Exodus 21, it's translations, interpretations and defense of interpretations.

[weaver2]

Exodus 21 is an important chapter. It sets up rules for many aspects of living in a society, but it has generated more than it's share of differing translations, discussion, controversy and disagreement especially verses 22 - 25. Why so many different translations, what translation do you favor and why?

My choice of translations is The New Jerusalem Bible (NJB)

 

[Questerr]

Why so many different translations?

Because Christians have a problem with worshipping a god that says slavery is cool and moral. So they create apologetics by trying to play word games.

It’s worth noting Christians had no problem with the translations until societies started abolition. Then when it was clear their society was more moral than the god of their holy book, they had to start the apologetics.

 

[tosca1]

Exodus 21 is an important chapter. It sets up rules for many aspects of living in a society, but it has generated more than it's share of differing translations, discussion, controversy and disagreement especially verses 22 - 25. Why so many different translations, what translation do you favor and why?

My choice of translations is The New Jerusalem Bible (NJB)

Just out of curiousity - why is it so important a chapter for living in a society today?

A lot of those rules were made in accordance to the culture of the time (of that particular society).
I don't think today's Jews have slaves, or are themselves, slaves.

All the ordinances that are relevant today would've been taken from the 10 Commandments that was given to Moses.
And as Jesus had stated, everything sums up to Love of God and love of neighbor.

 

[Questerr]

Just out of curiousity - why is it so important a chapter for living in a society today?

A lot of those rules were made in accordance to the culture of the time (of that particular society).
I don't think today's Jews have slaves, or are themselves, slaves.

All the ordinances that are relevant today would've been taken from the 10 Commandments that was given to Moses.
And as Jesus had stated, everything sums up to Love of God and love of neighbor.

So the rules were made by men (meaning the book they were found in was written by men and this is the word of men) and not created by a perfectly moral deity?

Why was your god able to tell people not to eat shellfish but was too weak to tell them not to own other humans as property?

 

[Exquisitor]

So the rules were made by men (meaning the book they were found in was written by men and this is the word of men) and not created by a perfectly moral deity?

Why was your god able to tell people not to eat shellfish but was too weak to tell them not to own other humans as property?

Good place for a revisionist incursion, go back and make Israel free of slaves and they never get captured by Babylon and Christ comes and has a party.

No Roman Empire, no Attila, the Vikings will all get saved.

Why don't we make them vegetarian too, than we can avoid the world wars.

 

[weaver2]

Just out of curiousity - why is it so important a chapter for living in a society today?

I don't know why it has taken on the importance has. That's why I posed the topic.

A lot of those rules were made in accordance to the culture of the time (of that particular society).
I don't think today's Jews have slaves, or are themselves, slaves.

You may be right. Neither my BIL or SIL seem to have slaves. Although, there have been occasional complaints from their kids.

 

[Questerr]

I don't know why it has taken on the importance has. That's why I posed the topic.

You may be right. Neither my BIL or SIL seem to have slaves.

Which might have something to do with the Jewish holy books including more than just the Christian Old Testament and the teachings about slavery in their later texts.

Jews also don’t take the interpretation that the Torah is the perfect word of god, free of any biases or wrong teachings from the men who wrote them.

 

[EdwinWillers]

Why so many different translations?

Because Christians have a problem with worshipping a god that says slavery is cool and moral. So they create apologetics by trying to play word games.

It’s worth noting Christians had no problem with the translations until societies started abolition. Then when it was clear their society was more moral than the god of their holy book, they had to start the apologetics.

Well, speaking of word games - where does God say "slavery is cool and moral?"

 

[Napoleon]

Why so many different translations?

Because languages change over time and interpretation is often required when translating from one language to another which doesn’t have equivalent words.

 

[Schism]

Exodus 21 is an important chapter. It sets up rules for many aspects of living in a society, but it has generated more than it's share of differing translations, discussion, controversy and disagreement especially verses 22 - 25. Why so many different translations, what translation do you favor and why?

My choice of translations is The New Jerusalem Bible (NJB)

Just my opinion, but...

The entirety of the Law was to demonstrate to man that we are incapable of upholding it. The penalty for breaking the Law (any law no matter how seemingly insignificant) is death, and therefore mankind needs a Savior.

