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Exodus 21, it's translations, interpretations and defense of interpretations.

What I know is that humans did not believe slavery to be immoral for the vast majority of our history. And you would have been easy pickins in the Bronze Age.

Slaves most definitely did. Hence all the running away or engaging in violent revolts for their freedom.
 
What I know is that humans did not believe slavery to be immoral for the vast majority of our history. And you would have been easy pickins in the Bronze Age.
Trust me if slaves revolt, or run away or sabotage their masters, steal from their owners, bing a stave was not considered acceptable to some one. even during the Bronze Age.
 
Just out of curiousity - why is it so important a chapter for living in a society today?
Well, that is I wanted to know also.
A lot of those rules were made in accordance to the culture of the time (of that particular society).
I don't think today's Jews have slaves, or are themselves, slaves.
You are right they are all rules for slaves. I think the UN statement of human rights condemns and bans slavery, so why so much attention from the anti-abortion movement? Why the misinterpretations of Exodus 21:22-25

22. 'If people, when brawling, hurt a pregnant woman and she suffers a miscarriage but no further harm is done, the person responsible will pay compensation as fixed by the woman's master, paying as much as the judges decide.
23. If further harm is done, however, you will award life for life,
24. eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
25. burn for burn, wound for wound, stroke for stroke.


to mean that "life for a life" proves the the Bible says that the fetus is a person with legal rights.
 
Well, that is I wanted to know also.

You are right they are all rules for slaves. I think the UN statement of human rights condemns and bans slavery,

The UN is not an "authority" on Christian belief.
It changes with the times - and, it's not even consistent with its own application or observance.
Yes it bans slavery, but it also said to have banned human rights abuses too! So, there you go.

History had shown that human abusers had changed the status of people they abuse!
Like the nazis think Jews were sub-human, and slavers think blacks were subhuman too!
One day you think you're a human being deserving of the same rights. Lol - the next day, you're stripped of it just because of a group of mouthy powerful lobby group!!!
The UN has become a farce!

It used to have given the Unborn the same right that's given to any child.
But that's now been changed.





so why so much attention from the anti-abortion movement? Why the misinterpretations of Exodus 21:22-25

22. 'If people, when brawling, hurt a pregnant woman and she suffers a miscarriage but no further harm is done, the person responsible will pay compensation as fixed by the woman's master, paying as much as the judges decide.


to mean that "life for a life" proves the the Bible says that the fetus is a person with legal rights.

That is twistedly misinterpreted by pro-choice people.

The key words to that verse is ..................................................................................................PREGNANT and MISCARRIAGE.

The emphasis is on the condition that the woman is in - PREGNANT! Which means, she's carrying an unborn life in her!
A miscarriage means the loss of that pregnancy!



23. If further harm is done, however, you will award life for life,
24. eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
25. burn for burn, wound for wound, stroke for stroke.

Whose life is being referred to in that statement? The life of either the UNBORN, or the mother. Or, both.
 
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Well, that is I wanted to know also.

You are right they are all rules for slaves. I think the UN statement of human rights condemns and bans slavery, so why so much attention from the anti-abortion movement? Why the misinterpretations of Exodus 21:22-25

22. 'If people, when brawling, hurt a pregnant woman and she suffers a miscarriage but no further harm is done, the person responsible will pay compensation as fixed by the woman's master, paying as much as the judges decide.
23. If further harm is done, however, you will award life for life,
24. eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
25. burn for burn, wound for wound, stroke for stroke.


to mean that "life for a life" proves the the Bible says that the fetus is a person with legal rights.

Furthermore.....


In those days, a pregnancy is a blessing!
A fetus is valued since it is child that would be born.


1. Behold, children are a heritage from the LORD, the fruit of the womb a reward. Like arrows in the hand of a warrior are the children of one’s youth.
Blessed is the man who fills his quiver with them! He shall not be put to shame when he speaks with his enemies in the gate.
(Psalm 127:3-5).


And when Esau lifted up his eyes and saw the women and children, he said, “Who are these with you?” Jacob said, “The children whom God has graciously given your servant.” Genesis 33:5


Your wife will be like a fruitful vine within your house; your children will be like olive shoots around your table. Psalm 128:3
 
Furthermore.....


In those days, a pregnancy is a blessing!
A fetus is valued since it is child that would be born.


1. Behold, children are a heritage from the LORD, the fruit of the womb a reward. Like arrows in the hand of a warrior are the children of one’s youth.
Blessed is the man who fills his quiver with them! He shall not be put to shame when he speaks with his enemies in the gate.
(Psalm 127:3-5).


