Extradition of Julian Assange undermines freedom of speech

[Fledermaus]

Hey, I thought you are completing a history degree....where is the impartiality, the analysis of facts? I think... you're full of bs, isn't that a nice way of calling you a liar?
No, unlike you, I'm not prepared to follow sheep, into a slaughterhouse, But them I don't have your axe to grind or bigotry, or parochial bias, that's certainly not "democratic",
But you and your sidekick can keep trying to polish a turd! Me, I'll just call a you both out you for your lack of understanding, but I think that's your environment, and your pal, for hating America and Americans rights.

Calling what you say to be lies is fair game.

And you regurgitate lies regularly.

The only question is if your lies are intentional or simply due to gross and intentional ignorance.

And if one looks at the facts one will realize your stance on the Holocaust is blatantly incorrect.

 

[Fledermaus]

By clasping hands with Netanyahu, ‘top cop’ Kamala Harris whitewashes Israel’s racism - The Grayzone

A friendly meeting California senator and self-declared "top cop" Kamala Harris held with Israel's right-wing Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu shows she is more than willing to throw anti-racism — and Palestinians — under the bus. By Hamzah Raza / AlterNet's Grayzone Project (December 12, 2017)...

thegrayzone.com

You cannot trust the American government as it's owned!

Mandatory Highlanders reference to JOOOOOZ.

 

[Evilroddy]

Assange is more than just a hypocrite, he actively interfered in American elections at the behest of Russia- so in a sense he acted as their direct agent.

It seems you have failed to notice just how selective Assange has been when it came to leaking so-called "truths." He openly said he didnt want Hillary as POTUS and so he only leaked stuff about her, yet nothing about Trump. Nor did he ever dare to leak out anything on Putin.

So if Assange is supposedly the tireless arbiter of truth, why did he pick and choose who he exposed?

PoS:

So what. Newspaper publishers, both domestic and foreign, did suchinterference with great frequency in the 20th Century. There is nothing illegal about having a strong editorial slant in the media.

As to your accusation that Mr. Assange is an agent for Russia, can you prove that? Or is it that Mr. Assange wanted to popularise a new model for journalism in the West and therefore went after Western states acting hypocritically towards their own electorates for the purpose of sensationalism. Publishing revelations about the misdeeds of Russian oligarchs and Mr. Putin was not going to get eyeballs on Wikileaks, but documenting and exposing the lies of the state which is often described as the leader of the free world would. Simple marketing and economics may have been at the root of Mr. Assange's selective leaking, not some dark conspiracy to further Russian state policy. He has leaked material about Russia, but in smaller quantities and with less sensational fanfare.

I wanted Hillary Clinton to lose too. Should I be imprisonned for up to 175 years in a maximum security prison too?

Who said Mr. Assange is a tireless arbiter of truth? He is not. He is an iconoclast who wanted and still wants to publish the dirty little secrets which states keep to deceive their own citizens about how the state conducts its affairs. In Assange's model, the people who read the documents he publishes are the arbiters of truth, not him.

Your rhetoric makes it clear to me that you want Mr. Assange to be prosecuted because you don't like him. But should being unlikable be a crime and should it carry multiple life sentences? The responsibility for keeping state secrets is the state's not the press's. Julian Assange had no obligation to withhold the documents delivered to him by Bradley/Chelsea Manning. American law does not apply to Australians operating out of Germany and Iceland. The Government of the United States committed real crimes against American law and international law in its singleminded pursuit of Julian Assange not to mention in Afghanistan and Iraq. So why would you accept that the alleged criminals should have the right to prosecute the man who made the world aware of their alleged crimes by publishing hard evidence of their committal?

The attack on Mr. Assange by a weaponised American legal system is in fact a much wider attack on press freedom. Mr. Assange did not do anything which his institutional partners like the New York Times, The Guardian, Le Monde and Le Pais did in exposing these documents. So if he is extradited, tried and found guilty, then so are the editors and boards of directors for these institutions of the fourth estate (the press). Mr. Assange is the unprotected, low-hanging fruit which a US Government (claiming the press is an enemy of the state) is going after to set legal precedents in order to attack the press and to nullify the protections granted to the press by the First Ammendment of the US constitution's Bill of Rights.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

 

[PoS]

PoS:

So what. Newspaper publishers, both domestic and foreign, did suchinterference with great frequency in the 20th Century. There is nothing illegal about having a strong editorial slant in the media.

Anyone who interferes should be subjected to the law, its as simple as that.

As to your accusation that Mr. Assange is an agent for Russia, can you prove that?