 

[EdwinWillers]

Why so many different translations?

Because Christians have a problem with worshipping a god that says slavery is cool and moral. So they create apologetics by trying to play word games.

It’s worth noting Christians had no problem with the translations until societies started abolition. Then when it was clear their society was more moral than the god of their holy book, they had to start the apologetics.

Well, speaking of word games - where does God say "slavery is cool and moral?"

 

[EdwinWillers]

Just my opinion, but...

The entirety of the Law was to demonstrate to man that we are incapable of upholding it. The penalty for breaking the Law (any law no matter how seemingly insignificant) is death, and therefore mankind needs a Savior.

Bingo! 👍

 

[Questerr]

Well, speaking of word games - where does God say "slavery is cool and moral?"

When he gives explicit permission for people to own other humans as property.

Or does the god of the Bible encourage people to do immoral things?

 

[Questerr]

Apparently you have the attention span of a cricket. Can’t wait 20 minutes for a response?

 

[Napoleon]

When he gives explicit permission for people to own other humans as property.

Or does the god of the Bible encourage people to do immoral things?

Immoral by the contemporary, i.e. Bronze Age, standards? No.

 

[Questerr]

Immoral by the contemporary, i.e. Bronze Age, standards? No.

So God’s standards aren’t eternal? He’s a moral relativist?

 

[Napoleon]

So God’s standards aren’t eternal? He’s a moral relativist?

Such deities make their own rules in every mythology. That is their prerogative.

 

[EdwinWillers]

When he gives explicit permission for people to own other humans as property.

....aaaand where does He do that?

 

[Questerr]

Such deities make their own rules.

So the deity is unjust and arbitrary? Then it’s unworthy of worship.

 

[Napoleon]

So the deity is unjust and arbitrary? Then it’s unworthy of worship.

The deities decide who hast to follow what rules to remain in their good graces. There’s nothing unique about that in Judaism or Christianity.

 

[Questerr]

....aaaand where does He do that?

Leviticus 25:44

"`Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.”

The god of the Bible thinks it’s okay (and therefore moral) for people to own slaves.

 

[Questerr]

The deities decide who hast to follow what rules to remain in their good graces. There’s nothing unique about that in Judaism or Christianity.

And such a practice would be arbitrary and unjust, thus making the deity unworthy of worship.

 

[Napoleon]

And such a practice would be arbitrary and unjust, thus making the deity unworthy of worship.

What is or is not just is decided by the deity. I suppose your later comment would depend on how much you value existence.

 

[Questerr]

What is or is not just is decided by the deity. I suppose your later comment would depend on how much you value existence.

No, humans are perfectly capable of determining if things are just.

I value my kneecaps quite a lot. If the mafia don says he is just for demanding protection money or me, do that make him just if I value my kneecaps enough o pay him?

 

[Elora]

Just my opinion, but...

The entirety of the Law was to demonstrate to man that we are incapable of upholding it. The penalty for breaking the Law (any law no matter how seemingly insignificant) is death, and therefore mankind needs a Savior.

Exactly...Paul said it best...

But the real purpose of the Law was, as stated by the apostle Paul, “to make transgressions manifest, until the seed should arrive.” It was a “tutor leading to Christ.” It pointed to Christ as the objective aimed at (“Christ is the end of the Law”). It revealed that all humans, including the Jews, are under sin and that life cannot be obtained by “works of law.” (Ga 3:19-24; Ro 3:20; 10:4) It was “spiritual,” from God, and “holy.” (Ro 7:12, 14) At Ephesians 2:15 it is called “the Law of commandments consisting in decrees.” It was a standard of perfection, marking the one who could keep it as perfect, worthy of life. (Le 18:5; Ga 3:12) Since imperfect humans could not keep the Law, it showed that “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” (Ro 3:23) Only Jesus Christ kept it blamelessly.—Joh 8:46; Heb 7:26.

The Law also served as “a shadow of the good things to come,” and things connected with it were “typical representations,” causing Jesus and the apostles to call upon it often to explain heavenly things and matters concerning Christian doctrine and conduct. Therefore, it provides an essential and necessary field of study for the Christian.—Heb 10:1; 9:23.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200002694