• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Extremist republicans

Glowpun

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 30, 2012
Messages
2,223
Reaction score
533
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
What is there about the extremist republicans' hate of the President that they are willing to damage the fabric of the country in order to obstruct what the President wants to do? What is the solution aside from taking them out.
 

specklebang

Discount Philosopher
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 13, 2012
Messages
11,524
Reaction score
6,769
Location
Las Vegas
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Other
Aren't you being a bit extremist? Just saying.



What is there about the extremist republicans' hate of the President that they are willing to damage the fabric of the country in order to obstruct what the President wants to do? What is the solution aside from taking them out.
 

Anagram

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 10, 2011
Messages
8,856
Reaction score
5,411
Location
St. Louis MO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
What is there about the extremist republicans' hate of the President that they are willing to damage the fabric of the country in order to obstruct what the President wants to do? What is the solution aside from taking them out.
I don't think most of what they do is necessarily obstruction, its just that the legislation goes against their beliefs. Take the immigration bill for instance. It's not like they campaigned on something different and then changed their minds, many of them campaigned on not having any sort of prospective citizenship for illegal immigrants. And their constituents voted them in knowing that full well. They often get criticized for refusing to compromise with the Democrats, and sometimes its legitimate, but sometimes the positions they and their constituents have are too far apart from the Democrats to make a compromise. I'm a big proponent of compromise generally, but it shouldn't be done for its own sake. If one has to sacrifice one of their core principles in order to attain compromise, it shouldn't be done. There is no solution to getting rid of them other than changing the mind of the voters who elect them. Their districts are full of like-minded people, and they have a right to vote for who they want, even if you disagree with them.
 

Psychoclown

Clown Prince of Politics
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Messages
1,780
Reaction score
1,460
Location
Hiding from the voices in my head.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
What is there about the extremist republicans' hate of the President that they are willing to damage the fabric of the country in order to obstruct what the President wants to do? What is the solution aside from taking them out.
How exactly are the Republicans "damaging the fabric of the country" in your mind? And what do you expect the oppositionist party to do exactly? They were put into office by people who largely disagree with "what the President wants to do". Don't they have an obligation to represent the interests and views of the people who elected them? Should the Democrats have rolled over and given Bush carte blanch to do whatever he wanted when he was in office?

And lastly, what exactly do you mean when yuou say "taking them out"?
 

Unitedwestand13

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
20,687
Reaction score
6,251
Location
Sunnyvale California
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
I don't think most of what they do is necessarily obstruction, its just that the legislation goes against their beliefs. Take the immigration bill for instance. It's not like they campaigned on something different and then changed their minds, many of them campaigned on not having any sort of prospective citizenship for illegal immigrants. And their constituents voted them in knowing that full well. They often get criticized for refusing to compromise with the Democrats, and sometimes its legitimate, but sometimes the positions they and their constituents have are too far apart from the Democrats to make a compromise. I'm a big proponent of compromise generally, but it shouldn't be done for its own sake. If one has to sacrifice one of their core principles in order to attain compromise, it shouldn't be done. There is no solution to getting rid of them other than changing the mind of the voters who elect them. Their districts are full of like-minded people, and they have a right to vote for who they want, even if you disagree with them.
what about the recent failure of the farm bill, which was born and died in the house of representatives over the issue of food stamps.

the funny thing is i think the republicans view anything that obama or the democrats propose or supports as against their beliefs.
 

instagramsci

economically ☭ socially ☭
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Messages
2,227
Reaction score
803
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
There's nothing radical about either party in the US. At least not in my opinion
 

Anagram

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 10, 2011
Messages
8,856
Reaction score
5,411
Location
St. Louis MO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
what about the recent failure of the farm bill, which was born and died in the house of representatives over the issue of food stamps.
Hopefully some sort of compromise can eventually be reached on it. It's not a new thing though, Republican's objection to the money spent on food stamps. It's not like they suddenly decided on that policy after Obama became president. And I wouldn't blame the bill's eventual defeat solely on Republican obstructionism either. A healthy percentage of both parties voted both for and against it.


the funny thing is i think the republicans view anything that obama or the democrats propose or supports as against their beliefs.
Much of what Obama and the Democrats support is against their beliefs. There is of course some political game playing, but I don't think it is usually so much about trying to obstruct the president, as much as it is the voters who elected them being ideologically far away from Obama.
 

Linc

NIMBY
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 2, 2013
Messages
52,182
Reaction score
15,243
Location
IL—16
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
what about the recent failure of the farm bill, which was born and died in the house of representatives over the issue of food stamps.

the funny thing is i think the republicans view anything that obama or the democrats propose or supports as against their beliefs.
Time and again since 2011, Repubs have chosen to oppose the very policies they were for. Obama should just tell them the opposite of what he is for, since he is more of a RINO than a liberal.
 

iguanaman

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Messages
47,461
Reaction score
16,484
Location
Florida
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
I don't think most of what they do is necessarily obstruction, its just that the legislation goes against their beliefs. Take the immigration bill for instance. It's not like they campaigned on something different and then changed their minds, many of them campaigned on not having any sort of prospective citizenship for illegal immigrants. And their constituents voted them in knowing that full well. They often get criticized for refusing to compromise with the Democrats, and sometimes its legitimate, but sometimes the positions they and their constituents have are too far apart from the Democrats to make a compromise. I'm a big proponent of compromise generally, but it shouldn't be done for its own sake. If one has to sacrifice one of their core principles in order to attain compromise, it shouldn't be done. There is no solution to getting rid of them other than changing the mind of the voters who elect them. Their districts are full of like-minded people, and they have a right to vote for who they want, even if you disagree with them.
The problem is that the views of those anti-reform Representatives reflects those of GOP Primary voters only and not the views of the majority of people in most of those districts. This is not what democracy is supposed to be. It has been distorted by gerrymandering and the general breakdown of Republican party. What's left of the GOP know they need to do something on immigration or perish but it is impossible to do with the T's in command.
 

Anagram

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 10, 2011
Messages
8,856
Reaction score
5,411
Location
St. Louis MO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
The problem is that the views of those anti-reform Representatives reflects those of GOP Primary voters only and not the views of the majority of people in most of those districts.
I'm not sure that's true in many of the districts which are very strongly Republican. I'd say a majority or close to it in most of them are very closely aligned with their candidate. I also, really don't see a viable alternative to the primary system anyway.

This is not what democracy is supposed to be. It has been distorted by gerrymandering and the general breakdown of Republican party.
Gerrymandering has played a part for sure. Republicans won big in 2010 and used that to form a huge majority. Lately I've come to the conclusion I can't really blame either side for doing it while its still allowed though. It being allowed definitely needs to be ended, but not doing it puts your party at a huge disadvantage. Looking at it through game theory shows both sides have a strong incentive to do it. Even without gerrymandering Republicans are always going to have a built in advantage in redistricting though. Cities are naturally going to be kept as much together as possible, and they vote Democratic more strongly than the rural Republican areas. Even in a non-gerrymandered map of a state that is even politically, the Republicans could very well end up with an advantage.
 

Bob Blaylock

Electrician
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 9, 2011
Messages
13,745
Reaction score
8,546
Location
North 38°28′ West 121°26′
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
What is there about the extremist republicans' hate of the President that they are willing to damage the fabric of the country in order to obstruct what the President wants to do? What is the solution aside from taking them out.
It is the President who is putting forth policies that threaten to “damage the fabric of the country” Trying to stop him from doing so is the right thing to do.
 

Fiddytree

Neocon Elitist
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 9, 2008
Messages
29,757
Reaction score
17,164
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
What is there about the extremist republicans' hate of the President that they are willing to damage the fabric of the country in order to obstruct what the President wants to do? What is the solution aside from taking them out.
Remember the previous President and his relationship with the opposition? Welcome to politics.
 

iguanaman

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Messages
47,461
Reaction score
16,484
Location
Florida
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
I'm not sure that's true in many of the districts which are very strongly Republican. I'd say a majority or close to it in most of them are very closely aligned with their candidate. I also, really don't see a viable alternative to the primary system anyway.



Gerrymandering has played a part for sure. Republicans won big in 2010 and used that to form a huge majority. Lately I've come to the conclusion I can't really blame either side for doing it while its still allowed though. It being allowed definitely needs to be ended, but not doing it puts your party at a huge disadvantage. Looking at it through game theory shows both sides have a strong incentive to do it. Even without gerrymandering Republicans are always going to have a built in advantage in redistricting though. Cities are naturally going to be kept as much together as possible, and they vote Democratic more strongly than the rural Republican areas. Even in a non-gerrymandered map of a state that is even politically, the Republicans could very well end up with an advantage.
Polling on immigration reform was pretty heavily in favor even in the south. I'm afraid the Republicans are being railroaded by a minority of extremists who have taken control. I sure hope they crash and burn real quick though before they take us all down with them.

But at this point, in states represented by key advocates of immigration reform, both the Gang of Eight proposal and a pathway to citizenship earn robust support, as described.

In Florida, where GOP Sen. Marco Rubio has been one of the staunchest supporters of reform legislation, 72 percent of voters said they support the legislation (including 45 percent who strongly support it) and 71 percent backed the pathway to citizenship.

In South Carolina, home to reform-boosting Republican Lindsey Graham, those numbers were only a bit lower: 62 percent who support the Gang of Eight bill and 60 percent who backed the pathway to citizenship.

And in Texas, the rapidly changing but still-conservative state with two senators who have resisted reform – Ted Cruz and John Cornyn – 67 percent said they could support the reform bill as described, with 72 percent backing a pathway to citizenship.
The average support for the “Gang of Eight” legislation was just under 68 percent, according to the pollsters.
Read more: Polls: Huge support for immigration reform - Alexander Burns - POLITICO.com
 

Juanita

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 26, 2013
Messages
3,981
Reaction score
863
Location
now? COLORADO
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
What is there about the extremist republicans' hate of the President that they are willing to damage the fabric of the country in order to obstruct what the President wants to do? What is the solution aside from taking them out.
Hate is hate, and hate is self destructive and totally illogical....
 

Anagram

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 10, 2011
Messages
8,856
Reaction score
5,411
Location
St. Louis MO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Polling on immigration reform was pretty heavily in favor even in the south. I'm afraid the Republicans are being railroaded by a minority of extremists who have taken control. I sure hope they crash and burn real quick though before they take us all down with them.



Read more: Polls: Huge support for immigration reform - Alexander Burns - POLITICO.com
Perhaps. Assuming the bill gets nowhere in the House as I expect it, we'll see how it affects their re-election chances. My thinking is that you have some very Democratic districts that almost universally support it like Texas 15 and 16 bolstering the overall percentage, while other districts have lower 50-60% opposition thus skewing the whole state to supporting the plan. There are certainly some where the primary voters are not an overall majority, but I don't really see it as a bigger problem than we'd have if we went to a non-primary system for selecting candidates.
 

Juanita

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 26, 2013
Messages
3,981
Reaction score
863
Location
now? COLORADO
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
I don't think most of what they do is necessarily obstruction, its just that the legislation goes against their beliefs. Take the immigration bill for instance. It's not like they campaigned on something different and then changed their minds, many of them campaigned on not having any sort of prospective citizenship for illegal immigrants. And their constituents voted them in knowing that full well. They often get criticized for refusing to compromise with the Democrats, and sometimes its legitimate, but sometimes the positions they and their constituents have are too far apart from the Democrats to make a compromise. I'm a big proponent of compromhise generally, but it shouldn't be done for its own sake. If one has to sacrifice one of their core principles in order to attain compromise, it shouldn't be done. There is no solution to getting rid of them other than changing the mind of the voters who elect them. Their districts are full of like-minded people, and they have a right to vote for who they want, even if you disagree with them.

IMO, I don't see how being anti-immigration reform could be considered a "core principle"....Most of these guys, thanks to gerrymandering/redistricting are totally "safe" anyway...
 

ttwtt78640

Sometimes wrong
DP Veteran
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
66,845
Reaction score
37,946
Location
Uhland, Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
What is there about the extremist republicans' hate of the President that they are willing to damage the fabric of the country in order to obstruct what the President wants to do? What is the solution aside from taking them out.
Changing the president. ;)
 

Anagram

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 10, 2011
Messages
8,856
Reaction score
5,411
Location
St. Louis MO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
IMO, I don't see how being anti-immigration reform could be considered a "core principle"....Most of these guys, thanks to gerrymandering/re.districting are totally "safe" anyway...
It's certainly something they feel very strongly on. Many believe that immigration reform could be disastrous for the United States. It meets my definition of "core principle." I wouldn't ask them to reject it just for the sake of compromise.
 

Juanita

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 26, 2013
Messages
3,981
Reaction score
863
Location
now? COLORADO
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
How exactly are the Republicans "damaging the fabric of the country" in your mind? And what do you expect the oppositionist party to do exactly? They were put into office by people who largely disagree with "what the President wants to do". Don't they have an obligation to represent the interests and views of the people who elected them? Should the Democrats have rolled over and given Bush carte blanch to do whatever he wanted when he was in office?

And lastly, what exactly do you mean when yuou say "taking them out"?


Bush did exactly what he (and Cheney) wanted to do, even if they had to lie to do it.... They are obstructionists to the extreme...Do they have something against jobs? Why not pass the Jobs Bill then? Etc., etc., etc.... The House is a total waste of taxpayer money.....
 

specklebang

Discount Philosopher
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 13, 2012
Messages
11,524
Reaction score
6,769
Location
Las Vegas
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Other
Really? The term knocking off implies murder. Not that there aren't a lot of politicians I would like to strangle, if only to shut them up for a minute, but still, a bit over the top, no?

Or do you think millions of Democrats are contemplating killing Republicans? I don't get out much so I don't know. Enlighten me.


There is nothing extreme about his opinion at all..
 

Juanita

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 26, 2013
Messages
3,981
Reaction score
863
Location
now? COLORADO
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
Hopefully some sort of compromise can eventually be reached on it. It's not a new thing though, Republican's objection to the money spent on food stamps. It's not like they suddenly decided on that policy after Obama became president. And I wouldn't blame the bill's eventual defeat solely on Republican obstructionism either. A healthy percentage of both parties voted both for and agains

Much of what Obama and the Democrats support is against their beliefs. There is of course some political game playing, but I don't think it is usually so much about trying to obstruct the president, as much as it is the voters who elected them being ideologically far away from Obama.


"Some" political game playing? That is an understatement if I ever heard one....
 

Anagram

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 10, 2011
Messages
8,856
Reaction score
5,411
Location
St. Louis MO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
"Some" political game playing? That is an understatement if I ever heard one....
There's a lot of political game playing in Congress overall, but it is an overused term when applied to obstruction. Much of that is simply ideological disagreement. Steve Stockman and Barack Obama are very far apart. Expecting those two sides to consistently come together in compromise frequently is unreasonable.
 

Juanita

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 26, 2013
Messages
3,981
Reaction score
863
Location
now? COLORADO
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
The problem is that the views of those anti-reform Representatives reflects those of GOP Primary voters only and not the views of the majority of people in most of those districts. This is not what democracy is supposed to be. It has been distorted by gerrymandering and the general breakdown of Republican party. What's left of the GOP know they need to do something on immigration or perish but it is impossible to do with the T's in command.


It looks like the Immigration bill will die--they decided it would only expand the Democratic Party....so much for pulling Latinos into their corner...keep it up Republicans....:)
 
Top Bottom