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Explosive Growth of Militias

Goshin said:
Yeah, I'm not surprised you like something Mahler said.
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Why don't you comment on what he said and save the snarky remarks?

Breitbart liked Maher enough to go on his regularly. Intelligent conversation doesn't have to feel like Kryptonite.

I've known a good many homeschooled children. Oddly enough most of them came across as very intelligent and mature, and well-behaved, and grew up to be remakably successful adults.
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So have I. And the ones who get into college are really more privately tutored, than "home schooled" by parents. Meaning, their parents weren't their real teachers. Home schooling works when it's a group of parents pooling resources, and acknowledging their own limitations.

Mahler was commenting on the notion that college is about exposure to new ideas, and how a lot of home schooling goes on for religious reasons--parents afraid their kids are going to be exposed to Darwin, critical thinking, and history. How about giving kids a choice? They are robbing their kids of the skills they need to live and succeed outside of their tiny little church community.

The Weavers were an odd bunch sure... like the Branch Davidians.... but I can't lay my finger of that article of the Constitution where being "odd" was a capital offense in America....
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Agreed, lives were needless lost. But there's guilt on both sides. Everybody's hands were dirty. And the law of the land doesn't end with the constitution.
 

You're just ****ing with me now, right?
 
AdamT said:
The ATF's first-ever encounter with Weaver was at an Aryan Nations rally. Just sayin'.
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Does this mean he was a brother? Does it mean he lost his civil rights? He and his family were separatists not supremacists, who Just wanted to be left alone.
 
OpportunityCost said:
Seriously? People dont need a single reason to have their own little armories. They have the right to do so.
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But when they illegal start selling out of that little armory, we can take it away. Lock them in jail. And put their kids in foster homes. Buh-bye...

Also, Re: "Reason" -- the government has the right to ask: "What'er all the guns for, Cowboy? And could you please show us the permits for each and every weapon in your house? Am I mistaken, or did you illegally modify that weapon?"

All very reasonable questions. And if you don't have the right answers, then buh-bye.. Thank you for playing, your armory will destroyed, care to watch?


I wasn't trying to derail, I was trying to put things in perspective. The far-right seems to suspicious of government at all the wrong times. Just my observation.
 
AdamT said:
You're just ****ing with me now, right?
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So not dude. Magna cum laude for.my undergrad in journalism high Honor's with 3.94 Gpa for Masters.
 
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Typos keep coming because I am on my kindle in bed. Have.not slept yet
 
taxigirl said:
He and his family were separatists not supremacists, who Just wanted to be left alone.
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I'm sorry, did they fabricate their own weapons from trees and rocks? Did they only drink rain water and use solar power?

My point is, "to be left alone" in the united states means you live somewhere off-off the grid and produce everything you need. The Weavers drove cars, right? Separatists, my ass. IMO.

Even living in the woods somewhere, you still benefit from the Clean Air Act and other EPA tree and wildlife protections, and should ante up for that...
 

His family were white separatists, this does not make them racist or anti-semitic as various misinformation campaigns would have you believe. Randy believes that by separating the races we can avoid conflict. Right or Wrong, that is his prerogative and he should not be persecuted for that. I think the "separatist" you are referring to is an "isolationist".
 

(1) They were selling guns illegally from their private collection? Don't know about Idaho, but I can sell any firearm privately that fits the definition of a legal firearm to anyone without obtaining a permit or permission. Nothing illegal there. If the gun was obtained illegally, that is another issues and another violation of the law.
(2) Government has a right to ask "what are all the guns for Cowboy" Why and since when? And, I am not required to have permits to possess weapons. Only to purchase from FFL dealers and to carry concealed. None of these are reasonable questions and are not grounds for confiscation and/or destruction. Nor are any of these questions a ticket to prison.

Seems like the only issue is the sawing off of a shotgun beyond the legal limit. If that happened, than the issue is stupidity. If that situation arose with me, then I would add 5 bucks to the transaction and sell a hacksaw with the package.
 

he was a member of Aryan Nations, and you don't think he was a racist or an anti-Semite??

:lamo
 

Thank you for your explanation.

"avoid conflict" -- nice try.

He was an ignorant racist. IMO.

And, IMO, the world is better off without people who think that way and raise children to think that way.
 

He sold a sawed off shotgun to an ATF agent.

(2) Government has a right to ask "what are all the guns for Cowboy" Why and since when?
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Since always. Are you a 'collector' or a lunatic? What is the reason that you feel the need to acquire more guns than you have hands to shoot them with?

And, I am not required to have permits to possess weapons. Only to purchase from FFL dealers and to carry concealed.
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You just contradicted yourself. Unless you plan on purchasing a weapon and then leaving it at the store.

None of these are reasonable questions and are not grounds for confiscation and/or destruction. Nor are any of these questions a ticket to prison.
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They're all perfectly reasonable and the wrong answer will get you locked up. For instance: "No, I don't have a permit for that handgun in my glove box." Or "Yes, I have illegally modified this weapon." Or "I need all these guns to start a race war and bring down the government, it says so on my website."

Seems like the only issue is the sawing off of a shotgun beyond the legal limit. If that happened, than the issue is stupidity. If that situation arose with me, then I would add 5 bucks to the transaction and sell a hacksaw with the package.
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Because the spirit of the law is not as important as you finding a way to circumvent it... That kind of mentality makes me sick. You make money, and a stray round goes in kid's back, paralyzing him. Congrats.
 
Thunder said:
he was a member of Aryan Nations, and you don't think he was a racist or an anti-Semite??

:lamo
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He was not a member of the Aryan Nations. His and Vicki's beliefs contradicted theirs. They attended a couple meetings to find out what it was about.

If any of you doubters have the balls I challenge you to read the reports that are linked to in above posts, then come back to me for an educated discussion on the matter. The propaganda you have so easily been suckered into believing is wildly inaccurate.

Randy Weaver - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

All about Randy Weaver and Ruby Ridge, by David Lohr — Government Gone Wrong — Crime Library on truTV.com

Regardless of who actually sawed the barrels off, ATF Agent Herbert Byerly submitted a case report to the U.S. Attorney's office in Boise, Idaho, recommending that Randy be prosecuted for the sale of two illegal sawed-off shotguns. On June 12, 1990 Byerly and another agent, Steve Gunderson, approached Randy and offered him a deal. If he would agree to become an informant regarding illegal activities of Aryan Nations' members, the charges against him would be dropped. This would have been a difficult deal for most people to turn down since the sale of sawed-off shotguns is a violation of federal statutes and can result in stiff sentences and fines. Nonetheless, Randy felt he was being set up. He told the agents he had done nothing wrong and that he would not become a "snitch" for the government. Following the brief meeting, Randy called the Aryan Nation headquarters and notified them that the government was trying to infiltrate their organization.[/QUOTE]All about Randy Weaver and Ruby Ridge, by David Lohr — Illegal Dealings — Crime Library on truTV.com

The links I have provided in this post are almost accurate. For the most part stories, investigations etc... have been wiped from access. Fortunately I have hard copies of all my research material.
 

When the **** are you liberals going to understand that protecting the rights of people that we hate is just as important as protecting the rights of those we like?

Equal under the law menas just that, not because I dont like the way they think they deserve no rights---that way lies tyranny. Your posts are pervasive of that thinking.
 
taxigirl said:
So not dude. Magna cum laude for.my undergrad in journalism high Honor's with 3.94 Gpa for Masters.
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Bravo! :thumbs: I was just kidding, re: all the typos.
 
OpportunityCost said:
When the **** are you liberals going to understand that protecting the rights of people that we hate is just as important as protecting the rights of those we like?
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Attention: Straw Man, Straw Man, Straw Man....


We don't protect criminals or enable them to acquire weapons.

Equal under the law menas just that, not because I dont like the way they think they deserve no rights---that way lies tyranny. Your posts are pervasive of that thinking.
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Please show me specifically what I said that is "pervasive of that thinking."

You break the law. You go to jail.

You do something suspicious, police can stop and ask a question...

You post on Free Republic something that indicates you may be advocating or considering an overt act, then the FBI / ATF has the right to knock on your door and see how serious you are. If you're just a pimple faced fat kid in a basement, then no worries. But if you've got blueprints of a building on the wall of your basement... Then buh-bye, smart guy... And thanks for the free guns. We'll have fun destroying them. BTW - if you are willing to cooperate and tell us where you got all the guns, maybe you'll only do 10 years instead of 20...

And why do you want equal protection for gun owners and not homosexuals and/or muslims?
 

I agree. And I would feel exactly the same way if these were groups of anarchists, or communists, or whateverists. Whatever the beleif, if it's a sizeable group that employs apocolyptic anti-government rhetoric and considers itself to be a paramility organization, it's something the government needs to keep an eye on.
 
AdamT said:
Maybe you should look at the report instead of fixating on Taxigirl's page reference? If you do you will see that there's a subtitled section that describes in detail what the conflicting claims were about the initial encounter.
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You're weaseling again. I didn't ask you what the "conflicting claims" were. I asked you what the Weavers lied about. There's a wealth of documentation of government coverup and CYA for this incident, which SEVERELY damages their credibility -- or should for any critical observer. Where's the similar evidence re: the Weavers?

In other words, questioning the ATF's statements has a documented trail of reasons behind it. It is not so for the Weavers. Thus, as a question of who's more credible, the EVIDENCE lines up behind the Weavers.

Even if you find them weird and icky.
 

icky. that is one of my favorite words.:2dance:
 
How can the total separation of races where the "mixing" (miscegenation) of races is viewed as a negative not be racist? If the result of a mixed couple is inferior to that of "pure" racial couples, how is that not racist?
 

you're splitting hairs here.

you don't hang out with Aryan Nations assholes unless you hate blacks, Jews, and lots of other folks.
 

You're just throwing up another silly strawman. I never claimed that the Weavers were lying. Why do you keep suggesting that I did? What I said is that there is no definitive way to tell who's lying, and thus we have to judge based on other factors. You suggest that there's no reason to question the Weavers' credibility. The facts suggest that they are bizarre family living off in the woods and are severely paranoid about the U.S. government and have some disturbing ideas about race and separatism. They are perfectly entitled to have those views, but I think it's also perfectly reasonable to conclude that these unusual views make their judgment suspect.

OTOH, there is also reason to be skeptical of the ATF's actions and their account of events. Even in view of that, however, I find it unlikely that the ATF agents failed to identify themselves before opening fire. Doesn't mean it didn't happen that way, but I find it more likely than not that the kids of the paranoid couple living in the woods overreacted than it is likely that federal agents who are trained to indentify themselves and say, "throw down your weapons" completely ignored their training.
 

The rules of engagement were changed and other agents that were on the scene describe what happened as to be the same version as Weaver's. That is why Harris was acquitted. The agents were afraid because of bogus information that Weaver had a stockpile of weapons up there and he was crazy to bring down the government. The agents acted out of fear.

He wanted to live there with his family and read scripture that would affirm his and Vicki's beliefs. He was to be harm to anyone.

He went to a couple Aryan Nation meetings to see what it was about and never joined. The idea of SEPARATING the races is not that uncommon, the idea is that conflict will be avoided. They reject white supremacy.

Side note: there are Black Separatists as well who have the same ideas, so why is it bad that a white man has that idea?
 
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