Extradition of Julian Assange undermines freedom of speech

[Jean-s]

So in other words it’s a case of “he said he said”, and given Assange’s other comments about how “reasonable“ the Taliban‘s efforts to hunt down “spies and collaborators” are, I know what “he said” is more credible. Your source doesn’t “debunk” anything by the way; it repeats the “the Taliban wasn’t able to actually murder any of the people Julian Assange exposed, so its all good” line. Then it quotes Julian Assange‘s lawyer as a, shall we say, “witness for the defense“, tries to shift the blame for Assange placing those working against the Taliban in danger onto everyone else, and....doesn’t exactly disprove anything. It’s nothing more than an Assange supporter declaring that everyone is out to get him and thinking just repeating that over and over again is an argument.

The Americans and the Taliban are buddies now. Donald Trump seems to respect the North Koreans, Russians, and Duterte in the Philippines too. What a crazy country, praising terrorists and dictators while badmouthing traditional allies. Incredible.

 

[Evilroddy]

So in other words it’s a case of “he said he said”, and given Assange’s other comments about how “reasonable“ the Taliban‘s efforts to hunt down “spies and collaborators” are, I know what “he said” is more credible. Your source doesn’t “debunk” anything by the way; it repeats the “the Taliban wasn’t able to actually murder any of the people Julian Assange exposed, so its all good” line. Then it quotes Julian Assange‘s lawyer as a, shall we say, “witness for the defense“, tries to shift the blame for Assange placing those working against the Taliban in danger onto everyone else, and....doesn’t exactly disprove anything. It’s nothing more than an Assange supporter declaring that everyone is out to get him and thinking just repeating that over and over again is an argument.

Tigerace117:

No, again you have missed the point. Your whole narrative of Assange releasing the names of those cooperating with the USA in Afghanistan is wrong. He didn't do it. Leigh and Hardy did, by providing the public with a viable password to a secured cache of documents in their book. Your narrative is based on disinformation and what you want to believe rather than the facts which have come out in the trials of Chelsea Manning, UC Global and the extradition hearing of Mr. Assange. It's the facts, not your spin prefaced by phrases like, "So in other words..." That must determine the case and it's the facts that clearly point to US Government illegalities which must be considered as actions which nullify the American Government's case, like they did in the Daniel Ellsberg case almost 50 years ago. Finally the facts that the US has no jurisdiction to pursue this case in the way they are doing is a body of facts which must be considered. Mine is a cold legal argument based on facts in the legal records of three countries in contrast to your passion driven narrative which I have repeatedly shown does not align with the facts.

Be well.
Evilroddy.

 

[swing_voter]

If there's so much evidence in favor of Assange's innocence, let us try him.

We have fair courts.

It's foreigner's hatred of America that drives Assange's supporters. They see Assange as the man who stuck it to America, therefore, a great hero.

 

[Evilroddy]

I guess that's it then. He's innocent.

Swing_voter:

Innocent? Probably not. Prosecutable by the US Government? Definitely not. If there is a case to be made it should happen before an Icelandic, a German or an Australian tribunal, all of which would have jurisdiction over judging Mr. Assange's actions and motives.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

 

[Evilroddy]

If there were media outlets that did the same things Assange did like serving as a tool for foreign intel units, then by all means the government should go after them.

You seem to think that its okay for third parties to hack into other people's private databanks and publish propaganda against any country without any consequences. That is just wrong, and I wonder where your own ethics lie.

PoS:

Assange did not hack into these systems. Manning and unidentified others did. You're trying to convict him of a crime which he did not do. What Wikileaks did under his direction is publish documents after vetting them for authenticity and redacting information which would have produced a reasonable threat of physical harm to named sources in the disclosed documents, just as the editorial boards of the NYT, The Guardian, Le Monde, Der Spiegel and Le Pais did. These five newspapers cooperated with Wikileaks and mimicked exactly what Wikileaks did but they are not under prosecution because as the Obama Administration Justice Department concluded the first Ammendment and extrajurisdictional overreach meant that the cases would fail.

