Extra-Terrestrial life (1 Viewer)

[The Real McCoy]

What does everyone think about life beyond Earth when taking into account the trillions upon trillions of stars in the universe and also the odds and the mathematical precision that makes life possible here on Earth. For the religious folk here: keep in mind that the Bible never directly states life to be unique to our planet... the universe has always been full of surprises discovered by astronomers (particularly in the last 500 years) which have continuously altered our understanding of our place in the cosmos throughout history.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Life on other planets is a near-certainty.

 

[Kandahar]

With trillions of stars in each galaxy and trillions of galaxies in the universe, I think it is nearly impossible for life to NOT exist elsewhere. And with that said, certainly more than one of those many extraterrestrial species has far surpassed human level intelligence.

 

[FinnMacCool]

The Universe is eternity and eternity is very wide. Anything could be going on anywhere. If you go beyond our galazy there are thousands upon thousands more galaxies. If you go beyond that, who knows? So therefore, how can one possibly say that there is no chance that there is no life outside our own?

 

[Kandahar]

For any naysayers or for those of you who are unsure, I present you with the Drake Equation for calculating the number of extraterrestrial civilizations.

I realize that this formula is designed to calculate the number of intelligent species we humans might communicate with in our own galaxy...but a little tinkering with the equation and you'll be able to estimate the number of intelligent civilizations throughout the universe.

Even if you use the most conservative plausible estimates, your answer will still be much greater than one.

 

[Hoot]

Of course there's extra-terrestial life.

I even believe in an alternate universe, a bizarro world, where republicans actually do what's good for the country! ROTFL!!!!

 

[The Real McCoy]

For any naysayers or for those of you who are unsure, I present you with the Drake Equation for calculating the number of extraterrestrial civilizations.

Some of these estimates are extremely optimistic and questionable...

ne = the average number of planets (or rather satelites; moons may perhaps sometimes be just as good candidates) which can potentially support life per star that has planets

Estimated by Drake as 2.

2?? Where the hell does he get that??

fi = the fraction of the above which actually go on to develop intelligent life

Estimated by Drake as 0.01.
Today, solar systems in galactic orbits with radiation exposure as low as Earth's solar system are thought to be more than 100,000 times rarer, however, giving a value of fi = 1×10-7.

Almost, Drakey...

fc = the fraction of the above which are willing and able to communicate

Estimated by Drake as 0.01.

And he came to this conclusion... how?


How is it that this equation get so much credit?

 

[Kandahar]

Some of these estimates are extremely optimistic and questionable...

ne = the average number of planets (or rather satelites; moons may perhaps sometimes be just as good candidates) which can potentially support life per star that has planets

Estimated by Drake as 2.

2?? Where the hell does he get that??

fi = the fraction of the above which actually go on to develop intelligent life

Estimated by Drake as 0.01.
Today, solar systems in galactic orbits with radiation exposure as low as Earth's solar system are thought to be more than 100,000 times rarer, however, giving a value of fi = 1×10-7.

Almost, Drakey...

fc = the fraction of the above which are willing and able to communicate

Estimated by Drake as 0.01.

And he came to this conclusion... how?


How is it that this equation get so much credit?

The point is not the numbers that Drake himself estimated. The point is the equation itself. You can plug in your own numbers, and even if they're as conservative as is reasonably plausible, the number of intelligent civilizations in the universe will almost certainly be greater than one.

Of course, you need to tinker with the equation somewhat to calculate the number of intelligent civilizations in the universe. The fc term can be eliminated from the equation, and you need to add a term (we'll call it Ng) which is the estimated number of galaxies in the universe.

 

[MDSkinsInNC]

There is definitely intelligent life out there in the universe, even in the Milky Way galaxy. According to estimates by Carl Sagan, one of the greatest minds of the 20th century, there are about 1 billion planets in the Milky Way that have some sort of life, be it single-cell or as complicated as we are.

He estimates that there are only 10 planets in the Milky Way, including us, that have life as advanced or in the neighborhood of our present state on Earth.

Ten. Out of over 100,000,000,000 stars each having about 10 planets, there are just TEN in the entire GALAXY!

Awesome.

 

[The Real McCoy]

http://www.nmsu.edu/~ucomm/Releases/2001/December2001/astrobiology.html

 

[Kandahar]

http://www.nmsu.edu/~ucomm/Releases/2001/December2001/astrobiology.html

So even if the conditions for life are rare, are you (and he) claiming that there's not one other planet, out of trillions of stars in trillions of galaxies, that meets these conditions?

 

[The Real McCoy]

So even if the conditions for life are rare, are you (and he) claiming that there's not one other planet, out of trillions of stars in trillions of galaxies, that meets these conditions?

No. Well, I can't speak for him but I'm not...

I'm trying to take a neutral stance here, pointing out the countless stars in the universe but also the countless factors contributing to the process we know as our own consciousness.

I'm not saying there is life (intelligent anyway) out there and I'm not saying there isn't. I said "unsure" because I feel our minds are naturally filled with assumptions and presuppositions about the possibility of life on other planets.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Another somewhat related question is whether or not any ETs have found a way to overcome the numerous obstacles to interstellar flight.

 

[The Real McCoy]

Another somewhat related question is whether or not any ETs have found a way to overcome the numerous obstacles to interstellar flight.

A long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away...

 

[Conflict]

Trace the issue back to Darpa, groomlake, White Sands, Los Alamos, Sandia, Edwards AFB, and the collective refusal by such institiutions to openly discuss their operations...

The answer is obvious....