Exclusive: Security reports reveal how Assange turned an embassy into a command post for election meddling

New documents obtained exclusively by CNN reveal that WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange received in-person deliveries, potentially of hacked materials related to the 2016 US election, during a series of suspicious meetings at the Ecuadorian Embassy in London.

edition.cnn.com

Or is it that Mr. Assange wanted to popularise a new model for journalism in the West and therefore went after Western states acting hypocritically towards their own electorates for the purpose of sensationalism.

LOL Assange is a new model for journalism? What a silly statement.

Publishing revelations about the misdeeds of Russian oligarchs and Mr. Putin was not going to get eyeballs on Wikileaks

Wrong. He didnt expose Putin because he knew he would be killed if he tried. And since the Russians were the ones providing him with the data, he would never go against his masters.

He is an iconoclast

So youre in love with Assange, OK.

Your rhetoric makes it clear to me that you want Mr. Assange to be prosecuted because you don't like him.

Another stupid statement. I am against anyone who is employed by a foreign power to meddle in my country. Just because you are okay with that, doesnt mean anyone else is.

The attack on Mr. Assange by a weaponised American legal system is in fact a much wider attack on press freedom. Mr. Assange did not do anything which his institutional partners like the New York Times, The Guardian, Le Monde and Le Pais did in exposing these documents. So if he is extradited, tried and found guilty, then so are the editors and boards of directors for these institutions of the fourth estate (the press).

Bullshit. Assange hid behind claims he was for freedom of the press, but in fact, he was an agent for Russia. See the above CNN article for proof.

 

[Tigerace117]

Hey, I thought you are completing a history degree....where is the impartiality, the analysis of facts? I think... you're full of bs, isn't that a nice way of calling you a liar?
No, unlike you, I'm not prepared to follow sheep, into a slaughterhouse, But them I don't have your axe to grind or bigotry, or parochial bias, that's certainly not "democratic",
But you and your sidekick can keep trying to polish a turd! Me, I'll just call a you both out you for your lack of understanding, but I think that's your environment, and your pal, for hating America and Americans rights.

The facts have been throughly confirmed and studied at this point. There is no need to pretend to be “impartial” when discussing a blatant lie such as Holocaust denial. I know you are full of bs.....and constantly lying to boot.

Fervently believing in something as idiotic as Holocaust denial is not being “intellectually rigorous“....it’s being a moron. There is no such thing as “bigotry” against Holocaust deniers. And there is no right to spew your vile hatred unchallenged.

Blathering about how I ”hate Americans” because I point out the stupidity of your Holocaust denial crap is utterly moronic.

 

[Jean-s]

The facts have been throughly confirmed and studied at this point. There is no need to pretend to be “impartial” when discussing a blatant lie such as Holocaust denial. I know you are full of bs.....and constantly lying to boot.

Fervently believing in something as idiotic as Holocaust denial is not being “intellectually rigorous“....it’s being a moron. There is no such thing as “bigotry” against Holocaust deniers. And there is no right to spew your vile hatred unchallenged.

Blathering about how I ”hate Americans” because I point out the stupidity of your Holocaust denial crap is utterly moronic.

Please stop making posts about the Final Solution in a thread concerning the persecution of Julian Assange.

 

[Tigerace117]

Please stop making posts about the Final Solution in a thread concerning the persecution of Julian Assange.

Considering that there is no such persecution, I am, once again, going to ignore your attempt at being thread police.

Please stop melting down because you can’t control every comment on an internet discussion board.

 

[Highlanders]

The facts have been throughly confirmed and studied at this point. There is no need to pretend to be “impartial” when discussing a blatant lie such as Holocaust denial. I know you are full of bs.....and constantly lying to boot.

Fervently believing in something as idiotic as Holocaust denial is not being “intellectually rigorous“....it’s being a moron. There is no such thing as “bigotry” against Holocaust deniers. And there is no right to spew your vile hatred unchallenged.

Blathering about how I ”hate Americans” because I point out the stupidity of your Holocaust denial crap is utterly moronic.

Aye..... aye.... aye..... and your history degree is worth all your intellectual ability!

 

[Fledermaus]

Aye..... aye.... aye..... and your history degree is worth all your intellectual ability!

Still waiting for you to get back to me with evidence in regards to the Holocaust.

 

[Fledermaus]

Please stop making posts about the Final Solution in a thread concerning the persecution of Julian Assange.

Julian Assange is a victim of Julian Assange.

 

[Jean-s]

Considering that there is no such persecution, I am, once again, going to ignore your attempt at being thread police.

Please stop melting down because you can’t control every comment on an internet discussion board.

I began this thread and I am trying to keep members on topic.

 

[Evilroddy]

Anyone who interferes should be subjected to the law, its as simple as that.

What law? There is no law preventing journalism during a political election cycle. The Trump Administration has dusted off the Espionage Act of 1917, an act designed to suppress free speech of anti-war dissenters during WWI. If you publicly oppose a foreign war of choice, should you go to jail because your country now finds your freedom of speech to be inconvenient?

So when I, a foreigner, post on this website should I be subject to American law if your government feels my freedom of speech constitutes interference in your political processes? Yeah right! American law does not obtain in foreign and sovereign jurisdictions. Should professional foreign lobbyists be likewise prosecuted for interference in your political processes? Should Americans with dual citizenship be prosecuted if they advocate for the interests of their other loyalty? Mr. Assange operated openly unlike many lobbyists do. But he's on trial.

Exclusive: Security reports reveal how Assange turned an embassy into a command post for election meddling

New documents obtained exclusively by CNN reveal that WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange received in-person deliveries, potentially of hacked materials related to the 2016 US election, during a series of suspicious meetings at the Ecuadorian Embassy in London.

edition.cnn.com

The CNN report was based on the intelligence reports compiled by UC Global, the same company which was hired by the CIA to spy on Assange illegally in the Ecuadorian embassy. The company which conspired with the CIA to kidnap Mr. Assange, to poison him or to murder him by other means as was revealed by the testimony of UC Global employees in the Spanish trial of the company and its owner/CEO David Morales in 2019-2020. These accusations are a matter of court record in the Spanish trial against the CEO of UC Global. Is it not possible that the CIA also paid UC Global to create a false trail to Russia that would assassinate Mr. Assange in the public relations space? The UC Global dossiers are very, very suspect pieces of evidence bought and paid for by the same government which wants to extradite Assange to its jurisdiction.

Assange is a new model for journalism? What a silly statement.

Sorry, but many of the techniques pioneered by Wikileaks to protect its sources were later adopted by the wider press in order to protect their sources too. Journalists learned lots of new trade secrets from Wikileaks and adopted them too.

Wrong. He didnt expose Putin because he knew he would be killed if he tried. And since the Russians were the ones providing him with the data, he would never go against his masters.

That is supposition on your part. What evidence do you have that that would be likely to happen? No invoking the Skripal case in the UK because that is a different kettle of fish. Mr. Skripal was a Russian citizen, a member of the Russian security services and a traitor to his own country. Julian Assange is not an American and can therefore not be a traitor to America. He operated openly and therefore is not a spy, Mike Pompeo's claims notwithstanding. What proof can you provide that Russia would kill Mr. Assange who actually did publish embarrassing documents to Russia?

So youre in love with Assange, OK.

Yeah, right. No I am in love with the Rule of Law, with the freedom of the press, with the social utility of effective and ruthless investigative journalism and with proper due process in fair trials.

Another stupid statement. I am against anyone who is employed by a foreign power to meddle in my country. Just because you are okay with that, doesnt mean anyone else is.

So foreign ambassadors and their staffs should be tried too? You did say "anyone". What about foreign celebrities who weigh in on American domestic politics? Where does your blanket statement end and reason begin?

[/QUOTE]Bullshit. Assange hid behind claims he was for freedom of the press, but in fact, he was an agent for Russia. See the above CNN article for proof.[/QUOTE]

The CNN report is based on very suspect evidence from a compromised source with a vested interest in damning Mr. Assange in the public's eyes. So you better put on some gloves because you've now got a mess you're going to have to try to stuff back up the bull's backside. The CU Global dossiers would never stand up in an impartial court, now that the story behind their purchase by the CIA's agents is part of the public record.

Continued next post.

 

[Evilroddy]

But then you're not interested in the Rule of Law, fair trials or freedom of the press. You seem to believe that Mr. Assange's life and freedom should be forfeit since he embarrassed the US Government and its allies like the UK concerning document disclosures stolen by Bradley/Chelsea Manning, not Julian Assange. Manning was the thief and Assange was the publisher. The Clinton staffers wrote those e-mails, not Mr. Assange who only published them. That's what good investigative journalists do. They disclose and expose the secrets of the powerful after verifying that they are accurate sources and inform the public so that governments remain responsible to their electorates.

But Assange is a bit of a butt-wipe, so "Lock Him Up!". Never mind the law, the Rule of Law, procedural law, extrajurisdictional prosecution and freedom of the press. They're irrelevant because he's a dick, so get him! I get you.

Cheers, be well and and enjoy your legal and constitutional freedoms while they last.
Evilroddy

 

[Tigerace117]

I began this thread and I am trying to keep members on topic.

The fact that Assange‘s supporters include Holocaust deniers is absolutely relevant.

 

[Tigerace117]

Aye..... aye.... aye..... and your history degree is worth all your intellectual ability!

So in other words the Holocaust denier has no evidence, no facts and no argument.....just spewing vile, anti Semitic hatred

 

[Jean-s]

The fact that Assange‘s supporters include Holocaust deniers is absolutely relevant.

Why not start your own thread about the Final Solution?

 

[Tigerace117]

Why not start your own thread about the Final Solution?

I have before, and I likely will again in the future.

 

[PoS]

What law? There is no law preventing journalism during a political election cycle. The Trump Administration has dusted off the Espionage Act of 1917, an act designed to suppress free speech of anti-war dissenters during WWI. If you publicly oppose a foreign war of choice, should you go to jail because your country now finds your freedom of speech to be inconvenient?

So when I, a foreigner, post on this website should I be subject to American law if your government feels my freedom of speech constitutes interference in your political processes? Yeah right! American law does not obtain in foreign and sovereign jurisdictions. Should professional foreign lobbyists be likewise prosecuted for interference in your political processes? Should Americans with dual citizenship be prosecuted if they advocate for the interests of their other loyalty? Mr. Assange operated openly unlike many lobbyists do. But he's on trial.

Exclusive: Security reports reveal how Assange turned an embassy into a command post for election meddling

New documents obtained exclusively by CNN reveal that WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange received in-person deliveries, potentially of hacked materials related to the 2016 US election, during a series of suspicious meetings at the Ecuadorian Embassy in London.

edition.cnn.com

The CNN report was based on the intelligence reports compiled by UC Global, the same company which was hired by the CIA to spy on Assange illegally in the Ecuadorian embassy. The company which conspired with the CIA to kidnap Mr. Assange, to poison him or to murder him by other means as was revealed by the testimony of UC Global employees in the Spanish trial of the company and its owner/CEO David Morales in 2019-2020. These accusations are a matter of court record in the Spanish trial against the CEO of UC Global. Is it not possible that the CIA also paid UC Global to create a false trail to Russia that would assassinate Mr. Assange in the public relations space? The UC Global dossiers are very, very suspect pieces of evidence bought and paid for by the same government which wants to extradite Assange to its jurisdiction.

Oh so we should disregard a major news article because... you say so? Your posts are a joke- its clear you have an obsession with Assange and are perfectly okay with foreign powers interfering in other countries. Good to know.

Go to the CT forum and state your silly stuff over there.

 

[iguanaman]

NWRatCon:

Is Mr. Assange required by law to protect third parties working as proxies for a foreign government in yet another foreign country? No, he is not. Neither he nor Wikileaks was ever under a legal or moral obligation to protect the secrets of a foreign country which his organisation acquired and released. The responsibility to protect those secrets was solely that of the United States Government. That government failed in its duty not Mr. Assange's Wikileaks which did exactly what journalists are supposed to do.

He is an Australian citizen based out of Europe who released documents produced by the USA about affaires and events occurring in the Middle East and Africa. This is thus an extrajurisdictional prosecution attempt, endeavouring to extend American Law to foreign citizens operating in foreign countries regarding events occurring in third party states.

He was very careful about not naming sources, so much so that the five newspapers he was working with on these document releases are on record as being frustrated with his diligence and demanding that he speed up his vetting process. These five newspapers released the information but neither they nor any of their agents have faced any legal consequences for what they did, unlike Mr. Assange.

The US Government is running roughshod over the British judiciary with the help of the U.K. Foreign Office. Since when does a foreign state or the Foreign Office get to control the terms and procedures of a prosecution occurring in the UK. The answer was never, until Sept. 7, 2020 when this trial and affront to the Rule of Law began.

This trial is going to establish very, very dangerous precedents for domestic and international law regarding freedom of the press and the trade craft of journalism. Journalists are not agents of a state and have no obligation whatsoever to protect the secrets of foreign states. This is an attempt to put international and national security journalism into shackles and make it enthralled to powerful foreign states and to serve their interests. This is disgusting and the railroading of this case is even more disgusting. America and the UK should be ashamed of their legal institutions and international journalism should disclose every crippling secret they can to hamstring these two growingly authoritarian states, which are weaponising the Rule of Law as a tool for enforcing national security and empire. The Titans must be brought down and humbled; anyone or group who has the guts and skills to do this will be the new Olympians.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

Assange is a Putin toady and has lied non-stop to help his benefactor. I want him to rot in jail for life.

 

[Evilroddy]

Oh so we should disregard a major news article because... you say so? Your posts are a joke- its clear you have an obsession with Assange and are perfectly okay with foreign powers interfering in other countries. Good to know.

Go to the CT forum and state your silly stuff over there.

PoS:

Not my say so. There is a legal battle raging between a Spanish National Court and the US Government over the Spanish company UC Global's activities at the Ecuadorian Embassy in London regarding Mr. Assange.

US demands hinder Spanish probe into alleged CIA ties to security firm that spied on Assange

American prosecutors want to know the judge’s sources before cooperating in an investigation into whether UC Global gave intelligence services sensitive material on the cyber-activist

english.elpais.com

Spanish court to question witnesses over ‘illegal surveillance’ of WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange | Computer Weekly

The Spanish National Court in Madrid is to hear evidence from information security expert Andy Müller-Maguhn and two lawyers who were subject to ‘illegal surveillance’ of their meetings with Julian Assange at the Ecuadorian Embassy in London.

www.computerweekly.com

So no need to go to the CT Forum as my case here is entirely based in facts established by courts in the UK, the US and Spain. What hard evidence have you provided? One CNN article based on a pair of volumes of dossiers from UC Global. That evidence was collected illegally by a company working indirectly for an agency of the US Government which was paying the Spanish company to, among other things, poison or kidnap Mr. Assange. All of this is a matter of court record.

In short you're wrong.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

 

[Evilroddy]

Assange is a Putin toady and has lied non-stop to help his benefactor. I want him to rot in jail for life.

Iguanaman:

A passionate diatribe for sure but not a sound legal case at all. Why should Mr. Assange rot in jail for life while the editorial boards of the New York Times, The Guardian, Le Pais, Le Monde, etc. not face the same fate, because they were partners with Assange's Wikileaks and also published the very same articles for public review? This is selective and extrajurisdictional prosecution both of which are against the Rule of Law.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

 

[Jean-s]

Assange is a Putin toady and has lied non-stop to help his benefactor. I want him to rot in jail for life.

More citizens per capita rot in American prisons than any western democracy, many of which on minor and even trumped up marijuana charges. What truly rots is the American judicial system and the police which keep it functioning. The blonde plaited guards act like something from Ravensbrück when dealing with visitors to Latino and Black inmates.

 

[PoS]

PoS:

Not my say so. There is a legal battle raging between a Spanish National Court and the US Government over the Spanish company UC Global's activities at the Ecuadorian Embassy in London regarding Mr. Assange.

US demands hinder Spanish probe into alleged CIA ties to security firm that spied on Assange

American prosecutors want to know the judge’s sources before cooperating in an investigation into whether UC Global gave intelligence services sensitive material on the cyber-activist

english.elpais.com

Spanish court to question witnesses over ‘illegal surveillance’ of WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange | Computer Weekly

The Spanish National Court in Madrid is to hear evidence from information security expert Andy Müller-Maguhn and two lawyers who were subject to ‘illegal surveillance’ of their meetings with Julian Assange at the Ecuadorian Embassy in London.

www.computerweekly.com

So no need to go to the CT Forum as my case here is entirely based in facts established by courts in the UK, the US and Spain. What hard evidence have you provided? One CNN article based on a pair of volumes of dossiers from UC Global. That evidence was collected illegally by a company working indirectly for an agency of the US Government which was paying the Spanish company to, among other things, poison or kidnap Mr. Assange. All of this is a matter of court record.

In short you're wrong.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

So your contention is that its okay for Assange and his stooges to hack into private emails, but its not okay for the US government to do it while trying to bring him to justice? Does the word hypocrisy mean anything to you?

FYI, nothing in those silly articles you linked disproves the CNN article. There were indeed Russians who visited Assange while he was hiding in the embassy, that much is certain.

How's the traffic in Dzerzhinsky Square today, comrade?

 

[bomberfox]

And how do you know about this piece of trivial gossip if not because of dirty tricks.

Americans do not know the half of what crimes are done covertly in their name by the CIA and the State Department. You couldn't sell a newspaper in America if you reported the facts.

most of the crimes committed by the CIA are covered by historians on the regular.

 

[bomberfox]

And how do you know about this piece of trivial gossip if not because of dirty tricks.

That’s because they generally are. Enemies of the CIA rarely, if ever, bother to differentiate between the two.

Depending on if such enemies have strategic recources in latin and south america.