug list is terrifying | ExtremeTech

What is that supposed to prove? An unsubstantiated article written by non-aviation technology experts is supposed to prove something?

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...readiness-data-improves-in-2015-as-fl-421499/

The aircraft is as reliable as its counter parts, is cheaper to operate as its reliability is improving and just beat every jet in Denmark's competition to replace its F-16's. It is the best jet out there. Period.

 

[Renae]

What is that supposed to prove? An unsubstantiated article written by non-aviation technology experts is supposed to prove something?

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...readiness-data-improves-in-2015-as-fl-421499/

The aircraft is as reliable as its counter parts, is cheaper to operate as its reliability is improving and just beat every jet in Denmark's competition to replace its F-16's. It is the best jet out there. Period.

The F-35 is over priced, behind scheduled, flawed.

Talk to me when it goes active service.

 

[ksu_aviator]

The F-35 is over priced, behind scheduled, flawed.

Talk to me when it goes active service.

It is literally the cheapest fighter jet in production. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Air Farce: U.S. Air Force upbeat on first combat-ready F-35 squadron - Yahoo Finance
Marines: http://www.nationaldefensemagazine....aredCombatReadybutMoreDevelopmentRemains.aspx

Of course the Marines are ready a full year before the Air Farce.

Now, whether or not it is used in active service is a different parameter. This is a jet that fights other jets. We aren't in a theatre where air superiority is in question. Why use the aircraft and expose to the world its secrets when it isn't necessary? The answer is, you don't.

 

[Renae]

It is literally the cheapest fighter jet in production. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Air Farce: U.S. Air Force upbeat on first combat-ready F-35 squadron - Yahoo Finance
Marines: http://www.nationaldefensemagazine....aredCombatReadybutMoreDevelopmentRemains.aspx

Of course the Marines are ready a full year before the Air Farce.

Now, whether or not it is used in active service is a different parameter. This is a jet that fights other jets. We aren't in a theatre where air superiority is in question. Why use the aircraft and expose to the world its secrets when it isn't necessary? The answer is, you don't.

Lockheed Martin's F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, the most expensive weapons system in history, nearly crash-landed a few years ago under the weight of repeated delays and cost overruns. Despite its history, the troubled program is getting a boost in the just-released defense budget.

The Pentagon plans to spend about $10.6 billion on the F-35 in the fiscal year ending Oct. 1, a 23 percent increase over the previous year. The money will buy 57 aircraft versus 38 from the prior spending plan. The procurement figure is also higher than the 55 the Pentagon had previously said it was planning to buy this year.

Pentagon’s ‘Too Big to Fail’ F-35 Gets Another $10.6 Billion | The Fiscal Times
It's almost like you have stake in this thing for financial gain... to be so blind to reality.

 

[Tigerace117]

Again the F35 is not an air superiority fighter it is a SMRF (Stealth Multi Roll Fighter).
My company lost that contract with a poor design for the the F35B.. we wanted to make a new Harrier. Lockheed kicked our ass on the B.

So the F-35 is supposed to be a jack of all trades?

 

[Renae]

So the F-35 is supposed to be a jack of all trades?

There's been one successful jack of all trades, no other aircraft can come close to that legends achievements. The F-35 has a huge issue, being a single seat, underpowered aircraft, information overload on the pilot.

 

[Tigerace117]

There's been one successful jack of all trades, no other aircraft can come close to that legends achievements. The F-35 has a huge issue, being a single seat, underpowered aircraft, information overload on the pilot.

And isn't it incredibly expensive as well?

 

[Renae]

And isn't it incredibly expensive as well?

Most expensive weapon ever made at this point. Wait till they try to go to an all drone AF, that will be an even bigger mess.

 

[kanabco]

So the F-35 is supposed to be a jack of all trades?

There is the F35 for the air force, the F35B for the marine Corp, and the F35C for the Navy. They all have variations.
Is there anyone here who has more than fifty years experience building airborne killing machines? If so you you subscribe to Janes and Aviation Week and understand that a lot of the posters here are not well informed.

If you would like to know something specific about the F35 I can point you to the correct reading material.

Cheers

 

[Renae]

There is the F35 for the air force, the F35B for the marine Corp, and the F35C for the Navy. They all have variations.
Is there anyone here who has more than fifty years experience building airborne killing machines? If so you you subscribe to Janes and Aviation Week and understand that a lot of the posters here are not well informed.

If you would like to know something specific about the F35 I can point you to the correct reading material.

Cheers

You are insulting our intelligence because people disagree with you?

 

[Renae]

There is the F35 for the air force, the F35B for the marine Corp, and the F35C for the Navy. They all have variations.
Is there anyone here who has more than fifty years experience building airborne killing machines? If so you you subscribe to Janes and Aviation Week and understand that a lot of the posters here are not well informed.

If you would like to know something specific about the F35 I can point you to the correct reading material.