And when Esau lifted up his eyes and saw the women and children, he said, “Who are these with you?” Jacob said, “The children whom God has graciously given your servant.” Genesis 33:5


Your wife will be like a fruitful vine within your house; your children will be like olive shoots around your table. Psalm 128:3

Unless your wife cheated on you. Then the Bible lays out how to force her to get an abortion.
 
Whose life is being referred to in that statement? The life of either the UNBORN, or the mother. Or, both.
Exodus 21
23. If further harm is done, however, you will award life for life,
24. eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
25. burn for burn, wound for wound, stroke for stroke.

Hmmm, how will you award a tooth for a tooth if the fetus has been harmed?
 
Exodus 21
23. If further harm is done, however, you will award life for life,
24. eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
25. burn for burn, wound for wound, stroke for stroke.

Hmmm, how will you award a tooth for a tooth if the fetus has been harmed?
Life for life...whoever caused the injury/death of the unborn would pay back with his life...
 
Life for life...whoever caused the injury/death of the unborn would pay back with his life...

Unless the woman in question cheated on her husband. Then the priest would induce an abortion, the unborn would die, and no one would pay back their life.
 
Unless the woman in question cheated on her husband. Then the priest would induce an abortion, the unborn would die, and no one would pay back their life.
No mention of a pregnancy in that account...it was all about adultery...
 
Life for life...whoever caused the injury/death of the unborn would pay back with his life...
Look very carefully at the verses.

22. 'If people, when brawling, hurt a pregnant woman and she suffers a miscarriage but no further harm is done, the person responsible will pay compensation as fixed by the woman's master, paying as much as the judges decide.

There is a period at the end of verse 22. It indicates that in the matter of a pregnant woman whose fetus has been injured has been fully addressed; responsible party named, compensation described and fine levied by the judge.

23. If further harm is done, however, you will award life for life,
24. eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
25. burn for burn, wound for wound, stroke for stroke.

These next three verses are all one sentence describing further damage to someone. Who? The awarding of punishment tells you who. The person that killed or blinded or bashed in teeth, broke or cut off a hand or foot, burned, wounded or beat someone will be punished with the same injury or death. One of the fighters would be the most likely person doing any of those things .............. not the fetus, not a woman bystander watching the fight ........................... unless ........ the woman is participating in the fight and is killed or injured or she is killing or injuring someone else.
 
Look very carefully at the verses.

22. 'If people, when brawling, hurt a pregnant woman and she suffers a miscarriage but no further harm is done, the person responsible will pay compensation as fixed by the woman's master, paying as much as the judges decide.

There is a period at the end of verse 22. It indicates that in the matter of a pregnant woman whose fetus has been injured has been fully addressed; responsible party named, compensation described and fine levied by the judge.

23. If further harm is done, however, you will award life for life,
24. eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
25. burn for burn, wound for wound, stroke for stroke.

These next three verses are all one sentence describing further damage to someone. Who? The awarding of punishment tells you who. The person that killed or blinded or bashed in teeth, broke or cut off a hand or foot, burned, wounded or beat someone will be punished with the same injury or death. One of the fighters would be the most likely person doing any of those things .............. not the fetus, not a woman bystander watching the fight ........................... unless ........ the woman is participating in the fight and is killed or injured or she is killing or injuring someone else.
Yes, please do...



New International Version
“If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows.

New Living Translation
“Now suppose two men are fighting, and in the process they accidentally strike a pregnant woman so she gives birth prematurely. If no further injury results, the man who struck the woman must pay the amount of compensation the woman’s husband demands and the judges approve.

New King James Version
“If men fight, and hurt a woman with child, so that she gives birth prematurely, yet no harm follows, he shall surely be punished accordingly as the woman’s husband imposes on him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.

New American Standard Bible
“Now if people struggle with each other and strike a pregnant woman so that she gives birth prematurely, but there is no injury, the guilty person shall certainly be fined as the woman’s husband may demand of him, and he shall pay as the judges decide.
https://biblehub.com/exodus/21-22.htm
 
Yes, please do...



New International Version
“If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows.

New Living Translation
“Now suppose two men are fighting, and in the process they accidentally strike a pregnant woman so she gives birth prematurely. If no further injury results, the man who struck the woman must pay the amount of compensation the woman’s husband demands and the judges approve.

New King James Version
“If men fight, and hurt a woman with child, so that she gives birth prematurely, yet no harm follows, he shall surely be punished accordingly as the woman’s husband imposes on him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.

New American Standard Bible
“Now if people struggle with each other and strike a pregnant woman so that she gives birth prematurely, but there is no injury, the guilty person shall certainly be fined as the woman’s husband may demand of him, and he shall pay as the judges decide.
https://biblehub.com/exodus/21-22.htm
OK, notice the period at the end of all of those translations of Exodus 21:22? The matter is resolved. The further injuries discussed in verses 23,24,25 are injuries to the brawlers but could include the pregnant woman in the list of brawlers either giving or getting "injuries"
 
Why lie about something so easily fact checked?


“May this water(O) that brings a curse(P) enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”
That was her punishment...to be rendered unfertile...
Why do you lie?

New Living Translation
Now may this water that brings the curse enter your body and cause your abdomen to swell and your womb to shrivel.’ And the woman will be required to say, ‘Yes, let it be so.’

English Standard Version
May this water that brings the curse pass into your bowels and make your womb swell and your thigh fall away.’ And the woman shall say, ‘Amen, Amen.’

Berean Study Bible
May this water that brings a curse enter your stomach and cause your belly to swell and your thigh to shrivel.’ Then the woman is to say, ‘Amen, Amen.’

King James Bible
And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen.

New King James Version
and may this water that causes the curse go into your stomach, and make your belly swell and your thigh rot.” ‘Then the woman shall say, “Amen, so be it.”

New American Standard Bible
and this water that brings a curse shall go into your stomach, to make your belly swell up and your thigh shrivel.” And the woman shall say, “Amen, Amen.”

NASB 1995
and this water that brings a curse shall go into your stomach, and make your abdomen swell and your thigh waste away.” And the woman shall say, “Amen. Amen.”

NASB 1977
and this water that brings a curse shall go into your stomach, and make your abdomen swell and your thigh waste away.” And the woman shall say, “Amen. Amen.”

Amplified Bible
and this water that brings a curse shall go into your stomach, and make your abdomen swell and your thigh waste away.” And the woman shall say, “Amen. Amen (so let it be).”

Christian Standard Bible
May this water that brings a curse enter your stomach, causing your belly to swell and your womb to shrivel.’ “And the woman will reply, ‘Amen, Amen.’

Holman Christian Standard Bible
May this water that brings a curse enter your stomach, causing your belly to swell and your thigh to shrivel.’” And the woman must reply, ‘Amen, Amen.’”
https://biblehub.com/numbers/5-22.htm
 
This law about jealousy is recorded at Numbers 5:12-31. If a man suspected his wife of unfaithfulness he was to bring her to the priest. The priest made her stand before Jehovah, took some holy water or pure, fresh water, sprinkled into it some dust from the tabernacle floor, and washed or wiped into it the cursings he had written down. What these cursings were is shown in Nu 5 verses 19-22 (NW): “Then the priest must make her swear and he must say to the woman, ‘If no man has cohabited with you and if while under your husband you have not turned aside in any uncleanness, be free of the effect of this bitter water that brings a curse. But you, in case you have turned aside while under your husband and in case you have defiled yourself and some man has put in you his seminal emission, besides your husband,—’ The priest must now make the woman swear with an oath involving cursing, and the priest must say to the woman: ‘May Jehovah set you for a cursing and an oath in the midst of your people by Jehovah’s letting your thigh fall away, and your belly swell. And this water that brings a curse must enter into your bowels to cause your belly to swell and the thigh to fall away.’ To this the woman must say, ‘So be it! So be it!’” The woman drank the water and if guilty her thigh fell away and her belly swelled, but if she was innocent she was unharmed by the water: “She must be free from such punishment and she must be made pregnant with semen.”—Nu 5 Vs. 28, NW.

Just what is meant by the swelling of the belly and the falling away of the thigh is not certain. It is quite evident, however, that thigh as here used is a euphemism or a delicate way of referring to the sexual organs, as is the case at Genesis 46:26, NW. It is logical that if any bodily parts be afflicted it should be the ones committing the wrong, as is the case when Jesus figuratively spoke of ridding yourself of a body member that hindered your entry into the Kingdom. (Mark 9:43-47) The expression “fall away” is understood to mean “waste away” (CB), “shrink” (Da) or “shrivel” (Mo), and hence would suggest that the sex organs atrophied and that there was a loss of fertility and ability to conceive. This view harmonizes with the statement that if the woman was innocent she was to be made pregnant, implying that if she was guilty any future pregnancy would be denied her. Her belly would swell because of the curse, but not due to the blessing of pregnancy.