Some (objectionable sources) would say that not only do "they" exist.. but that sects of our nation are in cahoots with them. Sure... it sounds crazy... but..... who really knows? Somebody does.

 

[kal-el]

My take on it is, I think we are extremely narcissistic to think we are the only ones. Like Bruno said, and the Vatican burned him at the stake for it, there's probably an infinite number of inhabited planets out there. I'm sure some species have mastered interstellar travel, but why the hell would such a species want to visit puny earthlings? Such a species has to be so far advanced, thus are probably above right or wrong, and wars and such. If the universe is infinite, (and it's not proven to be) anyway you look, space continues forever.

I'm sure there's other human-like species on another planet, having the exact same discussion we are.:lol:

 

[teacher]

Ah.......Billo?

 

[Kandahar]

No. Well, I can't speak for him but I'm not...

I'm trying to take a neutral stance here, pointing out the countless stars in the universe but also the countless factors contributing to the process we know as our own consciousness.

I'm not saying there is life (intelligent anyway) out there and I'm not saying there isn't. I said "unsure" because I feel our minds are naturally filled with assumptions and presuppositions about the possibility of life on other planets.

Fair enough. But even if you took a more-conservative-than-is-realistically-possible estimate of the number of planets that had the characteristics for life (say, one in a quadrillion) and assumed that all life is like earth-life and can't form under any different conditions, the universe would still have millions of planets with life. I say that it's more conservative than realistically possible, because of the number of near misses (or possible successes) just within our OWN solar system.

 

[Kandahar]

Another somewhat related question is whether or not any ETs have found a way to overcome the numerous obstacles to interstellar flight.

Probably. At least some planets that develop life would find an evolutionary benefit in intelligence. And any given intelligent species is almost certainly far, far more advanced than ours, since humans have only existed for 100,000 years or so (a blink of an eye in cosmological terms).

 

[Kandahar]

Trace the issue back to Darpa, groomlake, White Sands, Los Alamos, Sandia, Edwards AFB, and the collective refusal by such institiutions to openly discuss their operations...

The answer is obvious....

Some (objectionable sources) would say that not only do "they" exist.. but that sects of our nation are in cahoots with them. Sure... it sounds crazy... but..... who really knows? Somebody does.

I think the concept of extraterrestrial life is really harmed by unwanted associations with flaky UFOlogists and the like. These pseudoscientists and conspiracy theorists don't really have much of a case for the existence of UFOs, but that doesn't change the fact that extraterrestrial life elsewhere in the universe is very likely.

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

How is it that this equation get so much credit?

Because it's just like the Bible. You can make it say anything you want it to.

It's also useless, for the same reason.

Fermi's Paradox is much more useful:

If there is intelligent life out there, why isn't it here?

The assumption behind this is that beyond any reasonable doubt, humanity has to be the youngest space faring species in the galaxy (weren't even that when Fermi made his observation). Any other space faring species has to be older and thus technologically advanced than we are. They have to have answers to space travel questions we haven't even considered yet.

So where are they?

All that being said, there's only one certainty. Only one planet explored by man has ever had life, that we're sure of. And only one planet are we certain fits the conditions we think are essential to life. There's no point in extrapolating to any conclusions when only a single data point exists. There's an infinite number of lines passing through that point.

 

[Kandahar]

Because it's just like the Bible. You can make it say anything you want it to.

Plug in any reasonable numbers you like, and I guarantee you that the total number of civilizations in the universe will be greater than one (or even more, if you instead figure the number of planets with ANY life).

Fermi's Paradox is much more useful:

If there is intelligent life out there, why isn't it here?
The assumption behind this is that beyond any reasonable doubt, humanity has to be the youngest space faring species in the galaxy (weren't even that when Fermi made his observation).

I'll agree with that assumption.

Any other space faring species has to be older and thus technologically advanced than we are. They have to have answers to space travel questions we haven't even considered yet.

So where are they?

There are lots of possible answers. Maybe other species simply haven't found us. Maybe they have, but don't care about us. Maybe there are simply other worlds that they're more interested in than ours. Maybe they're observing us, but choose to remain undetected for whatever reason. Or maybe other species simply aren't interested in colonizing or exploring space at all.

All that being said, there's only one certainty. Only one planet explored by man has ever had life, that we're sure of. And only one planet are we certain fits the conditions we think are essential to life. There's no point in extrapolating to any conclusions when only a single data point exists. There's an infinite number of lines passing through that point.

I agree that a lot of this is hard to extrapolate until we've explored more worlds, but I do think that a few meaningful conclusions can be drawn. Yes, the earth is the only world in our solar system that PRECISELY meets the conditions for earthly life (almost by definition). But seeing as how microorganisms live everywhere on earth, from inside the polar ice caps to inside volcanoes to inside thermal springs, I don't think we can yet conclusively rule out the possibility that we're alone even in our solar system. If nothing else, Mars and Titan are both "near misses" for the conditions necessary for life, which leads me to believe that it's not entirely uncommon for such worlds to exist.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Fermi's Paradox is much more useful:
If there is intelligent life out there, why isn't it here?
So where are they?

The universe is big.
This means they likely have a long way to go, and a lot of area to search - assuming they are searching.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

The universe is big.
This means they likely have a long way to go, and a lot of area to search - assuming they are searching.

Exactly.
A species may have scoured 90% of the thing [a stunningly phenomenal feat] and still have an incredibly huge amount left to go.

 

[Bustabush]

I picked "unsure" becase I have seen no evidence for or against to be conclusive. However, I don't understand way everyone has virtually the same idea that life must exist. Why does it? I see no real compelling reason to think so.