Cheers

The F-35 multirole fighter won't be close to ready before 2019, the US House Armed Services Committee was told on Wednesday.
The aircraft, which is supposed to reinvigorate the American military's air power, is suffering numerous problems, largely down to flaws in the F-35's operating system. These include straightforward code crashes, having to reboot the radar every four hours, and serious security holes in the code.
Michael Gilmore, the Pentagon's director of operational test and evaluation, reported that the latest F-35 operating system has 931 open, documented deficiencies, 158 of which are Category 1 – classified as those that could cause death, severe injury, or severe illness.

"The limited and incomplete F-35 cybersecurity testing accomplished to date has nonetheless revealed deficiencies that cannot be ignored," Gilmore said in his testimony.

MINA Breaking News - $1 Trillion later F35 Fighters unflyable

 

[ksu_aviator]

Pentagon’s ‘Too Big to Fail’ F-35 Gets Another $10.6 Billion | The Fiscal Times
It's almost like you have stake in this thing for financial gain... to be so blind to reality.

So you just want to ignore the article that stated the aircraft was cheaper to build and operate than any other aircraft being built today while providing more capability and reliability? You just have it in your head that that is that and nothing is going to change it eh?

 

[Renae]

So you just want to ignore the article that stated the aircraft was cheaper to build and operate than any other aircraft being built today while providing more capability and reliability? You just have it in your head that that is that and nothing is going to change it eh?

What smoking crack are you on? I want some. The F-35 isn't ready, wont be for YEARS, it's underpowered, over engineered and a financial mess and you act like it's... a good plane? It's not.

 

[ksu_aviator]

What smoking crack are you on? I want some. The F-35 isn't ready, wont be for YEARS, it's underpowered, over engineered and a financial mess and you act like it's... a good plane? It's not.

It is ready now. The Marines have a full squadron right now! The Air Force will have one later this year. You are just ignoring the facts. The aircraft is ready...RIGHT NOW!

I posted links to two articles earlier, I suggest you read at least the headlines.

 

[Renae]

It is ready now. The Marines have a full squadron right now! The Air Force will have one later this year. You are just ignoring the facts. The aircraft is ready...RIGHT NOW!

I posted links to two articles earlier, I suggest you read at least the headlines.

You think it's a good plane, your judgement is fail

 

[ksu_aviator]

You think it's a good plane, your judgement is fail

Don't take my word for it. The Eurofighter and Super Hornet have all but been eliminated from the western fighter market by the F-35. You can't get another jet of its size that goes 48,000 miles and can carry a wide array of tools from Air-Air, Air-Ground, counter electronic, stealth and more. AND it is the cheapest to produce and operate. It isn't my judgement. It is literally every military's judgement that is an ally with the US. Except France...they build the Eurofighter. I hear it is very good at running away.

The 11 countries expected to buy F-35 fighter jet | Reuters

 

[kanabco]

Don't take my word for it. The Eurofighter and Super Hornet have all but been eliminated from the western fighter market by the F-35. You can't get another jet of its size that goes 48,000 miles and can carry a wide array of tools from Air-Air, Air-Ground, counter electronic, stealth and more. AND it is the cheapest to produce and operate. It isn't my judgement. It is literally every military's judgement that is an ally with the US. Except France...they build the Eurofighter. I hear it is very good at running away.

The 11 countries expected to buy F-35 fighter jet | Reuters

I find this to be the normal. People are going to have there opinion and it will not change. Facts do not matter.
The F35 is the plane of the future period. It is the very last manned fighter built in the USA period.

I got an invitation to go to Scotland last year to get a tour of the HMS Queen Elizabeth Class under construction in Royth.
Here is a nice link in Janes about her Royal Navy's new flagship named in Rosyth | IHS Jane's 360
This is particularly good example of the success of the F35B as they will replace all the harriers in the British jump-jet fleet.
But the cute part is the ship is going to sea in a year or so fully armed with F35Bs but with USMC pilots! We are way behind schedule in building and training so we are loaning them Lightnings and pilots to be replaced with their own planes and trained pilots in 2020.
Brexit anyone?

 

[PirateMk1]

Most expensive weapon ever made at this point. Wait till they try to go to an all drone AF, that will be an even bigger mess.

Actually that wont be the case with most drones. The Air Force will try their best though.

 

[jpn]

I thought this whole short article is worth reading: What the F-35 v F-16 Dogfight Really Means: Think Pilots « Breaking Defense - Defense industry news, analysis and commentary

Conclusion:

In the immortal words of the late Col. John Boyd, machines don’t fight wars. People do. This is the real heart of the story. Let’s be clear: an F-16 did not beat an F-35 in a dogfight. Instead, an experienced pilot in an F-16 beat a less experienced pilot in an F-35. The only way to prevent such outcomes in the future is to produce experienced F-35 pilots who can create and master new tactics, but the current trajectory makes this tremendously difficult.

So forget the question of whether the F-35 should expect to engage in close-in aerial combat or whether this specific test report should carry any weight. If the Joint Strike Fighter is ever going to be good at anything, dogfighting or otherwise, it will require a cadre of professionals who are “proficient in developed tactics.” That means the pilots need experience in the cockpit, but given the enormous costs, continual delays and tremendous complexity involved, experienced pilots is one thing the F-35 isn’t going to have any time soon.

Plus, it has a great photo: