Explosions in London

[robin]

Messerschmitt
Ever wondered why your country is so hated by some ?
Just go read the link. Learn about the slime & violent extremists in your CIA.
Do I have to spell it out for you. We were probably hit today becuase Blair rushed to your side after 911. 911 was a wicked act. I don't approve of violence towards innocent people which is why I despise your country's behaviour towards the innocent people of other countries, as detailed in the link. You were hit on 911 becuase of your anti arab pro jewish bias among other things. What has or had that to do with us ?
What did you do to help our fight against Irish bombs in London ?... Answer fund the IRA with your NORIAD charity.
Blair should have left you to fight your own battles.
good night

 

[Messerschmitt]

What does that have to do with the topic of Explosions in London? The reason we are hated is because religious extremists believe that they have to follow their religion and kill people like you and me (infidels) for no good reason.

BTW what is the hammer and gavel emblem represent?

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Messershmitt stick this in you're pipe you jingo oaf. take a look at this you ignoramous

Somehow, your "argument" fails to compel. Perhaps you're attempting to make a statement about the quality of your debating skills. If so then I'd say that the point you've made is quite clear.
If you'd like to do the dozens, I'd be happy to school you in the Basement.

WTF should we pick evil countries like yours as allies ?

It's unclear that a country can be either evil or good (in the moral sense). Certainly people can be one or the other and actions arguably could be considered either, but a country? I'm not sure that's sensical.

Blair sucking up to that barbary ape Bush

I'm pretty sure that Mr. Blair's sexual peccadilloes are a "family" matter for you folks on that side of the pond. I can't believe you'd like to talk about it in public. Have you no sense of decorum?

 

[robin]

Moon
Stop trying to be a third rate Oscar Wilde. Don't worry about my debating skills. That's a trivial matter.
worry about the facts instead...
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/US_Interventions_WBlumZ.html

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Moon Stop trying to be a third rate Oscar Wilde.

I'll take you advice to heart.

Don't worry about my debating skills. That's a trivial matter.

You said it. I didn't. But, I am inclined to agree.

worry about the facts instead...

No worries, mate. Facts take care of themselves.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

More food for thought

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8498288/

...the statement was published on an Islamic web site. Minutes later, it was removed from the web site itself because it contained an error in one of the Quaranic verses and al-Qaida doesn't usually do that, but the same statement was published (later) on a secular web site.
​

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

Every country has to fight terrorism.

Completely agree.

You can't reason with terrorists who hate you so much that he would kill himself to try to hurt you. The coalition must continue and intensify the war on terror so that we can stop the terrorists before they strike in your town.

The war on terror is spreading anti-American ideas. Between the displaced and the dead, our enemies have grown in numbers and strength and in resolve. They have "steadfast determination." That is something that can be broken, but it can't be broken with bombs or M16s.

This is war and there is no other possible way to combat this.

Who has tried another way to combat this?

 

[debate_junkie]

From 9/11 to Madrid, to Russia, and now to London, how much more will it take to see that we can not keep fighting this hatred with war?

1979, 52 Americans captured, held for 444 days.

April 1983: 17 dead at the U.S. embassy in Beirut.

October 1983: 241 dead at the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut.

December 1983: five dead at the U.S. embassy in Kuwait.

January 1984: the president of the American University of Beirut killed.

April 1984: 18 dead near a U.S. airbase in Spain.

September 1984: 16 dead at the U.S. embassy in Beirut (again).

December 1984: Two dead on a plane hijacked to Tehran.

June 1985: One dead on a plane hijacked to Beirut.

After a let-up, the attacks then restarted: Five and 19 dead in Saudi Arabia in 1995 and 1996, 224 dead at the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in August 1998 and 17 dead on the USS Cole in Yemen in October 2000.

(They left out the first WTC bombing in 1993)

These were all attacks on America BEFORE 9/11. Why now, suddenly, is anyone decrying terroristic attacs on America, or any other nations? Weren't these attacks of any importance? But more importantly, isn't it time we STOP these extremists from perpetrating such acts, when diplomacy over a 26 year span has OBVIOUSLY failed?

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

I understand that there were many attacks before 9/11. I decided to use that as a starting point because that's when everyone was forced to realize how serious this problem is.

Before 9/11, we weren't combating it at all. After 9/11 we decided that we had to kill terrorists. The problem is when you go to kill a terrorist, someone gets in the way. In this case, at leat 22,000 innocent people, and that numbers grows much higher if you count those displaced/homeless that die of exposure or starvation. I think it would be more effective to attack the causes of terrorism. Why does someone resort to such violence? Why or how does someone become embolden with such hatred that they themselves are willing to blow themselves up in an effort to take out civilians and or military personnel? Hatred can be broken and broken permanently, but it cannot be done with more hatred. When you resort to violence you merely temporarily suppress the anger and hatred.

 

[debate_junkie]

I understand that there were many attacks before 9/11. I decided to use that as a starting point because that's when everyone was forced to realize how serious this problem is.

And that is one of the problems right there.. many didn't want to believe it existed because it didn't happen on American soil.

Before 9/11, we weren't combating it at all.

We were publicly condemning the acts, and seeking out those responsible.

After 9/11 we decided that we had to kill terrorists.

After 9/11 it was decided that these men and women could no longer set off their bombs without resistance to it. They would no longer be allowed to kill innocent lives because they have a "point" to prove

The problem is when you go to kill a terrorist, someone gets in the way. In this case, at leat 22,000 innocent people, and that numbers grows much higher if you count those displaced/homeless that die of exposure or starvation.

Ahh, but the 22,000 people in the way of a terrorists bombs... that's ok as long as it isn't the US killing them. Hmmm, flawed, very flawed.

I think it would be more effective to attack the causes of terrorism. Why does someone resort to such violence?

Because fear ensures they will be able to operate without any reprecussions, especially amongst the peoples the terrorists perpetrate these crimes.

Why or how does someone become embolden with such hatred that they themselves are willing to blow themselves up in an effort to take out civilians and or military personnel?

I don't know. Why, in 1979, did the Ayatollah steal the power of Iranian leadership for his own on the platform of "Death to America" and only a short time later was the United states Embassy stormed and 52 hostages were held for 444 days?

Hatred can be broken and broken permanently, but it cannot be done with more hatred. When you resort to violence you merely temporarily suppress the anger and hatred.

Hatred hasn't been broken with words. Public and worldwide condemnation of these thugs and their actions hasn't worked. What do you suggest? Sending teams of therapists to Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, et al, and have them counsel terrorists until they decide not to use violence anymore? Should we build a bonfire in the desert, sing Kumbayah and toast smores?

I am interested in your answers, because in your previous posts, you cry something else should be done, yet you give NO counters to what is presently the course of action to deal with these monsters.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

We were publicly condemning the acts, and seeking out those responsible.

How'd that work out?

Ahh, but the 22,000 people in the way of a terrorists bombs... that's ok as long as it isn't the US killing them. Hmmm, flawed, very flawed.

If I had said something along those lines, that would be very flawed. However, I did not. You did.

Because fear ensures they will be able to operate without any reprecussions, especially amongst the peoples the terrorists perpetrate these crimes.

I believe that the men that resort to these things truly believe that they are in the right. They see themselves as the revolutionaries. They see themselves as the moral crusaders. Unless you investigate as to why that is, there is no point in furthering this discussion. I believe that many men in the leadership are simly power hungry, but these are few and far between. There are very few men that when faced with a decision choose evil.

Hatred hasn't been broken with words. Public and worldwide condemnation of these thugs and their actions hasn't worked. What do you suggest? Sending teams of therapists to Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, et al, and have them counsel terrorists until they decide not to use violence anymore? Should we build a bonfire in the desert, sing Kumbayah and toast smores?

I didn't suggest that hatred could be broken with words, however, I do believe words will prove more successful if applied properly. You must ask why. When you find the why, you can solve the problem. As is: We have no defined enemy. They could be anyone for any reason.

I am interested in your answers, because in your previous posts, you cry something else should be done, yet you give NO counters to what is presently the course of action to deal with these monsters.

I have given counters, though I must admit not lately. It's complicated as far, but we'll do this together, ehh? Define the problem for me. What is the problem? Who is our enemy? Why are they our enemy?

These are the questions that will yeild the answers required to solvd this terrorist problem.

If they believe they are revolutionaries, what circumstances and actions have lead to their need for a revolution? Are they starving? Feed them. Are they homeless? Shelter them.