There was actually nothing in the water that was drunk to bring on such affliction and no innocent woman would be harmed by it, but it was holy water and had in it holy ground or dust and the writing of the cursings washed off in it, and hence it contained potent symbolisms, and it was drunk before Jehovah and with a solemn oath to him. He was involved and acted as judge, and he knew whether the woman was innocent or guilty, and if she was guilty he would cause the drink to have miraculous potency to produce the deserved result. So there was not this power in the drink by itself, and this factor eliminates it as any trial by ordeal as practiced during the Dark Ages. Those torturous trials were not prescribed by the Bible and they had power in themselves to injure seriously or kill. Whereas the law about jealousy required a miracle to bring about the punishment, the trials by ordeal during the Dark Ages required a miracle to deliver from punishment. In effect, you were guilty till proved innocent.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/pc/r1/lp-e/1200026366/823/0
 
That was her punishment...to be rendered unfertile...
Why do you lie?

New Living Translation
Now may this water that brings the curse enter your body and cause your abdomen to swell and your womb to shrivel.’ And the woman will be required to say, ‘Yes, let it be so.’

English Standard Version
May this water that brings the curse pass into your bowels and make your womb swell and your thigh fall away.’ And the woman shall say, ‘Amen, Amen.’

Berean Study Bible
May this water that brings a curse enter your stomach and cause your belly to swell and your thigh to shrivel.’ Then the woman is to say, ‘Amen, Amen.’

King James Bible
And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen.

New King James Version
and may this water that causes the curse go into your stomach, and make your belly swell and your thigh rot.” ‘Then the woman shall say, “Amen, so be it.”

New American Standard Bible
and this water that brings a curse shall go into your stomach, to make your belly swell up and your thigh shrivel.” And the woman shall say, “Amen, Amen.”

NASB 1995
and this water that brings a curse shall go into your stomach, and make your abdomen swell and your thigh waste away.” And the woman shall say, “Amen. Amen.”

NASB 1977
and this water that brings a curse shall go into your stomach, and make your abdomen swell and your thigh waste away.” And the woman shall say, “Amen. Amen.”

Amplified Bible
and this water that brings a curse shall go into your stomach, and make your abdomen swell and your thigh waste away.” And the woman shall say, “Amen. Amen (so let it be).”

Christian Standard Bible
May this water that brings a curse enter your stomach, causing your belly to swell and your womb to shrivel.’ “And the woman will reply, ‘Amen, Amen.’

Holman Christian Standard Bible
May this water that brings a curse enter your stomach, causing your belly to swell and your thigh to shrivel.’” And the woman must reply, ‘Amen, Amen.’”
https://biblehub.com/numbers/5-22.htm

So you admit you were lying when you claimed the passage has nothing to do with pregnancy?
 
So you admit you were lying when you claimed the passage has nothing to do with pregnancy?
It doesn't...it has to do with jealousy and adultery...
 
It doesn't...it has to do with jealousy and adultery...

And if she is an adulterer it will cause her womb to what? Is it miscarry?

Can you miscarry when you aren’t pregnant?
 
And if she is an adulterer it will cause her womb to what? Is it miscarry?

Can you miscarry when you aren’t pregnant?
Um no...that is what your inaccurate NIV translation says...
 
Ah, sorry. I forgot only your cult's translation is correct.
Wrong again...i gave you several translations...guess you don't know how to read...or maybe comprehension is your bigger problem...
 
Wrong again...i gave you several translations...guess you don't know how to read...or maybe comprehension is your bigger problem...

What makes those translations correct but not the NIV?
 
What makes those translations correct but not the NIV?
NIV is the only one that says "or your womb miscarries,"...inferring the woman is pg...other translations never mention a pregnancy, and the NIV translation of the terms “miscarry” or “miscarries” is unfounded...the punishment for any adultery that took place is directed at the woman...if she was guilty of adultery, she would be rendered unfertile...if she was found innocent, she would be able to bear children in the future...
 
NIV is the only one that says "or your womb miscarries,"...inferring the woman is pg...other translations never mention a pregnancy, and the NIV translation of the terms “miscarry” or “miscarries” is unfounded...the punishment for any adultery that took place is directed at the woman...if she was guilty of adultery, she would be rendered unfertile...if she was found innocent, she would be able to bear children in the future...

And your cult's Bible is the only one that rejects the Trinity. That means it must be wrong, right?
 
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