However, the Trump Administration has decided to ignore the Rule of Law and move forward on this highly flawed case, selectively, target Julian Assange and Wikileaks only. They have no jurisdiction to do this, they have said they intend to apply American law but to deny American constitutional and legal protections, and the US Government has conspired through its agents to have third parties like UC Global commit illegal acts like, theft, illegal surveillance, kidnapping and poisoning (murder) to "get" Mr. Assange. No impartial tribunal could ignore these legally established facts and grant extradition to a state which has repeatedly, maliciously and with murderous intent acted against the man they wish to have delivered into their custody and control.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

 

[Evilroddy]

If there's so much evidence in favor of Assange's innocence, let us try him.

We have fair courts.

It's foreigner's hatred of America that drives Assange's supporters. They see Assange as the man who stuck it to America, therefore, a great hero.

Swing_voter:

The US does not have jurisdiction to try and judge the actions of Australians operating outside of US sovereign territory in Europe. Let Icelandic, German or Australian tribunals do it if they can make a case.

Fair courts? The District of Virginia, where the pool of grand jurors is likely to be people associated with the surveillance and security industry or public sector? The District where the US Government and to a lesser extent the CIA (based at Langley Virginia) are some of the major employers and influencers in the region? Nice try there SV.

This is not about hatred of the USA or even the US Government. This is about the Rule of Law and a rogue US Justice Department under the Trump Administration flaunting the law. Facts don't hate America and facts are what this case must be resolved by. So you might reconsider what I assume to be a transparent attempt to troll this thread and focus on the facts rather than widening divides between clashing posters in civil debate.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

 

[swing_voter]

Swing_voter:

The US does not have jurisdiction to try and judge the actions of Australians operating outside of US sovereign territory in Europe. Let Icelandic, German or Australian tribunals do it if they can make a case.

Fair courts? The District of Virginia, where the pool of grand jurors is likely to be people associated with the surveillance and security industry or public sector? The District where the US Government and to a lesser extent the CIA (based at Langley Virginia) are some of the major employers and influencers in the region? Nice try there SV.

This is not about hatred of the USA or even the US Government. This is about the Rule of Law and a rogue US Justice Department under the Trump Administration flaunting the law. Facts don't hate America and facts are what this case must be resolved by. So you might reconsider what I assume to be a transparent attempt to troll this thread and focus on the facts rather than widening divides between clashing posters in civil debate.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

Naw, it's about hatred of America.

Assange stuck it to America and is a great hero to foreigners.

You saying he can't get a fair trial in America is laughable.

 

[Evilroddy]

Naw, it's about hatred of America.

Assange stuck it to America and is a great hero to foreigners.

You saying he can't get a fair trial in America is laughable.

Swing_voter:

Facts would indicate otherwise. Did the 40 or so prisoners in Guantanamo Bay ever get fair trials? Read your own legal history. America like just about any other country has plenty of examples of miscarriages of justice in its legal history. Take off your rose-coloured glasses and see the world and America for what they really are, not what you would hope them to be. America is a fallible and prone to corruption of its legal system as any other state on this globe. Is it the worst? No. Is the best? No. But its legal system is subject to perversion from money, power or public outcry, just as other systems in other states are.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

 

[PoS]

PoS:

Assange did not hack into these systems. Manning and unidentified others did.

So what? He put them up on the net for all to see, that makes him guilty. With your logic, you must think its okay to post kiddie porn as long as you didnt produce it? Ridiculous.

 

[bomberfox]

Tigerace117:

Clearly you did not read my post thoroughly. I never equated the Mujihaddin with the Taliban, I laid out a progression over time of ramafications to Operation Cyclone by the US Government. I explained that the Soviets and their Afghan auxillaries killed millions of Afghans, so yes I realize how brutal the Soviets were, a brutality equated by the US in Vietnam a decade and more before the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. You need not quote vapid Wikipaeda articles at me.

No, the wackos were wackos and did not cease to be wackos because they were in service to your government's destabilising strategic objectives.

Assange needs no excuse, he is not bound by loyalty or allegience to either America or Afghanistan as he is not a citizen or operating in either country. Just like a foreign reporter who reports witness testimony in an organised crime case is not responsible for any harm done to a witness, nor is Assange responsible for the fates of American and Afghan agents operating on behalf of the American Government. Those agents made their own decisions to put themselves in harm's way, and Assange who made real efforts to conceal their identies bears no responsibility for the choices they made.

If you hack into a US Witness Protection programme then you as an American are subject to American law. If an Australian hacks into a foreign programme from outside that foreign state then he is not criminally liable as the foreign law does not apply extrajurisdictionally.

Assange took extraordinary precautions to protect the identities of people mentioned in the documents which he released and under oath representatives of the US Government have said they have NO EVIDENCE that any Afghan or American had been physically harmed by a Wikileaks disclosure. So your whole argument is hypothetical and moot with respect to the Assange Extradition argument. You cannot prosecute people for what might have happened.

Your last sentence is clearly just baiting, so I will ignore it.

Be well.
Evilroddy.

Thats just bullshit. A responsible whistleblower doesnt put innocent lives in danger. Assange is not a hero more like a reckless guy who managed to do some good by accident. If Assange took extraordinary precautions to protect innocents then their identities would not have surfaced thanks to him.

 

[bomberfox]

If there's so much evidence in favor of Assange's innocence, let us try him.

We have fair courts.

It's foreigner's hatred of America that drives Assange's supporters. They see Assange as the man who stuck it to America, therefore, a great hero.

I doubt he would get a fair trial here.

 

[Jean-s]

New leads suggest CIA spied on Assange to secure his extradition to the US
Spain’s High Court is probing ties between American intelligence and a Spanish security firm that made secret recordings of the WikiLeaks founder at the Ecuadorean embassy in London
New evidence suggests that the CIA’s shadow loomed over WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange for several months during his long stay at the Ecuadorian embassy in London, through the cooperation of a Spanish security firm that made audio and video recordings of the Australian activist’s conversations with his lawyers and allegedly relayed this material to US intelligence services. On Monday, a judge in London ruled against extraditing the cyber-activist to the US, where he is facing espionage charges over WikiLeaks’ release of classified military and diplomatic material in 2010.
https://english.elpais.com/spanish_...ange-to-secure-his-extradition-to-the-us.html

Ex-Spanish Marine Officer David Morales currently under arrest

The Americans have refused to co-operate with the Spanish court's request for information regarding those who accessed the hacked data. The Spanish outfit which spied on Assange was set up by a former Spanish military officer, David Morales, who has been arrested by Spanish authorities on a charge of spying as well as bribery and money laundering in the city of Jerez de la Frontera (Andalúcia). It appears that Mike Pompeo's spiteful decision to target Julian Assange has not worked thanks to the English judge to refuse extradition this week.

 

[swing_voter]

They refused to extradite him because Assange was going to kill himself.

Seems like we could've killed two birds with one stone.

 

[Peter King]

Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva (former president of Brazil) champions the cause of Julian Assange.

"The British courts will soon be deciding the fate of the Australian journalist Julian Assange, a man who has been unjustly charged as a criminal. Assange committed no crime. He is a champion of the cause of freedom. The UK will say whether it will accept or deny the request for the extradition of Assange to the US, where he will face 18 charges brought against him by the government of that country. If he is extradited, Assange, 49, could be tried and sentenced to up to 175 years in prison, the equivalent of a life sentence. We must keep this outrage from happening. I call on all those committed to the cause of freedom of speech in every corner of the world to join me in an international effort to defend the innocence of Assange and demand his immediate release."
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...lian-assange-wikileaks-democracy-not-criminal

Assange is being scapegoated for providing evidence of American war crimes to various newspapers who carried the story yet no editors or reporters from El País, Le Monde, The Guardian, Der Spiegel, and The New York Times is wanted by the Trump administration. These publications should be among the first to be defending Assange and not just reporting on what the English court is doing.

I am a social democrat, but the full release of all this data was irresponsible from Assange, he knowingly broke the law and now that has come home to bite him on the back.

 

[Jean-s]

I am a social democrat, but the full release of all this data was irresponsible from Assange, he knowingly broke the law and now that has come home to bite him on the back.

We are on page 15 of this thread and you are clearly not following the debate. I will not test others' patience by repeating various arguments except to say that it was Bradley Manning, not Julian Assange, who was the whistleblower.

 

[joluoto]

I am a social democrat, but the full release of all this data was irresponsible from Assange, he knowingly broke the law and now that has come home to bite him on the back.

WikiLeaks is an incredibly irresponsible organization.

 

[Jean-s]

WikiLeaks is an incredibly irresponsible organization.

Wikileaks is not half as irresponsible as governments who try to keep their crimes secrets from the people.

 

[Highlanders]

They refused to extradite him because Assange was going to kill himself.

Seems like we could've killed two birds with one stone.

That's the type of comment I'd of expected from an American! A lack of empathy understanding and basic humanity!

The man "Assange", has lifted the veil on American torture programmes, rape sodomy and murder of innocent prisoners men women and even children, the American butchery, savagery and criminal activity, of the American military, in sovereign nations they have invaded and dirtied by their very presence!

Not that that either would infiltrate the fog that emanates from dense undergrowth!

 

[joluoto]

Wikileaks is not half as irresponsible as governments who try to keep their crimes secrets from the people.

They should stop doxing innocent people or post medical files of rape victims or releasing people's credit card information.

 

[Highlanders]

They should stop doxing innocent people or post medical files of rape victims or releasing people's credit card information.

And my friend, you ought to know the facts!

Wiki, went to great lengths to ensure individuals safety, if you want redress in the criminal activities in banking circles, speak to the banks, and American government, medical files, the American government and there security apparatus.
For rape victims, they certainly don't get any redress, especially if the rape was committed in American military premises, speak to the American military where rape is endemic, or the law is unaffordable!

 

[Peter King]

We are on page 15 of this thread and you are clearly not following the debate. I will not test others' patience by repeating various arguments except to say that it was Bradley Manning, not Julian Assange, who was the whistleblower.

I responded to the first post, which is how you do things, you don't read from the back to the front but the other way around. And it does not change my views, Assange broke the law in an irresponsible way and has to pay the penalty for that.

 

[Peter King]

WikiLeaks is an incredibly irresponsible organization.

the wholesale posting of secret information is not incredibly responsible IMO.

 

[joluoto]

And my friend, you ought to know the facts!

Wiki, went to great lengths to ensure individuals safety, if you want redress in the criminal activities in banking circles, speak to the banks, and American government, medical files, the American government and there security apparatus.
For rape victims, they certainly don't get any redress, especially if the rape was committed in American military premises, speak to the American military where rape is endemic, or the law is unaffordable!

Umm American? The rape victims were Saudi. They released a whole bunch of random Saudi documents a couple of years ago including tons of medical information. They also released a bunch of random Turkish documents, including a database with alot of personal information. And there were tons of credit card numbers and social security in their release of the DNC leak four years ago. They are obviously not vetting what they release. Also in their Saudi leaks there was tons of credit card details of Saudi doctors released.

 

[Highlanders]

Umm American? The rape victims were Saudi. They released a whole bunch of random Saudi documents a couple of years ago including tons of medical information. They also released a bunch of random Turkish documents, including a database with alot of personal information. And there were tons of credit card numbers and social security in their release of the DNC leak four years ago. They are obviously not vetting what they release. Also in their Saudi leaks there was tons of credit card details of Saudi doctors released.

Wrong! As those forced to resign there commissions, there rank there jobs..... and no redress, indemic abuse.
Saudi.... Saudi, that dictatorship your politicians encourage to chop off heads of even children stoning women and men, chopping off hands etc! Let's just ignore they murder 3000 Americans, supposedly.
All software is controlled by the American banks through the Fed, how else can America and the aristocracy hide laundered heroin money? So credit card corruption is a financial tool! Millions of credit cards and personnel information was released on numberious occasions, by American banks, as they could make even more money!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_assault_in_the_United_States_military
And I have no time for wiki!

 

[Jean-s]

the wholesale posting of secret information is not incredibly responsible IMO.

It was several newspapers such as the New York Times, The Guardian and several others which published the information, not Wikileaks, We already made this clear earlier in the thread.